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growing morel sclerotia * 1
    #8557363 -

Hello everybody,


since I started growing edibles about a year ago, I am interested in morel-cultivation. So I spent lots of nights searching the net for information on how to grow them. Over time, a plan grew, growing sclerotia indoors to later bury them outdoors in plant-pots and to see what will happen next spring.

About two weeks ago I received two petri dishes with Morchella esculenta mycelium and inoculated 12 jars immediately. After three days, there was growth. The mycelium grew fine and almost linear and I was amazed by the speed of 2cm per day. Now the mycelium got slower and turns yellow and brownish. The smaller jars are fully colonized and in most of the jars, tiny white lumps of short mycelium appear, turning orange and brown after a few days.

Now I wonder if these are already sclerotia or if I am growing a degenerated morel-mycelium. I did not expect things to happen that fast, so I would be more than happy if anybody experimenting with morels could give me his or her opinion.


Here are some images:

Mycelium after 4 and 5 days


tiny white lumps after a week


after 8 and 11 days


one jar with extremely dense growth (11 days), the white stuff at the bottom is new, it appeared at the place, where colonization started.


Greetings,
Mycelio

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Re: growing morel sclerotia [Re: Mycelio] * 1
    #8636376 -

Those are developing nicely.
The sclerotia are/were like how mine were.

Some will turn black too. This means its mature.

Sclerotia can show up in at least 1.5 weeks depending on how well your jars have been prepared.

A small amount of yeast nutrient with food grade urea will help them out a lot too, it gives them nitrogen. Soybean meal gives them protein. And from there you can experiment.

In about 4 weeks you should have very large masses.

Your grain layer should also have been supplemented with an antibiotic to prevent any possibility of
a yeast contamination, if the grain layer ferments, the ethyl alcohol will inhibit growth.


--------------------
If you wanna ride, don't ride the white horse, if you wanna ride, ride the white pony

Edited by AcidHorse (07/15/08 04:27 AM)

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Re: growing morel sclerotia [Re: AcidHorse] * 1
    #8637756 -

I would love to know more about this


--------------------
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FULLY AUTOMATIC!! 12-Pot Multi Grow Hydroponic System for Trade.


Download PSX ISOs

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Re: growing morel sclerotia [Re: Mycelio] * 2
    #8638048 -
Log in to view attachment

They can be grown but the whole process is guarded



You may want to contact these folks at Diversified Natural Products and Michigan State University. They might give you more information:
Gary Mills, (231) 757-9241, millls@dnpco.com; or Sue Nichols, University Relations, (517) 353-8942, nichols@msu.edu
(*Mills holds the patent on the process to grow morels indoors)

For more info there is an old article in Shroomery News:
Biotech brings mushroom hunt indoors

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Re: growing morel sclerotia [Re: AcidHorse] * 1
    #8638485 -

Thanks for your input AcidHorse, I'm glad to hear my sclerotia develop OK. By now I see them in 9 out of 12 jars, the other jars show only dense mycelium.

Two weeks later, I inoculated another 6 jars with less success. I guess I waited too long, there were already white lumps forming on the agar. Now only 2 jars are showing fine mycelium and sclerotia.

One strange thing I noticed, is that small jars seem to work better than big ones. 
Anyway, as soon as my sclerotia turn dark brown or black, I will try to grow more from them. My next goal is to grow bigger ones, as the current sclerotia are only a few millimeters in diameter.


Regarding nutritients:
This seems to be a complex area. Besides nitrogen, phosphorus and potassium, morels contain high doses of iron, zinc, manganese and copper. I already used ashes and herbs like nettle, next time I will also add coffee grounds, so they find enough of everything.


Greetings, Carsten

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Re: growing morel sclerotia [Re: Mycelio] * 1
    #8642535 -

what was the substrate used in the jars?


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Re: growing morel sclerotia [Re: metalhead] * 1
    #8643007 -

think u could send me a lc of that morel strain? i'd be willing to trade somthing for it.


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Re: growing morel sclerotia [Re: metalhead] * 1
    #8643443 -

Hey Metalhead,


sorry, but the mycelium in my petri dishes degenerated quickly and got contaminated.
Just found dried black morels in a supermarket. They should be a good source for spores.

The mixture I used for the first experiment was half grain and half wood chips (beechwood) plus additives.

Grain part:
40% birdseed (millet)
40% annual rye grass seeds
20% cannabis seed

Additives:
dog food (vegetarian cookies with garlic)
activated charcoal
gypsum
eggshell (calcium carbonate)
potassium carbonate
cigarette ashes

I would also recommend to add yeast extract and coffee grounds. Unfortunately I forgot to add it.

