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OfflineSchwammel
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Re: What is a Christian? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #5782046 - 06/22/06 11:41 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

"""Or maybe it's just anybody who cares to claim the title, and as Bug put it "being a Christian is the same as being anything else" """

the key word is "CLAIM"

you give away the kingdom as if it was yours! think again


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OfflinePanoramix
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Re: What is a Christian? [Re: Schwammel]
    #5782426 - 06/23/06 01:30 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Well, who are you to say someone CLAIMING to be Christian isn't? Do you know their motivations, their heart, their soul? Are you judging them by their actions? Their words? Their pew-warming capabilities?

I'm not giving away any kingdoms. But you can't disprove their claims, it amounts to a choice they've made or haven't made.

Plus, no worries, pal o' mine, I'm wrong anyway.


--------------------
Don't worry, I'm wrong.


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OfflineSchwammel
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Re: What is a Christian? [Re: Panoramix]
    #5782454 - 06/23/06 01:39 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

A christian is a fool and deserves no mercy.,


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OfflinePanoramix
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Re: What is a Christian? [Re: Schwammel]
    #5782507 - 06/23/06 01:54 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

That's a mighty broad statement.  Many Christian fools aren't even willful fools, just people who lack imagination or gumption or observational skills or intelligence.  Or maybe all of those at once, and more.  Who is more deserving of mercy than that?  Plenty of people, actually, but that wouldn't make them undeserving. 

And not all Christians are fools, per se, though the fools are the only ones with a valid excuse, I suppose.  :smirk: If they can find solice in their chosen philosophy and they don't shove it down anyone else's throat, then I've got no problem with that.


--------------------
Don't worry, I'm wrong.


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Offlineslaphappy
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Re: What is a Christian? [Re: Panoramix]
    #5782836 - 06/23/06 04:24 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

You are wrong.

Christianity in the sense you're talking about exists only as a logic construct in your behavior-pattern-compiler.

Just like anything else.

Its the same for nerds, jocks, cheerleaders, people who watch american nerd/jock/cheerleader movies, the police, nurses and doctors, teachers and students, and every other "role" you see out there.

On spotting tittie:
If $me==nerd; then; {run %% dr00l.$me.sweather ;; makesound; "/home/slaphappy/horse-ass-laugh.wav" ;; runlevel; "redface" ; on "eyecontact" do run %% "fastrun"}

If $me==jock; then; {run %% highfive.$quarterback ;; makesound; "/home/slaphappy/yeeehaw.wav" ;; runlevel; "headbutt" ; on "eyecontact" do %% "heybabe"}

If $me==christian; then; {run %% blowoutofproportion; chestcross$me; bless$all; godfear ;; makesound; "/home/slaphappy/holymother.wav" ;; runlevel; "panic" ; on "eyecontact" do %% "sue"; "condemn"; "negate";}

The last christian died on the cross.

To ascend, you must die.


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The argent messenger of truth beyond truth, the antithesis of life, cruel and bleak as interstellar space, pulseless and frozen as absolute zero, dazzling with the frost of irrefragable logic and unforgettable fact.


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Offlinefivepointer
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Re: What is a Christian? [Re: slaphappy]
    #5782994 - 06/23/06 06:27 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Some say a Christian is X, some say a Christian is Y.

But, according to the Bible, the only one who can tell what a Christian is is Christ himself. HE is the judge. Not you.



A good article about Christian judgment:

Righteous Judgment

"Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment" (John 7:24). "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man" (1 Corinthians 2:14-15).

Human beings engage in judgment every day. They judge quality and quantity. They judge distance and time. They categorize and summarize. Everyone with a mind engages in judgment.

Human beings also engage in judgment concerning good and evil, right and wrong, and saved and lost. They all have some standard by which they make these judgments. Those who are unregenerate make these judgments according to their depraved natures; they do not have the ability to make right spiritual judgments. The standard by which they judge is usually based on outward appearance, sincerity, and/or reputation. They judge themselves and others to be in God's favor based on their supposed "good deeds" while judging others to be out of God's favor based on the others' "bad deeds." Jesus exposed this self-righteous judgment in the Sermon on the Mount: "Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again" (Matthew 7:1-2).

