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Offlinelysergic
Mycophile!
Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 691
Last seen: 13 years, 11 days
The REAL problem with the Middle East
    #1947554 - 09/24/03 12:56 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I'm tired of reading how it's American actions, or Jew/Israel actions,that cause this intense hatred of us by the Arab peoples, so I'm going to tell you wat I think about it. BTW, I was in Iraq and Kuwait (and a few other nations after the "war"), so I have seen a bit of this formyself.

All of the Arabs in the middle east live under dictators. Their isn't one democracy in that region that is run by arabs. These dictators have offical state-religions (such as Wahhabism, an extreme anti-US religion) that dictate hatred towards the West the "TheJews". The average arab in these nations is impoverished (With a GIGANTIC gap inbetween the average poor Arab and the billionaire oil tycoons). Education ends after 6th grade (an educated populace is much more dangerous than an ignorant one). What we are left with is a group of uneducated, impoverished people with dictators stripping them of all their basic rights (freedom of speech, religion, thought, etc). These people are in such horrible conditions their dictators know they want to escape. So the dictators use their state-run media (Which is the only media, no CNN over there) to preach that it's the fault of the Jews, or the Americans, or the Europeans, that the people are in such squalled conditions.

So, bottom line, the dictators use their control of the media and religion to preach how it's the fault of the Jews and Americans that the people live in such horribel conditions. This prevents the subjects from realizing who the REAL enemy is, and rising up against them. This is why the arab nations are so worried about what will happen in Iraq. If we manage to install a government that actually cares about the people (and by cares about, I mean "doesn't gas" them, or "doesn't build palaces while people starve", then the Iraqi's will be better off for not being under an extremist islamic dictator, and perhaps Iraqi's neighbors wil see that. I don't see how anyone cold not crave freedom?


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In response to an attack killing 15 American Servicemen
PsiloKitten said:
Just give em a little more time, the iraqis are making great progress. And this is unorganized. Wait till they get organized.


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Offlinelysergic
Mycophile!
Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 691
Last seen: 13 years, 11 days
Re: The REAL problem with the Middle East [Re: lysergic]
    #1948676 - 09/24/03 06:31 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Not one person has commented on this?


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In response to an attack killing 15 American Servicemen
PsiloKitten said:
Just give em a little more time, the iraqis are making great progress. And this is unorganized. Wait till they get organized.


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Anonymous

Re: The REAL problem with the Middle East [Re: lysergic]
    #1948689 - 09/24/03 06:33 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

i think that's pretty much on-target.


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: The REAL problem with the Middle East [Re: lysergic]
    #1948690 - 09/24/03 06:34 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I didn't read this post but let me guess...is it the sand-niggers?

Was I right?  :rolleyes:


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: The REAL problem with the Middle East [Re: lysergic]
    #1948691 - 09/24/03 06:35 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

old news. we all know that the whole area is seriously fucked up.
does't mean we should go over there and fix it.
they'll just resent us more for meddling.


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Anonymous

Re: The REAL problem with the Middle East [Re: infidelGOD]
    #1948694 - 09/24/03 06:35 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

that is too.


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Offlinelysergic
Mycophile!
Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 691
Last seen: 13 years, 11 days
Re: The REAL problem with the Middle East [Re: ]
    #1948733 - 09/24/03 06:43 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

alex- Actually ,I didn't use that phrase :-) Have you ever heard of ad homenium(sp)? Just kurious.


--------------------
In response to an attack killing 15 American Servicemen
PsiloKitten said:
Just give em a little more time, the iraqis are making great progress. And this is unorganized. Wait till they get organized.


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OfflineSolitude
protector of theKitab Al-Alzif
Registered: 09/02/03
Posts: 215
Last seen: 13 years, 25 days
Re: The REAL problem with the Middle East [Re: lysergic]
    #1949287 - 09/24/03 09:19 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

so wait for your travels to kuwait and the middle east u gathered all this information? haha thats fuckin pitiful, no shit when u go some place with preconcieved notions, all the things u have been exposed to before (by the media) become "apparent". no shit some arabs hate america. some americans hate america. america is full of whiny bitches just like you "they dont like us they are gonna kill innocent americans". listen be serious, how many of these countries governments actively say "hey you hamaz, hey you al-queda, go bomb the fuck out of the US we will give u all the shit u need." it doesnt werk like that. no government wants to feel the reprocussions of war with the US because yes, and you love to fuckin hear it; you are militarily superior. these people are smarter than you think, for every one iraqi u see cheering the US "liberating" them, there are 5 sitting in there homes thinking to themselves how the ARE being invaded and their lives are all going to change completely, and not all people see this as a good thing, in fact most dont.
Infidel God is completely right, who the fuck is the US to meddle in foreign affairs. its just more nations the can control under the umbrella of the UN. yes the middle east is fuct up but they can fix themselevs they dont need anyone to come and dilute their culture with laws that these people believe to be just.


