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What I've Learned From Watching Penn & Teller's "Bullshit!"
    #6651058 -

Lots of the episodes are extremely entertaining and debunks things that bother me. Big Brother, the Drug War, Talking to the Dead, Creationism, etc... Other things have been informative on subjects that I wasn't 100% sure on, such as Alternative Medicine (some obvious B.S., but not all), the Death Penalty (was against to begin with, but learned a lot about the subjects), the legal status of Prostitution, etc...

But I think the episodes I've learned the most from are the ones I went into that Penn & Teller's positions made me uncomfortable. Recycling, for instance. Or the Endangered Species Act. Really, it's not about the specific issues, but just that questioning things that you think you know is an uneasy process, but you're better for it afterwards.

Same thing with watching Carl Sagan's Cosmos series, except in that case, Sagan dealt with things that I couldn't even imagine, and that the truth is often more beautiful & amazing than what you may actually believe in. Check out the Drake Equation, a statistically analysis of the existence of aliens. Of course, Sagan is the first to point out that there either is, or isn't. Doesn't matter what the statistics might say. But realizing the size of the universe, number of galaxies, stars, and so forth... it's just an amazing experience. Even when you know about those things, learning the details puts it on a whole other level.

Basically, it's better to challenge yourself and face things that make you uncomfortable for the reasons listed.


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The very nature of experience is ineffable; it transcends cognitive thought and intellectualized analysis. To be without experience is to be without an emotional knowledge of what the experience translates into. The desire for the understanding of what life is made of is the motivation that drives us all. Without it, in fear of the experiences what life can hold is among the greatest contradictions; to live in fear of death while not being alive.


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Re: What I've Learned From Watching Penn & Teller's "Bullshit!" *DELETED* [Re: Twirling]
    #6651091 -

Post deleted by pB0t

Reason for deletion: .


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Re: What I've Learned From Watching Penn & Teller's "Bullshit!" [Re: pB0t]
    #6651139 -

What I've found is that they tend to dispute certain claims while making it entertaining. But they don't take people out of context, or misrepresent things (other than 2nd hand smoke research, which they've admit they were wrong about, and IMO, downplaying Global Warming a bit).

About the only major compliant I have with the show is that they take on the easier nutjobs, rather than people who might be able to debate a position well. However, that's largely because they focus on the people making extraordinary claims without evidence. They often point out the more complex arguments and state they either agree with them (such as being against cruelty to animals in the P.E.T.A. episode), or that the details are worth debating further (like the episode on "Environmental Hysteria" where they point out the hysteria, not countering environmental science).


--------------------
The very nature of experience is ineffable; it transcends cognitive thought and intellectualized analysis. To be without experience is to be without an emotional knowledge of what the experience translates into. The desire for the understanding of what life is made of is the motivation that drives us all. Without it, in fear of the experiences what life can hold is among the greatest contradictions; to live in fear of death while not being alive.


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Re: What I've Learned From Watching Penn & Teller's "Bullshit!" [Re: Twirling]
    #6651930 -

the episodes I've learned the most from are the ones I went into that Penn & Teller's positions made me uncomfortable

That's usually the case in life. The more uncomfortable some demonstrable truth makes you, the more likely you've become emotionally attached to some idea that may not be true.

When something makes me uncomfortable I sit up and pay attention because in my experience, that's when I'm about to be taught something. :grin:

It's way too much spin, bias, and smoke and mirrors

Can you point to something they've said in any episode that is wrong, and back it with a link to some evidence showing they are wrong? Probably not.

They are in show business, so it's a flashy show, but their research department is very good and I have yet to find a fact they've stated that was wrong.

By the way, all their shows are available on NetFlix if anyone's never seen them.


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Edited by Diploid (03/09/07 07:15 AM)

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Re: What I've Learned From Watching Penn & Teller's "Bullshit!" [Re: Diploid]
    #6651941 -

Diploid said:
It's way too much spin, bias, and smoke and mirrors

Can you point to something they've said in any episode that is wrong, and back it with a link to some evidence showing they are wrong? Probably not.