The jars were filled half and a nutritient free layer was added. I used those small stones made of burnt clay, which are used for flower pots.



For the second time I tried brown rice together with a mixture of straw, hay, alfalfa hay, nettle, ground-elder, wood chips, the same additives as above and no stones on top. As the mycelium already degenerated, only one of those jars produces a lot of sclerotia above the substrate on the glass surface.


Carsten

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Re: growing morel sclerotia [Re: veggie] * 1
    #8643530 -

Hey veggie,


thanks, I know about Ower, Mills and others, also read their patents. To be honest, I don't believe you can follow their description and grow morels.
I am looking for a simple way to grow sclerotia and to fruit them outdoors like here:
http://green-24.de/forum/ftopic1647.html
(German plant forum, just look at the pictures...)


Carsten

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Re: growing morel sclerotia [Re: Mycelio] * 1
    #8643808 -

Mycelio said:
Hey Metalhead,


sorry, but the mycelium in my petri dishes degenerated quickly and got contaminated.
Just found dried black morels in a supermarket. They should be a good source for spores.

The mixture I used for the first experiment was half grain and half wood chips (beechwood) plus additives.

Grain part:
40% birdseed (millet)
40% annual rye grass seeds
20% cannabis seed

Additives:
dog food (vegetarian cookies with garlic)
activated charcoal
gypsum
eggshell (calcium carbonate)
potassium carbonate
cigarette ashes

I would also recommend to add yeast extract and coffee grounds. Unfortunately I forgot to add it.

The jars were filled half and a nutritient free layer was added. I used those small stones made of burnt clay, which are used for flower pots.



For the second time I tried brown rice together with a mixture of straw, hay, alfalfa hay, nettle, ground-elder, wood chips, the same additives as above and no stones on top. As the mycelium already degenerated, only one of those jars produces a lot of sclerotia above the substrate on the glass surface.


Carsten


thanks and i sent an email to gary mills a little while ago requesting info about the process. not expecting much, but then again you never know:grin:I was sure to word it just right


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Re: growing morel sclerotia [Re: metalhead] * 1
    #8645649 -

Hi Carsten,
hope this thread on FreeSporePrints.org can help:

http://www.freesporeprints.org/smf/index.php?topic=124.0

I wait news :smile:
Fabio

ps. yes those are sclerotia, when you pick them are similar to little rocks size 1 millimeter.

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Re: growing morel sclerotia [Re: FreeSporePrints] * 1
    #8646414 -

Thanks Fabio, that thread gave me some inspiration about what the proper food for morels could be.
I only wonder how large a morel will grow, if the sclerotium is so small. If I get them to fruit, will the mushrooms have the same size? Micro morels from micro sclerotia?

Anyway, I am glad I got some sclerotia at all. For those, who like to read more, here are a few additional links:


Carsten

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Re: growing morel sclerotia [Re: Mycelio] * 1
    #8647182 -

Mycelio said:
Hey Metalhead,


sorry, but the mycelium in my petri dishes degenerated quickly and got contaminated.
Just found dried black morels in a supermarket. They should be a good source for spores.

The mixture I used for the first experiment was half grain and half wood chips (beechwood) plus additives.

Grain part:
40% birdseed (millet)
40% annual rye grass seeds
20% cannabis seed

Additives:
dog food (vegetarian cookies with garlic)
activated charcoal
gypsum
eggshell (calcium carbonate)
potassium carbonate
cigarette ashes

I would also recommend to add yeast extract and coffee grounds. Unfortunately I forgot to add it.

The jars were filled half and a nutritient free layer was added. I used those small stones made of burnt clay, which are used for flower pots.



For the second time I tried brown rice together with a mixture of straw, hay, alfalfa hay, nettle, ground-elder, wood chips, the same additives as above and no stones on top. As the mycelium already degenerated, only one of those jars produces a lot of sclerotia above the substrate on the glass surface.


Carsten


No no no.

Grain is nutrient rich.
Wood chips is nutrient rich.
sphagnum is nutrient rich.
Agar is nutrient rich.
Agar is algae, algae is nutrient rich.
peat moss is nutrient rich.
potting soil is nutrient rich.
Rice hulls are nutrient rich.
The dust in the house which is composed of human dead skin, well that is nutrient rich.
hint hint hint hint.


