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InvisibleThe_Jackal
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Morel and morel excited!
    #6790457 - 04/15/07 03:12 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Thanks to Workman and greysRDbest there are some great threads on topia regarding morel cultivation.

Based on this inspiration and the programmable greenhouse (http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/6783616/an/0/page/0), will attempt an indoor PC controlled morel grow.

Have just about everything needed, except a way to control the simulated heavy rain.

Then the light bulb went off. Why not use the upper shelf of the greenhouse to hold an upper water reservoir and the lower plastic container as a lower water reservoir? Then, by adding a water pump at the bottom reservoir and adjusting the size of the holes in the upper reservoir one could program via the pump the desired inches of rain per hour. One could further add a filter between the collection portion and pump portion of the lower reservoir to keep the recycled rain water clean of any possible contams.



Helpful info:

A Black Morel Culture Syringe (Morchella elata) is available from Sporeworks.

Details of indoor morel cultivation:

http://www.thefarm.org/mushroom/morel.html

http://www.mykoweb.com/articles/morel_cultivation.html

Here is a more detailed version of the process described in the above article:

http://www.bio.net/bionet/mm/mycology/1995-July/002438.html

Here are the patents listed in the article:

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?u=%2Fnetahtml%2Fsrchnum.htm&Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&r=1&l=50&f=G&d=PALL&s1=4594809.PN.&OS=PN/4594809&RS=PN/4594809

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?u=%2Fnetahtml%2Fsrchnum.htm&Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&r=1&l=50&f=G&d=PALL&s1=4757640.PN.&OS=PN/4757640&RS=PN/4757640

Comprehensive study of morels:

http://www.fs.fed.us/pnw/publications/gtr710/

Sure would be nice to break out the Dom Pérignon, if one could pull off indoor morel cultivation!



Edited by The_Jackal (04/15/07 03:26 PM)


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InvisibleThe_Jackal
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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #6793303 - 04/16/07 03:17 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Found out that I should be using the big buck ($125 versus $18) morel culture syringes for the morel experiments. Ouch!

Also, besides the nearly impossible odds of success, the fruiting temps being 50-60F poses a further problem with summer coming up, so looks like I will have to add some a/c control into the equation.

I may have found a solution to the cooling problem using a vortex tube (http://www.airtxinternational.com/how_vortex_tubes_work.php) and a 120vac electric air compressor. The air compressor would be connected to a computer controlled switch used to turn on and off the compressor based on temperature. This technique could also be used for other cold loving species applications.



If I do pull this off, which seem very unlikely, I will owe myself a big bottle of Dom Pérignon.



--------------------
"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs


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Offlineexagram
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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #6793402 - 04/16/07 04:19 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

A very exciting project indeed! I'd be interested in seeing the end products, and how they compare to commercially available morels.

O tempora, o morels. :rolleyes:


--------------------
Raoul Duke: What Leary took down with him was the central illusion of a whole lifestyle that he helped create - a generation of permanent cripples, failed seekers, who never understood the essential old-mystic fallacy of the acid culture: the desperate assumption that somebody, or at least some force, is tending the light at the end of the tunnel.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: exagram]
    #6793616 - 04/16/07 06:51 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

You can get a self contained AC unit at your local home megacenter to use for your FC. It's what I do to grow edibles. Duct the supply and return into your greenhouse, and run a dryer vent hose from the condenser output to the outside. I keep my edibles FC at 58F.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
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Offlineeltrkbrd
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Registered: 02/23/07
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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #6793627 - 04/16/07 07:02 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Hi RR,

I'm interested in growing edibles as well, especially Reishi mushrooms.

Do you have more information on your setup?

Can I use monotubs? The temperature where I'm growing is 75 Degrees Fahrenheit and the RH is 60%.

