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Morel and morel excited!
    #6790457 -

Thanks to Workman and greysRDbest there are some great threads on topia regarding morel cultivation.

Based on this inspiration and the programmable greenhouse (http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/6783616/an/0/page/0), will attempt an indoor PC controlled morel grow.

Have just about everything needed, except a way to control the simulated heavy rain.

Then the light bulb went off. Why not use the upper shelf of the greenhouse to hold an upper water reservoir and the lower plastic container as a lower water reservoir? Then, by adding a water pump at the bottom reservoir and adjusting the size of the holes in the upper reservoir one could program via the pump the desired inches of rain per hour. One could further add a filter between the collection portion and pump portion of the lower reservoir to keep the recycled rain water clean of any possible contams.



Helpful info:

A Black Morel Culture Syringe (Morchella elata) is available from Sporeworks.

Details of indoor morel cultivation:

http://www.thefarm.org/mushroom/morel.html

http://www.mykoweb.com/articles/morel_cultivation.html

Here is a more detailed version of the process described in the above article:

http://www.bio.net/bionet/mm/mycology/1995-July/002438.html

Here are the patents listed in the article:

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?u=%2Fnetahtml%2Fsrchnum.htm&Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&r=1&l=50&f=G&d=PALL&s1=4594809.PN.&OS=PN/4594809&RS=PN/4594809

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?u=%2Fnetahtml%2Fsrchnum.htm&Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&r=1&l=50&f=G&d=PALL&s1=4757640.PN.&OS=PN/4757640&RS=PN/4757640

Comprehensive study of morels:

http://www.fs.fed.us/pnw/publications/gtr710/

Sure would be nice to break out the Dom Pérignon, if one could pull off indoor morel cultivation!


Edited by The_Jackal (04/15/07 01:26 PM)

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #6793303 -

Found out that I should be using the big buck ($125 versus $18) morel culture syringes for the morel experiments. Ouch!

Also, besides the nearly impossible odds of success, the fruiting temps being 50-60F poses a further problem with summer coming up, so looks like I will have to add some a/c control into the equation.

I may have found a solution to the cooling problem using a vortex tube (http://www.airtxinternational.com/how_vortex_tubes_work.php) and a 120vac electric air compressor. The air compressor would be connected to a computer controlled switch used to turn on and off the compressor based on temperature. This technique could also be used for other cold loving species applications.



If I do pull this off, which seem very unlikely, I will owe myself a big bottle of Dom Pérignon.



--------------------
"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #6793402 -

A very exciting project indeed! I'd be interested in seeing the end products, and how they compare to commercially available morels.

O tempora, o morels. :rolleyes:


--------------------
Raoul Duke: What Leary took down with him was the central illusion of a whole lifestyle that he helped create - a generation of permanent cripples, failed seekers, who never understood the essential old-mystic fallacy of the acid culture: the desperate assumption that somebody, or at least some force, is tending the light at the end of the tunnel.

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: exagram]
    #6793616 -

You can get a self contained AC unit at your local home megacenter to use for your FC. It's what I do to grow edibles. Duct the supply and return into your greenhouse, and run a dryer vent hose from the condenser output to the outside. I keep my edibles FC at 58F.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #6793627 -

Hi RR,

I'm interested in growing edibles as well, especially Reishi mushrooms.

Do you have more information on your setup?

Can I use monotubs? The temperature where I'm growing is 75 Degrees Fahrenheit and the RH is 60%.

-TIA


--------------------
My way of giving back- Thanks Shroomery...
A For Newbs by Newbs Cultivation Resource Journal: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/6748262/an/0/page/0

Edited by eltrkbrd (04/16/07 05:05 AM)

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #6793725 -

Good luck man, I've never heard people say growing morels indoors is easy. I've been wondering myself lately about using atomized spary nozzles on a timer in an FC, seems like a good way to deliver some water to the casing layer. And ruin your floors.

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #6793829 -

RogerRabbit said:
You can get a self contained AC unit at your local home megacenter to use for your FC. It's what I do to grow edibles. Duct the supply and return into your greenhouse, and run a dryer vent hose from the condenser output to the outside. I keep my edibles FC at 58F.
RR


Thanks for the tip! I have a portable air conditioner unit that I could adapt. I am hoping that with the vortex solution I can get temps down to the refrigeration 30-40F levels (I also could always use a manly air compressor).


--------------------
"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: PowRGnome]
    #6793836 -

PowRGnome said:
Good luck man, I've never heard people say growing morels indoors is easy. I've been wondering myself lately about using atomized spary nozzles on a timer in an FC, seems like a good way to deliver some water to the casing layer. And ruin your floors.


Thanks, you definitely will need a drip pan or plastic covered floor!


--------------------
"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: exagram]
    #6793839 -

exagram said:
A very exciting project indeed! I'd be interested in seeing the end products, and how they compare to commercially available morels.

O tempora, o morels. :rolleyes:


Thanks, take a look at this morel indoor/outdoor taste test movie!:

http://vvi.onstreammedia.com/cgi-bin/visearch?user=pbs-saf&template=template.html&squery=About+All+You+Can+Eat&page=2


--------------------
"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

Edited by The_Jackal (04/16/07 07:43 AM)

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #6795429 -

Got some positive feedback from some vortex application engineers and it seems that the 50-60F range is doable, and maybe even 30-40F!

This at least gives me some hope.

As a fallback, as RR suggested, I can rig my portable a/c unit to the greenhouse, which he has done, to get into the 60F range.


--------------------
"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #6797000 -

How much will a setup like that cost with the vortex and all?


--------------------
My way of giving back- Thanks Shroomery...
A For Newbs by Newbs Cultivation Resource Journal: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/6748262/an/0/page/0

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #6797056 -

The_Jackal said:
exagram said:
A very exciting project indeed! I'd be interested in seeing the end products, and how they compare to commercially available morels.

O tempora, o morels. :rolleyes:


Thanks, take a look at this morel indoor/outdoor taste test movie!:

http://vvi.onstreammedia.com/cgi-bin/visearch?user=pbs-saf&template=template.html&squery=About+All+You+Can+Eat&page=2


excellent video! I really enjoyed watching that. I couldn't believe that he liked the cultivated morel over the wild. That's quite a coup for DNP (that grows the morels). I know the regular consensus is that the cultivated morels lack the taste of the wild...

In fact I belong to another message board ( a yahoo group - NAMA cultivation group) where on of the members fruited some morels from an outdoor bed. He said his morels paled in comparison to the wild ones, and I think he even went so far as to say they tasted like cardboard...


--------------------
Jeremy Davis
Educational Concerns for Hunger Organization, Inc.
Check out the ECHO mushroom blog page to see our lab, growing facility, and more-www.echotech.org/greta

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #6797087 -

The_Jackal said:
Found out that I should be using the big buck ($125 versus $18) morel culture syringes for the morel experiments. Ouch!



No, you're good, I just posted in another thread about this. I've seen a side by side thread running a Stamets $150 licensed strain of morel against the $18 Sporeworks strain. The poster said that the Sporeworks strain way outperformed Stamets strain.

