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InvisibleEgo Death
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When a skeptic becomes an evidence and logic dodger!
    #3707314 - 01/31/05 11:52 AM (19 years, 4 months ago)

OMG He's back what an idiot!  He said he wouldn't continue the fight.  Well, I lied.  My compassion has returned and is back with vengeance.  Thank you S&P, for teaching me how to make a better debate.

**************************************************************************************

Case 1:
The Pascagoula incident involved two men, nineteen-year-old Calvin Parker and forty-two-year-old Charles Hickson, both of Gautier, Mississippi, who were fishing in the Pascagoula River when they heard a buzzing noise behind them. Both turned and were terrified to see a ten-foot-wide, eight-foot-high, glowing egg-shaped object with blue lights at its front hovering just above the ground about forty feet from the riverbank.  As the, men frozen with fright, watched, adoor appeared in the object,  and three strange Beings floated just above the river towards them.

The Beings had legs but did not use them.  They were about five feet tall, had bullet-shaped heads without necks, slits for mouths; and where their noses or ears would be, they had thin, conical objects sticking out, like carrots from a snowman's head.  They had no eyes, gray, wrinkled skin, round feet, and clawlike hands.  Two of the beings seized Hickson; when the third grabbed Parker, the teenager fainted with fright.  Hickson claimed that when the Beings placed their hands under his arms, his body became numb, and that then they floated him into a brightly lit room in the UFO's interior, where he was subjected to a medical examination with an eyelike device which, like Hickson himself, was floating in midair.  At the end of the examination, the Beings simply left Hickson floating, paralyzed but for his eyes, and went to examine Parker, who, Hickson believed was in another room.  Twenty minutes after Hickson had first observed the UFO, he was floated back outside and released.  He found Parker weeping and praying on the ground near him.  Moments later, the object rose straight up and shot out of sight.

Expecting only ridicule if they were to tell anyone what had happened, Hickson and Parker initially decided to keep quiet; but then, because they felt the government might or ought, to know about it, they telephoned Kessler Air Force Base in Biloxi.  A sergeant there told them to contact the sheriff.  But uncertain about the reception their bizarre story might get from the local law, they drove to the local newspaper office to speak with a reporter.  When they found the office closed, Hickson and Parker felt they had no alternative but to talk to the sheriff.

The sheriff, after listening to their story, put Hickson and Parker in a room wired for sound in the belief that if the two men were left alone, they would reveal their hoax; of course, they did not.  The local press reported their tale; the wire services picked it up; and within several days the Pascagoula close encounter was major news all over the country.  The Aerial Phenomena Research Organisation (APRO), founded in 1952, sent University of California engineering professor James Harder to Mississippi to investigate; J. Allen Hynek, representing the Air Force, also arrived.  Together they interviewed the witnesses.  Harder hypnotized Hickson but had to terminate the session when Hickson became too frightened to continue.

Hickson and Parker both subsequently passed lie detector tests.  Hynek and Harder believed the two men's story.  And Hynek was later quoted as saying, 'There was definately something here that was not terrestrial.'

Case 2:
'A Doubly Witnessed Abduction,' is the account of a women Budd Hopkins calls Linda Cortile, who was abducted from her New York City apartement at 3:15am in late November 1989.  'Accompanied by three aliens,' Hopkins reports, 'Linda was floated out of a window twelve stories above the ground, then up into a hovering UFO.  The event was witnessed by two security agents and the senior political figure they were guarding, as well as by a woman driving across the Brooklyn Bridge.  'The importance of this case is virtually immeasurable,' Hopkins points out, 'as it powerfully supports both the objective reality of UFO abductions and the accuracy of regressive hypnosis as employed with this abductee.'

According to Hopkins, the two security men were driving the political official along South Street near the Brooklyn Bridge beneath the FDR Drive in Manhattan when their cars electrical system inexplicably cut out and they coasted to a stop.  They could detect a reddish-orange glow through their cars windshield.  At first, the security agent Hopkin calls Dan thought the glow was the rising sun; but almost immediately he was not facing East but due West.  Peering up through the windshield, Dan and his partner 'Richard', saw a fifty-foot-wide, oval-shaped object with rotating colored lights hovering above a fifteen-story apartment building at the street corner about five hundred feet ahead.

Richard pulled a pair of binoculars out of the cars glove compartment, and, as he watched, the craft - now making a barely audible low humming sound - descended until it was level with the top of the apat-ment building.  All sound then stopped.  A bright beam of blue-white light shot out from the bottom of the craft, and then, to the horror of the three men in the car, they saw a woman in a white nightgown float out of a window on the apartment buildings twelfth floor, accompanied by three small creatures with big heads... (It goes on)

'Please respect our credibility at work,' Richard wrote Hopkins.  'We cannot let our identities be made public.'  He expressed his shock at what he had seen, adding, 'This whole situation flies in the face of everthing I've ever believed or knew about.'  He wrote of the stages of anger, fear, and embarrassment he had passed through.  'The manner they took her drove us nuts!  What could we do to help her? Who was she? Was she one of them?'

Hopkins thought Richards question 'Was she one of them?' a particularly interesting reaction.  'Its a measure of how much they pushed the whole thing away,' he later told me, 'to assume - at least on one level - that maybe she's one of them.  Its almost as if they're saying, "I don't want to think she's a human being and we should have done something." Its easier to think of her as part of the whole business.'

Case 3:
'UFO's in history'

Swiss scholar Samuel Coccius witnesses 'numerous large black discs in the sky' in Nuremberg 1561.  He states 'Suddenly, they started racing towards the sun with great speed, with some turned towards each other as though in combat.  Some were seen to turn a fiery red and then vanish.'

April 19, 1897, in Leroy, Kansas.  That night Alexander Hamilton, a former congressman turned farmer, was awakened by sounds of disturbance among his cattle.  He quickly dressed, went outside, and 'to my utter astonishment,' he subsequently reported, he observed 'an airship descending over my cow lot.'  Hamilton rushed back inside to awake his son and his hired man.  The men picked up axes and raced outside.  Hamilton estimated that the 'airship' was approximately three hundred feet long.  As they watched, the craft descended until it was no more than thirty feet off the ground.  'It was brightly lit within,' Hamilton noted, he added thsat the undercarriage 'was occupied by six of the strangest beings I ever saw.'

During the battle between the Saxons and the Franks at Sigisburg in AD, 776 fiery aerial phenomena appeared overhead in the shape of military shields.

In AD 1118 Emporer Constantine observed a fiery cross in the sky.

I can continue these cases forever but believe the major points should now be apparent.

Other UFO/Alien cases I suggest you research, should you take interest:
Travis Walton Incident
Barney and Betty Hill
Foo Fighters



If you attempt to debunk the entire of this huge phenomena as mass hallucination, deception etc then I will asume you prefer to remain ignorance due to fear of the unknown.  Oh and personally I do not think all crop circles are Alien made, they are man made, and I do not believe every account of alien abduction ever recorded either.