-TIA


--------------------
My way of giving back- Thanks Shroomery...
A For Newbs by Newbs Cultivation Resource Journal: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/6748262/an/0/page/0


Edited by eltrkbrd (04/16/07 07:05 AM)


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OfflinePowRGnome
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Registered: 04/01/05
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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #6793725 - 04/16/07 08:22 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Good luck man, I've never heard people say growing morels indoors is easy. I've been wondering myself lately about using atomized spary nozzles on a timer in an FC, seems like a good way to deliver some water to the casing layer. And ruin your floors.


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InvisibleThe_Jackal
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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #6793829 - 04/16/07 09:33 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
You can get a self contained AC unit at your local home megacenter to use for your FC. It's what I do to grow edibles. Duct the supply and return into your greenhouse, and run a dryer vent hose from the condenser output to the outside. I keep my edibles FC at 58F.
RR




Thanks for the tip! I have a portable air conditioner unit that I could adapt. I am hoping that with the vortex solution I can get temps down to the refrigeration 30-40F levels (I also could always use a manly air compressor).


--------------------
"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs


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InvisibleThe_Jackal
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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: PowRGnome]
    #6793836 - 04/16/07 09:36 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

PowRGnome said:
Good luck man, I've never heard people say growing morels indoors is easy. I've been wondering myself lately about using atomized spary nozzles on a timer in an FC, seems like a good way to deliver some water to the casing layer. And ruin your floors.




Thanks, you definitely will need a drip pan or plastic covered floor!


--------------------
"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs


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InvisibleThe_Jackal
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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: exagram]
    #6793839 - 04/16/07 09:39 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

exagram said:
A very exciting project indeed! I'd be interested in seeing the end products, and how they compare to commercially available morels.

O tempora, o morels. :rolleyes:




Thanks, take a look at this morel indoor/outdoor taste test movie!:

http://vvi.onstreammedia.com/cgi-bin/visearch?user=pbs-saf&template=template.html&squery=About+All+You+Can+Eat&page=2


--------------------
"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs


Edited by The_Jackal (04/16/07 09:43 AM)


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InvisibleThe_Jackal
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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #6795429 - 04/16/07 05:36 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Got some positive feedback from some vortex application engineers and it seems that the 50-60F range is doable, and maybe even 30-40F!

This at least gives me some hope.

As a fallback, as RR suggested, I can rig my portable a/c unit to the greenhouse, which he has done, to get into the 60F range.


--------------------
"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs


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Offlineeltrkbrd
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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #6797000 - 04/16/07 11:05 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

How much will a setup like that cost with the vortex and all?


--------------------
My way of giving back- Thanks Shroomery...
A For Newbs by Newbs Cultivation Resource Journal: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/6748262/an/0/page/0


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OfflineJeremy_Davis
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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #6797056 - 04/16/07 11:18 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

The_Jackal said:
Quote:

exagram said:
A very exciting project indeed! I'd be interested in seeing the end products, and how they compare to commercially available morels.

O tempora, o morels. :rolleyes:




Thanks, take a look at this morel indoor/outdoor taste test movie!:

http://vvi.onstreammedia.com/cgi-bin/visearch?user=pbs-saf&template=template.html&squery=About+All+You+Can+Eat&page=2




excellent video! I really enjoyed watching that. I couldn't believe that he liked the cultivated morel over the wild. That's quite a coup for DNP (that grows the morels). I know the regular consensus is that the cultivated morels lack the taste of the wild...

In fact I belong to another message board ( a yahoo group - NAMA cultivation group) where on of the members fruited some morels from an outdoor bed. He said his morels paled in comparison to the wild ones, and I think he even went so far as to say they tasted like cardboard...


--------------------
Jeremy Davis
Educational Concerns for Hunger Organization, Inc.
Check out the ECHO mushroom blog page to see our lab, growing facility, and more-www.echotech.org/greta


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OfflineJeremy_Davis
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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #6797087 - 04/16/07 11:28 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

The_Jackal said:
Found out that I should be using the big buck ($125 versus $18) morel culture syringes for the morel experiments. Ouch!





