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Re: Do You Believe in an Extra-Terrestrial Presence? [Re: Moonshoe]
    #8136542 -

Quote:
Personally I dont understand the fascination with alien visitors to earth.



It's interesting to see how differently people approach the subject. How is this particular fascination seperate than the passion that an astronomer has for the stars, or an egyptologists fascination with the pyramids? The very people that have revealed to us the distinct possibility of the big bang, the universes age, who uncovered the microworld, etc... All these people have a fascination with exploration and unveiling what's really going on beyond our natural senses. What's not to understand?


Quote:

Its interesting, sure. To me not as interesting as earthly biology or human psychology, at least until they stop hiding and come make some direct contact with me or mine.


Now, if the ET presence was fact, wouldn't you want to know as much about them as earthly biology and human psychology?

I mean, if they are doing interstellar travel and are clearly at a level of evolution that greatly exceeds ours, wouldn't you want to know everything you could about them? That could say so much about our reality beyond just the nonsense on Earth. What goes on in this planet is not representative of the universes true power. I know I sound like a fanatic when I say that, but so what? My thoughts are not central to me.

Quote:
Lets say that aliens are flying around over my head right now. What matters it? how does this empower me to live my life? how does it change my needs or desires? How does it alter my goals and dreams?


This is one of the things that most people really don't apply. All the UFO nuts that I have come to know always agree on the same thing; It is the greatest story during this time for humanity. Thousands of years summing up to this point in the understanding of ourselves and the universe. So, when did we get up into space? And the apollo missions... and astronauts are trying to express this new discovery. People don't seem hungry for the truth, but I find it strange how poster in the P+S (clearly thought provoking individuals looking for truth), seem to scoff the entire paradigm off due to a lack of hard evidence. It's not like there is no evidence, but because there is not an "alien zoo" people don't give their attention to the great possibility.

I couldn't tell you how it matters, though. I could go on for days about it. This is indeed an individual awakening.


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Flowing through beginningless time since time without beginning...

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Re: Do You Believe in an Extra-Terrestrial Presence? [Re: Ginseng1]
    #8136599 -

Quote:
It's not like there is no evidence


That's the problem, those who already believe continue to claim that they have evidence, yet this evidence is NOT convincing to the "unconverted." We have evidence that the stars exist, and we can study them. We have evidence that the pyramids exist, and we can study them. We can theorize about the Big Bang based upon science, not fantasies. It simply does not make sense to equate these fascinations with a belief in alien visitors.

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Re: Do You Believe in an Extra-Terrestrial Presence? [Re: Humble lurker]
    #8136652 -

Quote:
They would of both had to of created the fantasy that it was aliens together.


'would of'? 'had to of'?

Please tell me English is not your primary language.


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Re: Do You Believe in an Extra-Terrestrial Presence? [Re: Ginseng1]
    #8136667 -

Ginseng1 said:
[Now, if the ET presence was fact, wouldn't you want to know as much about them as earthly biology and human psychology?

I mean, if they are doing interstellar travel and are clearly at a level of evolution that greatly exceeds ours, wouldn't you want to know everything you could about them? That could say so much about our reality beyond just the nonsense on Earth. What goes on in this planet is not representative of the universes true power. I know I sound like a fanatic when I say that, but so what? My thoughts are not central to me.



It seems like your interest in aliens stems from a belief that they will somehow "free" humanity from its own nature, and that contact with and an understanding of aliens would somehow move humans forward in terms of evolution and allow us to be more perfect and less human.


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:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil 
- Thomas Paine

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Re: Do You Believe in an Extra-Terrestrial Presence? [Re: Veritas]
    #8136705 -

Veritas said:
Quote:
It's not like there is no evidence


That's the problem, those who already believe continue to claim that they have evidence, yet this evidence is NOT convincing to the "unconverted." We have evidence that the stars exist, and we can study them. We have evidence that the pyramids exist, and we can study them. We can theorize about the Big Bang based upon science, not fantasies. It simply does not make sense to equate these fascinations with a belief in alien visitors.


Tricky indeed.

What I have come to understand is that we clearly are not in a position to study them as a non-intelligent tangible item. If they are a higher evolved species, whos technologies are beyond our comprehension, then what parameters do we truly have to study them? We can't study video footage or photographs of UFOs/ETs even though they exist. We can't study a military pilots memories of the UFOs he's seen. We can't study people memories on their abductions. We can't study blips on a radar that are unaccounted for. So we really do not have much to study... besides ofcourse a few alien bodies that some people in high up places have claimed to have seen/studied over and over again. "We" can't study them. Those that are in the position to have done so, have. How about ET implants? There are numerous.

Guaranteed that the hard evidence does exist but is kept from the masses. Is it naive to think this? I don't think so. The whole subject is really a liability issue in the end.


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Flowing through beginningless time since time without beginning...

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Re: Do You Believe in an Extra-Terrestrial Presence? [Re: gluke bastid]
    #8136720 -

Quote:
It seems like your interest in aliens stems from a belief that they will somehow "free" humanity from its own nature, and that contact with and an understanding of aliens would somehow move humans forward in terms of evolution and allow us to be more perfect and less human.


