Home | Community | Message Board


Reliable Spores
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder, Kratom Powder for Sale, Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Edibles   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1
InvisibleTODAY
Battletoad
Male

Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 10,218
Loc: Metropolis City, USA
Philosophy 101
    #5828408 - 07/06/06 07:08 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I just finished my intensive 4 week philosophy 101 class. Dammit, I wish they taught me this stuff instead of Catholic religion when I was in grade school.

Anyways, the course of study began with Pre-Socratics, moving on to Socrates and Plato, then Aristotle. We moved on to rationalism through Descartes and empiricism through Locke. I chose to stop going to class around this time to focus on writing my final paper (3 hrs a day per class can be a drag) so I only studied the existentialists on my own, but gained alot of insight. These last three philosophers were Dostoyevsky(The Grand Inquisitor), Sartre, and Nietzsche.

I really enjoyed watching philosophy grow up and appreciated being guided through the process by a knowledgeable and organized teacher. I also enjoyed criticizing philosophers while I read and finding validations of my own thought processes in other philosophers' work. It was a great class and helped put me on the level needed to understand argument and criticism when discussing philosophy with others.

I know my views will not always be the same forever (at least not all of them) but I really feel like I'm getting a better grip on who I am and what is important, relative to my understanding of the world and life and death.

If you don't want to take a class, you could show up and take the syllabus then browse some of the reading if the school library has a lender copy of the book. There really are some great thinkers and great works out there for the person who seeks knowledge. But remember, knowledge isn't for everyone.

My question to you:

Did you take an intro philosophy class?
Who are some ideas (and people) that affected you?
How has your life changed?


--------------------

ca'rouse (k-rouz)
intr.v.
To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineSneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
 User Gallery
Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 4 years, 14 days
Re: Philosophy 101 [Re: TODAY]
    #5828425 - 07/06/06 07:13 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

what is the difference between a person fully believing christianity after bible study, and someone being an existentialist after Philo 101?

It is great to study philosophy, but it just seems so hollow unless you learn and focus on it, by your own will. Truth doesn't come from people telling you something, truth comes from your own cognition and full grasp of something.


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 10,662
Loc: On the Border
Re: Philosophy 101 [Re: TODAY]
    #5828545 - 07/06/06 07:42 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I took PHI 101 (introductory logic) and PHI 102 (ethics). I discovered that logic was "real" and ethics was not.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleTODAY
Battletoad
Male

Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 10,218
Loc: Metropolis City, USA
Re: Philosophy 101 [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5828669 - 07/06/06 08:06 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

psilocyberin said:
what is the difference between a person fully believing christianity after bible study, and someone being an existentialist after Philo 101?




The difference is that Christianity isn't a critical thinking excercise.  Christianity is a listen, store, repeat excercise.  Philosophers at least read religious texts, so they know religious and secular writings. I don't know that many Christians who would be willing to study science and philosophy.  The ones I've debated with had no knowledge of evolution or physical sciences or philosophy.  If they choose not to learn about anything that may contradict their faith they shouldn't have to, it's their life. 

Chrisitianity is just too easy an answer to unanswerable questions.  God lives in Heaven and we'll get to live there in a mansion if he thinks we are good enough.  Its like Christians stopped at algebra and existentialists moved on to calculus.  Christians stopped asking questions when the Gods were the answer while philosophers weren't so easily convinced.

For me, I was never satisfied with the answers they gave me in Catholic school so I sought calculus while classmates perfected algebra...its a matter of personal choice and when it comes down to it, neither view is right or wrong.  Maybe people are more happy with religion than with a pointless and temporary existence, if so, be happy I say to them. :sun:

To sum this up, the difference between the philosopher and the cleric is the philosopher knows both sides and chooses one.  The cleric knows one side and chooses not to know the other.

Don't get me wrong, I find alot of value in Christianity...there's no greater way to ensure that Mr. Joe Christian will pay his taxes and do what he's told by his boss than by convincing him that he will be rewarded when he dies if submits instead of living freely while he is alive.


--------------------

ca'rouse (k-rouz)
intr.v.
To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleTODAY
Battletoad
Male

Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 10,218
Loc: Metropolis City, USA
Re: Philosophy 101 [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5828680 - 07/06/06 08:08 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I'm excited about my business ethics class. I interested to see what the standard for the business world's ethical structure looks like and how much is based on secular vs religious morality.