In light of this, what does God command of those who are indwelt by the Holy Spirit? Does God say that, since by nature all men judge by the wrong standard, His people are to refrain from judging? Any student of Scripture knows that God does not say that; in fact, He commands the very opposite: the people of God are to make spiritual judgments. We are to be a judging people.

Many religionists today think it is humble and pious to say things like, "I can't judge. I don't know their hearts. I can't be sure. I'm not the Holy Spirit. I leave the judging to God." But what does God's Word say?

In the same chapter in which Jesus forbade self-righteous judgment, He said, "Give not that which is holy unto dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you" (v. 6), and "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. ... Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them" (vv. 15-20). How are we to know who the swine, dogs, and false prophets are without judging? Notice that Jesus did not say, "Give not that which is holy unto those whom you think are probably dogs ... Beware of those whom you think are probably false prophets ... Ye shall have a pretty good chance of being right if you look at their fruits." No! He said, "Ye SHALL know them." We SHALL know who the dogs, swine, and false prophets are. We SHALL know the state of their hearts.

God commands us, "Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers" (2 Corinthians 6:14). How can we obey this commandment if we can never be sure whether or not someone has an unbelieving heart? Notice that God did not say, "Do not be bound together with those who you think have a high probability of being unbelievers." God is stating that we will know who the unbelievers are and that we are not to be bound together with them. He goes on to mention unrighteousness, darkness, Belial, infidels, and idols as those things with which the believer is to have no fellowship (vv. 14-16); judgment of what unrighteousness, darkness, Belial, infidels, and idols are is an absolute necessity for God's people in order for us to "come out from among them, and be ye separate" and to "touch not the unclean [thing]" (v. 17). If you will not judge saved and lost, then you will not come out of Babylon (Revelation 18:4).

God commands us, "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world" (1 John 4:1). It cannot be clearer. God's people are to judge between false and true prophets. And we SHALL be able to know whether they are from God.

How shall we know? After all, we can't read people's minds. We can't directly see people's hearts. No, but Jesus states that we can judge the heart by judging the direct channel that comes from the heart: the mouth. After stating that "every tree is known by his own fruit" (Luke 6:44), Jesus states what that fruit is: "for out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh" (v. 45). We CAN judge the heart by what proceeds from the mouth. The words spoken are the fruit of the state of the heart.

But is this talking about just any words? Does this mean, for example, that if someone utters a vulgarity we are to judge the person unregenerate? Here is where judging righteous judgment comes in. The standard that the true believer uses to judge saved and lost is THE GOSPEL.

There are two types of speech by which we judge a person to be lost. The first is speech that confesses a false gospel. "If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed" (Galatians 1:9). "Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God" (2 John 9). Confession of a false gospel is a confession that any part of salvation is conditioned on the sinner. It opposes the true gospel of salvation conditioned on the atoning blood and imputed righteousness of Christ alone. It is speech that denies Christ (1 John 2:22-23; 4:3). It is speech that denies one's own sinfulness (1 John 1:8,10). It is confessed by those who, "being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God" (Romans 10:3).

The second is speech that tolerates and endorses a false gospel by "saying, Peace, peace; when [there is] no peace" (Jeremiah 6:14; 8:11). He who calls one who confesses a false gospel his "brother in Christ" speaks the lie of Satan, "Ye shall not surely die" (Genesis 3:4). He "speaks great swelling [words] of vanity" (2 Peter 2:18). God makes it very clear in 2 John 11 that he who speaks peace to one who confesses a false gospel "is partaker of his evil deeds" (see the article on 2 John 11 in this issue for a more extensive treatment of this verse). These are those who judge saved and lost not by right gospel doctrine but by outward appearance, morality, sincerity, and reputation.