--------------------
If you wanna ride, don't ride the white horse, if you wanna ride, ride the white pony

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Re: growing morel sclerotia [Re: AcidHorse] * 1
    #8647484 -

In some of the jars I have very dense and strong mycelium, but no sclerotia at all. So I was always wondering if my mixtures were too rich on nutritients.

But then what is nutritient poor?
Sand and stones?
Do you think about bark mulch and autumn leaves?


Carsten

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Re: growing morel sclerotia [Re: Mycelio] * 1
    #8647620 -

Mycelio said:
In some of the jars I have very dense and strong mycelium, but no sclerotia at all. So I was always wondering if my mixtures were too rich on nutritients.

But then what is nutritient poor?
Sand and stones?
Do you think about bark mulch and autumn leaves?


Carsten


Well i was doing some research on that place in michigan and i found a little somthing they use a mixture of decomposed pine bark and cooked oats mixed with soil.....


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Re: growing morel sclerotia [Re: metalhead] * 1
    #8647807 -

do you think you could form sclorotia in the same manner used for p.mexicana?


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Re: growing morel sclerotia [Re: FreeSporePrints] * 1
    #8647910 -

FreeSporePrints said:
Hi Carsten,
hope this thread on FreeSporePrints.org can help:

http://www.freesporeprints.org/smf/index.php?topic=124.0

I wait news :smile:
Fabio

ps. yes those are sclerotia, when you pick them are similar to little rocks size 1 millimeter.


did that person grow those indoors?and can someone translate?


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Re: growing morel sclerotia [Re: metalhead] * 1
    #8648293 -

Pine bark and oat sounds interesting.

Unfortunately, I have never grown Ps. mexicana, so I have no idea about the process, especially how to grow large sclerotia. There may be a connection. I read that R. Ower had grown sclerotia forming psilocybes, before having success with morels.

Carsten

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Re: growing morel sclerotia [Re: metalhead] * 1
    #8650254 -

metalhead said:
FreeSporePrints said:
Hi Carsten,
hope this thread on FreeSporePrints.org can help:

http://www.freesporeprints.org/smf/index.php?topic=124.0

I wait news :smile:
Fabio

ps. yes those are sclerotia, when you pick them are similar to little rocks size 1 millimeter.


did that person grow those indoors?and can someone translate?


No, he just tried to grow indoor and gor micro sclerotia.

@Mycelio:

Quote:
I only wonder how large a morel will grow, if the sclerotium is so small. If I get them to fruit, will the mushrooms have the same size? Micro morels from micro sclerotia?


I can't answer you but i believe sclerotium are small because is and artificial environment. I don't know if hundreds of micro sclerotia can give origin to a fruitbody.

Fabio

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Re: growing morel sclerotia [Re: FreeSporePrints] * 1
    #8650988 -

FreeSporePrints said:
metalhead said:
FreeSporePrints said:
Hi Carsten,
hope this thread on FreeSporePrints.org can help:

http://www.freesporeprints.org/smf/index.php?topic=124.0

I wait news :smile:
Fabio

ps. yes those are sclerotia, when you pick them are similar to little rocks size 1 millimeter.


did that person grow those indoors?and can someone translate?


No, he just tried to grow indoor and gor micro sclerotia.

@Mycelio:

Quote:
I only wonder how large a morel will grow, if the sclerotium is so small. If I get them to fruit, will the mushrooms have the same size? Micro morels from micro sclerotia?


I can't answer you but i believe sclerotium are small because is and artificial environment. I don't know if hundreds of micro sclerotia can give origin to a fruitbody.

Fabio


yeah i'm going to do more research on it.


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Re: growing morel sclerotia [Re: Mycelio]
    #8651261 -

Mycelio said:
In some of the jars I have very dense and strong mycelium, but no sclerotia at all. So I was always wondering if my mixtures were too rich on nutritients.

But then what is nutritient poor?
Sand and stones?
Do you think about bark mulch and autumn leaves?


Carsten


Bark mulch? autumn leaves? Of course those are nutrient rich.

As for the other, isn't it obvious? chemically? elementally of course.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=laTL5dclJkE&feature=related

&feature=related

http://forums.mycotopia.net/fungi-growing-edible-medicinal-magic-mushrooms/36900-experienced-morel-cultivators.html

But regardless of the nutrient poor; if you finally understand, there must be some microscopic trace amount of nutrient to supply it with the raw material to build tissues or cells, just so it can reach a location of larger amounts of food.