--------------------

ca'rouse (k-rouz)
intr.v.
To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineSneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
 User Gallery
Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 4 years, 14 days
Re: Philosophy 101 [Re: TODAY]
    #5828754 - 07/06/06 08:21 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

what substantiated fact does existentialism (especially existentialism) have over christianity? It is all theory upon theory in hopes of a personal explanation.

Also, don't get ahead of yourself, you are only in philo 101, lets not bash and generalize the clerics just yet..... in fact, most preachers, pastors etc. have to go to college for their profession, and at those colleges, I am pretty sure they teach the same philo 101 class, with the exception that they teach you how to abate it/dismiss it with the scripture as well.

Every philo major I have talked to had a non-stop obsession with one certain philosophy, until the next semester where it would get replaced by the new philosophy obsession, where they were always absolute about how right they were and how immaculate their philosophy was.

It all reminds me of the ovists and the spermists debate which stemmed from the story of the homunculus, where they elaborated for days on end trying to prove whether the soul or "life" exists primarily in the sperm or the egg..... and the whole time it was a fabricated story from some backwards alchemist.

Basically, I am just saying that there is no more proof to existentialism, solipsism etc than there is God. While at your college they teach you philosophy to defeat debates of God, at Seminary colleges, they teach you God to defeat debates of philosophy.... and the whole time the split comes from one fabricated story, and which side of the story you choose to believe.


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleTODAY
Battletoad
Male

Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 10,218
Loc: Metropolis City, USA
Re: Philosophy 101 [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5828859 - 07/06/06 08:45 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

psilocyberin said:
Basically, I am just saying that there is no more proof to existentialism, solipsism etc than there is God. While at your college they teach you philosophy to defeat debates of God, at Seminary colleges, they teach you God to defeat debates of philosophy.... and the whole time the split comes from one fabricated story, and which side of the story you choose to believe.




I don't believe I'm getting ahead of myself, I know I'm a 101 graduate and nothing else related to philosophy. I don't claim to be an expert on philosophy. The intention of this post was to inform others of the value of taking a philosophy class. I've never had a philosophy before this and I identified with the thinkers we studied when they decided they would try to find the big answers to life questions outside of religious ideology. Don't forget that!!

If you read back, you proposed the initial question of the difference between existentialism and christianity. If I understand the point you make by proposing the question, then tell me if I've got it clear or not. You are trying to get across to me that truth is relative to the individual, so no belief is truthful. Therefore existentialism is as valid/invalid as Christianity.

Well, that's certainly something to say but I think we can disprove at least a few organized doctrines with our understanding of science and our ability to reason. The claims of some doctines just don't hold under scientific criticism, so I would venture to say they are untrue.


--------------------

ca'rouse (k-rouz)
intr.v.
To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineSneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
 User Gallery
Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 4 years, 14 days
Re: Philosophy 101 [Re: TODAY]
    #5828974 - 07/06/06 09:12 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

science is to spiritual belief what science is to philosophy.

With exceptions of raining toads and other byproducts of religious zeal, the focus and philosophy behind the religion is not something which is testable, or in the scientific realm. Same goes with concepts like existentialism.

but yes

Quote:

Therefore existentialism is as valid/invalid as Christianity.




is the point I was trying to get across.


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
Re: Philosophy 101 [Re: TODAY]
    #5829002 - 07/06/06 09:18 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

TODAY said:
I just finished my intensive 4 week philosophy 101 class. Dammit, I wish they taught me this stuff instead of Catholic religion when I was in grade school.

Anyways, the course of study began with Pre-Socratics, moving on to Socrates and Plato, then Aristotle. We moved on to rationalism through Descartes and empiricism through Locke. I chose to stop going to class around this time to focus on writing my final paper (3 hrs a day per class can be a drag) so I only studied the existentialists on my own, but gained alot of insight. These last three philosophers were Dostoyevsky(The Grand Inquisitor), Sartre, and Nietzsche.

I really enjoyed watching philosophy grow up and appreciated being guided through the process by a knowledgeable and organized teacher. I also enjoyed criticizing philosophers while I read and finding validations of my own thought processes in other philosophers' work. It was a great class and helped put me on the level needed to understand argument and criticism when discussing philosophy with others.

I know my views will not always be the same forever (at least not all of them) but I really feel like I'm getting a better grip on who I am and what is important, relative to my understanding of the world and life and death.

If you don't want to take a class, you could show up and take the syllabus then browse some of the reading if the school library has a lender copy of the book. There really are some great thinkers and great works out there for the person who seeks knowledge. But remember, knowledge isn't for everyone.

My question to you:

Did you take an intro philosophy class?
Who are some ideas (and people) that affected you?
How has your life changed?