Check it out here's what Brainbreath (the grower at the nook) said;
"I forgot to say that between a sporeworks culture, some cultures from stamets, and some wild clones I took, the sporeworks outperforms the rest. The ones I bought from stamets barely even produce sclerotia At $150 a culture it should do alot better, IMO. I need to call 'em and bitch about it.... "

From here:http://www.thenook.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=36717&st=30
Light and Love,
JD


--------------------
Jeremy Davis
Educational Concerns for Hunger Organization, Inc.
Check out the ECHO mushroom blog page to see our lab, growing facility, and more-www.echotech.org/greta

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: Jeremy_Davis]
    #6798385 -

Jeremy_Davis said:
The_Jackal said:
Found out that I should be using the big buck ($125 versus $18) morel culture syringes for the morel experiments. Ouch!



No, you're good, I just posted in another thread about this. I've seen a side by side thread running a Stamets $150 licensed strain of morel against the $18 Sporeworks strain. The poster said that the Sporeworks strain way outperformed Stamets strain.

Check it out here's what Brainbreath (the grower at the nook) said;
"I forgot to say that between a sporeworks culture, some cultures from stamets, and some wild clones I took, the sporeworks outperforms the rest. The ones I bought from stamets barely even produce sclerotia At $150 a culture it should do alot better, IMO. I need to call 'em and bitch about it.... "

From here:http://www.thenook.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=36717&st=30
Light and Love,
JD


Thanks!


--------------------
"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: eltrkbrd]
    #6798399 -

eltrkbrd said:
How much will a setup like that cost with the vortex and all?


It's very expensive (small vortex tube kit ~250, 1.5 HP air compressor ~$200), and here are the latest plans from a post at topia):

"Propose a solution of using an insulated plastic cooler, with white elwire (http://www.elbestbuy.com/meleofretogo.html) lighting, and vortex tube cooling (http://www.exair.com/Cultures/en-US/Primary+Navigation/Products/Vortex+Tubes+and+Spot+Cooling/Vortex+Tubes/Controlling+Temperature+and+Flow+in+a+Vortex+Tube.htm), to create a grow chamber with with capabilities of cooling down to the 30-60F range required by some species. Add a computer controlled cool mist, ultrasonic , fan, etc., and your ready for performing automated cold weather species experiments.

The vortex tube is connected to a small 120 VAC 1.5 HP air compressor to bring the cooler down to the desired temperature. The vortex tube can also be used as a heat source and with a few solenoids could possibly provide a complete heating, cooling, and FAE solution."


Edited by The_Jackal (04/17/07 04:17 AM)

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: Jeremy_Davis]
    #6798420 -

Jeremy_Davis said:
The_Jackal said:
exagram said:
A very exciting project indeed! I'd be interested in seeing the end products, and how they compare to commercially available morels.

O tempora, o morels. :rolleyes:


Thanks, take a look at this morel indoor/outdoor taste test movie!:

http://vvi.onstreammedia.com/cgi-bin/visearch?user=pbs-saf&template=template.html&squery=About+All+You+Can+Eat&page=2


excellent video! I really enjoyed watching that. I couldn't believe that he liked the cultivated morel over the wild. That's quite a coup for DNP (that grows the morels). I know the regular consensus is that the cultivated morels lack the taste of the wild...

In fact I belong to another message board ( a yahoo group - NAMA cultivation group) where on of the members fruited some morels from an outdoor bed. He said his morels paled in comparison to the wild ones, and I think he even went so far as to say they tasted like cardboard...


Very nice set up there at http://www.echotech.org/greta/.  That operation could probably be computer automated, if that were ever needed.


--------------------
"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #6800090 -

You might consider an upright freezer and a Ranco digital temperature control.

http://pivo.northernbrewer.com/nbstore/action/search-do?searchTerm=ranco&x=0&y=0

A fridge could be used but an upright freezer doesn't have the seperate compartments for frozen and refrigerated foods.

You can get used freezers for under $100, sometimes free and a Ranco temp controller is only $99. Add some lights humidification and air exchange on timers and you are good to go.


--------------------
Research funded by the patrons of
The Spore Works
Exotic Spore Supply

My Instagram
Reinvesting Sales Towards Basic Research and Species Identification :amanitajar:

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #6800710 -

Quote:


Very nice set up there at http://www.echotech.org/greta/. That operation could probably be computer automated, if that were ever needed.


Thanks man, I have a lot more pics, and one day when I get off my lazy butt, I'll start a new thread on all of it...

Also the computer automation is cool, but not for the ECHO project. We're trying to work in conditions somewhat similar to fruiting rooms that you may find in Zimbabwe, Ghana, or Venezuela, which are more minimalistic.

All the mushrooms we've grown at ECHO are grown with virtually no atmospheric controls other than a misting system. We just grow different species of mushrooms at different times of year. Besides South Florida is great for year-round growing of all kinds of crops. It only gets down to freezing temps on a handful of days each year. I have been know to cheat and throw one of those portable heaters in my growing house on those ridiculously cold nights. But really the cold for the mushrooms just slows the growth. if it is only intermittent cold, no big deal...just like refrigerating spawn, I'd guess...
Light and love,
JD


--------------------
Jeremy Davis
Educational Concerns for Hunger Organization, Inc.
Check out the ECHO mushroom blog page to see our lab, growing facility, and more-www.echotech.org/greta

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: Workman]
    #6800721 -

Workman said:
You might consider an upright freezer and a Ranco digital temperature control.

http://pivo.northernbrewer.com/nbstore/action/search-do?searchTerm=ranco&x=0&y=0

A fridge could be used but an upright freezer doesn't have the seperate compartments for frozen and refrigerated foods.

You can get used freezers for under $100, sometimes free and a Ranco temp controller is only $99. Add some lights humidification and air exchange on timers and you are good to go.


I love this place. Great idea!


--------------------
Jeremy Davis
Educational Concerns for Hunger Organization, Inc.
Check out the ECHO mushroom blog page to see our lab, growing facility, and more-www.echotech.org/greta

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: Jeremy_Davis]
    #6802532 -

Jeremy_Davis said:
Quote:


Very nice set up there at http://www.echotech.org/greta/. That operation could probably be computer automated, if that were ever needed.


Thanks man, I have a lot more pics, and one day when I get off my lazy butt, I'll start a new thread on all of it...

Also the computer automation is cool, but not for the ECHO project. We're trying to work in conditions somewhat similar to fruiting rooms that you may find in Zimbabwe, Ghana, or Venezuela, which are more minimalistic.

All the mushrooms we've grown at ECHO are grown with virtually no atmospheric controls other than a misting system. We just grow different species of mushrooms at different times of year. Besides South Florida is great for year-round growing of all kinds of crops. It only gets down to freezing temps on a handful of days each year. I have been know to cheat and throw one of those portable heaters in my growing house on those ridiculously cold nights. But really the cold for the mushrooms just slows the growth. if it is only intermittent cold, no big deal...just like refrigerating spawn, I'd guess...
Light and love,
JD


Open my mouth and insert foot! Good points. I think I just must like things very complicated.


--------------------
"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #6803238 -

Nah man, we're all one family here, working towards the same thing. I'm just the hippie kid that you can't get into the shower I guess:grin:

I'm just way into low-tech. That's my thing for myself, but I love to see how complex it can get. I've done some pretty techy grows too, I guess, now that I think about it...