No, you're good, I just posted in another thread about this. I've seen a side by side thread running a Stamets $150 licensed strain of morel against the $18 Sporeworks strain. The poster said that the Sporeworks strain way outperformed Stamets strain.

Check it out here's what Brainbreath (the grower at the nook) said;
"I forgot to say that between a sporeworks culture, some cultures from stamets, and some wild clones I took, the sporeworks outperforms the rest. The ones I bought from stamets barely even produce sclerotia At $150 a culture it should do alot better, IMO. I need to call 'em and bitch about it.... "

From here:http://www.thenook.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=36717&st=30
Light and Love,
JD


--------------------
Jeremy Davis
Educational Concerns for Hunger Organization, Inc.
Check out the ECHO mushroom blog page to see our lab, growing facility, and more-www.echotech.org/greta


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InvisibleThe_Jackal
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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: Jeremy_Davis]
    #6798385 - 04/17/07 05:51 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Jeremy_Davis said:
Quote:

The_Jackal said:
Found out that I should be using the big buck ($125 versus $18) morel culture syringes for the morel experiments. Ouch!





No, you're good, I just posted in another thread about this. I've seen a side by side thread running a Stamets $150 licensed strain of morel against the $18 Sporeworks strain. The poster said that the Sporeworks strain way outperformed Stamets strain.

Check it out here's what Brainbreath (the grower at the nook) said;
"I forgot to say that between a sporeworks culture, some cultures from stamets, and some wild clones I took, the sporeworks outperforms the rest. The ones I bought from stamets barely even produce sclerotia At $150 a culture it should do alot better, IMO. I need to call 'em and bitch about it.... "

From here:http://www.thenook.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=36717&st=30
Light and Love,
JD




Thanks!


--------------------
"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs


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InvisibleThe_Jackal
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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: eltrkbrd]
    #6798399 - 04/17/07 06:13 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

eltrkbrd said:
How much will a setup like that cost with the vortex and all?




It's very expensive (small vortex tube kit ~250, 1.5 HP air compressor ~$200), and here are the latest plans from a post at topia):

"Propose a solution of using an insulated plastic cooler, with white elwire (http://www.elbestbuy.com/meleofretogo.html) lighting, and vortex tube cooling (http://www.exair.com/Cultures/en-US/Primary+Navigation/Products/Vortex+Tubes+and+Spot+Cooling/Vortex+Tubes/Controlling+Temperature+and+Flow+in+a+Vortex+Tube.htm), to create a grow chamber with with capabilities of cooling down to the 30-60F range required by some species. Add a computer controlled cool mist, ultrasonic , fan, etc., and your ready for performing automated cold weather species experiments.

The vortex tube is connected to a small 120 VAC 1.5 HP air compressor to bring the cooler down to the desired temperature. The vortex tube can also be used as a heat source and with a few solenoids could possibly provide a complete heating, cooling, and FAE solution."



Edited by The_Jackal (04/17/07 06:17 AM)


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InvisibleThe_Jackal
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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: Jeremy_Davis]
    #6798420 - 04/17/07 06:32 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Jeremy_Davis said:
Quote:

The_Jackal said:
Quote:

exagram said:
A very exciting project indeed! I'd be interested in seeing the end products, and how they compare to commercially available morels.

O tempora, o morels. :rolleyes:




Thanks, take a look at this morel indoor/outdoor taste test movie!:

http://vvi.onstreammedia.com/cgi-bin/visearch?user=pbs-saf&template=template.html&squery=About+All+You+Can+Eat&page=2




excellent video! I really enjoyed watching that. I couldn't believe that he liked the cultivated morel over the wild. That's quite a coup for DNP (that grows the morels). I know the regular consensus is that the cultivated morels lack the taste of the wild...

In fact I belong to another message board ( a yahoo group - NAMA cultivation group) where on of the members fruited some morels from an outdoor bed. He said his morels paled in comparison to the wild ones, and I think he even went so far as to say they tasted like cardboard...




Very nice set up there at http://www.echotech.org/greta/.  That operation could probably be computer automated, if that were ever needed.