They are in show business, so it's a flashy show, but their research department is very good and I have yet to find a fact they've stated that was wrong.


:handth:

I was going to say that... Smoke and Mirror flashiness is part of their act... But the facts are the facts, and they speak for themselves. The episode on Recycling was a real eye opener.

Great show!

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Re: What I've Learned From Watching Penn & Teller's "Bullshit!" [Re: Diploid]
    #6651980 -

Diploid said:
the episodes I've learned the most from are the ones I went into that Penn & Teller's positions made me uncomfortable

That's usually the case in life. The more uncomfortable some demonstrable truth makes you, the more likely you've become emotionally attached to some idea that may not be true.

When something makes me uncomfortable I sit up and pay attention because in my experience, that's when I'm about to be taught something new. :grin:



That is how it is in my experience also.


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Re: What I've Learned From Watching Penn & Teller's "Bullshit!" [Re: RoosterCogburn]
    #6652013 -

The episode on Recycling was a real eye opener.

Especially when they point out that a single 14 square mile piece of land (tiny compared to the size of the U.S.) would be a large enough landfill to take all the garbage the U.S. produces in 100 years. And when it's finally filled, like most landfills, it can be converted into a nice park.

My favorite episode is when they debunk Feng Shui. They hire two 'Certified Feng Shui Consultants' without telling each that they've hired the other. Then they send them separately into a house and try not to laugh as each 'Certified' consultant proceeds to make up completely contradictory placings of the furniture while stating with complete certainty that their furniture arrangement is optimal.

That and the one where they hire a couple of psychics and demonstrate how the SAME GUY gets totally different readings depending on what he's wearing, his attitude, and what the psychic overheard him saying on his cell phone before the reading. The conversation on the cell phone was staged to see if it would influence the reading. Naturally, it did, demonstrating that psychics are keen observers of human behavior, but nothing more.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: What I've Learned From Watching Penn & Teller's "Bullshit!" [Re: Diploid]
    #6652774 -

Ha! "There's a sucker born every minute".


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: What I've Learned From Watching Penn & Teller's "Bullshit!" [Re: Diploid]
    #6653282 -

Quote:
Diploid said: Can you point to something they've said in any episode that is wrong, and back it with a link to some evidence showing they are wrong? Probably not.


The people they choose to interview are always the most ridiculous examples of whatever it is they're trying to debunk. Rather than get a dialog going with intelligent representatives from both sides of an argument they pick some lunatic off the street to represent whatever they're calling bullshit. Show is HEAVILY biased. I have only seen a couple episodes though, so I can't pull a false fact out of my hat.


--------------------
As we live a life of ease,
Everyone of us has all we need
Sky of blue and Sea of Green
In our Yellow Submarine

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Re: What I've Learned From Watching Penn & Teller's "Bullshit!" [Re: aelephant]
    #6653434 -

aelephant said:
Quote:
Diploid said: Can you point to something they've said in any episode that is wrong, and back it with a link to some evidence showing they are wrong? Probably not.


The people they choose to interview are always the most ridiculous examples of whatever it is they're trying to debunk. Rather than get a dialog going with intelligent representatives from both sides of an argument they pick some lunatic off the street to represent whatever they're calling bullshit. Show is HEAVILY biased. I have only seen a couple episodes though, so I can't pull a false fact out of my hat.


No, its true, this is how they do things. Like with the GM vs Organic foods example. Heavily biased, and chose a bunch of new age hippies for the organic side, whilst having scientists for the other.