--------------------
Jeremy Davis
Educational Concerns for Hunger Organization, Inc.
Check out the ECHO mushroom blog page to see our lab, growing facility, and more-www.echotech.org/greta

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: Jeremy_Davis]
    #6815242 -

The vortex tube worked down to 40F in an insulated cooler, but will only be feasible with a large (80 gallon or so) air storage tank, so ditched that idea. Instead, hooked up an a/c (pic 1) to the greenhouse for cooling (as suggested by RR). Also added a HEPA filtered fan to suck in the cold air from the a/c (pic 2) for HEPA filtered a/c and extreme FAE . Also, added a heat diffuser made from a sheet to the a/c exhaust output (pic 3). Put both HEPA fan and a/c on computer control for morel fruiting cycle (pic 4).





The above setting was for testing the extreme of temps and RH , taken from the article which suggested this simplified pattern:

"[innoc then] 69-71 degrees F.
Four to six weeks later you should observe whitish mycelial.
After five weeks, you should also see white to rust colored masses forming. These are the sclerotia.
inoculate with about 1,500-4,000 cc sclerotium per meter of substrate.
Refrigerate for about one month at temperatures just above freezing (35-40 degrees F).
Allow the substrate to return to 65-70 degrees F.
"Flood" with sterile H2O. Leave for 24 hours.
apply casing to 1/2 inch thick.
Allow 7-10 days @ 65-70F for formation of primordia . Location should be dark with one to two air exchanges per hour.
Adjust your substrate to 60 percent moisture, relative humidity to 85-95 percent, air temperature to 70-73 degrees F., and air exchanges to six to eight per hour. Light should be maintained on an on/off 12 hour cycle.
In three to seven more days, adjust parameters for full fruit-body maturation: substrate moisture 50 percent, relative humidity 85 percent, air temp 10-15 degrees C., and fresh air exchange at 6 to 8 per hour.
Once your mushrooms have reached a length of 126 mm, you may justifiably break out the Dom Perignon, and party on!"



--------------------
"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

Edited by The_Jackal (04/25/07 12:16 AM)

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #6830200 -

Cannot locate the supersoil :

"Prepare the "supersoil" substrate , the standard mixture is as follows: 20 percent sand, 30 percent soil, 50 percent organic material composed of 80 percent small wood chips, 10 percent rice hulls, 5 percent soybean meal, 5 percent sphagnum. Correct the pH with lime to 7.1-7.3."

So ended up ordering everything ala carte!


--------------------
"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #6844805 -

Got some more computer controlled switches and now heat and ac (and soon simulated heavy rainfall) are on computer control.


--------------------
"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

Edited by The_Jackal (04/28/07 10:55 AM)

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #6848900 -

Started morel LC run today.

Procedure was to make LC solution, shut down greenhouse fans, cool mist, ultrasonic , heaters, ac, etc., spray the inside of greenhouse liberly with 70% iso alcohol, wipe everything down, and introduce working equipment, scissors, tape, inoculation loop, LC jars, morel culture syringe, etc.


Then, used greenhouse glove box features to perform still air LC inoculation.


Finally, greenhouse was put in 75F incubation mode.


--------------------
"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #6864076 -

All supplies are in and the morel LC is going good.

Did some rainfall experiments by hooking up two 2.5 gallon water containers together, one with a pump for pumping water back into the other container. All that is needed now is to make a large shower head connected to the output hose with the pump hooked up to a cpu controlled switch for programmable rainfall.

Why do I feel like Macgyver?









--------------------
"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #6866465 -

Made shower head out of plastic container and tested on remote control for proof of concept. Let there be rain!







Rainwater system fitted inside of greenhouse. Will make bigger shower head for watering of actual morel substrate container.



--------------------
"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

Edited by The_Jackal (05/03/07 09:12 AM)

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #6867454 -

I to will be trying this but i think genetics will be my first step...multiple cultures from the wild find out which one produces the easies...i will see which on produces sclerotium first and primordia...

I really think genetics is the key to these mushrooms...


--------------------
Buy this Car
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=330166869870&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=014

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: strangladesh]
    #6870313 -

strangladesh said:
I to will be trying this but i think genetics will be my first step...multiple cultures from the wild find out which one produces the easies...i will see which on produces sclerotium first and primordia...

I really think genetics is the key to these mushrooms...


Sounds good, I wish I had access to wild cultures. So far, only have access to a syringe of Black morel from sporeworks, and possibly will be getting a wild Grey morel culture from a friend.


--------------------
"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

Edited by The_Jackal (05/03/07 11:51 PM)

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #6871532 -

I wish I had an agar kit handy, I could clone a bunch that fruited in my outdoor patch. Im going to make sure I have everything I need to clone before next season.


--------------------



[quote]KristiMidocean said:
Good now thats clear.WHO FUCKING CARES. If I am fat u all keep pointing it out like its suppose to be a secret.LIke u really have nothing better to do then make fat jokes. If o know its like I do I know yall can come up with NEW AND BETTER SHIT . This shit is old and boring . I left in the first place cause this shit got boring not because of the fat jokes . Fat jokes dont bother me but seriously its old[/quote]

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: Psychoslut]
    #6871909 -

Just save some dry specimens in a ziploc to use for cloning. All of the dry Morchella that i've attempted to revive have been a sinch.

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: Hotnuts]
    #6871971 -

thanks ill go dry a few now. How did you do it? Did you soak the dry morel or just put a dry piece on agar?


--------------------



[quote]KristiMidocean said:
Good now thats clear.WHO FUCKING CARES. If I am fat u all keep pointing it out like its suppose to be a secret.LIke u really have nothing better to do then make fat jokes. If o know its like I do I know yall can come up with NEW AND BETTER SHIT . This shit is old and boring . I left in the first place cause this shit got boring not because of the fat jokes . Fat jokes dont bother me but seriously its old[/quote]

Edited by Psychoslut (05/04/07 11:38 AM)

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: Psychoslut]
    #6872037 -

I break a small section of the stem off in the ziploc and then I crumble it up a bit. Then you can take a sterile knife and use that to scoop out the crumbled tissue. Apply them dry across the agar. Usually within 5 days you'll start to see growth from the mushroom's tissue, or before that. Morchella is very fast! You will have mold as well, so you'll have to make a few transfers to new plates to get away from it. But it's easy to get away from because the Morchella is so fast to colonize.

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: Hotnuts]
    #6875447 -

Hotnuts said:
I break a small section of the stem off in the ziploc and then I crumble it up a bit. Then you can take a sterile knife and use that to scoop out the crumbled tissue. Apply them dry across the agar. Usually within 5 days you'll start to see growth from the mushroom's tissue, or before that. Morchella is very fast! You will have mold as well, so you'll have to make a few transfers to new plates to get away from it. But it's easy to get away from because the Morchella is so fast to colonize.


Can you go straight to LC with the dry culture tissue? Maybe after peroxide bath?


--------------------
"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

Edited by The_Jackal (05/05/07 09:37 AM)

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #6875467 -

Started morel spawn.