Are Christians then to judge that these people are reprobate (i.e., destined for hell)? By no means. We cannot judge their eternal destiny by these words; this is only known by God. We are only to judge that they are now unregenerate. God might save some of these lost people who believe, confess, and tolerate a false gospel; some of them might be among God's elect. One thing is sure: if God saves them, they will no longer believe, confess, and tolerate a false gospel! Upon regeneration and conversion, God causes His people to believe and confess the one and only true gospel.

To most, this method of judgment sounds ridiculous. "You mean to tell me that you judge someone lost who doesn't have his doctrine just right?" In the area of the doctrine of Christ, which is the gospel, the Bible answers, "YES." The Bible does not make belief in right gospel doctrine a condition of salvation (in fact, it says that those who hold to this view are lost); but it does make belief in right gospel doctrine an inevitable and immediate result of salvation and a fruit by which we judge saved and lost.

Reader -- Are you one who opposes God's word by saying that you cannot judge saved and lost? (I would submit that most of you who say this do judge saved and lost in some instances based on some standard. If you see a woman who is a practicing harlot, would you say, "Well, I can't really judge her heart"?) Are you one who judges by the wrong standard? Are you one who confesses a false gospel? Are you one who tolerates and/or promotes those who confess a false gospel? Or are you one who judges saved and lost based on God's testimony and will not speak peace when there is no peace?

http://www.outsidethecamp.org/rightjudg.htm Author Marc Carpenter


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OfflinePanoramix
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Re: What is a Christian? [Re: fivepointer]
    #5783267 - 06/23/06 11:11 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Not a bad little article, the author certainly knows more about the matter than I do.  It's one of those enlightening pieces of writing that serve quite well to remind me why I've never considered myself to be christian.  For a starter, it pre-supposes the divine authorship and unerring translation of the Bible.  Well, sure, I mean, if God's ensuring that the saved are using only the right criteria by which to judge people by the very virtue of their savedness, it would stand to reason He can ensure that the Bible gets translated properly.  The all-caps on 'the gospel' is a charming touch, a persuasive argument in and of itself I dare say  :smirk: :rolleyes: :smirk:

I would say that the emphasis on only following the right scriptures and gospels is a hold-over from when their was more contention over any given gospel's authenticity and merit.  Some of those gospel-writers seem to be a little defensive, wouldn't you say?  Seems to me that if God's got my back in terms of ensuring His Word and only His Word are believed by true christians, I'd relax a little when it came to telling people what scriptures are proper and which aren't.  If God's Word isn't apparent to someone reading through a couple real gospels and a couple false ones than they aren't saved, and if God's Word can't save 'em, then just telling them which scriptures to follow would seem more detrimental to them and everyone else, particularly people who were able to distinguish God's Word for themselves.  I also enjoy how the article points out the strong contraction between Christ's 'judge not' shpiel and the whole 'judge dogs, swine, the misled, trees that don't produce fruit and so on' bit, but then the article makes no effort to reconcile the contraction.  Religious doublethink at it's finest!

'speech that tolerates and endorses a false gospel by "saying, Peace, peace; when [there is] no peace" (Jeremiah 6:14; 8:11).'
I did not know that, but I guess it serves as another explanation why religious nuts have such a hate-on for hippies and rap.  It's wrong to wish well upon the world, apparently.  I suppose it would fall under the whole 'everything that happens, happens in accordance with God's divine will' thought-killing braintrap.  Thanks for the baby-rape, God!  I'll be sure to hold You and only You accountable for my actions, too!  The inherent contractions in the Bible would seem to me to be evidence that it's been screwed around with too much in the intervening centuries to even be of use as a means of determining and serving God's will anymore.


--------------------
Don't worry, I'm wrong.


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Offlinecapliberty
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Re: What is a Christian? [Re: Panoramix]
    #5783305 - 06/23/06 11:39 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

To me a Christian has to be outlined in what Jesus proclaimed in his own words since he is Christ, he said all thoughs who believe in me and accept me as your lord and savior are my children, and he makes distinction that works is not belief, being Christ like alone without believing is less of being a Christian than a sinner who believes in Christ, according to the bible that faith in Christ is the redeeming factor not works, although I think it logical that faith and works both go hand n hand though, not that I believe this whole hardily, but in my experience when everything is all said and done belief in Christ makes a Christian, nothing else.