Personal attacks will be ignored this time.  I do , however, refrain the right re-quote this.

I have already realised which parts of this text Hue is most likely to attack and I have already realised the methods some people will attempt to use to subtley debunk this, so try and surprise me!

I would not be surprised if Swami's only contribution here is humor or if he ommits himself from the entire debate, this time!

I find it funny how people constantly state "I have never seen evidence for extra-terrestrials visiting Earth" and then go on to justify their statement with basic logic or current human science, completely ignoring the years of overwhelming evidence such as the above.  Who has really researched this phenomena and who just thinks they have?  I'll let you decide.

I also would like to point out, I often hear people claim that UFO's and aliens are a new phenomena only recorded since the first famous media sightings.  This is a kind of chicken or egg arguement, however, in this case the literature clearly states that there have been UFO/Alien sightings since man could ever record what he saw.  Christopher Columbus and Alexander the great and his army both recorded in their personal logs seeing UFO's, not to mention the countless drawrings/pictures of Aliens/UFO's and entire Tribe based on Aliens/UFO's.  I don't think after the show here last week anybody can claim that people wouldn't with-hold information for fear of ridicule, either.

What is also interesting is how individuals will alter details of their encounter to match their outlook on reality, of course, this is very human in its nature and should not be used as an excuse to discount such a huge phenomena.

Cases were quoted precisely from the book:
Close encounters of the fourth kind
by
C.D.B. Bryan

Suggested reading:
Above Top Secret: The Worldwide UFO Cover-up
by
Timothy Good

Believer and non-beleiver alike, this is a subject that can no longer be ignored.


A few quotes from histories great skepics:
Lord Kelvin British physicist - "heavier-than-air flying machines are impossible."

Robert Millikan Nobel Prize physicist - "There is no likelyhood that man can ever tap the power of the atom."

Dr F.R. Moulton University of Chicago astronomer - "there is no hope for the fanciful idea of reaching the moon because of insurmountable barriers to escaping the Earth's gravity."



Have fun trying to suppress the harsh reality!  :grin:
Do you believe that E.T has visited the Earth?
You may choose only one


Votes accepted from (01/31/05 11:51 AM) to (No end specified)
View the results of this poll



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Edited by danoEoboy (02/02/05 10:33 AM)

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Offlinethe_phoenix
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: Ego Death]
    #3707443 - 01/31/05 12:22 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

I believe that UFOs exist to the extent we perceive them, as manifestations of humanity's collective unconscious, symbolic of our collective fear and apprehension of the Outside, of everything beyond our present (and variable) level of understanding.

Would that be a "yes" or a "no"?

Edited by the_phoenix (01/31/05 12:23 PM)

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OfflineGomp
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: the_phoenix]
    #3707503 - 01/31/05 12:37 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

wheter or not, there are Unidentified Flying Objects...
... ..hum... is UFO something else in American expression?


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Disclaimer!?

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InvisibleEgo Death
Justadropofwaterinanendlesssea
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: the_phoenix]
    #3707506 - 01/31/05 12:38 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Being how religous this world is.

Wouldn't the fear materalize as a devil or something.

When I saw my first UFO craft, I had never heard of them. It was only when my mother explained that it must of been aliens and I started reading books that the fear of what I had encountered hit me.


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InvisibleCosm
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: Ego Death]
    #3707569 - 01/31/05 01:03 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

the human race is extraterrestrial,originally.

Adam and eve are space travelers who go from livable planet to livable planet creating life.it happens all the time, and has been going on god only knows how long.long before we humans here on earth ever existed.yes there are other human like beings throughout the universe perhaps even other galaxies.there are also other living beings who are not human like.many entities exist.

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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: Cosm]
    #3707581 - 01/31/05 01:10 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Interesting but I still prefer the micro-organisms frozen on asteroids theory.

I think that would also possibly explain why so many humanoid beings are seen, that is, the same basic DNA building blocks for evolution.


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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: Ego Death]
    #3707724 - 01/31/05 01:50 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

danoEoboy said:
When I saw my first UFO craft, I had never heard of them.




how old were you? were you living in the basement at the time?

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InvisiblePaou
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Registered: 09/23/04
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: Cosm]
    #3707755 - 01/31/05 01:56 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Cosm said:
the human race is extraterrestrial,originally.

Adam and eve are space travelers who go from livable planet to livable planet creating life.it happens all the time, and has been going on god only knows how long.long before we humans here on earth ever existed.yes there are other human like beings throughout the universe perhaps even other galaxies.there are also other living beings who are not human like.many entities exist.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: Paou]
    #3707862 - 01/31/05 02:26 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

UFOs do exist. UFO = Unidentified Flying Object...not UFO = spaceship. Your choosing to view the world completely through the eyes of pop Internet culture instead of science is your business though.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3707916 - 01/31/05 02:36 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

nice argument :rolleyes:

dano.. aliens are not to be feared


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: Shroomism]
    #3707942 - 01/31/05 02:41 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

My argument addresses the tendancy of people to interpret what they have seen based on what they WANT to see instead of evidence. I used to write safety reports for a living. Two people see the same thing and but give conflicting accounts based on what they wanted to happen. Self interest and fantasy is playing entirely too big a role when one sees a UFO and immediately declares it a spaceship.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3707972 - 01/31/05 02:48 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

You give very little credit to human logic. Or at least, the logic of humans that don't agree with you. What of the police officers and government officials that claim what they saw could not be any modern aircraft or behaved in manners completely impossible to any known aircraft we possess? You claim someone sees a UFO and IMMEDIATELY declares it a spaceship, as if you were there, in that persons mind, and you know for a fact they didn't think it over. That's bunk. You automatically discredit anyone claiming to have contact with UFOs or extra-terrestrials as "fantasy". I'm sorry Hue, but there is a lot more to suggest these sightings and contacts are a LOT more than some fantasy of a few delusional people. You are in no position to discredit someones reality.


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: Ego Death]
    #3708213 - 01/31/05 03:39 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Thanks danEoboy. I have weighed a lifetime of UFO evidence and have come to a conclusion. I find the evidence overwhelming and as a member of the jury of human beings, I find extraterrestrials guilty of existing.





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--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month:  Sons Of Adam - Feathered Fish


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: Shroomism]
    #3708695 - 01/31/05 04:48 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

The individual in question is using emotion...not logic to draw his conclusions. This is obvious from his testimony.

"You automatically discredit anyone claiming to have contact with UFOs or extra-terrestrials as "fantasy"."

No I do not. I am not a believer in extraterrestrial visitation by aliens, but I will hear a compelling case for it. I will not dismiss all of this type phenomenon as total bunk, I am convinced there is more to it, but there is no reason at this point to assume it is the work of extraterrestrials until more credible evidence is made common knowledge.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: Shroomism]
    #3708708 - 01/31/05 04:50 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

You give very little credit to human logic.

Seeing as how both UFOnauts and skeptics will basically agree that AT LEAST 90-95% of all sightings are misidentifications, methinks you give too much credit to human perception.