"Making spawn
5 parts annual rye grass seed (or other grain)
1 part potting soil

Cover grain with water. Soak 24 hours. Drain. Mix with potting soil. Place 2cc of this into each 1 qt canning jar with micro-porous filter in the lid. Sterilize 1 hr @ 15 psi in a pressure-cooker.

Once cooled, the usual sterile transfer techniques can be used to insert a few small pieces of Mycelium from your agar culture into the spawn jars. Reseal. Cover with foil. Shake and store in dark, cool (69-71 degrees F.) location. Four to six weeks later you should observe whitish Mycelial Threads throughout the medium. After five weeks, you should also see white to rust colored masses forming. These are the sclerotia."

Procedure was to make (1) custom spawn jar with injection port and whatman filter, and (2) mycobag with injection port and filter (purchased from sporeworks), fill with spawn mixture, and PC 1.5 hrs at 15 PSI.

Then, put greenhouse in glove box mode: shut down greenhouse fans, cool mist, ultrasonic , heaters, ac, etc., spray the inside of greenhouse liberally with 70% iso alcohol, wipe everything down, and introduce working equipment, LC jars, syringes, alcohol wipes, etc.

Then, used greenhouse glove box features to prepare four 10 CC culture syringes from LC, and perform still air LC inoculation of spawn jar and mycobag (20 CCs each). Finally, greenhouse was put into incubation mode, at 70F, 80% RH, and no light.

Stay, tuned, morel to come!







--------------------
"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

Edited by The_Jackal (05/05/07 09:46 AM)

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #6875787 -




Can you go straight to LC with the dry culture tissue? Maybe after peroxide bath?


No. You'll need to use agar.

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: Hotnuts]
    #6875870 -

Hotnuts said:

Can you go straight to LC with the dry culture tissue? Maybe after peroxide bath?


No. You'll need to use agar.


Do you know why that is?


--------------------
"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #6877383 -

i have 10 different strains of morel going now....thanks to my last hunt hehe hopefully i stumble upon that easy to fruit strain no one has found yet and become a millionaire....


--------------------
Buy this Car
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=330166869870&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=014

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: strangladesh]
    #6886774 -

strangladesh said:
i have 10 different strains of morel going now....thanks to my last hunt hehe hopefully i stumble upon that easy to fruit strain no one has found yet and become a millionaire....


Gluck! I have about 5 or so strains to work with now.


--------------------
"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #6886981 -

We should exchange a few...i just got some new ones from about 1hr from my house we picked about 4 differnt kinds out there...some really cool tiny ones..and some very big blacks...


--------------------
Buy this Car
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=330166869870&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=014

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: strangladesh]
    #6944027 -

The morel jar seems to be getting cob web mold.


The morel mycobag has growth that is off white and becoming orange-ish.


The morel LC liquid became non-clear also indicating bacterial cotam, but then somehow seems to be recovering.


--------------------
"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #6944058 -

Here is an updated pic of the morel mycobag:



--------------------
"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

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Re: Morel and morel excited! *DELETED* [Re: The_Jackal]
    #6946771 -

Post deleted by Morelman

Reason for deletion: Never again...



--------------------


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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: Morelman]
    #6947751 -

Morelman said:
Your jar looks fine. The grain always looks "fuzzy" at this stage. The mycelium will start to turn brown soon.


Thanks for your expertise!


--------------------
"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #7013116 -

Trying some morel agar work with:

Rose Bengal agar Plates

Description: 1.0% Glucose, 0.5% peptone, 0.1% potassium phosphate (monobasic, anhydrous), 0.05%magneium sulfate, heptahydrate, 0.003% Rose bengal, and 2.0% agar.
Applications: Used for isolating fungi. Designed to suppress bacterial growth.

Not sure if the rose bengal pre-poured agar was a good choice for morel isolations. It seems to inhibit the growth of anything.

It's been two days and nada. How long does it take for the morel cultures to spread on agar from a drop of LC?



Sneezed on a couple of plates for shits and giggles to see if anything will grow on this stuff. The recipe stated "Used for isolating fungi," but it just may be a loose nut behind the wheel (yours truly).

Meanwhile, the mycobag and jar seem to be growing some ball like structures that based on the below pic from http://www.fungaljungal.org/morels/mofire.htm appear to be morel sclerotia.



Will let them go for a couple more weeks to see what happens.

Cheers!

Jackal


--------------------
"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #7017923 -

"Prepare[d 10 cups of] the "supersoil" substrate, the standard mixture is as follows:

20 percent sand [2 cups lava sand],
30 percent soil [3 cups top soil],
50 percent organic material [5 cups] composed of [:]

80 percent small wood chips [4 cups apple wood chips],
10 percent rice hulls [1/2 cup],
5 percent soybean meal [1/4 cup],
5 percent sphagnum [1/4 cup].

Correct[ed] the pH with lime to 7.1-7.3 [using Kelway soil tester]. Mix[ed] well [in 1 gallon ziplock baggie]."



--------------------
"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #7018978 -

Your'e doin a great job on this experiment Jackal. I hope to try this out someday aswell if you can perfect the technique for us indoor grower's.


--------------------
“I believe that water will one day be employed as fuel, that hydrogen and oxygen which constitute it, used singly or together, will furnish an inexhaustible source of heat and light, of an intensity of which coal is not capable.” – Jules Verne, T

“Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by power obtainable at any point in the universe...it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheel-work of nature."
- Nikola Tesla


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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: buddhahoodlum] * 1
    #7019506 -

buddhahoodlum said:
Your'e doin a great job on this experiment Jackal. I hope to try this out someday aswell if you can perfect the technique for us indoor grower's.


Thanks, mang!

If I get just one fruit, I will be happy!


--------------------
"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #7025017 -

"Fill[ed] an autoclavable aluminum [20.2 cm dia x 8.0 cm] tray (i.e. c[asserole] pan)
(liberally punched with drainage holes) to a depth of 2 inches with [supersoil] substrate.
Step 17.
Saturate[ed] substrate thoroughly with water [for 24 hrs].
Allow[ing] to drain completely. Fill[ing] a second, identical tray with soaked [for 24 hrs], [and] drained rye grass seed to a depth of 1/2 - 1 inch."

Will be using oven bags with 1/2 plastic tube polyfil filters for forthcoming PCing step.






--------------------
"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #7026641 -

Interesting!!!
Good Luck!!!


--------------------
MG

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #7029536 -

Jackal, you've got to assume that even if you reproduce the conditions exactly it still might not work. You should have at least 10 trays and try different springtime like triggers. Don't forget there are some known super-weeds that
are growing in the same places as the morels, such as garlic mustard, its a foreign invader and it has been spreading like wild-fire. A plant like that would deplete the soil of nutrients quickly. So you should try a tray with a plant like that, seeded along side the mushroom, when its time to "chill", "freeze".


--------------------
If you wanna ride, don't ride the white horse, if you wanna ride, ride the white pony

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: AcidHorse]
    #7029688 -

AcidHorse said:
Jackal, you've got to assume that even if you reproduce the conditions exactly it still might not work. You should have at least 10 trays and try different springtime like triggers. Don't forget there are some known super-weeds that
are growing in the same places as the morels, such as garlic mustard, its a foreign invader and it has been spreading like wild-fire. A plant like that would deplete the soil of nutrients quickly. So you should try a tray with a plant like that, seeded along side the mushroom, when its time to "chill", "freeze".


