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Soliciting One's Beliefs
    #6386020 -

Has anyone ever felt the gravity from a concept that desires to assimilate oneself?

I was working last night, and a customer leaned forward and handed me a little pamphlet entitled "God's simple plan for you", and commented that he would like to see me in church. As I was working, I was bound to be non-confrontational and thanked him.

Of course, the pamphlet contained Biblical scriptures and was put forth by a certain church. Needless to say, it was the subject of some righteous laughs and spoofing at work. I'm curious how many times the magic ticket passed hands, at least four times to be certain. :smirk:

Why is it that a certain concept would need to be projected in such a manner? What seeks to benefit from shameful promotion in such a manner, a dire need to propagate itself further?

Such a concept surely obstructs the enjoyment of the present moment. I was working with someone that really vibes with me, personality-wise (its been awhile :grin:). Very intelligent, strives to work hard, has a similar sense of humor and manners of expessing it. I passed it off to him, and asked if that is what the guy said to me. I recall saying "Hey, I should start printing my beliefs and passing them out to everyone, 'Get stoned and have fun'". :lol:

Ideas are only constructive and useful when they pertain to reality, in this present moment. They enable us to understand reality and to communicate reality with others, to experience it and more effectively navigate reality. What use did the idea presented to me in such a setting hold? An opportunity for amusement. :smirk:

I think this signifies that the concept of God is far less being regarded in the context of the true nature of reality, yet the concept's programming to propagate itself offers it the opportunity to live on as a source of humor for the human race. You know, like someone getting stoned and saying to themselves "jesus christ, what was I thinking?" :bongload:

I later approached another friend and told him, in a serious, calm, direct manner of speaking "If I may borrow a moment of your time to solicit my own beliefs. I know you 'keep it real', but I think is is time you start 'keeping it real' for Jesus" as I handed him the pamphlet. :lol:

Someone asked me if I had blessed him and sent him on his way, and I told them no, that I simply told him thank you, that I turned the other cheek. :wink:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Soliciting One's Beliefs [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6388052 -

I think its fine if you dont choose to go to church. Many people dont feel they need church, most of the time, at least in my case.

But, there is no reason to, in any way, shoot down someone elses beliefs. Most of all if he was nice about it. Just take it and trash it after he leaves, if you choose. On the other hand, I dont know you personally but I can most certainly say that youre a special person, very smart indeed. Maybe he somehow recognized or sensed that in you and decided to take the initiative, or, might be that, someone/something is trying to reach out, trying to tell you something.

Either way, if you havent, try going to church just once. Listen to what they speak of, not what they speak about. I know some may preach a little too much, almost like they have lived through the Bible, and not make much sense, at first. Just give him a chance if you will. Thank You. :heart:

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Re: Soliciting One's Beliefs [Re: QbanMoJo]
    #6388074 -

isnt the act of proselytizing directly to another person a disrespectful act?

I dont understand how you can ask people to "respect your religion" when you hand out slips of paper with bible quotes and interpretations on them, and not see that that very act is disrespecting someone elses religion.

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Re: Soliciting One's Beliefs [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #6388160 -

a desire to convert another to one's religious beliefs only shows me that the solicitor has an insecurity in facing himself in the mirror.

he reflects his mirror image onto someone else so that it is not his face he must see when taking a glance.

the same goes for the organization he works for, the church.

at the root it is simply an avoidance of accepting one's own personal truth in my opinion. :mushroom2:

Quote:
isn't the act of proselytizing directly to another person a disrespectful act?


if you are already at peace with your questions of life and death then there is really no offense to be taken from someone who is still struggling with the mystery.

a simple smile is the best one can really do until the person eventually finds his own path and becomes capable of smiling back. :heart:

:earth: :yinyang: :shineon:


--------------------

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Re: Soliciting One's Beliefs [Re: AlteredAgain]
    #6388264 -

Quote:
AlteredAgain said:
a simple smile is the best one can really do until the person eventually finds his own path and becomes capable of smiling back. :heart:


Exactly!

During this past summer, two Mormon troops were walking down the sidewalk and spotted me at a distance.  They confronted me and asked me if I accepted Jesus, if I wanted to talk, etc...  I told them religion was not right for my path but I wished them luck on their journey.  They looked at me weird, then walked off as I just smiled.


--------------------
channel your inner Larry David

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Re: Soliciting One's Beliefs [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #6388408 -

psilocyberin said:
isnt the act of proselytizing directly to another person a disrespectful act?