The fact that many STILL bring up the MEIER case, even though his videos show an object on a string circling a pine tree and his "alien" was a model's photograph from a magazine, show the gullibilty and coloration of the believer's mind.

Seeing as how there is not the slightest evidence that UFOs came from another star system - and on -and on.  :rolleyes:

BTW, how does a light in the sky help one to live a happier fuller life? Oh, wait! They don't!


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The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: Swami]
    #3709100 - 01/31/05 06:00 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Hue said:
"Self interest and fantasy is playing entirely too big a role when one sees a UFO and immediately declares it a spaceship."

Dan Said:
"What is also interesting is how individuals will alter details of their encounter to match their outlook on reality, of course, this is very human in its nature and should not be used as an excuse to discount such a huge phenomena."

BTW, if its not a spaceship then what is it a giant floating turd? :grin:

AT THE MOMENT BOTH SKEPTICS HERE SWAMI AND HUE HAVE OPTED FOR THE MASS HALLUCINATION ANSWER!


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Edited by danoEoboy (01/31/05 06:15 PM)

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InvisibleEgo Death
Justadropofwaterinanendlesssea
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: Swami]
    #3709134 - 01/31/05 06:04 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
methinks you give too much credit to human perception.





Swami, you yourself appear to be good at discerning logic from your senses.

So if you are good then why would you think the majority of other people not to be good?

Are you special?

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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: Ego Death]
    #3709149 - 01/31/05 06:06 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Yes floating turds are a much more logical answer than flying spacecraft


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OfflineSneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: Swami]
    #3709154 - 01/31/05 06:07 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Shroomism, love the tetragon!

I think it is absurd for someone to somehwat understand the length of existenece and size of this universe, or even multiple universes, and still think that in all that time, and all that space, only one tiny rock in one glalaxy of hundreds/thousands/millions would sustain intelligent life?
Hmmm, i think that is harder t o believe than aliens existing.... I have never seen a UFO, so i cant say if they exist or not. probability is 50/50 about. Our race has developed to the point of space travel and we are relativly new in this universe. CHances are that another race could be more advanced and able to make what we call UFO's by being older than us.

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #3709210 - 01/31/05 06:15 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

I think extraterrestrial life is so likely it is inevitable. I also acknowledge that we live on an outer arm of the galaxy, and the speed of light barrier prevents anything, but very long term generational travel between stars. At just under the speed of light such travel would still take several lifetimes to cover just a few systems.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: Ego Death]
    #3709250 - 01/31/05 06:20 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

danoEoboy said:
I find it funny how people constantly state "I have never seen evidence for extra-terrestrials visiting Earth" and then go on to justify their statement with basic logic or current human science, completely ignoring the years of overwhelming evidence such as the above.




Hue :rolleyes:

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InvisibleCosm
Questioning
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3709259 - 01/31/05 06:20 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

and the ones that could get here have no interests in doing so

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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3709627 - 01/31/05 07:10 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

So many people from so many walks of life from so many time periods have seen UFOs. There is SO much evidence pointing to the fact that these are beings from another world. It's not even a question for me anymore.

If i'm ever murdered and my murderer goes to trial, I hope to god you non-believers are not on the jury.





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--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month:  Sons Of Adam - Feathered Fish


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: Learyfan]
    #3709824 - 01/31/05 07:45 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Show me one shred of credible evidence. I would love to be proven wrong. The UFO thing used to carry some weight with me, but 40 years reading and hearing unbelievable stories that could not be substantiated made me believe otherwise. As far a murder trials go, you want an investigator that looks at the evidence, not one that makes rash assumptions or the wrong guy gets the chair.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: Learyfan]
    #3709955 - 01/31/05 08:10 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Learyfan said:
If i'm ever murdered and my murderer goes to trial, I hope to god you non-believers are not on the jury.





:grin: :grin: :grin:

Let me bring in the witness:
"I saw blah blah stab Leary Fan to death with a knife"

The jury:
"Nope you just thought you saw blah blah stab Leary fan with a knife"

If all the evidence points to blah blah then blah blah will be assumed the most likely suspect.

Does the evidence point to E.T?  Blatently and I am yet to see anything that goes against the many reasons given for for why it does.

Apart from 1:  Current science suggests we cannot travel beyond the speed of light.

However, aliens would not be at our level of current science.

Science changes constantly which is why I put those funny quotes at the end of the text.

There would also be many other possibilities, if for instance a race worked for the greater of the race, not the individual, they would happily travel the distances slowly whilst procreating more beings.

Or they could set up spacestations and slowly jump their way through space as they expand.

Or they could work out that time and space is not linear.

Weigh up the evidence?

Edited by danoEoboy (01/31/05 08:24 PM)

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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3710062 - 01/31/05 08:28 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

No, if you've done 40 years of research and still haven't seen any credible evidence then it's pointless for me to show you anything. You will find out that we are right when you're dead, apparently.




--------------------
--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month:  Sons Of Adam - Feathered Fish


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OfflineShroomDoom
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: Learyfan]
    #3710108 - 01/31/05 08:33 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

The Buddha was asked once if there is life on other planets. The short answer was "Yeah, so?" its not essential to know life on other planets. besides if they do exist eventually they will reveal themselves to us. tis pointless for us to try and reach them physically with our current technology. if you really want to know try DMT.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: Learyfan]
    #3710135 - 01/31/05 08:36 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

So you don't know of any concrete evidence either, huh?


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: Ego Death]
    #3710390 - 01/31/05 09:21 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Not to offend anyone, (but I'm sure it will...) I think UFO's exist only in the minds of people who want attention and want to be "special"...

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OfflinePhluck
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: Ego Death]
    #3710458 - 01/31/05 09:37 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

I saw danoEoboy stab LearyFan to death.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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OfflinePhluck
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: Phluck]
    #3710460 - 01/31/05 09:39 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Also, anyone know of any astronomers, who stare into space professionally, who claim to have seen alien space craft?


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: Le_Canard]
    #3710466 - 01/31/05 09:41 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

ToiletDuk said:
Not to offend anyone, (but I'm sure it will...) I think UFO's exist only in the minds of people who want attention and want to be "special"...




And what if you made up that assumption that only exists in your mind with the intent to offend some people to get some special attention for yourself?

I'll give you some since you asked. You are special ToiletDuk
:bow: :hug: :inlove: :flowers: :iloveyou: :kiss: :sun: :thumbup:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3710487 - 01/31/05 09:45 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
Quote:

ToiletDuk said:
Not to offend anyone, (but I'm sure it will...) I think UFO's exist only in the minds of people who want attention and want to be "special"...




And what if you made up that assumption that only exists in your mind with the intent to offend some people to get some special attention for yourself?






Nope, not my intention at all. BTW, you're not psychic either. But thanks for the love! :laugh: :heart:

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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: Le_Canard]
    #3710619 - 01/31/05 10:07 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Anytime! :flaming:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3710631 - 01/31/05 10:10 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

:inlove:

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InvisiblePaou
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: Learyfan]
    #3710660 - 01/31/05 10:15 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Learyfan said:
If i'm ever murdered and my murderer goes to trial, I hope to god you non-believers are not on the jury.