Good points! However, I am all set for defeat with this first shot at it, but it will have been a fun experiment nonetheless!


--------------------
"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #7029709 -

"Step 18.
In a clean (use[d] 5% bleach to clean up) draftfree
area [sprayed with Oust, cleaned with alcohol]
open[ed] cooled substrate bag and mix[ed] [38.9 g]
[of sclerotia] into substrate using [alcohol wiped surgical gloves].
Reclose[ed] bag and [being] place[ed] in a cool (65-70°F) dark place for [next] 4-6 weeks.
During this period (the spawn run) the relative humidity [will] be kept at
90-100%, CO2 [uncontrolled] at 6000-9000 ppm, and
no fresh air exchanges [due to being sealed in oven bag]."











--------------------
"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #7088597 -

Update:

substrate tray appears to be colonizing with white fuzz growing from sclerotia innoc points into rest of substrate. Hopefully not contams. Spawn run to last 4-6 weeks ending 7/8-7/22.

Edited by The_Jackal (06/24/07 08:19 PM)

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #7092110 -

Cool man!


--------------------
Jeremy Davis
Educational Concerns for Hunger Organization, Inc.
Check out the ECHO mushroom blog page to see our lab, growing facility, and more-www.echotech.org/greta

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: Jeremy_Davis]
    #7114567 -

Jeremy_Davis said:
Cool man!


Thanks bro!

Here are updated pics from 6/26:



and 7/1:



--------------------
"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #7171785 -

Here is updated pic! Looks like winter is right around the corner.



--------------------
"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #7177196 -

Looking good man, I've been following this for ages, and I assume there are many others watching also.

Have you found this that difficult, or do you think that the problem lied in finding out the method, and not with actually carrying out the procedure?

Hope it all goes well! :grin:

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: Feelers]
    #7178721 -

Feelers said:
Looking good man, I've been following this for ages, and I assume there are many others watching also.

Have you found this that difficult, or do you think that the problem lied in finding out the method, and not with actually carrying out the procedure?

Hope it all goes well! :grin:


Thanks buddy!

In answer to your questions, the method seems fairly straight forward to execute so far.  However, the further execution of the method may be difficult, due to the tight control of temp, rh, etc., and the means needed to carry this out.  I suspect having a modified walk in refrigerator or the like with some hard wired temp, rh, etc., control would be the way to go.

As an update, was inspecting the top substrate  tray and it seems that almost the entire top layer is covered with hard, rock-like, rust colored sclerotia  formations!

Will let it go as long as possible to make sure the entire substrate  is colonized and while waiting on a Coleman thermoelectric cooler to arrive this Monday and to serve as the winter home for the sclerotia.

Will take lots of pics next week during the next step of removing the rye  grass tray nutrient source and placing the substrate  tray into its winter home for a couple of months.

Cheers!

Jackal


--------------------
"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #7186129 -

Impatience got the better of me so here goes:

"Step 20.
CHILLING (a necessary step): After spawn run, remove[d] rye seed tray from bag, reclose[d], and place[d] bagged substrate tray into refrigeration (38-40°F) for [next] two weeks."

substrate and nutrient tray ready for extraction


substrate tray close up


nutrient tray close up


substrate tray sealed up and nutrient tray


nutrient tray sealed up for further colonization of spawn if needed


substrate tray in its winter home



Cheers!

Jackal


--------------------
"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #7190187 -

Double duty!



--------------------
"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #7192640 -

Nice man, I like the He'Brew. How is it, never tried it? (total lightweight with beer anyway -but it's always good to know what's good!)


So from your pictures above it looks like you inoculated directly into the substrate layer. Is that correct?

Also I have a question about the sclerotia you've got there. I've been on a mission for a while to learn about the sclerotia. Did you grow those out yourself or buy the spawn? I'm sure that is answered in the thread, but I'm at work, and kinda gotta run, I'll read the whole thing again later, so only answer that if it is not already in the thread.

Also kudos to you for your great work so far. And also good attitude...
JD


--------------------
Jeremy Davis
Educational Concerns for Hunger Organization, Inc.
Check out the ECHO mushroom blog page to see our lab, growing facility, and more-www.echotech.org/greta

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: Jeremy_Davis]
    #7192927 -

Jeremy_Davis said:
Nice man, I like the He'Brew. How is it, never tried it? (total lightweight with beer anyway -but it's always good to know what's good!)


So from your pictures above it looks like you inoculated directly into the substrate layer. Is that correct?

Also I have a question about the sclerotia you've got there. I've been on a mission for a while to learn about the sclerotia. Did you grow those out yourself or buy the spawn? I'm sure that is answered in the thread, but I'm at work, and kinda gotta run, I'll read the whole thing again later, so only answer that if it is not already in the thread.

Also kudos to you for your great work so far. And also good attitude...
JD


Thanks bro!

To answer your Qs:

1) The He'Brew is OK but not great.
2) A perforated substrate tray was inoculated with morel sclerotia and placed on a rye grass tray nutrient source that was later removed after colonization.
3) The sclerotia was cultivated in rye grass/soil mixture mycobag from black morel LC purchased from SporeWorks for $18.

The above is buried in the thread, but no prob!

Cheers!

Jackal


--------------------
"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #7202062 -

It is my understanding that morel mushrooms that are grown in this fashion are grown with Yellow Morels, not Black.

-Graham


--------------------
www.MycoPath.com
Mushroom Spawn, Cultures, Fungi Bags, Casings, Master Grain Jars, Bags for In-vitro, Laboratory supplies, and much more!
Mushroom Supplies. Fast Turnaround Times. Great Service.
orders@mycopath.com
enter code shroomery for 10% off product.

www.FungiForum.com

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: Cryogenicz]
    #7205806 -

Cryogenicz said:
It is my understanding that morel mushrooms that are grown in this fashion are grown with Yellow Morels, not Black.

-Graham


So black won't work?


--------------------
"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #7205807 -

An upcoming optional step is:

"Step 22.

casing (optional): Layer casing soil evenly to a depth of 1/2". Allow 7-10 days for Mycelium to run through the casing."

Thinking of PCing some potting soil at 15 PSI for 1.5 hours to use as the casing layer.

Any comments or advice?

Thanks in advance!

Jackal


--------------------
"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #7214579 -

Thats what I'm saying.

I believe that they fruit differently.

-Graham


--------------------
www.MycoPath.com
Mushroom Spawn, Cultures, Fungi Bags, Casings, Master Grain Jars, Bags for In-vitro, Laboratory supplies, and much more!
Mushroom Supplies. Fast Turnaround Times. Great Service.
orders@mycopath.com
enter code shroomery for 10% off product.

www.FungiForum.com

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: Cryogenicz]
    #7216465 -

Cryogenicz said:
Thats what I'm saying.

I believe that they fruit differently.

-Graham


Shite, I hope your wrong!


--------------------
"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #7217791 -

me too!


--------------------
Jeremy Davis
Educational Concerns for Hunger Organization, Inc.
Check out the ECHO mushroom blog page to see our lab, growing facility, and more-www.echotech.org/greta

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: Jeremy_Davis]
    #7218487 -

Jeremy_Davis said:
me too!