Edited by capliberty (06/23/06 11:50 AM)


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OfflineFospher
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Re: What is a Christian? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #5783915 - 06/23/06 03:51 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Well and you believe with all your heart you also follow that image and become it. So where's the contradiction?




Where do you get your image? Assumptions based on looking at a Christian icon don't build it, that's for sure.  :confused: :grin:

Many people have problems with Christianity that aren't even based on the religion itself. It's based on the people who worship it, the farisees, the hypocrites who wear their religion on their bumper sticker but contradict their morals at every turn. Jesus is the mold of man, the archetype, the image of perfection to base your life on that the NT so clearly paints an image of.  :smirk:


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010001100100001001000101!


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: What is a Christian? [Re: Schwammel]
    #5783986 - 06/23/06 04:16 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Schwammel said:
brilliant...now I must be devine

"Prove to me that you're no fool
walk across my swimming pool"




you already knew that, so why did you ask it?

I assume you were aiming at certain qualities of a sheep: weakness, need for protection and guidence, peacefullness etc.

Those are disadvantages to those who are so afraid of life that they feel a need to compleatly control it.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineTriplexiosis
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Re: What is a Christian? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5784285 - 06/23/06 06:11 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Imo a Christian is an anarchist
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_anarchism
:grin:


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"If there were no desire to heal, the damaged and broken met along this tedious path I've choosen here, I certainly would have walked away by now" Tool - Patient

"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye." Antoine de Saint-Exupery


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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: What is a Christian? [Re: Triplexiosis]
    #5784992 - 06/23/06 10:47 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

IMO, a christian is both an anarchist and a fascist.

Christ encompasses All, from the very beautiful to the very ugly.


--------------------
'You can go to a hospital
Get yourself cleaned out.'


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: What is a Christian? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #5786040 - 06/24/06 08:19 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

DoctorJ said:
IMO, a christian is both an anarchist and a fascist.

Christ encompasses All, from the very beautiful to the very ugly.




that's because you encompass things compatible with christ and those not, so sometimes christ feels to you as something beautifull, and sometimes as something ugly


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Offlinefivepointer
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Re: What is a Christian? [Re: Panoramix]
    #5787298 - 06/24/06 09:13 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Panoramix writes:
Not a bad little article, the author certainly knows more about the matter than I do. It's one of those enlightening pieces of writing that serve quite well to remind me why I've never considered myself to be christian. For a starter, it pre-supposes the divine authorship and unerring translation of the Bible. Well, sure, I mean, if God's ensuring that the saved are using only the right criteria by which to judge people by the very virtue of their savedness, it would stand to reason He can ensure that the Bible gets translated properly. The all-caps on 'the gospel' is a charming touch, a persuasive argument in and of itself I dare say...

I want to clarify some things about the article, the term "THE GOSPEL" is not referring to the "gospels" (ie Matthew, Luke, John, and Mark). The term "THE GOSPEL" is a term to mean what constitutes the faith, the doctrines believed, and is summed up as the person and work of Jesus Christ.

I also enjoy how the article points out the strong contraction between Christ's 'judge not' shpiel and the whole 'judge dogs, swine, the misled, trees that don't produce fruit and so on' bit, but then the article makes no effort to reconcile the contraction. Religious doublethink at it's finest!

The article addresses this point head on. The kind of judgment the unsaved religious world uses is usually based on outward appearance, sincerity, and/or reputation. Unsaved men judge by the wrong standard, Jesus forbade self-righteous judgment such as this. The unregenerated mind is not capable of discerning the right standard, or any other spiritual truth proclaimed in the scriptures. Christians judge by one standard alone, which is "THE GOSPEL", which is what is believed. What is believed is defined by doctrine. Doctrine speaks to who Christ is and what He has done. Christians make distinctions based on this standard, fellowship with other based on this standard. Christians are called to proclaim and defend what is believed.