And if I'm ever wrongly convicted of murder, I hope to god that you are not on my jury. I'd be a dead man.

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: Paou]
    #3711968 - 02/01/05 05:10 AM (19 years, 4 months ago)

I was thinking that too, but I didn't want to have to state the obvious.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: Phluck]
    #3712806 - 02/01/05 10:18 AM (19 years, 4 months ago)


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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: Le_Canard]
    #3712828 - 02/01/05 10:21 AM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

ToiletDuk said:
Not to offend anyone, (but I'm sure it will...) I think UFO's exist only in the minds of people who want attention and want to be "special"...




Hang on this is a new one!

Its not mass hallucination, its mass deception!

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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: Ego Death]
    #3712848 - 02/01/05 10:24 AM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

danoEoboy said:
Does the evidence point to E.T? Blatently and I am yet to see anything that goes against the many reasons given for for why it does.

Apart from 1: Current science suggests we cannot travel beyond the speed of light.

However, aliens would not be at our level of current science.

Science changes constantly which is why I put those funny quotes at the end of the text.

There would also be many other possibilities, if for instance a race worked for the greater of the race, not the individual, they would happily travel the distances slowly whilst procreating more beings.

Or they could set up spacestations and slowly jump their way through space as they expand.

Or they could work out that time and space is not linear.

Weigh up the evidence?




You're logic wouldn't be dodging this now would it Hue ^^^^ !!!

Please go on, justify yourself. You've had long enough to think about it!

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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: Ego Death]
    #3713104 - 02/01/05 11:15 AM (19 years, 4 months ago)

I often hear claims of no picture evidence of UFO's heres a few recent pics I found from my country alone.


Havant UK - March 2004



Dorset UK - 1998

There are many more, these were sourced from the BBC. They have an excellent and trustworthy resource for UK UFO sightings.


--------------------

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OfflinePhluck
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: Ego Death]
    #3713124 - 02/01/05 11:18 AM (19 years, 4 months ago)

There's no way those blurry circles could be anything but alien spacecraft.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: Ego Death]
    #3713130 - 02/01/05 11:18 AM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Nice shiny dots.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: Ego Death]
    #3713816 - 02/01/05 01:51 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Great UFO pics. They are Unidentified and Flying Objects of some sort.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3713821 - 02/01/05 02:10 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

The third one has been identified as a 1964 Pontiac Starfire hubcap. Is the model name mere coincidence - I think NOT!


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: Swami]
    #3713826 - 02/01/05 02:16 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Here are is a pic of similar quality to dano's:

The webpage of the guy who took the picture is here:
http://www.skeptic.com/UFO-Pages/UFO-1-models.htm
This is a special variety of spacecraft called an IFO.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3713834 - 02/01/05 02:20 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

WRONG BUSTER! Your pic is of a much higher quality. Notice the lack of digital aliasing in yours. Doh!


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: Ego Death]
    #3714407 - 02/01/05 04:53 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

danoEoboy said:
I often hear claims of no picture evidence of UFO's





Pictures have been analysed and confirmed as non-hoaxes.

Hang on a minute, who was earlier telling me not to base decisions on a sighting alone.  Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
My argument addresses the tendancy of people to interpret what they have seen based on what they WANT to see instead of evidence.
......
Self interest and fantasy is playing entirely too big a role when one sees a UFO and immediately declares it a spaceship.





Credible or not 3 pictures changes nothing when considering such a vast phenomena, at least not for me!

So Hue, you base your post on what you want to see instead of evidence, you're guilty of your own analogy.  I ask again: provide some evidence, if you can!

Diversion tactics, eh Hue?  You really are good at backing up what you say with evidence and sound logic, you've proved that now. :grin:

Edited by danoEoboy (02/01/05 05:30 PM)

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: Ego Death]
    #3715178 - 02/01/05 06:52 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

danoEoboy said:
Pictures have been analysed and confirmed as non-hoaxes.




Quote:

Swami said:
The third one has been identified as a 1964 Pontiac Starfire hubcap. Is the model name mere coincidence - I think NOT!




--------------------

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: Ego Death]
    #3715564 - 02/01/05 08:01 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Look, I just demonstrated that these types of photos are not empirical evidence or even good anecdotal evidence. The UFO in my picture is a hubcap.

"Pictures have been analysed and confirmed as non-hoaxes"

Then show me some of those. The pictures you posted are too indistinct, and too easily faked. Check this one out.

It's made from a DQ blizzard lid on a string. Forensic quality evidence is required to verify something of this nature.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleCosm
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3715739 - 02/01/05 08:26 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

yeah that may be fake, but why is it that every ufo pic is a flying suacer.even the really old ones.

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: Cosm]
    #3715819 - 02/01/05 08:38 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

One of the first saucer shaped spaceships was in the movie "Forbidden Planet" (1953) which predated the bulk of the UFO phenomenon by several years. Other saucer movies followed. It was in the public conciousness. Modern UFO accounts usually describe more "modern" seeming craft...but for photos you just can't beat the simplicity of a hubcap or Frisbee.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3715923 - 02/01/05 08:56 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

UFO sightings were described long before 60's.
If we are to discart medival period and other "superstitious" times,
there have been reports from the 19th century of sightings of
both flying saucer type objects and the flying cigars that are
often mentioned by pilots.

I find that the best proof of such objects are sightings of pilots.
these people know what a plane is and how a plane moves.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3715945 - 02/01/05 09:01 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

i have never seen a UFO nor have I seen a spaceship.

I believe that aliens do exist, but I'm not sure if they have visited this little planet floating in this vast universe yet.

but there's always a possibility...


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: kaiowas]
    #3715983 - 02/01/05 09:06 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

"I believe that aliens do exist, but I'm not sure if they have visited this little planet floating in this vast universe yet."
That is where I stand as well.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3715988 - 02/01/05 09:07 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

The flying saucer itself is post WWII.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3715999 - 02/01/05 09:10 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

hmm...this makes me want to go check on drawings that were done thousands of years ago that some say suggest an alien visit. 

sweet  :tongue2:


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

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InvisibleCosm
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3716008 - 02/01/05 09:12 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

here's one taken in 1927 and one that the Russians built a few years back.you know there is also a theory that humans built these devices.the Germans started it first back in the 30's or 40' supposedly.
There are US patents on the design of how these work.there able to produce gravitational fields.




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OfflineRainyDayDreamAwa
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3716025 - 02/01/05 09:17 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

i think there's a certin aspect of human nature that sees us as dominate over all. When the question comes up if another race, using technology that completly defies everything we understand about the universe, comes to earth to abduct and study people, our human nature makes us laugh at even the thought of it.

Heres what i think of Aliens and stuff;

Do aliens exist? Of course they do! you'd have to be an idiot not to agree, the evidence that life exists beyond ours is growing everyday. go to NASA.com and read all of the new planets they've discovered.