Well I will find out by 7/31-8/14 when the winter mode step is over and the fruiting step is to begin.

All good vibes appreciated!


--------------------
"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #7222505 -

I've got my fingers crossed for you man!

[good vibes] -> The Jackal [/good vibes]


--------------------
Jeremy Davis
Educational Concerns for Hunger Organization, Inc.
Check out the ECHO mushroom blog page to see our lab, growing facility, and more-www.echotech.org/greta

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: Jeremy_Davis]
    #7222623 -

Jeremy_Davis said:
I've got my fingers crossed for you man!

[good vibes] -> The Jackal [/good vibes]


Thanks bro, at 1000 to 1 odds against success, I need all the good vibes I can get!


--------------------
"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #7222835 -



good luck dude


--------------------
buh

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: shirley knott]
    #7224371 -



Two thumbs for luck! :thumbup::thumbup:

How do the habitats of the black and yellow species differ? Your worst case scenario; nothing happens, you can put them out on the garden and get heaps later on. I'm gonna out on a limb and say I think it will work...

The pessimist sees the hole, the optimist sees the donut. :grin:

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: Feelers]
    #7224624 -

I find yellow morels mostly in riparian habitats and black morels in moist oak forests.

Best thing is to be realistic: see the hole and the donut.

Good luck Jackal


--------------------
Sr_Setahongo

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: Semilanceata]
    #7224690 -

Thanks for the encouragement and dose of realism!

Here is something encouraging from another bro:

Quote:
Originally Posted by greysRDbest:
i personally have picked both black and yellow morels together within a few feet of one anothe.in a good year...the week when the blacks start to fade and the yellows start to pop it is not uncommon to find them fruiting very close to one another. I have observed them forming relationships with some of the same trees even....ash trees in particular host both blacks and yellows.
black morels fruit at 48f or above....greys and yellows start at 52-54 degrees ground temperature.
I think youre doing a fine job..no worries.


From Sporeworks: "Alternative methods recommend mixing wood ash with the sclerotia as black morels are often associated with burn sites. This was not attempted with this strain."

How about burning some of the apple wood chips to mix with the potting soil in the casing layer?


--------------------
"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #7257836 -

In preparation for fruiting, sterilized a quart of potting soil at 180-200F with microwave and to be used for the 1/2" of casing for the substrate.



--------------------
"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #7258023 -

"Remove[d] bagged tray from refrigeration.
Remove[d] substrate tray from bag and plac[ed] in fruiting chamber or room. Slowly saturat[ing] substrate with sterile (65-70°F) [distilled] water at a rate of 1.5-2.5 [not measured] fluid ounces/hr/square foot of substrate surface area for 12-[36] hours. [Will] [a]llow substrate to drain completely (for about 24 hours) [thereafter]."

Added lid rings to keep substrate tray from sitting in water.


Took substrate tray out of fridge and placed on rings.




Set rain v 2.0 to 1 minute on and 5 minutes off duty cycle.




Cheers!

Jackal


--------------------
"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #7261881 -

"Allow[ing] substrate to drain completely (for about 24 hours)."

Tomorrow will add casing layer for casing spawn run of 7 to 10 days (8/6-8/16) followed by primordia formation 3 to 7 days thereafter (8/9-8/24). This presents a problem, as we are going on vacation 8/17 to 8/24.

Not sure what to do, except extend casing spawn run by another week (8/16-8/24).

All suggestion appreciated!


--------------------
"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #7262250 -

you could stall/delay the process by refrigeration


--------------------
buh

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: shirley knott]
    #7262778 -

shirley knott said:
you could stall/delay the process by refrigeration


Good idea! Will add casing layer and throw in fridge for slow casing spawn run.


--------------------
"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #7267269 -

Another question is what temp should I use for black morel casing spawn run. The Sporeworks site says:

"Colonization/fruiting Temperatures: 70-75F/40-60F
sclerotia Formation Temperature: 60-65F"

I did the substrate colonization run at 70F and thinking of doing the casing run at same temp.

The screwed up part is that they are out of the fridge or winter mode and at 70F after 36 hours of rain right now per the mushroom people tek, which may be all F'd up any ways.

Very confused at this point as to how to best proceed next.

A detailed temp, RH , rain, light, etc. timeline for black morels would be most helpful.

Nonetheless, ended up:

"casing (optional): Layer[ed] casing soil evenly to a depth of 1/2". Allow[ing] 7-10 days for Mycelium to run through the casing .
Air temp 65 - 70°F.
Filtered fresh air exchanges at 1 - 2 per hour.
Keep[ing] dark."


Assumed that casing run should be at same temp as colonization run. The poor black morel Mycelium is probably very confused right about now (as am I).


--------------------
"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #7273740 -

These bad boys are incredible! Two days later and look at this:


--------------------
"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #7273944 -

The_Jackal said:



Damn!
Maybe you won't have to worry about that vacation after all...c'mon pins!


--------------------
Jeremy Davis
Educational Concerns for Hunger Organization, Inc.
Check out the ECHO mushroom blog page to see our lab, growing facility, and more-www.echotech.org/greta

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: Jeremy_Davis]
    #7276837 -

Jeremy_Davis said:
The_Jackal said:



Damn!
Maybe you won't have to worry about that vacation after all...c'mon pins!


Thanks brotha!


--------------------
"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #7277114 -

Hey jackal....as you know by now i got banned at mycotopia..im glad you started a thread here so i can keep update on the morel progress.
fingers are still crossed......


--------------------
:greys:

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: greys]
    #7278989 -

greysRDbest said:
Hey jackal....as you know by now i got banned at mycotopia..im glad you started a thread here so i can keep update on the morel progress.
fingers are still crossed......


Dang, did not know that, wtf? Thanks bro!

Latest plan is to let substrate with casing fully colonize, and put it back into winter mode for a few weeks, with more rain (per Lazlo's suggestion), and attempt at fruiting at 45-55F thereafter.


--------------------
"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #7280504 -

Easy! I didn't suggest more rain. :smirk:

Edit- I see. That's just what I would've done.

Edited by Hotnuts (08/10/07 08:54 AM)

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: Hotnuts]
    #7284066 -

Hotnuts said:
Easy! I didn't suggest more rain. :smirk:

Edit- I see. That's just what I would've done. 


It does make more sense!  In nature it seems, the casing layer would be there in winter and would colonize in spring, as soil temps increase.  Thereafter, the heavy rains, and right temperature, RH, etc., conditions would induce fruiting.  The odds of failure seem much greater than 1000 to 1 at this point, but will continue with experiment. 

Any suggestions from the morel Gods would be much appreciated!

Cheers!

Jackal


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"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #7303474 -

Cased substrate back in fridge and in winter mode! Hopefully, the morel Mycelium will tolerate my newbness.


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"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #7381622 -

Update:

I have not gotten around to setting up thermoelectric cooler as cold temperature greenhouse. The casing is accordingly fully colonized and when I get un-busy with my new job will jump on the cold temp cooler modification (hopefully in a couple of weeks).