I dont understand how you can ask people to "respect your religion" when you hand out slips of paper with bible quotes and interpretations on them, and not see that that very act is disrespecting someone elses religion.


How is that? If the Bible is universal? Remember that, no matter what "god" you believe in, unless it is satan, in which in that case he is no God, remember that when it comes down to it, that God is Good. Not because he might be entirely Good, but because at the root of his teachings, they ARE Good, if you want them to be.

I think of religion worldwide. There honestly cant and shouldnt be, one true religion for the masses. There are too many of us, many cultures, backgrounds, etc. For example, you cant expect an Asian man to believe in a western figure, although it can and does happen, rarely.

Think of everyone as a God, now think about how many of them you CAN believe in? You may agree with some of their beliefs but its more probable that you wont be able to accept most of theirs, for whatever reason that may be. To cut myself short, for the readers purpose, I believe in any Honest and Good teaching ANYONE has to offer, anyone. Christ, Buddha, Ghandi, Allah, you, us. I might not accept some of their teachings for whatever reason, but if I can extract some Good from it, I'll believe in that Good, I certainly wont worship them as God, but in my eyes they did their part in me and therefore are Good, in my eyes. :heart:

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Re: Soliciting One's Beliefs [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6388558 -

I've had similar experiences. A couple times I've had mormons and church people knock on my door and ask if they could come in and talk about their religion. I tell them "no thanks", and shut the door. It left me wondering what type of person lets strangers come in their home to talk about religion? My guess is probably the same type of people that get suckered over the phone by telemarketers.

In my intro to psychology class I took awhile back, there was a middle-aged guy who would talk about his religion and his life every chance he got. The prof. would ask questions and he would raise his hand as if to answer them and then go off on a tangent about how Jesus changed his life and he was an ex alchoholic so on and so forth. He attended the local church that was right next to the college. I often wondered if he was there to further his education or to seek followers of his religion (Christian Baptist).

Getting back to your post I think its a pretty dumb idea to try to solicit your beliefs especially with little pieces of paper to people you know nothing about. Realistically I don't think anyone would actually be like "Wow - this paper says Jesus loves me... Why, I'm going to start going to church every Sunday! WOOHOO! PRAISE JESUS!". My guess is that people soliciting their beliefs in such a way might be the god-fearing type that do little things like that to appear good in the eyes of their Lord because they don't want to be smited into the depths of hell.

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Re: Soliciting One's Beliefs [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6388640 -

I like your thoughts on God pertaining to reality. If God does not pertain to reality, what good does this god do for us who are mired in it?

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Re: Soliciting One's Beliefs [Re: QbanMoJo]
    #6388908 -

QbanMoJo said:
I think its fine if you dont choose to go to church. Many people dont feel they need church, most of the time, at least in my case.


Church is community... centered around some, urm, interesting conceptions. I think it would be inspiring if, once a week, a community got together around a big pot luck dinner, and simply shared the experience of being alive together. Communication, enjoying the food that everyone has prepared for each other, etc., without the distraction of "We'd just like to thank God for..." nonsense.

Quote:
But, there is no reason to, in any way, shoot down someone elses beliefs.


I didn't shoot down "his beliefs". In fact, I didn't even shoot down the beliefs themselves. I specifically "shot down" the manner in which the beliefs were presented to me. My workplace is not an appropriate avenue through which exchange of beliefs shall occur. In fact, I do believe it says on the glass doors in the entrance "No solicitiation". He entered my temple and thought to propagate the trademark of his. If I would have premeditated the potential to be in such a situation, I would have been more prepared and would have appropriately dealt with him.

Quote:
Most of all if he was nice about it.


I could not consider his actions to be "nice". I was turning into a side-aisle, probably with a blue cart behind me, focusing more on the action being carried out than living in an abstract, conceptual state of mind, and this guy leans towards me in a manner that makes it so that I do not even see his face, and he hands me a card and says, as I'm walking away, that he would like to see me in church.

It was a hostile action. The guy strikes me as being twisted, and enjoying a sense of power being derived from the action he carried out. I was personally enjoying a sense of being aware of my experience, and perhaps a bit of identity through the action I was carrying out (working), as well.

I recall telling someone that "Nah, I just turned my cheek". If I hadn't done so, I would have the mind to visit his church on Sunday and start handing out flyers for Wal*Mart's credit card. The nature of the action would be the same. The god of the Old Testament would enjoy seeing an eye for an eye dealt out, yet I think that Christ Consciousness would enjoy the experience of simply saying "thank you" and turning away. :smirk:

Quote:
Just take it and trash it after he leaves, if you choose.


