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Evolution: Prove it scientifcally and make $250,000
    #6838952 -

http://www.drdino.com/articles.php?spec=67

:lol:

"Choices of how the observed phenomena came into being..

  1. The universe was created by God.
  2. The universe always existed.
  3. The universe came into being by itself by purely natural processes (known as evolution) so that no appeal to the supernatural is needed. "

"Prove beyond reasonable doubt that the process of evolution (option 3 above, under "known options") is the only possible way the observed phenomena could have come into existence. Only empirical evidence is acceptable. Persons wishing to collect the $250,000 may submit their evidence in writing or schedule time for a public presentation."


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"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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Re: Evolution: Prove it scientifcally and make $250,000 [Re: dblaney]
    #6838963 -

That doesn't make any sense. So any random idiot could just go through the internet, pulling up other "evidence" that was already brought into theory by actual scientists, and possibly win a lot of money?

What a load of crap.

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Re: Evolution: Prove it scientifcally and make $250,000 [Re: Lily_Morgan]
    #6838990 -

I didn't actually visit the site, but I'm sure it's not a real prize that anyone could actually win. That is, the money might be real and available, but there will be no way to satisfy the judges.
It's obviously creationists attacking science.

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Re: Evolution: Prove it scientifcally and make $250,000 [Re: phi1618]
    #6839004 -

I wonder what Diploid would think of this? :lol:

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Re: Evolution: Prove it scientifcally and make $250,000 [Re: dblaney]
    #6839014 -

Quote:
Prove beyond reasonable doubt that the process of evolution (option 3 above, under "known options") is the only possible way the observed phenomena could have come into existence. Only empirical evidence is acceptable.


There is nothing for which we can prove only one way. The title of this thread is not valid to the competition, since it is not scientific proof they look for (as in Occam's razor based on the available evidence), but proof that there are no other possibilities than evolution, which is, of course, absurd. The possibilities for anything are infinite.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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Re: Evolution: Prove it scientifcally and make $250,000 [Re: daytripper23]
    #6839034 -

Hmmm. I believe all three of those answers coincide.

The universe was created by God -- itself. God always existed. The process by which God creates itself is known as evolution.

The creator is the created.


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Entropy is increasing.
To send me a PM, go to my journal

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Re: Evolution: Prove it scientifcally and make $250,000 [Re: dblaney]
    #6839052 -

Notice that #3 has nothing to do with evolutionary theory.


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Re: Evolution: Prove it scientifcally and make $250,000 [Re: Grok]
    #6839053 -

But if science explains it, it isnt god :wink:

PS: whose drew that picture cilosyb?

Edited by daytripper23 (04/26/07 10:22 PM)

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Re: Evolution: Prove it scientifcally and make $250,000 [Re: phi1618]
    #6839057 -

Quote:
It's obviously creationists attacking science.


The debate between creationism and evolution is not religion vs. science, it's science vs. science. Intelligent design (creationism) is a theory in its own right; it brings strong, compelling evidence that the cosmos may have been birthed via an outside, albeit unknown, force.

It is instructive to note that ascribing to intelligent design does not designate one as a religious individual; intelligent design is an idea separate from any creed, faith, or dogma. Now, I concede that there are many religious individuals who are proponents of creationism, yet this does not translate that all creationists are religious folk. Further, intelligent design only implies a general creator. It does not automatically imply that the universe was created by the Christian "God" or the Jewish "God" anymore than it implies that the universe was created by Marduk or Zeus.

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Re: Evolution: Prove it scientifcally and make $250,000 [Re: vigilant_mind]
    #6839083 -

First off, here's how he defines evolution. No wonder no one has won the award of proving "evolution."

"*NOTE:

When I use the word evolution, I am not referring to the minor variations found in all of the various life forms (microevolution). I am referring to the general theory of evolution which believes these five major events took place without God:

1. Time, space, and matter came into existence by themselves.
2. Planets and stars formed from space dust.
3. Matter created life by itself.
4. Early life-forms learned to reproduce themselves.
5. Major changes occurred between these diverse life forms (i.e., fish changed to amphibians, amphibians changed to reptiles, and reptiles changed to birds or mammals). "


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I don't know what's gonna happen man, but I wanna have my kicks before the whole shithouse goes up in flames. -Jim Morrison

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Re: Evolution: Prove it scientifcally and make $250,000 [Re: vigilant_mind]
    #6839088 -

Actually, intelligent design is more of a philosophical position. For biological life, what scientific evidence do you find that coincides better with evolution than intelligent design?

If you want to argue for intelligent design, then the most logical way would be to point out existence. Nothing can come from nothing, so where did the Big Bang come from? If time is linear, then either there is a first cause, which is scientifically impossible since nothing comes from nothing, and it is also impossible that the linear past is infinite, because if the past were infinite, then by definition of infinity we could never reach the present moment since that would require time to have passed through infinity, which supposedly has no end.

Philosophically conceding these two positions, the only explanation is that some sort of consciousness or existence outside of space and time set forth the linear timescale and the material universe. However, after the existence of the universe and our cosmological constants are already explained, trying to argue intelligent design for evolution is folly.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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Re: Evolution: Prove it scientifcally and make $250,000 [Re: guitarguy0123]
    #6839101 -

Hah, that is a clever yet useless little contest then. They're basically asking scientists to explain why something exists instead of nothing, which is, of course, impossible to expain scientifically at this moment in time, and perhaps forever.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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Re: Evolution: Prove it scientifcally and make $250,000 [Re: vigilant_mind]
    #6839116 -

it isnt a real contest, but more advertisement for dr. Kent hovind.