Over here it is an obligatory subject in high school

yes it has opened my mind, but the initial enthosisasm ended and I realised non of these philosophers answered any of the questions they asked themselfs


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineFatBath
Turtle Wannabe
Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 89
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
Re: Philosophy 101 [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5829052 - 07/06/06 09:27 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

God chose some Jews, they screwed up. Jesus slapped around some Sabbath zealots, Christians are born, they screw up. Mohommad makes Islam, say that Jesus was a cool messanger and all, some Christians are alright, but they pretty much suck. Writes Koran. Seems a lot more terrifying than the bible. Dostoyevski was a christian philosopher with a gambling problem? Socrates said he was a prophet? I all know is Ivan Karamazov. Carlos Castanada makes delicious cheese cake. I can't understand philososphy because I am a chronic masturbator.


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineSneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
 User Gallery
Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 4 years, 14 days
Re: Philosophy 101 [Re: FatBath]
    #5829070 - 07/06/06 09:29 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

best post ever!!!


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleTODAY
Battletoad
Male

Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 10,218
Loc: Metropolis City, USA
Re: Philosophy 101 [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5829169 - 07/06/06 09:49 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

So if everything is valid/invalid, then everything is true/untrue. isn't that an idea of existentialism?


--------------------

ca'rouse (k-rouz)
intr.v.
To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineSneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
 User Gallery
Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 4 years, 14 days
Re: Philosophy 101 [Re: TODAY]
    #5829223 - 07/06/06 10:06 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I never said anything was valid/invalid. I just said they were equal.


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleTODAY
Battletoad
Male

Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 10,218
Loc: Metropolis City, USA
Re: Philosophy 101 [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5829233 - 07/06/06 10:11 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

psilocyberin said:
science is to spiritual belief what science is to philosophy.

With exceptions of raining toads and other byproducts of religious zeal, the focus and philosophy behind the religion is not something which is testable, or in the scientific realm. Same goes with concepts like existentialism.

but yes

Quote:

Therefore existentialism is as valid/invalid as Christianity.




is the point I was trying to get across.




I said it and you agreed with me. What did you mean to say if this isn't it?


--------------------

ca'rouse (k-rouz)
intr.v.
To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineSneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
 User Gallery
Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 4 years, 14 days
Re: Philosophy 101 [Re: TODAY]
    #5829257 - 07/06/06 10:20 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

not to sidetrack into semantics, but I took that quote to mean valid OR invalid, not some existential duality.


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibleshroomydan
exshroomerite
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/04/04
Posts: 4,126
Loc: In the woods
Re: Philosophy 101 [Re: TODAY]
    #5832805 - 07/07/06 08:11 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

To sum this up, the difference between the philosopher and the cleric is the philosopher knows both sides and chooses one. The cleric knows one side and chooses not to know the other.




Don't be too quick to judge the cleric. Until a few years ago I was at a catholic seminary working toward a philosophy degree. Two of my best teachers were priests. Candidates for priesthood have been required to study philosophy before moving onto theology since the middle ages. Today priesthood candidates are either required to earn a BA in philosophy or to supplement another bachelors degree with at least 30 credit hours of philosophy before being admitted to a Master of Divinities or Master of Theology program.

The intensive philosophical background is required because nothing in catholic doctrine is contrary to reason, so one must be capable of critical thinking in order to understand the rationale behind the doctrines. Catholic theology is basically western philosophy applied to divine revelation. Certain first premises are revealed by God, and a rational structure of reality is constructed by deducing from those premises.

Catholic Christianity meshes well with most philosophical schools from presocratic times up through the middle ages, and is even compatible with most of the moderns including Emanuel Kant (though some priests would disagree with me about Kant). 

The real conflict begins with the post Hegelians epitomized by Karl Marx who called Christianity an "opiate for the masses", and by Nietzsche who through the mouth of a madman declared "God is dead". The forlorn existentialists followed, vainly attempting to impose meaning on a meaningless existence.

It seems from one of your earlier posts that you implied existentialism is grown up philosophy. I see existentialism more as a wrong turn that has hit a dead end. It begins with a premise that ultimate reality cannot be known and that life is meaningless. Many philosophical historians see existentialism as merely reflecting the despair so many felt in Europe due to WWI and WWII. These historians see existentialism as an interesting period piece, to be noted but ultimately dismissed by future generations of philosophers. A small leap of faith, whether it be in God, in logic, in the senses, in science, or in one's gut feelings is all that is required to escape the first premise and consequent forlornness of existentialism.