Edited by AcidHorse (07/18/08 02:09 PM)

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Re: growing morel sclerotia [Re: AcidHorse]
    #8651777 -

Oh, you are speaking about the two layers. Then it is clear to me. I already used a mineral and nutritient free layer in my first jars. One morel strain produces sclerotia only in the mineral layer, the other one prefers the top layer, but also does sclerotia in the food layer.
The other jars do not perform so well. I blamed it on degenerated mycelium, but perhaps it's caused by the missing mineral layer. Though there is one jar, where the inside above the food is covered with tiny sclerotia.

Morels are weird...

I could bury some mycelium in a friends garden in sandy soil, near a compost pile. Might be worth a try.


Carsten

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Re: growing morel sclerotia [Re: Mycelio]
    #8651884 -

Mycelio said:
Oh, you are speaking about the two layers. Then it is clear to me. I already used a mineral and nutritient free layer in my first jars. One morel strain produces sclerotia only in the mineral layer, the other one prefers the top layer, but also does sclerotia in the food layer.
The other jars do not perform so well. I blamed it on degenerated mycelium, but perhaps it's caused by the missing mineral layer. Though there is one jar, where the inside above the food is covered with tiny sclerotia.

Morels are weird...

I could bury some mycelium in a friends garden in sandy soil, near a compost pile. Might be worth a try.


Carsten


They all do sclerotia in the same way. Its just that you have encountered situations that lead to special circumstances. I have Disciotis venosa done the same way and it forms sclerotia in the nutrient poor layer that is as yellow as urine.

Degenerate mycelium? no. Sometimes bacteria can survive the cooking or maybe a yeast can get through the filters and once its active in the grain layer it will ferment the sugars and create ethyl alcohol which will inhibit the growth. Or even high levels of moisture in the jars can inhibit growth.
If its saturated there's no way oxygen can exist in the soil in the amounts the fungus needs.


--------------------
If you wanna ride, don't ride the white horse, if you wanna ride, ride the white pony

Edited by AcidHorse (07/18/08 04:37 PM)

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Re: growing morel sclerotia [Re: metalhead]
    #8692261 -

hows it comin along?


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Re: growing morel sclerotia [Re: metalhead]
    #8696030 -

Well, after ca. seven weeks, I see sclerotia in nine out of twelve jars. About five weeks ago I did ten more. There, four showed no growth at all, from the others, I have two with sclerotia.

Some turned brown already,


others need longer.


This is a tiny jar with only rice and additives, no nutritient poor layer on top:


And here's one with strong mycelium, but no sclerotia:


It looks like I have another month to find out how to proceed.


Carsten

Edited by Mycelio (07/31/08 11:02 AM)

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Re: growing morel sclerotia [Re: Mycelio]
    #8697286 -

r u going to do indoor grow or outdoor?


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Re: growing morel sclerotia [Re: metalhead]
    #8697650 -

Sclerotia indoor, fruiting outdoor.

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Re: growing morel sclerotia [Re: Mycelio]
    #8705852 -

Mycelio said:
Well, after ca. seven weeks, I see sclerotia in nine out of twelve jars. About five weeks ago I did ten more. There, four showed no growth at all, from the others, I have two with sclerotia.

Some turned brown already,


others need longer.


This is a tiny jar with only rice and additives, no nutritient poor layer on top:




That's why the sclerotia are growing on the glass on the sides of the jar. That's essentially
nutrient poor, nothing around it. But that is fascinating that it actually did so well on the sides,
because usually they won't.

I'd like to try to use ground up microwavable styro foam as a nutrient poor layer and see how well
that would work.

Quote:
And here's one with strong mycelium, but no sclerotia:


It looks like I have another month to find out how to proceed.


Carsten



--------------------
If you wanna ride, don't ride the white horse, if you wanna ride, ride the white pony

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Re: growing morel sclerotia [Re: AcidHorse]
    #8706851 -

It is only one of my two yellow morel strains, which forms sclerotia on the glass sides. High moisture and no holes in the lid probably helped. The other strain does a few in the grain layer.

I wonder why the mycelium freaks out so often. In five jars there is super dense mycelium, but no sclerotia at all. Next time I will try to make the grain layer less nutritious and inoculate the nutrient poor layer.


Carsten

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Re: growing morel sclerotia [Re: Mycelio]
    #8714336 -

i have had my best results with vermiculite as the sclerotia base. with a ph range of between 7.5 and 8.3, or there are several patented methods located on the internet or in some fungi cultivation manuals.
good luck!

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Gourmet and Medicinal Mushrooms
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