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More lucid now the dreams become in which the forest dark and cold await me to engulf my soul within the flames of eternal sleep.

"I await this day with no fear ,but the knowlege that that most rewarding and enlightening experiance of life is death." - Chinacat


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Offlined33p
Welcome to Violence

Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 5,381
Loc: the shores of Tripoli
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
Re: The REAL problem with the Middle East [Re: Solitude]
    #1949561 - 09/24/03 10:40 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Now i could be wrong but im going to guess you are not a pure American if you are one at all. Lets assume you are of european decent. It might be hard to have this disscussion if your parents where cleansed by the nazis. Forgien affairs have existed from the begining of nations. If their is to be trade or communication with others there must also be policy. One must be either be in your out and cannot simply poke their heads in the door whenever they want. The current administration is doing their best currently to reslove forgien matters, although your skewed perception may beleive otherwise.


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I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang


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OfflineZahid
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Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
Re: The REAL problem with the Middle East [Re: lysergic]
    #1949565 - 09/24/03 10:44 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Most people don't blindly follow their governments, especially in the Middle East where governments genuinely fear the Islamic radicals that desire revolution, alongside the destruction of the 'Zionist Entity'.


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OfflineLearyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 29,772
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Re: The REAL problem with the Middle East [Re: lysergic]
    #1949789 - 09/24/03 11:52 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

alex- Actually ,I didn't use that phrase 




:eek:



 


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--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month: BLC - I Don't Wanna Go



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InvisiblePsiloKitten
Ganja Goddess

Registered: 02/13/99
Posts: 1,617
Re: The REAL problem with the Middle East [Re: Zahid]
    #1949890 - 09/25/03 12:29 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Most people don't blindly follow their governments

That is a pretty hard concept for people in America to understand and isnt one that the majority of them live by. Hence another reason why Americans cant go magically fix someone's society that they have no possible understanding of. Their ideas have been shaped by American views and their personal life. I've been to the middle east too, but I dont portend to understand all of the struggles and undercurrents of it's people and whole way of life. I cant. You have to live it and be immersed in it to see it clearly. I can say that I wish I could just give them all some exstacy and make them all go to a foam party rave and feel the love.. I can think with my restricted mind of possibilities that might help, but let's face it... Im not some humanitarian genius, better people then I have tried from outside and failed. And to continue to feign superiority and to take away the rights to evolve and grow as people, culture and humanity from other countries is doing nothing but increasing the problems that we as Americans will have to face. Not only are we being attacked from the inside by media, the govt and consumerism run rampant... now people are finally finding their voices and strength against us. In this last week there has been 2 high school shootings and one at a college.. I find it telling that when I was growing up this never happened.. Occassionaly you'd hear about the postal worker, but there is a rising anger in the world and it's course will be run in one way or another. Wether the US kills thousands with bombs and 100s of thousands with sanctions or Saddam kills less then 10K people in 30 years (at an absolutely ridiculous high estimate). As a country we are simply excaberating it, everything is always bigger and better here in america, why not killing and war?

I think about how most of the people I know in America were raised in complete dysfunction. Their parents babysat them with television and ritalin... they spend more time behind the screen of a computer then in the sun.. But they have no concept of how to even deconstruct themselves and put their shit back together in the right way.. much less a foreign culture. I mean, our generation is walking wounded and it's frightening that we are the hope of the world. I fear what will happen when we get to the age that presidency is an option. But dont acknowledge that.. dont acknowledge that our culture is fucked up and acidic and barbaric and militant and being dominated more by fear and control every day and has no business telling anyone about how to develop peace.... try to remove the speck from someone else's eye, that's the ticket.