For now, here is a pic of the substrate in winter mode at 38F:


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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #7383710 -

Decided to get off my ass and build the morel thermoelectric cooler fruiting chamber. Looks very promising!









A nice thing about the thermoelectric cooler is that it is constantly providing fresh air exchange (through an added filter), as part of its normal operation, which employs an input and output fan.




I'm wondering whether I should provide more rain before attempting fruiting.


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"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #7385121 -

This is what the black morel hyphae look like and this is their branching pattern.
If it does not resemble this you may be off.
However Jackal, you have nothing to worry about from what I can see that
is indeed morel mycelia growing


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If you wanna ride, don't ride the white horse, if you wanna ride, ride the white pony

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #7385262 -

Here is black morel spores that have germinated under the microscope and what their hyphal pattern looks like.


All too obvious.

Plus I've discovered a technique for isolating a pure culture of morel.


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If you wanna ride, don't ride the white horse, if you wanna ride, ride the white pony

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #7385395 -

Here it is growing fluffy on agar. Don't be fooled it isn't as thick as you think this is a magnification of a small area it's actually a really very fine white thin hyphae.

Note: the temperatures that this has been growing at has been between 86°F and 96°F.
Yet I've noticed granular growth on wood chips, along with fluffy.


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If you wanna ride, don't ride the white horse, if you wanna ride, ride the white pony

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #7385658 -

Wild! It grows up the glass!

Did you notice those rhizomorph look alikes down at the bottom near the agar?


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If you wanna ride, don't ride the white horse, if you wanna ride, ride the white pony

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #7385692 -

I've got a fully colonized jar of this stuff and it has bleached the wood in it.
Strange thing to lighten wood.
I had one jar get contaminated with a yellow bacterial contaminate.
but I didn't throw it out without checking the results, the morel had clumped together and stuck together the dirt and wood.
So it isn't a light growth in the soil but a heavy growth.
The hyphae have a specular reflectance that shows up slightly pinkish.
specular reflectance or irridescense? <-- spelled right?
Can't remember.


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If you wanna ride, don't ride the white horse, if you wanna ride, ride the white pony

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: AcidHorse]
    #7385790 -

Very kewl stuff AcidHorse! I did notice the very fine ultra thin almost spider web like growth and it smells like mushrooms. I hope I can get some fruits after all this hard work.

I now set up a new self contained rain gizmo and the forecast is 24 hours of rain followed by clear sunny day with temps in the upper 40s to mid to upper 50s.




















All help and suggestions appreciated!


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"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

Edited by The_Jackal (09/09/07 11:38 AM)

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #7388757 -

That morel Mycelium is some aggressive stuff!

The pictures below are after only one day in the fruiting environment!





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"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #7390917 -

Weather report:



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"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #7395462 -

awesome update jackal.......i emailed my thoughts on weather strategy to you.....best of luck dude!


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:greys:

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: greys]
    #7399646 -

greysRDbest said:
awesome update jackal.......i emailed my thoughts on weather strategy to you.....best of luck dude!


Thanks buddy!

The substrate is covered with fluffy cloud like formations, some almost an inch high! Wonder how or if these will convert into fruits. Keeping my fingers crossed!



I think was wrong about how the thermoelectric cooler worked with respect using it for providing air exchange, so added a cool mist into the mix to be for sure for sure.

Accordingly, the ultrasonic pumps up the RH as needed and the cool mist adds some air exchange. The morels need 6 to 8 FAEs per hour, so the cool mist will be running 1 minute on 5 minutes off for 10 FAEs per hour. If the cool mist is run all the time it raises the temp too high.

Here is today's weather report: Sunny and:



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"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #7402784 -

The myc is turning rust colored near the base of the cloud like formations. Hope this is a good sign!





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"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #7405080 -

hm that looks fascinating

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: vampirism]
    #7405198 -

Woah, cool! I can't wait to see how they develop.

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: bukujutsu]
    #7408283 -

Thanks, guys! Hopefully the mushroom gods will smile upon me!


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"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #7408727 -

hurry up damnit! my fingers are STILL crossed!! heh


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:greys:

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: greys]
    #7409754 -

A bit of a set back!

After receiving comments from a morel expert, it was noted that the extended mycelium clouds would not fruit and that the top soil casing layer was not a good idea as it is too clay like, which does not promote colonization. This would explain the cloud like structures.

He suggested peat moss with sand added, as needed, for a casing mix. After some research, however, came up with a peat and perlite casing mix at 80/20 by volume. Also, the same expert had noted that removing the nutrient source per the published procedures would produce defective fruit bodies, due to the lack of nutrients during the fruiting stage.

In view of his comments, I have extended the tray by about an inch and a half, mixed in the peat/perlite casing mix into the old casing layer along with the mycelium clouds, and added a nutrient tray of WBS underneath to supply further nutrients to the mycelium while the new casing layer colonizes.

Accordingly, will keep you posted!

Cheers!

Jackal


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"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #7412543 -

Just read this whole thread, nice work!

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: acneman]
    #7412743 -

acneman said:
Just read this whole thread, nice work!


Thanks!


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"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #7415718 -

just read everything .. very cool ideas and nice work !

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: orchidfanatic]
    #7426459 -

orchidfanatic said:
just read everything .. very cool ideas and nice work !


Thank you!


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"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #7476362 -


Some more nice close ups of the Morchella elata hyphae.


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If you wanna ride, don't ride the white horse, if you wanna ride, ride the white pony

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: AcidHorse]
    #7476386 -

One thing I'm puzzled by is that it seems to want to form some sort of pseudo-rhizomorphs


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If you wanna ride, don't ride the white horse, if you wanna ride, ride the white pony

Edited by AcidHorse (10/02/07 04:52 AM)

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: AcidHorse]
    #7476395 -

There is also a fanning out kind of pattern too.


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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: AcidHorse]
    #7476401 -

As you can see this jar is almost completely colonized by the loosely compact hyphae, yet there is no sclerotia.


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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: AcidHorse]
    #7476557 -

One thing I haven't seen in Jackal's method is:
1) creating a jar that has 80% grain or wheat berries with a layer of perforated foil with a layer of soil on top and a second perforated layer of foil and inverted on top of the substrate for feeding of the mycelial colonies which will form conidia and sclerotia on the surface.
2) the drying out to 45% soil moisture content, obviously they are meaning a condition similar to those that occur during the summertime, you know there are droughts. Yet the mycelium grows further downward to absorb the moisture that it can find. Top layers of soil dry considerably.
3) 12 on? 12 off? the photos at the MSU site show a photo with a note that says "leave lights on! Do not turn off"


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If you wanna ride, don't ride the white horse, if you wanna ride, ride the white pony

Edited by AcidHorse (10/02/07 07:22 AM)

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: AcidHorse]
    #7481749 -

AcidHorse said:
One thing I haven't seen in Jackal's method is:
1) creating a jar that has 80% grain or wheat berries with a layer of perforated foil with a layer of soil on top and a second perforated layer of foil and inverted on top of the substrate for feeding of the mycelial colonies which will form conidia and sclerotia on the surface.
2) the drying out to 45% soil moisture content, obviously they are meaning a condition similar to those that occur during the summertime, you know there are droughts. Yet the mycelium grows further downward to absorb the moisture that it can find. Top layers of soil dry considerably.
3) 12 on? 12 off? the photos at the MSU site show a photo with a note that says "leave lights on! Do not turn off"


Good progress AcidHorse! My extended tray is back in winter mode and will attempt fruiting with new casing shortly!