Have aliens visited earth? I beleive that they have been visiting earth since prehistoric times, studying us just as they're probably doing now.

Do they come in peace? I think that these aliens are 100% non-aggressive. they are a race of scientists who probably fly around the galaxy in their little space ships just seeing what makes the universe tick. It makes sence, how would a warlike race of beings (like ours) possibility get to such a point in technological advancment without blowing themselves up (like we will)? Human beings turn every opportunity to help mankind into an opportunity to hurt it, and something tells me that we wont last that much longer with the same philosophies we've been going off of since the beginning of time.

I hope im not repeating anybody or restating old stuff, i didnt have time to read all the posts and i just wanted to put my opinion down on the subject.


--------------------
Lay back and groove on a rainy day.
Lay back and dream on a rainy day

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: Cosm]
    #3716029 - 02/01/05 09:17 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

"there is also a theory that humans built these devices"

The airforce experimented unsuccessfully with saucer shaped craft in the 60s.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleJellric
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: Cosm]
    #3716090 - 02/01/05 09:29 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

My take on the photographs: The second one is an obvious "fake"- it's so transparent I doubt it was ever intended as a photo of a sighting, rather a probable representation of what an alien craft might look like. The first one is (to me at least) fake as well. The UFO looks insubstantial (note the areas of the "craft" where it is very faded and why would someone pose in front of a UFO, wouldn't the craft itself be the story?


--------------------
I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.

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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa

Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 17,235
Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3716098 - 02/01/05 09:31 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

I think that life originated someplace else and seeded its self here. I have seen what I beleave to be ufo's a couple of my friends have as well. On the same hill. Nothing more then a dot twice the size of a star making very eratic and steady movments. It moved in a zig zag side to side pattern then moved onand out of the atmosphere. Friends saw it not to long ago in the same area. I saw it 8 years ago.

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3716501 - 02/01/05 10:34 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
"I believe that aliens do exist, but I'm not sure if they have visited this little planet floating in this vast universe yet."
That is where I stand as well.



Ditto


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InvisibleCosm
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: Jellric]
    #3716556 - 02/01/05 10:47 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

remember that cameras back in the twenties weren't that good i don't know that he was posing in front of a UFO it may have just been there when the camera flashed.

and as for Ekip that the Russians built ,well that was on the discovery channel years ago.

http://www.ekip-aviation-concern.com/
http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0%2C1282%2C61681%2C00.html
http://www.mosnews.com/news/2004/04/05/ufo.shtml

take a look for yourself this is a real alternative flying craft, that the Russians built.the technology for these craft are obviously for real.

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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: kaiowas]
    #3716692 - 02/01/05 11:10 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

kaiowas said:
i have never seen a UFO nor have I seen a spaceship.

I believe that aliens do exist, but I'm not sure if they have visited this little planet floating in this vast universe yet.

but there's always a possibility...




True, true. I don't doubt possiblity of the existance of life on other planets, but I doubt an alien sentient species capable of interstellar travel would behave the way people believe they do....

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: RainyDayDreamAwa]
    #3716751 - 02/01/05 11:19 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

you'd have to be an idiot not to agree

:thumbdown: Try logic instead of insults.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Invisiblephalloidin

Registered: 07/03/04
Posts: 865
Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: ShroomDoom]
    #3716775 - 02/01/05 11:23 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

ShroomDoom said:
if you really want to know try DMT.



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Offlinesoulmotion
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: phalloidin]
    #3717253 - 02/02/05 01:37 AM (19 years, 4 months ago)

I felt I should post, since I know nothing about 'UFOs'.

Actually, I know a little bit about crop circles. Personally I don't think the crop circle phenomenon can be considered evidence of extra-terrestrials. Supposedly, there are reports of UFO sightings at or near the sites of a fresh crop circles. I do believe that crop circles (some of them) are an actual-scientific phenomenon, but I don't believe UFO's --specifically alien spacecraft-- have been conclusively proven to exist. Sure, there may be 'eye-witnesses' and miscillaneous photographs, but the sum of these sundry evidences doesn't satisfy the burden of proof, in my expert (yeah right) opinion.

I do say, the notion extra-terrestrials traversing the galaxy in saucer-shaped vessels is not beyond the realm of possibility...

*soulmotion adjusts his monocle, takes a puff from his arched-wooden pipe, as he sits casually in his pinback leather armchair*

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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: soulmotion]
    #3718527 - 02/02/05 10:30 AM (19 years, 4 months ago)

THAT'S ALL FOLKS!

I MUST NOW CONFESS THAT THE TRUE REASON BEHIND THIS POST IS NOT TO PROVE THAT E.T IS VISITING EARTH.  I ALREADY KNOW THIS AND IT IS NOT MY JOB TO CONVINCE THE WORLD.

THE TRUE REASON FOR THIS POST WAS TO SHOW UP THE SO CALLED 'SKEPTICS' FOR WHAT THEY ARE; DODGE MASTERS!

They all claimed evidence was the answer, so I provided them with a ton of EVIDENCE and LOGIC.

I even stated I bet they would use dodge/humor tactics in my 1st post, and indeed they did!

The skeptics (Swami, Hue & co) couldn't come up with one tiny scrap of evidence OR logic!

Just constant dodging/humour/mockery as stated.

So, this is what a skeptic is, somebody who cannot and will not accept any other point of view than their own.  When cornered they can provided no evidence and no logic and will change there tactics to try to continue their delusion.  CHECKMATE!

THE THREAD SPEAKS FOR ITSELF.

I'M GLAD FOR ALL THE INTELLIGENT PEOPLE THAT HAVE COME THROUGH ON THIS THREAD AND PM'ED ME!!!

THANK YOU and GOODBYE ALL of you in S&P! :heartpump:


--------------------

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OfflinePhluck
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: Ego Death]
    #3718590 - 02/02/05 10:47 AM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Your ego is still showing, danoEoboy, you haven't really proven anything.

This thread was more of an attempt to make skeptics look silly... and it failed, even though you've obviously convinced yourself it was a rousing success.

If you want to prove something to someone who has decided that the scientific method is the best way to do things, you're often going to have to go out and collect the evidence yourself, because if all you've got to go on so far is blurry photos and anecdotal evidence, there's no way you can convince them of anything.

You're going to need to get a camera, and try to take the first clear pictures of aliens. Get other people to prepare to do the same thing.

After you've collected the evidence, don't go out and try to prove that it's the evidence you've been waiting for... that's a common trap people fall into. That line of thinking makes you disregard other possibilities, and sometimes confuse false evidence with real evidence. Bring the photographs to astronomers, and photography experts. Make sure they can confirm what you're looking at.