You're pretty much correct.

But.. who wrote the book on "humans"? Humans can change, there is no "rule" as to our nature beyond our physical needs. We can be conditioned to be anything.

So it doesn't make sense to say more perfect and less human.

I am much different than many of the posters here, does that make me less or more human than them? Neither. Humans can only be defined by their physical charactersics, biological processes and the ensuing emotions. Emotions can gear to serve any kind of purpose.

I am not satisfied with current world affaris and I refuse to believe that this is our "nature". It sure as hell ain't mine.


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Flowing through beginningless time since time without beginning...

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Re: Do You Believe in an Extra-Terrestrial Presence? [Re: Ginseng1]
    #8136722 -

Quote:
Guaranteed that the hard evidence does exist but is kept from the masses.


:lol: Our government can't even manage to cover up the President getting a blow job in the Oval Office, yet they successfully conceal hard evidence of worldwide, unscheduled, unpredictable multiple visits from aliens?  This is truly an impossibility.  Nice conspiracy theory, though.

But, then, I only think this way because the MIB have "flashy-thinged" me too many times.  :wink:

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Re: Do You Believe in an Extra-Terrestrial Presence? [Re: Veritas]
    #8136747 -

To say theres no evidence is to deny the mass of human testimony.

We rely on credible and corroborating witnesses to prosecute people in a court of law yet some people completely disregard human testimony if it doesn't fit their existing beliefs.

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Re: Do You Believe in an Extra-Terrestrial Presence? [Re: Veritas]
    #8136778 -

Veritas said:
Quote:
Guaranteed that the hard evidence does exist but is kept from the masses.


:lol: Our government can't even manage to cover up the President getting a blow job in the Oval Office, yet they successfully conceal hard evidence of worldwide, unscheduled, unpredictable multiple visits from aliens?  This is truly an impossibility.  Nice conspiracy theory, though.


This is EXACTLY why the disclosure project exists and millions of people are talking about it.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Disclosure_Project  (check out the list of some wtinesses).

How do you expect hard evidence to surface in the masses "hands"?  Seriously?  Alien implants are not clearly not substantial enough.  The only thing being kept is the hard evidence, as in biological specimens and spacecraft materials.  There are millions of people who are aware of this.  They have not been able to keep any secret, just the hard evidence, because it is easy to.

LOL what makes you think for one minute that Bill Clinton actualy let some woman suck him off in the oval office?  How the fuck would hard evidence surface for a cum stain on a presidential blazer?  Please... THAT is hard to believe.  It's a nice conspiracy though.  Notice how the event did not destroy Bill and Hillary's marriage in the end?  Thats right, because it never happened.  The US government is corrupt to shits and when people deny it... sheesh... nothing I can do for them.  The media... tv... gotta watch out for that shit.  Look television did with germany.


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Flowing through beginningless time since time without beginning...

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Re: Do You Believe in an Extra-Terrestrial Presence? [Re: Humble lurker]
    #8136786 -

We do not convict people based solely upon witness statements. If there is a lack of hard evidence, the case will likely be thrown out.

Besides, what we are discussing here is not law, but science. Science is NOT based upon witness testimony. We have a mass of human testimony on all sorts of ridiculous things, so we simply cannot base our understanding of scientific facts on such statements in the absence of evidence.

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Re: Do You Believe in an Extra-Terrestrial Presence? [Re: Ginseng1]
    #8136811 -

Wow, you're really convinced.  I'm not saying that the government is not corrupt, I'm saying that they are not effective enough to capture every bit of hard evidence from around the globe.  :rolleyes:

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Re: Do You Believe in an Extra-Terrestrial Presence? [Re: Humble lurker]
    #8136873 -

Quote:
To say theres no evidence is to deny the mass of human testimony.



To deny that the thousands of visitors to Marfa, Texas each year have misidentified distant cars as some phenomenon is to deny human's ability towards misidentification and self-delusion.

To deny that the ten thousand witnesses of the Phoenix Lights who misidentified distant flares as some alien spacecraft is to deny human's ability towards misidentification and self-delusion.


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Re: Do You Believe in an Extra-Terrestrial Presence? [Re: Veritas]
    #8136889 -

That is a good point. Like I said, I don't think that humans can simply aquire the hard evidence at our whim. I don't think that is an event that happens globally, rather an event that has happened a handful of times due to certain military activity. Who controls the skies?

Anyway, I noticed that you said you voted "possible, but doubtful due to lack of evidence".

So in this case the only conflict between us is the hard evidence department. Hey, as long as you admit the possibility...

The poll numbers are interesting to say the least...


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Flowing through beginningless time since time without beginning...

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Re: Do You Believe in an Extra-Terrestrial Presence? [Re: Ginseng1]
    #8136925 -

Ginseng1 said:
I am not satisfied with current world affaris and I refuse to believe that this is our "nature".  It sure as hell ain't mine.


I agree, I just don't look to the heavens and wait for benevolent angels to descend and enlighten us. :smile: See what I mean?