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Offlinelysergic
Mycophile!
Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 691
Last seen: 13 years, 11 days
Re: The REAL problem with the Middle East [Re: Solitude]
    #1949915 - 09/25/03 12:38 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Solitude said:
so wait for your travels to kuwait and the middle east u gathered all this information? haha thats fuckin pitiful, no shit when u go some place with preconcieved notions, all the things u have been exposed to before (by the media) become "apparent". no shit some arabs hate america. some americans hate america. america is full of whiny bitches just like you "they dont like us they are gonna kill innocent americans". listen be serious, how many of these countries governments actively say "hey you hamaz, hey you al-queda, go bomb the fuck out of the US we will give u all the shit u need." it doesnt werk like that. no government wants to feel the reprocussions of war with the US because yes, and you love to fuckin hear it; you are militarily superior. these people are smarter than you think, for every one iraqi u see cheering the US "liberating" them, there are 5 sitting in there homes thinking to themselves how the ARE being invaded and their lives are all going to change completely, and not all people see this as a good thing, in fact most dont.
Infidel God is completely right, who the fuck is the US to meddle in foreign affairs. its just more nations the can control under the umbrella of the UN. yes the middle east is fuct up but they can fix themselevs they dont need anyone to come and dilute their culture with laws that these people believe to be just.





Uh, Iraq donated money to Hamas and to the famileis of each suicide bomber. Same with most Arab nations. Your post is so hard to read and full of idiotic remarks I won't reply more.


--------------------
In response to an attack killing 15 American Servicemen
PsiloKitten said:
Just give em a little more time, the iraqis are making great progress. And this is unorganized. Wait till they get organized.


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: The REAL problem with the Middle East [Re: lysergic]
    #1950041 - 09/25/03 01:39 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

alex- Actually ,I didn't use that phrase :-) Have you ever heard of ad homenium(sp)? Just kurious.

You've used it regularly lyso:

Here's your post from the other day for example: Hey gosh, I'd almost feel bad for these sand niggers if they weren't spending their time conspiring to commit 9/11, supporting Osama, and allowing themselves to be led into a dictatorship. Well, no, I wouldn't even feel bad then. Amazing how many stories we get about how bad some sand niggers are being treated,

btw, did I guess right? Is it the sand niggers that are the REAL problem with the middle east?


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
Re: The REAL problem with the Middle East [Re: PsiloKitten]
    #1950057 - 09/25/03 01:46 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

PsiloKitten writes:

...or Saddam kills less then 10K people in 30 years (at an absolutely ridiculous high estimate).

Whoa! That caught my eye.

Saddam killed less than 10,000 people in thirty years? That's not what Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International and others are saying, and I doubt either of them could be accurately classified as stooges for the "Bush agenda".

Leaving aside the hundreds of thousands dead in the wars with Iran and Kuwait, and the 5,000 dead in gassings (which to be fair some are now saying were carried out by Iran) within Iraq's own borders, the lowest number I recall seeing from Human Rights Watch et al regarding civilian Iraqi deaths attributable to Hussein's rule was an estimated 290,000, and that was a year before the war. With the information coming out of Iraq now, these agencies are revising their numbers drastically upwards.

Hard to know who to believe.

pinky


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: The REAL problem with the Middle East [Re: lysergic]
    #1950116 - 09/25/03 02:17 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Those people over there seem to routinely scream "Death to America"
and stuff like that. Do we really want them electing their own
leaders??


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
Errorist
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 22,840
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Last seen: 2 months, 7 days
Re: The REAL problem with the Middle East [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #1950203 - 09/25/03 03:00 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Is killing civilians who democratically chose a leader that they knew would kill Americans better than killing civilians that did not have a chance to choose?


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OfflineZahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
Re: The REAL problem with the Middle East [Re: lysergic]
    #1950204 - 09/25/03 03:00 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Hey gosh, I'd almost feel bad for these sand niggers if they weren't spending their time conspiring to commit 9/11...




I don't care for that term, you ignorant asshole.


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Offlinelysergic
Mycophile!
Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 691
Last seen: 13 years, 11 days
Re: The REAL problem with the Middle East [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #1950943 - 09/25/03 02:00 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

RandalFlagg said:
Those people over there seem to routinely scream "Death to America"
and stuff like that. Do we really want them electing their own
leaders??




Thats a very good point. We would have a problem putting a democratic election in place in these places, because htey still have the brainwashed, anti-West/Jew/Israel/Zionist/Christian beliefs. Maybe a few more generations will get things fixed ove rthere


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In response to an attack killing 15 American Servicemen
PsiloKitten said:
Just give em a little more time, the iraqis are making great progress. And this is unorganized. Wait till they get organized.


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Anonymous

Re: The REAL problem with the Middle East [Re: lysergic]
    #1950945 - 09/25/03 02:01 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

htey still have the brainwashed, anti-West/Jew/Israel/Zionist/Christian beliefs.

you might be surprised how many don't. the fundamentalist types may be the most vocal, but they aren't the most numerous.


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