Then you'll have real evidence.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: Phluck]
    #3718789 - 02/02/05 11:37 AM (19 years, 4 months ago)

let's all try our best to apply the scientific method to things that are outside its ken.

that said, maybe UFOs were built by humans... in THE FUTURE. eh?

and finally, there seems to be some confusion with an assumed link between UFOs and ETs. there's absolutely NO reason to form a link between them, unless you want to. if so, then be my guest

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InvisibleCosm
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3718952 - 02/02/05 12:23 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)




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OfflinePhluck
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: Cosm]
    #3719449 - 02/02/05 02:25 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)



--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3719619 - 02/02/05 03:05 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Well the way these things move suggests technoclogy, and the way these creatures look suggests that they are not a native species from a junge that we have overlooked in our research.
The similarity to our earth primates could suggest that they grew up on earth once or that they are related to us, or perhapse our creators.
But it doesn't make any difference if they are from earth or mars or
some distant star.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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OfflineAmber_Glow
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Re: When a skeptic becomes an evidence and logic dodger! [Re: Ego Death]
    #3720337 - 02/02/05 05:54 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Dano what you have posted in this thread is neither evidence or logic. There are are no clear pictures or video of alien beings or crafts in existence. There are accounts by people who claim to have experienced these things, but there is no way to tell whether they are lying/crazy.

"So, this is what a skeptic is, somebody who cannot and will not accept any other point of view than their own. When cornered they can provided no evidence and no logic and will change there tactics to try to continue their delusion. CHECKMATE!"

How can we give you evidence that something does not exist?

I don't think being a skeptic is about close mindedness, having a lack of logic, or being delusional. I think it's more along the lines of wanting to have solid evidence before believing in something. You post pictures and call them evidence...but we know that many craft pictures are hoaxes. You post accounts of people's experiences and call them evidence....but we know that many people's accounts have been made up.

Most of the people disagreeing with you, myself included, believe that aliens do likely exist but we are unsure whether they have reached earth or not. Do you think we really want to deny that aliens have visited us? Is this what we want to believe? No!! I think it would be really cool to see real pictures of aliens and know that they really exist and have visited us.

You claim to have had an experience, and it very well could be true that you DID see an alien ship. The problem is that we were not there with you, so there is no way for us to verify this. I would feel bad for anyone that ever did actually see an alien spacecraft, because unfortunately everyone would probably think they were crazy.

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: UFO's DON'T EXIST & THEY ARE NOT EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL! [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3720410 - 02/02/05 06:11 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Zekebomb said:
that said, maybe UFOs were built by humans... in THE FUTURE. eh?



I think I'd actually have an easier time believing it's extraterrestrials. At least we can conjecture from modern scientific knowledge that interstellar travel might be possible via wormholes. Based on everything I've seen and read, modern science seems to indicate that time travel, at least for complex organisms like humans, is essentially impossible.


--------------------

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: When a skeptic becomes an evidence and logic dodger! [Re: Amber_Glow]
    #3720432 - 02/02/05 06:17 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

The problem is that we were not there with you, so there is no way for us to verify this.

No, but we DO have the account of the Phoenix Lights in the 1990s wherein some 10,000 Arizonans saw one or more UFOs, many claiming it was an alien craft flying directly over them. Upon careful reconstruction from MULTIPLE videos, it was CLEARLY shown that the objects were military flares and were some 50 miles away from Phoenix.

So these people erred in:

1. Estimating the size of the object (most said it was HUGE because they "connected" the lights into one object.)

2. The speed/movement of the object. (They were falling not transversing the sky).

3. The type and origin of the object. (normal terrestrial objects).

4. The distance and location of the object. (Not overhead, but 50 miles away.)

These keen observers were 0 for 4.

This is why reports are notably untrustworthy. The observers were not liars delusional or hoaxsters, but misinterpreted what they saw according to popular belief. This explains why UFOs are mainly seen at night.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: When a skeptic becomes an evidence and logic dodger! [Re: Swami]
    #3720846 - 02/02/05 07:30 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

What really blows my mind is that so many UFO buffs will tell these same old stories and show the same old pictures...all of which were long debunked...and declare them as empirical evidence. Are there so many gullible people? I can understand one seeing a UFO and making a judgement about it (in my younger days I made just such an assumption upon seeing a UFO, even though I had no evidence for that assumption) because you SAW it, but to believe these tired old scams just leaves me speechless.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: When a skeptic becomes an evidence and logic dodger! [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3724485 - 02/03/05 12:00 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Sorry I couldn't resist hehehe :grin:

What really blows my mind is skeptics claim that they have debunked evidence yet when asked repeatedly for evidence/sources they have NONE!


Go ahead and debunk away, apart from saying "Oh well all pictures are hubcaps"  Thats hardly evidence or logic.

I'll give you a head start:

Provide proof/evidence or logic for debunking case 1, 2, 3 in the original post.

This is the 4th time if asked you and you're still claiming to know the answers with NO EVIDENCE!

Who's really making assumptions here then, still guilty of your own analogy Hue :shake:


--------------------

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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: When a skeptic becomes an evidence and logic dodger! [Re: Ego Death]
    #3724679 - 02/03/05 01:08 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

danoEboy, do not vorry, they exist or do not exist regardless of what people think and believe. If they are indeed ships of alien beings, they won't dissapear because of our beliefs.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: When a skeptic becomes an evidence and logic dodger! [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3725059 - 02/03/05 02:50 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

but to believe these tired old scams

Yeah, but tired old scams are the easiest to support and have a mythical history. Hard to accurately reconstruct something that happened for 5 seconds in a remote area fifty years ago.

The more modern Phoenix Lights, with decent videos in an urban area with much recorded witness testimony, could easily be studied and debunked.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: When a skeptic becomes an evidence and logic dodger! [Re: Swami]
    #3725191 - 02/03/05 03:23 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

You say a modern case of mass experience of UFO in city would be easily debunked. You approach it with a prejudgement.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: When a skeptic becomes an evidence and logic dodger! [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3725252 - 02/03/05 03:39 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
You say a modern case of mass experience of UFO in city would be easily debunked. You approach it with a prejudgement.



He says that because the case he refers to has been debunked. He has the gift of hindsight here.


--------------------

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: When a skeptic becomes an evidence and logic dodger! [Re: Silversoul]
    #3725307 - 02/03/05 03:53 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

It is a rare gift that I have been blessed with. :biggrin:


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: When a skeptic becomes an evidence and logic dodger! [Re: Swami]
    #3725311 - 02/03/05 03:54 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

yeah, not many people have eyeballs in their asses

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: When a skeptic becomes an evidence and logic dodger! [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3725363 - 02/03/05 04:06 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Swami: Dude, it's a metaphor.

Zeke: What's a meta for?"

Swami: *sighs*


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: When a skeptic becomes an evidence and logic dodger! [Re: Swami]
    #3725860 - 02/03/05 05:33 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

I don't know the size, for God's sake. in fact, I don't even know what it is you want measured.

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OfflinePhluck
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Re: When a skeptic becomes an evidence and logic dodger! [Re: Ego Death]
    #3727564 - 02/03/05 09:56 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

danoEoboy, the burden of proof isn't on us. You're the one making the extraordinary claim.

All we're saying is that there's no way to know for sure what you saw. We are not trying to prove a concrete thing.