Nah, it was more of an experience to amuse ourselves over the idea of the situation. I said to my friend "I wonder why he didn't hand you one" with a smirk, and he said "Probably because I was in the aisle doing this :headbang:". Seeing him headbanging was hilarious. :grin:

Quote:
On the other hand, I dont know you personally but I can most certainly say that youre a special person, very smart indeed. Maybe he somehow recognized or sensed that in you and decided to take the initiative, or, might be that, someone/something is trying to reach out, trying to tell you something.


I considered this, as well, but determined it to simply be my own sense of identity trying to further itself by catering to its own vanity. "Hey, you are very special and smart, this amazing force in the universe wants to contact you, maybe you should adopt the meme that strives to survive".

I saw it as a challenge to my personal power. You know, the guy was like "Hey, here is a guy that enjoys simply being himself and experiencing reality, no need for a middle-man, someone to hold power over them, let's try to make him bow to me". Not for me, babe. :smirk:

Quote:
Either way, if you havent, try going to church just once.


I've been to church many times when I was younger and I enjoyed it. I thought the church itself (the building) had striking qualities that really seemed cool to me (the architecture, the stained glass, the feng shui of the place). It would be a place that would be interesting to meditate in, but not a place for sermons and hymns. The organ kicked ass as well. :headbang:

Quote:
Listen to what they speak of, not what they speak about. I know some may preach a little too much, almost like they have lived through the Bible, and not make much sense, at first. Just give him a chance if you will. Thank You. :heart:


Give "who" a chance? An abstract notion that does not substantiate itself through direct perception of reality? Give my own imagination a chance? My imagination is creative and vivid enough. I enjoy applying it through mediums of expression (work, musikk, discussion, my experience of reality). I need not waste its time by wanting to define reality when it is directly known and perceived for what it is. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Soliciting One's Beliefs [Re: QbanMoJo]
    #6388942 -

QbanMoJo said:
psilocyberin said:
isnt the act of proselytizing directly to another person a disrespectful act?

I dont understand how you can ask people to "respect your religion" when you hand out slips of paper with bible quotes and interpretations on them, and not see that that very act is disrespecting someone elses religion.


How is that? If the Bible is universal?


in what way is the bible universal? 4 languages and multiple revisions hardly makes it universal.

Quote:
Remember that, no matter what "god" you believe in, unless it is satan, in which in that case he is no God, remember that when it comes down to it, that God is Good. Not because he might be entirely Good, but because at the root of his teachings, they ARE Good, if you want them to be.

I think of religion worldwide. There honestly cant and shouldnt be, one true religion for the masses. There are too many of us, many cultures, backgrounds, etc. For example, you cant expect an Asian man to believe in a western figure, although it can and does happen, rarely.

Think of everyone as a God, now think about how many of them you CAN believe in? You may agree with some of their beliefs but its more probable that you wont be able to accept most of theirs, for whatever reason that may be. To cut myself short, for the readers purpose, I believe in any Honest and Good teaching ANYONE has to offer, anyone. Christ, Buddha, Ghandi, Allah, you, us. I might not accept some of their teachings for whatever reason, but if I can extract some Good from it, I'll believe in that Good, I certainly wont worship them as God, but in my eyes they did their part in me and therefore are Good, in my eyes. :heart:


and all of this is your beliefs upon this matter..... it has no bearing on this discussion. It is only your belief that God is good, and all that comes from that entity is such..... please don't state it as fact.
Now, disrespecting ones beliefs by proselytizing is my opinion on the matter, and as such, is up for discussion. I phrased my position in a question, which means it wasn't stated as fact.... meaning, I have the ability to see past my own judgement and perception of reality.

you see, you think the "rules of religion" follow the same parameters as the christian faith: putting in a few hours of due time a week and reverting back to a hedonistic slob the other 6 days of the week.... ad infinitum. Rigid lines of what is good and bad, right and wrong, and that by "witnessing" to someone else, you have gone above and beyond your call of duty as a christian and made a sacrifice for what is deemed the "good" of the overall faith.
You have made your own rules up and awarded yourself points....
Many of the "bigger" religions forbid even the slightest entertaining of alternate beliefs, yet they all have a sub clause of mandatory proselytizing.

By proselytizing to someone else you are stating that your beliefs are superior and the most correct, and it goes without saying that anything short of falling to your knees and begging whichever God for forgiveness places you in an inferior afterlife.