As far as the method, go back a few posts and see that it was based on some published methods by the mushroom people, patents, and others. In the sclerotia formation stage, rye grass and soil in a mycobag were inoculated to form sclerotia. In the substrate stage, the sclerotia was placed in a supersoil substrate tray that was fed from holes underneath with rye grass tray. The rye grass tray is later taken away, and the substrate then cased and put in winter mode. In the fruiting stage, the substrate tray is soaked simulating rain and then allowed to warm up simulating spring. The problem I have is that black morels fruit at low temps 50-60F and so had to modify the thermoelectric cooler to achieve same. It has been one long complicated process to say the least and nobody really can seem to help, as the commercial growers tend to keep such information secret. As far as light, some say morels are not light sensitive so at this point it is pure trial and error.

Below is are recent pics of my set up and the re-cased extended tray in winter mode at 44F.





Cheers!

Jackal


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"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #7481970 -

I just started reading and Im amazed thanx!!


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I came, I saw , I came back

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: Vegan]
    #7482121 -

Vegan said:
I just started reading and Im amazed thanx!!


Thanks!


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"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #7484161 -

Yeah I know Jackal, don't think I'm being skeptical, I'm just wanting to see a very close approximation to their patent and see similarities.
As for the light you may want to experiment with it, I think it may be a triggering factor that affects the nomadic hyphae that come from the sclerotia once casing is applied. The light may have an effect on it that might send it into the sexual cycle.


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If you wanna ride, don't ride the white horse, if you wanna ride, ride the white pony

Edited by AcidHorse (10/04/07 09:29 AM)

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: AcidHorse]
    #7486850 -

AcidHorse said:
Yeah I know Jackal, don't think I'm being skeptical, I'm just wanting to see a very close approximation to their patent and see similarities.
As for the light you may want to experiment with it, I think it may be a triggering factor that affects the nomadic hyphae that come from the sclerotia once casing is applied. The light may have an effect on it that might send it into the sexual cycle.


Good point, and there is light in nature nonetheless!


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"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #7555588 -

Quote:
Originally Posted by Workman
Some morel cultivation information in the Mycena News.

http://www.mssf.org/mnews/0705mn.pdf

Very kewl, info from above link! As for my experiment, it is languishing in winter mode in the cooler and I will try fruiting again soon!


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"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #7556457 -

i was wundering what happened?:dancing:


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:greys:

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: greys]
    #7574081 -

hmm yet the patent states a 1 cm deep nutrient poor substrate 25% sand 75% organic, preferably leached, cooked twice and strained. Then sit a mason jar with grain and a perforated liner on top of the substrate once it colonizes. On top means turned upside down. moisture shouldn't be excessive, preferably the level which soil would be found to have pulled fresh out of the bag.
Jackal those shrooms don't really like water, that's why they come up "excessive water". You're drowning them.


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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: AcidHorse]
    #7574098 -

You should be in the feeding stage, not winter yet.
I see no sclerotia.

The patent states the same methods used to create sclerotia in the jars parallels those for the trays. And visa versa.

so the jars should have a 25% sand 75% organic layer that is poor
and a layer that is all grain and rich.



--------------------
If you wanna ride, don't ride the white horse, if you wanna ride, ride the white pony

Edited by AcidHorse (10/29/07 07:14 PM)

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: AcidHorse]
    #7611613 -

AcidHorse said:
You should be in the feeding stage, not winter yet.
I see no sclerotia.

The patent states the same methods used to create sclerotia in the jars parallels those for the trays. And visa versa.

so the jars should have a 25% sand 75% organic layer that is poor
and a layer that is all grain and rich.




I am following the mushroom peoples procedure where you make the sclerotia first (go back a few pages for pics), then put that in nutrient poor substrate with feed tray underneath, followed by removal of feed tray, winter mode, simulated rain, and fruiting.


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"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #7615816 -

Yeah but you know they aren't the ones who came up with the idea.
That bunch just seems to be throwing out their own theory while trying to
get you to buy their supplies.
Besides the patent places the nutrient source on top of the nutrient poor, not
on the bottom. You never know it could be something as simple as that.

I have found small aggregates on the surface of the glass of my jars
recently. These could be sclerotia. The temps have been cooler and the hyphae
has gotten extremely dense and highly branched, then on the glass above the soil from a nomadic hypha a denser formation has occurred, not once but in five different locations above the soil and on the side on the glass. I suspect that no soil whatsoever represents absolutely no nutrients and it must have a need to form sclerotia. However I have noticed some super dense specks in the soil so its hard to say if those are sclerotia or dense mycelial hypha.


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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: AcidHorse]
    #7626680 -

AcidHorse said:
Yeah but you know they aren't the ones who came up with the idea.
That bunch just seems to be throwing out their own theory while trying to
get you to buy their supplies.
Besides the patent places the nutrient source on top of the nutrient poor, not
on the bottom. You never know it could be something as simple as that.

I have found small aggregates on the surface of the glass of my jars
recently. These could be sclerotia. The temps have been cooler and the hyphae
has gotten extremely dense and highly branched, then on the glass above the soil from a nomadic hypha a denser formation has occurred, not once but in five different locations above the soil and on the side on the glass. I suspect that no soil whatsoever represents absolutely no nutrients and it must have a need to form sclerotia. However I have noticed some super dense specks in the soil so its hard to say if those are sclerotia or dense mycelial hypha.


I think even with the patents, which I have read, there is no assurance of success. Probably requires lots of trial and error, as the peeps commercially growing these bad boys are going to keep any proven techniques a trade secret.


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"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #24786023 -

Sorry for dropping off the face of the earth. The morel mushroom experiment almost led to divorce. Since then, gotten into aquaponics, and now experimenting with growing mushrooms as part of an aquaponics system. Made another thread for that experiment.

Cheers

Jackal


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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #24788970 -

what a thread, glad it didnt end up with a divorce.

I for one would like to see how you incorporate mushrooms into aquaponics

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: my-mycelium]
    #24794458 -

my-mycelium said:
what a thread, glad it didnt end up with a divorce.

I for one would like to see how you incorporate mushrooms into aquaponics


Thanks and here you go:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24762514


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"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #25067716 -

So once again the morels are taunting me. This time will try to see if employing an aquaponic flood and drain soil wicking bed along with natural plants and soil with microbes native to the rufo morel makes a difference.



Perhaps the success with the aquaponic oyster mushrooms will bring me luck.

Cheers!

Jackal


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"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs

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Re: Morel and morel excited! *DELETED* [Re: The_Jackal]
    #25082233 -

Post deleted by EastBayRay

Reason for deletion: b

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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: EastBayRay]
    #25093148 -

EastBayRay said:
I've been finding blacks really early in my area near dead and dying birch trees. By really early I mean a month earlier than the yellows.


Want to go hunting, problem is nobody that knows where they grow are willing to share. :frown: Trying to grow them aquaponically in soil is the next experiment. :smile:

Cheers!

Carlos


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