You are the one trying to prove something, and you're the one who needs to provide proof, not the people saying "are you sure that is what you think it is?"


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: When a skeptic becomes an evidence and logic dodger! [Re: Phluck]
    #3727995 - 02/03/05 10:59 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Phluck said:
danoEoboy, the burden of proof isn't on us. You're the one making the extraordinary claim.

All we're saying is that there's no way to know for sure what you saw. We are not trying to prove a concrete thing.

You are the one trying to prove something, and you're the one who needs to provide proof, not the people saying "are you sure that is what you think it is?"



It is difficult to transmit signals through some substances (e.g. lead, concrete, or osseous matter).

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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: When a skeptic becomes an evidence and logic dodger! [Re: Sclorch]
    #3728182 - 02/03/05 11:27 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

danoEoboy said:
CHECKMATE!




just by the way, didn't we all feel like a bunch of idiots when we fell for DanoEoboy's cleverly-disguised trap?

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: When a skeptic becomes an evidence and logic dodger! [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3728219 - 02/03/05 11:32 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Zekebomb said:
Quote:

danoEoboy said:
CHECKMATE!




just by the way, didn't we all feel like a bunch of idiots when we fell for DanoEoboy's cleverly-disguised trap?



Ya, I have to say, he really overpowered me with his logical capabilities. I'm just no match for his intellect, I'm afraid.


--------------------

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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: When a skeptic becomes an evidence and logic dodger! [Re: Phluck]
    #3729355 - 02/04/05 08:08 AM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Phluck said:
danoEoboy, the burden of proof isn't on us. You're the one making the extraordinary claim.

... and you're the one who needs to provide proof,




I see what your saying Phluck but I think we will have to agree to disagree here.

I feel that in my first post, for this thread, I have provided proof.  I have created a good arguement.  This arguement was then opposed.  If you want to oppose then you should also provide a good arguement including evidence and sources, as I have!

Its no good to sit there and say "I oppose, I oppose".  People want to see reasoning, evidence, logic & sources.

I don't consider 1 case which is controversial (Pheonix lights) to be enough evidence to debunk this VAST phenomena!  Weigh up the difference and the E.T/UFO side of things is still far far more prevailent, even without witnessing anything oneself!

This has been going on since the dawn of man!  If you believe they are not extra-terrestrial then support that claim with the weight of evidence that I have provided that they are, its that simple!

I already know that half the population opposes, but I also know, and have proved, that they have next to nothing to support this point of view! :tongue:


--------------------

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OfflinePhluck
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Re: When a skeptic becomes an evidence and logic dodger! [Re: Ego Death]
    #3729469 - 02/04/05 08:52 AM (19 years, 4 months ago)

There is absolutely no evidence that proves there are no unicorns on Venus either.

I don't think the concept of "you can't prove a negative" and you have quite met each other yet.

What do you want? Pictures of the sky without UFOs in them? 'Cause I can get those.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: When a skeptic becomes an evidence and logic dodger! [Re: Phluck]
    #3735545 - 02/05/05 02:25 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Its actually impossible to prove anything.

But for the sake of discussion we can provide varying levels of likelyness.


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InvisibleAqua
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Re: When a skeptic becomes an evidence and logic dodger! [Re: Ego Death]
    #3735554 - 02/05/05 02:29 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

what? there are many things provable.. For example, I will prove that I am typing


dfsfsdfdsff

Beyond just a 'varying level of likelyness', this text does exist, and is provable...

I hate those arguments where people are like " Nothing REALLY exists"... /rant

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: When a skeptic becomes an evidence and logic dodger! [Re: Ego Death]
    #3735601 - 02/05/05 02:40 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

"I feel that in my first post, for this thread, I have provided proof. I have created a good arguement. This arguement was then opposed. If you want to oppose then you should also provide a good arguement including evidence and sources, as I have!"

You have stated over and over that you do not care about being believed. Why are you now saying you provided proof of something? If this knowledge is certain to you why do you care what others think? What is your end...or motive for aruing in the face of certain disagreement?


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: When a skeptic becomes an evidence and logic dodger! [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3736428 - 02/05/05 05:24 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

:crymeariver:

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: When a skeptic becomes an evidence and logic dodger! [Re: Ego Death]
    #3736455 - 02/05/05 05:29 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

danoEoboy said:
:crymeariver:



Wow, you really got him there.


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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: When a skeptic becomes an evidence and logic dodger! [Re: Silversoul]
    #3736675 - 02/05/05 06:09 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Don't need to get him.
Specially not when he gets himself.


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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Re: When a skeptic becomes an evidence and logic dodger! [Re: Ego Death]
    #3736697 - 02/05/05 06:15 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

The only "evidence" you have supplied thus far is purely anecdotal. Who's really the logic dodger here?

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: When a skeptic becomes an evidence and logic dodger! [Re: Le_Canard]
    #3736836 - 02/05/05 06:39 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

It's you that I don't get.


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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Re: When a skeptic becomes an evidence and logic dodger! [Re: Silversoul]
    #3736852 - 02/05/05 06:41 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Interesting. Please elaborate.

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: When a skeptic becomes an evidence and logic dodger! [Re: Le_Canard]
    #3736863 - 02/05/05 06:43 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Oops. That reply was meant for danoEoboy.


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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Re: When a skeptic becomes an evidence and logic dodger! [Re: Silversoul]
    #3736874 - 02/05/05 06:44 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Hehe! It's cool... :laugh:

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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: When a skeptic becomes an evidence and logic dodger! [Re: Silversoul]
    #3736951 - 02/05/05 06:58 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Whats to get(?) about me?

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: When a skeptic becomes an evidence and logic dodger! [Re: Ego Death]
    #3736971 - 02/05/05 07:02 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

I don't get how you think you've contributed any real evidence or logic to this discussion. I don't get why you rate people one shroom for disagreeing with you. I don't get why you're so hostile to those who are trying to logically explain things to you. The only explanation I can come up with for these things is a massive yet fragile ego.


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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: When a skeptic becomes an evidence and logic dodger! [Re: Silversoul]
    #3737075 - 02/05/05 07:28 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

I have contributed many facts and posted sources for my information.

The bottom line:
Theres plenty of evidence for UFO's being E.T and very little against it.

It doesn't matter that its anecdotal evidence. The fact is this stuff is going on and something is causing it!

I don't see why so many people would lie (some of whom highly accredited people, scientists, astronomers, astronauts) say they have seen these craft. Many of these 'intellects' also state they believe the UFO's they have seen to be most likely E.T in origin.

The way I look at life is from a third person perspective. I'm sure aliens could of evolved and can visit here, I have any faith in science alone its possible. The amount of people seeing them just tops it over the edge for me. Why lie about something this horrible.

Aliens arn't like the holy grail or jesus christ. Accepting their existance is something the ego would not want you to do. The ego is your natural security and fears anything that has the potential to hook you up like a lab rat. Think about how we studies animals but apply that to universal third person perspective.