I have seen the guy speak twice.

how? because he came to my high school years back because our "creation club" (i shit you not) got him to do presentations after school hours in the auditorium.
why was i there? Because the club me and my friends made (sponsored by a teacher) called the "free thinkers club" all attended hoping to win the million dollars. it was that at one time. not sure why he dropped the prize price.

here are a few things he claims.
1) the world is only 6000 years old
2) the grand canyon was made in a few months
3) what we know as prehistoric dinosaurs actually co-existed with humans.
4) carbon dating is fundamentally flawed and highly innaccurate

along with an impressive array of completely stupid other shit.

One thing I will give the guy credit for was that he could shoot rubber bands the length of a football field.

but my friends and I asked him how he explained how we could see stars that were more than 6000 light years away and he changed the subject and refused to answer after about three attempts... he finally said "you guys are doing what is known as hit and run debating, you have to give me time to answer one question at a time".

but he still never gave an answer.

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Re: Evolution: Prove it scientifcally and make $250,000 [Re: dblaney]
    #6839120 -

Quote:
My suggestion:
Proponents of the theory of evolution would do well to admit that they believe in evolution, but they do not know that it happened the way they teach. They should call evolution their "faith" or "religion," and stop including it in books of science. Give up faith in the silly religion of evolutionism, and trust the God of the Bible (who is the Creator of this universe and will be your Judge, and mine, one day soon) to forgive you and to save you from the coming judgment on man’s sin.


Wow! That's offensive! And completely stupid!

Quote:
If you are convinced that evolution is an indisputable fact, may I suggest that you offer $250,000 for any empirical or historical evidence against the general theory of evolution. This might include the following:

1. The earth is not billions of years old (thus destroying the possibility of evolution having happened as it is being taught).
2. No animal has ever been observed changing into any fundamentally different kind of animal.
3. No one has ever observed life spontaneously arising from nonliving matter.
4. Matter cannot make itself out of nothing.


1. http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-age-of-earth.html#howold
2. http://primordial-blog.blogspot.com/2007/04/evolution-proof-is-in-termites.html
3. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis
4. Err..

I don't claim these arguments are in any way watertight, but neither are theres. Pretty crooked fucks.


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From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.

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Re: Evolution: Prove it scientifcally and make $250,000 [Re: Ravus]
    #6839129 -

Quote:
Actually, intelligent design is more of a philosophical position. For biological life, what scientific evidence do you find that coincides better with evolution than intelligent design?


Evidence from biology:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreducible_complexity

Statistical chances of evolution:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specified_complexity

Evidence from cosmology:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fine-tuned_universe

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Re: Evolution: Prove it scientifcally and make $250,000 [Re: vigilant_mind]
    #6839199 -

I said biological life, which excludes the fine-tuned universe argument, as I pointed out that science cannot explain existence with any current theories (though there are interpretations, but these have no supporting evidence.)

The link from your second article clearly states: "The concept of specified complexity is widely regarded as mathematically unsound and has not been the basis for further independent work in information theory or complexity theory. [1][2][3]" And from my studies on specified complexity in the past when I was studying intelligent design, his mathematics are generally considered useless in the scientific community.

Irreducible complexity is a flawed interpretation of biological systems which seems to imply that parts have only one use, when in terms of natural selection our anatomy is versatile and can start as one thing and end as something radically different. The arguments from irreducible complexity are not scientifically sound and have no experimental evidence, and computer simulations done on biological systems refute the mathematics and arguments put forth by proponents of irreducible complexity.

There seems to me to be some existence outside of space and time required for this linear, space-bound existence, but it is folly to argue against natural selection when computer simulations, mathematics and all the biological evidence seem to indicate the opposite. Abiogenesis is still rather shaky ground, but that's not surprising seeing how we're trying to understand in the past couple centuries a process that took billions of years to undergo spontaneously. If you do want to find an actual scientific way of disproving evolution at the base, then abiogenesis would look the most logical way to do it at this point in time.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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Re: Evolution: Prove it scientifcally and make $250,000 [Re: vigilant_mind]
    #6839211 -

Quote:
The debate between creationism and evolution is not religion vs. science, it's science vs. science. Intelligent design (creationism) is a theory in its own right; it brings strong, compelling evidence that the cosmos may have been birthed via an outside, albeit unknown, force.


Intelligent design is not falsifiable nor can it make and test predictions.

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Re: Evolution: Prove it scientifcally and make $250,000 [Re: Ravus]
    #6839249 -

Quote:
There seems to me to be some existence outside of space and time required for this linear, space-bound existence, but it is folly to argue against natural selection when computer simulations, mathematics and all the biological evidence seem to indicate the opposite.


I concur that the bulk of biological life points towards evolution, yet I still think that intelligent design deserves its own case as its research develops.

Quote:
If you do want to find an actual scientific way of disproving evolution at the base, then abiogenesis would look the most logical way to do it at this point in time.



Let it be known that I am not attempting to ratify intelligent design as being the correct scientific theory, I am simply trying to follow where the evidence leads me.

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Re: Evolution: Prove it scientifcally and make $250,000 [Re: vigilant_mind]
    #6839264 -

Quote:
Intelligent design is not falsifiable nor can it make and test predictions.


Actually, it is falsifiable. Obviously, evolution poses evidence that is clearly contradictory to intelligent design's premises. As to making and testing predictions, my knowledge is lacking. I'll have to return to you on that one.

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Re: Evolution: Prove it scientifcally and make $250,000 [Re: vigilant_mind]
    #6839302 -

Quote:
Obviously, evolution poses evidence that is clearly contradictory to intelligent design's premises.


No, because any naturalistic evidence for evolution is regarded as part of the design. There is no evidence a biologist could muster up that a creationist could not reply with, "It was designed to work that way."

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