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Re: What I've Learned From Watching Penn & Teller's "Bullshit!" [Re: Sinbad]
    #6653574 -

Bullshit started off great, but they quickly declined, and that Big Brother episode really got to me.  Plus, they start "debunking" feng shui, big brother, religion, etc.

but they dont really debunk any of the concepts, they only humiliate and debunk individual people.  Most of the episodes are, excuse the pun, bullshit!

they should stick to magic  :wink:


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

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Re: What I've Learned From Watching Penn & Teller's "Bullshit!" [Re: aelephant]
    #6653654 -

The people they choose to interview are always the most ridiculous examples of whatever it is they're trying to debunk.

That's the show biz part. Without the idiots to interview, the show would be boring.

But the beef, the facts, every single one is right on the money. If that bugs you, well, read what I said in the fourth post down. :grin:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: What I've Learned From Watching Penn & Teller's "Bullshit!" [Re: kotik]
    #6654880 -

aelephant said:
The people they choose to interview are always the most ridiculous examples of whatever it is they're trying to debunk. Rather than get a dialog going with intelligent representatives from both sides of an argument they pick some lunatic off the street to represent whatever they're calling bullshit. Show is HEAVILY biased. I have only seen a couple episodes though, so I can't pull a false fact out of my hat.


It kind of depends on the issue. "Ghostbusters" took on people who claimed to used science to attempt to prove the existence of ghosts. It's obviously going to fairly out there, as there aren't any real legit Ghost hunters who could prove anything.

But then there is P.E.T.A., and another environmental issue which I can't recall. The had environmentalists dispute the way the environmental movement hijacks the actual meaning & purpose. For instance, they had the co-founder of Green Peace on to dispute some of the environmental movement. It's not that Penn & Teller are saying environmentalism is bullshit, and in fact, they seem to support the basic idea. It's a certain side of it that they're taking on.

Same with chiropractors, they had another professional chiropractor on who criticized a chiropractors who was taking advantage of patients by treating people and making extraordinary claims about the service. Penn & Teller even say
, straight up, that there are legit uses.

kotik said:
Bullshit started off great, but they quickly declined, and that Big Brother episode really got to me. Plus, they start "debunking" feng shui, big brother, religion, etc.

but they dont really debunk any of the concepts, they only humiliate and debunk individual people. Most of the episodes are, excuse the pun, bullshit!


Some of the episodes have gotten away from the standard format. The Boyscout episode was interesting, but not exactly more than a short documentary on how corrupt the top has gotten. The college episode seemed to wander a bit. But I am interested in the upcoming episode on Wal-Mart, cause I can't stand shopping there, or really, anything about it.

Quote:
Sinbad said:No, its true, this is how they do things. Like with the GM vs Organic foods example. Heavily biased, and chose a bunch of new age hippies for the organic side, whilst having scientists for the other.


That was a portion that I wanted to hear more voices on. Even though I generally agreed with Penn & Teller, I'd like to know more about it. Hard for me to know what other legit voices there are out there (if there are any). Same with the debate on global warming, because it's such a heavily political issue, and I've seen way too many articles which quote junk science made by "think tanks" funded by oil companies. I'd like to see what the consencious amongst scientists & climate change researchers have to say.


My biggest complaint is that I want to know more about their associations with the Cato Institute, a libertarian think tank.

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Re: What I've Learned From Watching Penn & Teller's "Bullshit!" [Re: Twirling]
    #6655585 -

the episodes i really enjoyed were the early ones - recycling, bottled water, life coaching, plenty others. However, the show ALWAYS concludes with a very definitive, black / white answer.

I disagree with that entire mentality of something being fact, or bullshit. They use the same techniques as an outlet like Fox News when they present statistics, and of course interviewing complete assholes. At least it's entertaining, except for the newest seasons.

The shows tend to come off as preachy, and myopic. And I'm a fan.


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

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Re: What I've Learned From Watching Penn & Teller's "Bullshit!" [Re: Diploid]
    #6660693 -

> That's the show biz part.

I haven't watched the show, but I have eaten dinner with Penn & Teller. (Around 1993 after one of their magic shows. I was a member of IBM at the time, and was one of the people that helped organize the show.) What you see on stage is showbiz. They are completely different in private.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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