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Disco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 2,601
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Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced
#7624660 - 11/12/07 06:56 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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The uninvited guest: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced
When the U.S. Navy deploys a battle fleet on exercises, it takes the security of its aircraft carriers very seriously indeed.
At least a dozen warships provide a physical guard while the technical wizardry of the world's only military superpower offers an invisible shield to detect and deter any intruders.
That is the theory. Or, rather, was the theory.

American military chiefs have been left dumbstruck by an undetected Chinese submarine popping up at the heart of a recent Pacific exercise and close to the vast U.S.S. Kitty Hawk - a 1,000ft supercarrier with 4,500 personnel on board.
By the time it surfaced the 160ft Song Class diesel-electric attack submarine is understood to have sailed within viable range for launching torpedoes or missiles at the carrier.
According to senior Nato officials the incident caused consternation in the U.S. Navy.
The Americans had no idea China's fast-growing submarine fleet had reached such a level of sophistication, or that it posed such a threat.
One Nato figure said the effect was "as big a shock as the Russians launching Sputnik" - a reference to the Soviet Union's first orbiting satellite in 1957 which marked the start of the space age.
The incident, which took place in the ocean between southern Japan and Taiwan, is a major embarrassment for the Pentagon.

The lone Chinese vessel slipped past at least a dozen other American warships which were supposed to protect the carrier from hostile aircraft or submarines.
And the rest of the costly defensive screen, which usually includes at least two U.S. submarines, was also apparently unable to detect it.
According to the Nato source, the encounter has forced a serious re-think of American and Nato naval strategy as commanders reconsider the level of threat from potentially hostile Chinese submarines.
It also led to tense diplomatic exchanges, with shaken American diplomats demanding to know why the submarine was "shadowing" the U.S. fleet while Beijing pleaded ignorance and dismissed the affair as coincidence.
Analysts believe Beijing was sending a message to America and the West demonstrating its rapidly-growing military capability to threaten foreign powers which try to interfere in its "backyard".
The People's Liberation Army Navy's submarine fleet includes at least two nuclear-missile launching vessels.
Its 13 Song Class submarines are extremely quiet and difficult to detect when running on electric motors.
Commodore Stephen Saunders, editor of Jane's Fighting Ships, and a former Royal Navy anti-submarine specialist, said the U.S. had paid relatively little attention to this form of warfare since the end of the Cold War.
He said: "It was certainly a wake-up call for the Americans.
"It would tie in with what we see the Chinese trying to do, which appears to be to deter the Americans from interfering or operating in their backyard, particularly in relation to Taiwan."
In January China carried a successful missile test, shooting down a satellite in orbit for the first time.
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Disco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 2,601
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Re: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced [Re: Disco Cat]
#7624663 - 11/12/07 06:58 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I think it'd've been better to not show that off to the US so that it could retain it's undetectability for when it matters. Seems like silly move for them to have made.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
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Re: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced [Re: Disco Cat]
#7624710 - 11/12/07 07:29 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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> I think it'd've been better to not show that off to the US so that it could retain it's undetectability for when it matters.
That assumes you are wanting a strategic win rather than a political win.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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Kinematics
coyote vision


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Re: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced [Re: Seuss]
#7624735 - 11/12/07 07:40 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I laughed.
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BrAiN
Art Fag

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Re: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced [Re: Seuss]
#7624744 - 11/12/07 07:46 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Seuss... u got a link for that story? I really gotta send that to someone
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers



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Re: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced [Re: BrAiN]
#7624981 - 11/12/07 09:53 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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There is a link ofr the original story in the OP.
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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zorbman
blarrr



Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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Re: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced [Re: Disco Cat]
#7625050 - 11/12/07 10:14 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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This has the smell of a recycled news story. Note there is no date given for the incident.
And China having this technology should come as no surprise to the U.S. since they allowed them to have that technology years ago.
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers



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Re: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced [Re: zorbman]
#7625071 - 11/12/07 10:20 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Its a diesel submarine.
This is the lowest-tech type of submarine in the world.
They just happen to be very quiet.
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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afoaf
CEO DBK?



