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Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced
    #7624660 -

The uninvited guest: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced


When the U.S. Navy deploys a battle fleet on exercises, it takes the security of its aircraft carriers very seriously indeed.

At least a dozen warships provide a physical guard while the technical wizardry of the world's only military superpower offers an invisible shield to detect and deter any intruders.

That is the theory. Or, rather, was the theory.



American military chiefs have been left dumbstruck by an undetected Chinese submarine popping up at the heart of a recent Pacific exercise and close to the vast U.S.S. Kitty Hawk - a 1,000ft supercarrier with 4,500 personnel on board.

By the time it surfaced the 160ft Song Class diesel-electric attack submarine is understood to have sailed within viable range for launching torpedoes or missiles at the carrier.

According to senior Nato officials the incident caused consternation in the U.S. Navy.

The Americans had no idea China's fast-growing submarine fleet had reached such a level of sophistication, or that it posed such a threat.

One Nato figure said the effect was "as big a shock as the Russians launching Sputnik" - a reference to the Soviet Union's first orbiting satellite in 1957 which marked the start of the space age.

The incident, which took place in the ocean between southern Japan and Taiwan, is a major embarrassment for the Pentagon.



The lone Chinese vessel slipped past at least a dozen other American warships which were supposed to protect the carrier from hostile aircraft or submarines.

And the rest of the costly defensive screen, which usually includes at least two U.S. submarines, was also apparently unable to detect it.

According to the Nato source, the encounter has forced a serious re-think of American and Nato naval strategy as commanders reconsider the level of threat from potentially hostile Chinese submarines.

It also led to tense diplomatic exchanges, with shaken American diplomats demanding to know why the submarine was "shadowing" the U.S. fleet while Beijing pleaded ignorance and dismissed the affair as coincidence.

Analysts believe Beijing was sending a message to America and the West demonstrating its rapidly-growing military capability to threaten foreign powers which try to interfere in its "backyard".

The People's Liberation Army Navy's submarine fleet includes at least two nuclear-missile launching vessels.

Its 13 Song Class submarines are extremely quiet and difficult to detect when running on electric motors.

Commodore Stephen Saunders, editor of Jane's Fighting Ships, and a former Royal Navy anti-submarine specialist, said the U.S. had paid relatively little attention to this form of warfare since the end of the Cold War.

He said: "It was certainly a wake-up call for the Americans.

"It would tie in with what we see the Chinese trying to do, which appears to be to deter the Americans from interfering or operating in their backyard, particularly in relation to Taiwan."

In January China carried a successful missile test, shooting down a satellite in orbit for the first time.

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Re: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced [Re: Disco Cat]
    #7624663 -

I think it'd've been better to not show that off to the US so that it could retain it's undetectability for when it matters. Seems like silly move for them to have made.

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Re: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced [Re: Disco Cat]
    #7624710 -

> I think it'd've been better to not show that off to the US so that it could retain it's undetectability for when it matters.

That assumes you are wanting a strategic win rather than a political win.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced [Re: Seuss]
    #7624735 -

I laughed.

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Re: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced [Re: Seuss]
    #7624744 -

Seuss... u got a link for that story? I really gotta send that to someone :wink:

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Re: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced [Re: BrAiN]
    #7624981 -

There is a link ofr the original story in the OP.


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After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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Re: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced [Re: Disco Cat]
    #7625050 -

This has the smell of a recycled news story. Note there is no date given for the incident.

And China having this technology should come as no surprise to the U.S. since they allowed them to have that technology years ago.


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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Re: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced [Re: zorbman]
    #7625071 -

Its a diesel submarine.

This is the lowest-tech type of submarine in the world.

They just happen to be very quiet.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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Re: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced [Re: Disco Cat]
    #7625082 -

I was reading this article on propeller and someone immediately turned and
blamed the non-patriotic liberalz for fighting active sonar in defense of
marine mammals.

we're compromising the nation's security, you know?


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

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Re: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced [Re: zorbman]
    #7625105 -

zorbman said:
This has the smell of a recycled news story. Note there is no date given for the incident.

And China having this technology should come as no surprise to the U.S. since they allowed them to have that technology years ago.


The article says "recently" and its dates Nov 10.
Turns out it happened last month:

-----------------------

Chinese Sub Came Close To U.S. Ships

(AP) A Chinese submarine came close to the USS Kitty Hawk carrier group in the Pacific Ocean last month, a top U.S. naval commander confirmed Tuesday, adding the encounter could have triggered an "unforeseen" incident.