^I'm sure you won't accept any of this, I expect your egos already picked it apart and binned it line by line. But I speak for truth, for what I believe to be true and I don't care if it goes against the grain. This is what really seems to annoy other people.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: When a skeptic becomes an evidence and logic dodger! [Re: Ego Death]
    #3737357 - 02/05/05 08:36 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

The bottom line:
Theres plenty of evidence for UFO's being E.T and very little against it.



There is plenty of evidence for UFO's, but I have yet to see anyone contribute any evidence for them being ET's.

Quote:

I don't see why so many people would lie (some of whom highly accredited people, scientists, astronomers, astronauts) say they have seen these craft. Many of these 'intellects' also state they believe the UFO's they have seen to be most likely E.T in origin.



People don't have to lie when their eyes decieved them. Swami has already provided the example of the strange lights over Phoenix. I have yet to see you provide any instance of a scientist claiming to have seen a UFO and claiming it to have likely been extraterrestrial.

Quote:

The way I look at life is from a third person perspective. I'm sure aliens could of evolved and can visit here, I have any faith in science alone its possible. The amount of people seeing them just tops it over the edge for me. Why lie about something this horrible.



Third-person perspective? In other words, you claim to be objective? HA! As for the number of people seeing them, what about the number of people claiming to have seen the Virgin Mary appear in various objects? Or who claim to have seen Elvis in some gas station in Tennessee?

Quote:

Aliens arn't like the holy grail or jesus christ. Accepting their existance is something the ego would not want you to do. The ego is your natural security and fears anything that has the potential to hook you up like a lab rat. Think about how we studies animals but apply that to universal third person perspective.



Nonsense. The ego seeks to believe that it knows something others don't, or is in some way superior.

Quote:

^I'm sure you won't accept any of this, I expect your egos already picked it apart and binned it line by line. But I speak for truth, for what I believe to be true and I don't care if it goes against the grain. This is what really seems to annoy other people.



The ego doesn't pick things apart. That's logic. The ego hides from facts which contradict it, and projects its own insecurities onto others.


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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: When a skeptic becomes an evidence and logic dodger! [Re: Silversoul]
    #3741423 - 02/06/05 04:12 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
The ego doesn't pick things apart. That's logic. The ego hides from facts which contradict it, and projects its own insecurities onto others.




You have a strange definition of fact.

You ask for info on scientists, I say research it yourself. I already provided a link to loads of astronomers who have seen them. To me your asking the same question but you could keep going forever, the fact is VERY acredited people have seen and believe in them. You obviously haven't researched the phenomena with an objective point of view if you don't know this.

If you believe in science then why do you avoid the logic of:

Evolution + Amount of stars (thus inhabitable planets) + Micro-Organsism found frozen on asteriods = Universe Teaming with Life.

Considering we know the universe has been here one hell of alot longer than humans, it would be pretty naive to think something far more intelligent can't work out a way to get here and observe us.

This is basic logic and science fact. Nobody has final proof one way or another. We need to keep open eyes and open minds.

I don't have the insecurity, I had a long time to deal with and accept the existance of E.T. I suspect other may not though...


E.T is so likely is is inevitable.

We here with our shallow egos prefer to say well they Can't visit Earth ohhhh no, that would never be possible now.

Why? Because of fear. What is fear? Fight or flight. An animal instinct not a logical decision. Your desire to be secure is always going to be the easiest option.

Edited by danoEoboy (02/06/05 04:22 PM)

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Re: When a skeptic becomes an evidence and logic dodger! [Re: Ego Death]
    #3741512 - 02/06/05 04:32 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

You ask for info on scientists, I say research it yourself. I already provided a link to loads of astronomers who have seen them. To me your asking the same question but you could keep going forever, the fact is VERY acredited people have seen and believe in them. You obviously haven't researched the phenomena with an objective point of view if you don't know this.

You're the one making the claim. YOU back it up.

If you believe in science then why do you avoid the logic of:

Evolution + Amount of stars (thus inhabitable planets) + Micro-Organsism found frozen on asteriods = Universe Teaming with Life.


Where have I avoided this? Where have I said that life doesn't exist elsewhere in the universe?

Considering we know the universe has been here one hell of alot longer than humans, it would be pretty naive to think something far more intelligent can't work out a way to get here and observe us.

How do we know life can get that much more intelligent than us? Even if such life did exist, how arrogant are we to think that they would be so interested in our planet? We'd be little more than cockroaches to them. Besides, considering that the speed of light seems to be the universal speed limit, such a species would likely have to bypass the laws of physics in order to get here and observe us lower beings.

This is basic logic and science fact.

No, it is speculation, and pretty naive speculation at that.

I don't have the insecurity, I had a long time to deal with and accept the existance of E.T. I suspect other may not though...

This may surprise you, but was once very much a UFO enthusiast. I read all about Roswell, and alien abductions, and aircraft sightings by fighter pilots, and strange lights in the sky. I was sure of them, just like you are. But then I grew up. I realized that I simply believed because I wanted to believe, and that most of these things I had read about had perfectly logical, earthly explanations.

E.T is so likely is is inevitable.

Whatever that means.

We here with our shallow egos prefer to say well they Can't visit Earth ohhhh no, that would never be possible now.

I would never discount the possibility entirely. But the laws of physics as we know them make interstellar travel highly unlikely, unless these beings have a life span of thousands of years.

Why? Because of fear. What is fear? Fight or flight. An animal instinct not a logical decision. Your desire to be secure is always going to be the easiest option.

Fuck security! Unlike you, I'm not the one jumping to conclusions based on anecdotal evidence. Keeping an open mind means not jumping to conclusions.


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Re: When a skeptic becomes an evidence and logic dodger! [Re: Silversoul]
    #3742058 - 02/06/05 06:53 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

"Keeping an open mind means not jumping to conclusions."

Good point there. Never assuming is the most honest expression of an open mind. To assume indicates that one's mind is already prejudiced.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Re: When a skeptic becomes an evidence and logic dodger! [Re: Silversoul]
    #3742481 - 02/06/05 08:31 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
Keeping an open mind means not jumping to conclusions.




Nicely put! There's quite a difference between having an open mind and being gullible...

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Re: When a skeptic becomes an evidence and logic dodger! [Re: Silversoul]
    #3746893 - 02/07/05 05:51 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

We all experience reality through a set of mind filters, even myself.

No human is truly objective because anything is possible.

If all humans were plugged into the matrix could science prove it? Not at all.


My only point here has been that we are all equally as unobjective as one another.

If I say "Aliens visit Earth" Its is based on my life experience my perseption of reality.

If you say "Alien doesn't visit Earth" this is based on your life experience & perseption of reality.

Who has the real perception, well as we are all percievers nobody can say.


BTW, Humans have studied cockroaches down to the very last detail.
Why would other intelligent beings overlook studying a planet?
Doesn't intelligence in its very nature make us want to study and learn about everything?
There are many more posabilities than just 1000 year old entities. Your inability to concieve these possibilitites also suggests a biased view of unobjectiveness.


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