Registered: 11/08/02
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Re: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced [Re: Disco Cat]
#7625082 - 11/12/07 10:24 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I was reading this article on propeller and someone immediately turned and blamed the non-patriotic liberalz for fighting active sonar in defense of marine mammals.
we're compromising the nation's security, you know?
-------------------- All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.
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Disco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 2,601
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Re: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced [Re: zorbman]
#7625105 - 11/12/07 10:35 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
zorbman said: This has the smell of a recycled news story. Note there is no date given for the incident.
And China having this technology should come as no surprise to the U.S. since they allowed them to have that technology years ago.
The article says "recently" and its dates Nov 10. Turns out it happened last month:
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Chinese Sub Came Close To U.S. Ships
(AP) A Chinese submarine came close to the USS Kitty Hawk carrier group in the Pacific Ocean last month, a top U.S. naval commander confirmed Tuesday, adding the encounter could have triggered an "unforeseen" incident.
A Chinese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman, however, said she had not heard of such an incident.
The aircraft carrier and its supporting ships were conducting exercises in an unidentified location when the encounter occurred, Adm. William Fallon, the commander of U.S. Pacific Command, told reporters.
The carrier group was not engaged in anti-submarine exercises, but if it had, "and if this Chinese sub came in the middle of this, then it could have escalated into something that could have been very unforeseen," he said.
Fallon, who is in Kuala Lumpur for a 23-nation Chief of Defense Forces meeting, did not give any other details. He was commenting on a report on The Washington Times' Web site that said a Chinese submarine "stalked" the Kitty Hawk and surfaced within torpedo firing range.
The newspaper said the carrier group was operating close to Okinawa at the time of the incident.
"It illustrates the primary reason why we are trying to push, to have better military-to-military relationships" with China, Fallon said.
"Because the fact is that you have military units that operate in close proximity to one another," he said, warning of "the potential for events that would not be what we'd like to see."
In Beijing, Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Jiang Yu could not say if the incident had indeed occurred.
"I have not heard of such a report," she said at a regular news briefing Tuesday. "China has always had a defensive national defense policy. We are an adamant force in maintaining peace and stability in the Asia-Pacific region as well as the world at large," she said.
Fallon's disclosure came at the same time the commander of the U.S. Pacific fleet, Adm. Gary Roughead, was in China overseeing the first ever joint exercise, scheduled to start Nov. 19, between the U.S. and Chinese navies.
"It's a modest search-and-rescue exercise, but it's a start ... so that we can move ahead from what I would characterize as kind of Cold War thinking," Fallon said.
Fallon has visited China three times since taking office about 18 months ago to boost contacts and reduce the potential for miscalculations.
Visits between the Chinese and American militaries dropped off after the collision of a U.S. spy plane and a Chinese fighter jet off China's coast in 2001 but relations have improved recently as Washington cautiously seeks to increase exchanges.
China declined an invitation to attend the Kuala Lumpur meeting, but Fallon said he was hopeful they would in the future.
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zorbman
blarrr



Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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Re: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced [Re: Disco Cat]
#7625162 - 11/12/07 10:54 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
The article says "recently" and its dates Nov 10. Turns out it happened last month:
The article you linked is dated Nov. 14, 2006.
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.


Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
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Re: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced [Re: Disco Cat]
#7625167 - 11/12/07 10:57 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Disco Cat said:
Quote:
zorbman said: This has the smell of a recycled news story. Note there is no date given for the incident.
And China having this technology should come as no surprise to the U.S. since they allowed them to have that technology years ago.
The article says "recently" and its dates Nov 10. Turns out it happened last month:
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Chinese Sub Came Close To U.S. Ships
(AP) A Chinese submarine came close to the USS Kitty Hawk carrier group in the Pacific Ocean last month,
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/11/13/uchina113.xml
It also happened last year (2006) to the uss kitty hawk. Or this is just old recycled news....
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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Disco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 2,601
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Re: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced [Re: zorbman]
#7625171 - 11/12/07 10:59 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
zorbman said:
Quote:
The article says "recently" and its dates Nov 10. Turns out it happened last month:
The article you linked is dated Nov. 14, 2006.
Hmmm. The first one is dated Nov 10 2007. Now I don't know if the second refers to the same incident, or maybe it is old news.
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afoaf
CEO DBK?



Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
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Re: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced [Re: Disco Cat]
#7625225 - 11/12/07 11:13 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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regurgitated red scare.
china is planning on shooting malls with missiles this christmas.
-------------------- All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced [Re: afoaf]
#7625303 - 11/12/07 11:28 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Why would they bother? They can just flood the market with roofies.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
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Re: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced [Re: zappaisgod]
#7625355 - 11/12/07 11:41 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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It was a US sub painted to look like a Chinese sub by Larry Silverstein. See, he took out a huge insurance policy on an aircraft carriers a few days before the war games, and was ...
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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downforpot
Stranger

Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 5,715
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Re: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced [Re: Seuss]
#7625369 - 11/12/07 11:47 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Down Periscope?
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http://www.myspace.com/4th25 "And I don't care if he was handcuffed Then shot in his head All I know is dead bodies Can't fuck with me again"
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced [Re: downforpot]
#7626059 - 11/12/07 02:40 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Seuss? Seuss? SEUSS! I think he may have revealed TOO MUCH and has been illuminated. Or ventilated. Too bad. Let that be a warning to you other blabbermouths. It's not nice to
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced [Re: zappaisgod]
#7626249 - 11/12/07 03:17 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: Seuss? Seuss? SEUSS! I think he may have revealed TOO MUCH and has been illuminated. Or ventilated. Too bad. Let that be a warning to you other blabbermouths. It's not nice to
uh oh
They got zappa...
he knew too much
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced [Re: zorbman]
#7627059 - 11/12/07 06:00 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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And China having this technology should come as no surprise to the U.S. since they allowed them to have that technology years ago.
And we're currently paying for this and who knows what other Chinese technology via Walmart and its ilk.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced [Re: Diploid]
#7627104 - 11/12/07 06:09 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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--------------------
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LucidDream
Hungry BlueFiend



Registered: 05/09/03
Posts: 1,496
Loc: Planet of the Stupid Peop...
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Re: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced [Re: zappaisgod]
#7627349 - 11/12/07 07:00 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Try reading your own link. It says STOLEN, not CLINTON HANDS OVER NUKE DATA. Your spin is getting lamer and weaker all the time. Are you feeling okay?
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced [Re: LucidDream]
#7627379 - 11/12/07 07:05 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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He let it happen. There's lots more of those, too, plus the incredible coincidence of all these illegal Chinese campaign funds that only seem to wind up in Clinton/Gore coffers. Try this one http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/9/29/25139.shtml
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.


Registered: 10/03/04
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Re: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced [Re: zappaisgod]
#7627448 - 11/12/07 07:15 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I just can't believe the Clinton's got away w/ all this shit.
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced [Re: lonestar2004]
#7627569 - 11/12/07 07:35 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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when you control the justice dept... you can do alot- and it didn't help that people ran out of the country, refused to speak, and pled the fifth .. was hard to find hard evidence as I recall
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
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Re: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced [Re: lonestar2004]
#7628889 - 11/13/07 04:35 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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> I just can't believe the Clinton's got away w/ all this shit.
Same as pretty much any other politician, regardless of party. They scream at each other in public, for effect, while picking each others noses in private.
> and it didn't help that people ran out of the country, refused to speak, and pled the fifth ..
Don't forget about the fifty or so people that mysteriously died.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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