A Chinese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman, however, said she had not heard of such an incident.

The aircraft carrier and its supporting ships were conducting exercises in an unidentified location when the encounter occurred, Adm. William Fallon, the commander of U.S. Pacific Command, told reporters.

The carrier group was not engaged in anti-submarine exercises, but if it had, "and if this Chinese sub came in the middle of this, then it could have escalated into something that could have been very unforeseen," he said.

Fallon, who is in Kuala Lumpur for a 23-nation Chief of Defense Forces meeting, did not give any other details. He was commenting on a report on The Washington Times' Web site that said a Chinese submarine "stalked" the Kitty Hawk and surfaced within torpedo firing range.

The newspaper said the carrier group was operating close to Okinawa at the time of the incident.

"It illustrates the primary reason why we are trying to push, to have better military-to-military relationships" with China, Fallon said.

"Because the fact is that you have military units that operate in close proximity to one another," he said, warning of "the potential for events that would not be what we'd like to see."

In Beijing, Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Jiang Yu could not say if the incident had indeed occurred.

"I have not heard of such a report," she said at a regular news briefing Tuesday. "China has always had a defensive national defense policy. We are an adamant force in maintaining peace and stability in the Asia-Pacific region as well as the world at large," she said.

Fallon's disclosure came at the same time the commander of the U.S. Pacific fleet, Adm. Gary Roughead, was in China overseeing the first ever joint exercise, scheduled to start Nov. 19, between the U.S. and Chinese navies.

"It's a modest search-and-rescue exercise, but it's a start ... so that we can move ahead from what I would characterize as kind of Cold War thinking," Fallon said.

Fallon has visited China three times since taking office about 18 months ago to boost contacts and reduce the potential for miscalculations.

Visits between the Chinese and American militaries dropped off after the collision of a U.S. spy plane and a Chinese fighter jet off China's coast in 2001 but relations have improved recently as Washington cautiously seeks to increase exchanges.

China declined an invitation to attend the Kuala Lumpur meeting, but Fallon said he was hopeful they would in the future.

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Re: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced [Re: Disco Cat]
    #7625162 -

Quote:
The article says "recently" and its dates Nov 10.
Turns out it happened last month:


The article you linked is dated Nov. 14, 2006. :wink:


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Re: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced [Re: Disco Cat]
    #7625167 -

Disco Cat said:
zorbman said:
This has the smell of a recycled news story. Note there is no date given for the incident.

And China having this technology should come as no surprise to the U.S. since they allowed them to have that technology years ago.


The article says "recently" and its dates Nov 10.
Turns out it happened last month:

-----------------------

Chinese Sub Came Close To U.S. Ships

(AP) A Chinese submarine came close to the USS Kitty Hawk carrier group in the Pacific Ocean last month,


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/11/13/uchina113.xml

It also happened last year (2006) to the uss kitty hawk. Or this is just old recycled news....


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Re: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced [Re: zorbman]
    #7625171 -

zorbman said:
Quote:
The article says "recently" and its dates Nov 10.
Turns out it happened last month:


The article you linked is dated Nov. 14, 2006. :wink:



Hmmm. The first one is dated Nov 10 2007. Now I don't know if the second refers to the same incident, or maybe it is old news.

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Re: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced [Re: Disco Cat]
    #7625225 -

regurgitated red scare.

china is planning on shooting malls with missiles this christmas.


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

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Re: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced [Re: afoaf]
    #7625303 -

Why would they bother? They can just flood the market with roofies.


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Re: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7625355 -

It was a US sub painted to look like a Chinese sub by Larry Silverstein. See, he took out a huge insurance policy on an aircraft carriers a few days before the war games, and was ...


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced [Re: Seuss]
    #7625369 -

Down Periscope?


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"

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Re: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced [Re: downforpot]
    #7626059 -

Seuss? Seuss? SEUSS! I think he may have revealed TOO MUCH and has been illuminated. Or ventilated. Too bad. Let that be a warning to you other blabbermouths. It's not nice to


--------------------

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Re: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7626249 -

zappaisgod said:
Seuss? Seuss? SEUSS! I think he may have revealed TOO MUCH and has been illuminated. Or ventilated. Too bad. Let that be a warning to you other blabbermouths. It's not nice to


uh oh

They got zappa...

he knew too much

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Re: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced [Re: zorbman]
    #7627059 -

And China having this technology should come as no surprise to the U.S. since they allowed them to have that technology years ago.

And we're currently paying for this and who knows what other Chinese technology via Walmart and its ilk. :sad:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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