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:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil 
- Thomas Paine

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Re: Do You Believe in an Extra-Terrestrial Presence? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8136931 -

just thought i'd throw in my two cents.

incidences of misidentification aside, i think "real" alien experiences are hallucinatory and may be associated with trance states and self/mass hypnosis.

that being said i think there IS some sort of event going on externally to trigger these experiences.
in my opinion the alien description is a projection people put onto experiences because there is no sensory way to interpret the experience, whatever the unknown thing causing this is, there is nothing that people can compare it to, other than perhaps sci-fi stuff.

edit: i think there isother stuff too like demon encounters and bigfoot and so on and so on. i think these things are, if not the same phenomenon through a different filter, then at least related.


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You can check the last post in my journal for contact info.

Edited by truekimbo2 (03/12/08 02:16 PM)

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Re: Do You Believe in an Extra-Terrestrial Presence? [Re: Ginseng1]
    #8137093 -

"What goes on in this planet is not representative of the universes true power."

And here we identify the core of my disagreement with your approach. I have absolutely no problem with people who believe in ETs on earth, nor with the idea itself.

But if you dont see that every single living thing on this planet is intricately and inexorably connected to every other particle of matter in this entire universe , and thus the presence of the simplest living organism is fundamentally and totally representative of the universes true and incomprehensible power then you have failed to grasp the most central message of both science and spirituality.


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Everything I post is fiction.

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Re: Do You Believe in an Extra-Terrestrial Presence? [Re: Moonshoe]
    #8137198 -

Quote:
the presence of the simplest living organism is fundamentally and totally representative of the universes true and incomprehensible power


Indeed!  :smile:

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Re: Do You Believe in an Extra-Terrestrial Presence? [Re: Moonshoe]
    #8137613 -

Moonshoe said:
But if you dont see that every single living thing on this planet is intricately and inexorably connected to every other particle of matter in this entire universe , and thus the presence of the simplest living organism is fundamentally and totally representative of the universes true and incomprehensible power then you have failed to grasp the most central message of both science and spirituality.


I agree mostly with this. I have never failed to grasp that central message.
You don't have to go anywhere to "arrive". But what about technology that exceeds what we understand? The human experience defines only what we pay attention to, not the universe true and incomprehensible power. I know that "the power" exists because I am here. But our experience limits our understanding in what other powers the universe might have catalogued. For instance - interstellar travel. This would flatter the universes incomprehensible glory and power.

My point is that the incomprehensible power is not fully represented on this planet. What has more to show about reality? Apes playing with their poop, or a group of humans consciously aware of their awareness, creating things incomprehensible to the Apes? If humans are connected with the entire universe, that means we are connected to all animals, plants, fungus and extra-terrestrial biological entities. Wouldn't it be interesting if there was an exchange of information and culture with an intelligence species from the otherside of the galaxy? This to me would seem like the natural course of life in an intelligent universe.

Life is not defined by the human experience. Only our experience is ours. Reality is defined by all conscious experiences and all instances in all time in all the universes. What if there was a cross between different intelligent species able to communicate? No longer is our experience just ours, but we might come to understand the different experiences in a way much deeper than our understanding of another animals experience here on this planet. The more encompassing our awareness becomes of what truly is, the closer we come to mass enlightenment. Too many boneheads walking around... This is what im tyring to get at.

If the ET presence were true and it is a central reality universe (a highly intelligent and inhabited universe), then that truth is much more real and encompassing than the idea that there is no presence and that there are "limits". There are no limits.

I can learn more about technology, intelligence, consciousness, and history by understanding the UFO phenomenon much more than I could learn those things about a fish. However, both the fish and the alien can equally represent the spiritual realm just like anything else.

Oh yea. Before the big bang there was just a singularity. Now, about 15 billios years later, it has expanded/stretched. It is still a singularity. Nothing is "apart"

I gotta stop writing these essays LOL!


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Flowing through beginningless time since time without beginning...

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Re: Do You Believe in an Extra-Terrestrial Presence? [Re: Ginseng1]
    #8137664 -

I don't really believe in aliens in the physical sense. But I think it might be possible for there to be trans-dimensional entities. EVERY time I smoke DMT and/or Salvia I encounter entities. Are these manifestations of my subconscious? Possibly, but one thing is for sure. As humans we don't know jack shit about the universe in the grand scheme of things.


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Re: Do You Believe in an Extra-Terrestrial Presence? [Re: Ginseng1]
    #8137680 -

Quote:
What has more to show about reality? Apes playing with their poop, or a group of humans consciously aware of their awareness, creating things incomprehensible to the Apes?


Both have an equal amount to "show" about reality, as both are equally real and representative.  It is truly egocentric for humans to claim that our activities are somehow a "higher" expression of reality, and that the activities of (probably) mythical extraterrestrial beings are a still-higher expression. 

Humans are infatuated with our intellect, and tend to assume that there will be other life forms like us in this way, only even BETTER.  What if playing with poop is the main spiritual practice of your ET's?  Will you be disappointed in their lack of fabulosity?  :lol:

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