Talking about your belefs and your religion to others who have initiated such conversation is acceptable, but walking up to complete strangers to proselytize is quite pretentious and carries with it the stench of self-acclaimed moral superiority.

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Re: Soliciting One's Beliefs [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6389545 -

I had an interesting experience with some Jehovah's Witnesses about 10 years ago.

They knocked on my door, wanted to come in and discuss God's plan (or something like that).  I told them that I was not religious, and that I was quite happy with my belief system AND my long distance service, so I was not interesting in switching over at this time.  :wink:  I was not rude to them (I'm sure they were shocked), and they were brave enough to inquire as to what my beliefs were.

I explained my ideas about the energetic nature of material life, and the ways in which I enact those ideas in my daily activities.  I said that I felt quite fulfilled in my "best guess" version of Why We Are Here and What is the Meaning of IT All.

They were very respectful, and said that they wished me well, and that I was welcome in their church anytime.  They left without leaving any pamphlets or offering ANY sermons.

A few weeks later, I was moving & they happened by again.  Not only did they refrain from any mention of religion, they offered to help me move!  They even said that they would call members of their church to come over and help.  I had six friends coming over already, so I declined, but I was impressed by their attitude. 

They seemed entirely accepting of my professed beliefs, and dropped their agenda once they knew that I was not "lost" and searching.  They also generously offered aid at a later date, knowing that I was not a seeker who would join their flock.

Very Christ-like, IMO.  :thumbup:

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Re: Soliciting One's Beliefs [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #6391080 -

psilocyberin said:
you see, you think the "rules of religion" follow the same parameters as the christian faith: putting in a few hours of due time a week and reverting back to a hedonistic slob the other 6 days of the week.... ad infinitum. Rigid lines of what is good and bad, right and wrong, and that by "witnessing" to someone else, you have gone above and beyond your call of duty as a christian and made a sacrifice for what is deemed the "good" of the overall faith.
You have made your own rules up and awarded yourself points....
Many of the "bigger" religions forbid even the slightest entertaining of alternate beliefs, yet they all have a sub clause of mandatory proselytizing.



I stand corrected, for the most part. I must not state faith, my faith, as fact. Soliciting is wrong. God, for all we know, is fictional. But Good, IS NOT, only to those who choose not to believe.

One more lesson, if once again, you choose to listen. Dont assume so much, most of all about the type of person I am and the things I do every second of my life, you have a very small idea of who I am and these "rules" that I follow. Also, there is no need for awards or recognition, thats why I come here and discuss these things with my brethren, to stay anonymous and in a way to be taken seriously, if not I would just be another "crazy" person talking about religion and Good.

Thank You and I apologize for the minimal rant, its only in my own defense. :heart:

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Re: Soliciting One's Beliefs [Re: Veritas]
    #6391112 -

you could torture souls every time your mormon friend blinks and he'll still be your best friend as long as you pretend to be celibate

that's how great they really are


--------------------
I have considered such matters.

SIKE

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Re: Soliciting One's Beliefs [Re: Cherk]
    #6391121 -

cherokee said:
you could torture souls every time your mormon friend blinks and he'll still be your best friend as long as you pretend to be celibate

that's how great they really are


if you got a jack mormon friend, he'll blink one eye at a time for you
and if he senses something funny he'll give you a black eye
that's how great they really are


--------------------
I have considered such matters.

SIKE

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Re: Soliciting One's Beliefs [Re: Cherk]
    #6391152 -

and the whole idea of the mormon faith is
if we all pile our shit together we won't be able to tell
who stinks the most

and when you get tired of smelling everyone else's shit, you can make some new shit of your own, and you can eat it and pretend its food

that way the mormons can continue in their business of exploiting love for blood

that's how great they really are


--------------------
I have considered such matters.

SIKE

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Re: Soliciting One's Beliefs [Re: Veritas]
    #6391184 -

their faith is just lucky in that it still has some cheer after all the kids are raped

they rape a lot of kids
that's how great they really are


--------------------
I have considered such matters.

SIKE

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Re: Soliciting One's Beliefs [Re: Cherk]
    #6391406 -

Sir, with all due respect cause of who you are, a human being, take all of that somewhere else. Or if you wanna state your views, without adding lots of post counts, put it all in one. Thank You.

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Re: Soliciting One's Beliefs [Re: QbanMoJo]
    #6391451 -

no


--------------------
I have considered such matters.

SIKE

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Moderator Notification [Re: Cherk]
    #6391921 -

Yes. There is no reason to post-whore.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Moderator Notification [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6391963 -

Well, no good reason.  :grin:

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