For an alternative grown up philosophy (one with a happier outlook), I would suggest looking toward the 20th century American philosophers, especially John Dewey. Dewy begins with experience as all moderns must, and quickly and logically builds to a meaningful system of reality, without relying on a God hypothesis as did Descartes.


In short...
Clerics (catholic priests) are required to study philosophy before studying theology. There is no conflict between Catholic doctrine and reason, and existentialism sucks.    :smile:


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineSchwammel
Auk

Registered: 12/10/05
Posts: 845
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
Re: Philosophy 101 *DELETED* [Re: shroomydan]
    #5832834 - 07/07/06 08:18 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Post deleted by Schwammel

Reason for deletion: rolling is not allowed so I deleted it



Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibleshroomydan
exshroomerite
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/04/04
Posts: 4,126
Loc: In the woods
Re: Philosophy 101 [Re: Schwammel]
    #5832847 - 07/07/06 08:20 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Trolling is not allowed in this forum Schwammel. You should edit your post.


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleMushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
Re: Philosophy 101 *DELETED* [Re: Schwammel]
    #5833133 - 07/07/06 09:35 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Schwammel said:
Post deleted by Schwammel<p>Reason for deletion: rolling is not allowed so I deleted it




Either walk or crawl, bucco.
No rolling around in these parts.


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflinePanoramix
Getafix
Male

Registered: 11/26/03
Posts: 634
Loc: Everywhere else
Last seen: 8 years, 7 months
Re: Philosophy 101 *DELETED* [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5834394 - 07/08/06 08:11 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
That's brilliant.... hehehe...

Yeah, good old intro to philo.  I got into Taoism before I started my philosophy course, and found western thought pretty much couldn't hold a candle.  To eastern thought, that is.  It held many of it's own candles, I'm sure.  But I digress, I found that whozitz, um... St. Thomas Aquinas, maybe?  St. Something, the guy who thought that attempting to define God was futile and insulting towards God, as that which is absolute cannot be defined as defining by definition limits and the absolute cannot be limited was fairly on the money for the clerics.  The Theory of Relativity and most post-Newtonian science makes fantastic sense to me (props to Darwin) for the Scientists and a number of philosophers did a good job of it, namely the Sophists up until they came to that loony 'might makes right' conclusion (think that was Gorgius, been years now) and the 'you never step in the same river twice' bloke, some Aristotle, a little Socrates but absolutely no Plato, though much of philosophy amounts to intellectual masturbation back up until Marx when you have philosophy pulling it's head out of it's ass and realizing that the compliance of philosophers like Voltaire are giving ethical justification to oppressive governments and allowing terrible hardships to be seen as the ideal situation (highest form of government or End of History as Francis Fukuyama would have it).  But really, the Taoists were really spot on, and I'm particularly fond of Chuang Tse and Li Po.  Taoism's had a bigger affect on my life than drugs, though I've noticed they sort of lead the same direction...


....nowhere in particular, and liking it. :biggrin: :smirk: :tongue2: :smirk: :biggrin:


--------------------
Don't worry, I'm wrong.


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1

Shop: PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder, Kratom Powder for Sale, Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Edibles   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Who actually takes philosophy?
( 1 2 all )
manna_man 2,465 21 10/02/03 12:19 PM
by fireworks_god
* For any Christians who may have an interest in converting... *DELETED*
( 1 2 3 all )
OkEyToKeY 4,038 51 01/14/04 08:53 AM
by cybrbeast
* Theists and their understanding of Existentialism
( 1 2 3 all )
Sclorch 5,741 45 10/28/02 12:56 PM
by Anonymous
* Christian Rationalism. An answer ? MAIA 1,208 2 08/04/02 07:08 AM
by MAIA
* A philosophy degree?
( 1 2 3 all )
rogue_pixie 6,468 57 11/30/04 07:05 AM
by rogue_pixie
* "So what of it?" or "Existential Difficulties" toastandjam 1,985 15 08/27/06 10:16 AM
by capliberty
* does existentialism support relativism or absolutism?
( 1 2 all )
Malachi 22,417 28 07/02/03 04:43 PM
by Malachi
* Existentialism NapkinOfDoom 986 11 08/15/03 03:49 PM
by Sclorch

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, Jokeshopbeard, DividedQuantum
2,137 topic views. 0 members, 0 guests and 4 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Print Topic ]
Search this thread:
Gaiana.nl
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2021 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.022 seconds spending 0.005 seconds on 13 queries.