--------------------
"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs


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OfflineWorkmanV
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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #6800090 - 04/17/07 04:47 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

You might consider an upright freezer and a Ranco digital temperature control.

http://pivo.northernbrewer.com/nbstore/action/search-do?searchTerm=ranco&x=0&y=0

A fridge could be used but an upright freezer doesn't have the seperate compartments for frozen and refrigerated foods.

You can get used freezers for under $100, sometimes free and a Ranco temp controller is only $99. Add some lights humidification and air exchange on timers and you are good to go.


--------------------
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The Spore Works
Exotic Spore Supply
Reinvesting 25% of Sales Towards Basic Research and Species Identification :amanitajar:


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OfflineJeremy_Davis
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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: The_Jackal]
    #6800710 - 04/17/07 07:07 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:



Very nice set up there at http://www.echotech.org/greta/. That operation could probably be computer automated, if that were ever needed.




Thanks man, I have a lot more pics, and one day when I get off my lazy butt, I'll start a new thread on all of it...

Also the computer automation is cool, but not for the ECHO project. We're trying to work in conditions somewhat similar to fruiting rooms that you may find in Zimbabwe, Ghana, or Venezuela, which are more minimalistic.

All the mushrooms we've grown at ECHO are grown with virtually no atmospheric controls other than a misting system. We just grow different species of mushrooms at different times of year. Besides South Florida is great for year-round growing of all kinds of crops. It only gets down to freezing temps on a handful of days each year. I have been know to cheat and throw one of those portable heaters in my growing house on those ridiculously cold nights. But really the cold for the mushrooms just slows the growth. if it is only intermittent cold, no big deal...just like refrigerating spawn, I'd guess...
Light and love,
JD


--------------------
Jeremy Davis
Educational Concerns for Hunger Organization, Inc.
Check out the ECHO mushroom blog page to see our lab, growing facility, and more-www.echotech.org/greta


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OfflineJeremy_Davis
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Registered: 04/22/05
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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: Workman]
    #6800721 - 04/17/07 07:08 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Workman said:
You might consider an upright freezer and a Ranco digital temperature control.

http://pivo.northernbrewer.com/nbstore/action/search-do?searchTerm=ranco&x=0&y=0

A fridge could be used but an upright freezer doesn't have the seperate compartments for frozen and refrigerated foods.

You can get used freezers for under $100, sometimes free and a Ranco temp controller is only $99. Add some lights humidification and air exchange on timers and you are good to go.




I love this place. Great idea!


--------------------
Jeremy Davis
Educational Concerns for Hunger Organization, Inc.
Check out the ECHO mushroom blog page to see our lab, growing facility, and more-www.echotech.org/greta


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InvisibleThe_Jackal
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Re: Morel and morel excited! [Re: Jeremy_Davis]
    #6802532 - 04/18/07 02:30 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Jeremy_Davis said:
Quote:



Very nice set up there at http://www.echotech.org/greta/. That operation could probably be computer automated, if that were ever needed.




Thanks man, I have a lot more pics, and one day when I get off my lazy butt, I'll start a new thread on all of it...

Also the computer automation is cool, but not for the ECHO project. We're trying to work in conditions somewhat similar to fruiting rooms that you may find in Zimbabwe, Ghana, or Venezuela, which are more minimalistic.

All the mushrooms we've grown at ECHO are grown with virtually no atmospheric controls other than a misting system. We just grow different species of mushrooms at different times of year. Besides South Florida is great for year-round growing of all kinds of crops. It only gets down to freezing temps on a handful of days each year. I have been know to cheat and throw one of those portable heaters in my growing house on those ridiculously cold nights. But really the cold for the mushrooms just slows the growth. if it is only intermittent cold, no big deal...just like refrigerating spawn, I'd guess...
Light and love,
JD




Open my mouth and insert foot! Good points. I think I just must like things very complicated.


--------------------
"The only easy day was yesterday!"--Navy SEALs


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