It's wrong to wish well upon the world, apparently. I suppose it would fall under the whole 'everything that happens, happens in accordance with God's divine will' thought-killing braintrap. Thanks for the baby-rape, God! I'll be sure to hold You and only You accountable for my actions, too!

Fallen man would like to say they are not accountable, however this will not stand. Man was created good, man is accountable for every word, deed and thought.

The inherent contractions in the Bible would seem to me to be evidence that it's been screwed around with too much in the intervening centuries to even be of use as a means of determining and serving God's will anymore.

There are no inherent contradictions. The only contradiction lies in your own mind. God's Word is not "screwed around with". Not a hair falls from a head without God, so how can His Word not be preserved?


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OfflinePanoramix
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Re: What is a Christian? [Re: fivepointer]
    #5787534 - 06/24/06 10:34 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Ow ow ow ow ow ow!  My brain, it hurts! :weirdeyes: :bomb: :psychsplit:

"The term "THE GOSPEL" is a term to mean what constitutes the faith, the doctrines believed, and is summed up as the person and work of Jesus Christ."

And the person and work of Jesus Christ is summed up in the books written about his life, referred to as 'the Gospels'.  Unless you know of some other source of information about Jesus's life, I which case you should share it with the world at large, because they rest of humanity doesn't know about it.

"The kind of judgment the unsaved religious world uses is usually based on outward appearance, sincerity, and/or reputation."

And the article goes on to say that thorny trees are bad whereas fruit trees are good.  If that's not outward appearence, what is?  I suppose it's also a measurement of the trees' relative utility in the lives of humankind, but that just amount to reputation.  That hawthorn tree is bad, it's all thorny and inedible by reputation.  It's nice and shady and the berries can make a decent tea if you actually bother to look beyond that reputation, though.

"Give not that which is holy unto dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you" -Not fivepointer, but rather a Biblical passage.  All other quotations are from fivepointer, though.

So judge your swine and dogs unable to apprciate pearls, and assume they'll rend you.  More abitrary judgements based on appearence and reputation.  You can't judge without bias and basis, irregardfull* of what it says in the Good Book.

"Fallen man would like to say they are not accountable, however this will not stand. Man was created good, man is accountable for every word, deed and thought."
"Not a hair falls from a head without God, so how can His Word not be preserved?"

Do you see the contraction there?  I'm accountable for my deeds, but God's apparently the one making them happen.  If He doesn't like what I'm doing, but chooses not to intervene and he's the one who made me, how is He not at least in some small way responsible? If a parent finds out their kid is planning to go on a rampage through their school and shoot the place up with the agenda of killing lots of other kids, and the parent disapproves of the killing of kids, it up to the parent to take some action, there.  I'm not saying the parent is solely responsible for their kid's actions, but I mean, come on!  And you said God is responsible for every last little hair on or off my head, for my very existance in fact, and is much more capable of intervening to achieve exactly the results He desires.  How much more responsible for my screw-ups does that make him?

Personally, I'm not saying I'm not responsible for my actions, I'm saying I'm the only one responsible for my actions due to my disbelief in a concious and active God.


*I've been informed irregardless isn't a word because the 'ir' and the 'less' negate one another and hence the whole meaning is lost.  I like the 'irreg' part though, so irregardfull is just my way of sidestepping that little internal contradiction.


--------------------
Don't worry, I'm wrong.


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OfflineSchwammel
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Re: What is a Christian? [Re: Panoramix]
    #5787621 - 06/24/06 11:12 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

"""And the person and work of Jesus Christ is summed up in the books written about his life, referred to as 'the Gospels'. Unless you know of some other source of information about Jesus's life, I which case you should share it with the world at large, because they rest of humanity doesn't know about it."""

a friend of mine translates to the english, normally sanskit...but he's published 2 gospels from the aramaic to english...


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OfflinePanoramix
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Re: What is a Christian? [Re: Schwammel]
    #5787684 - 06/24/06 11:33 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Jumbo-props to that friend of yours. There are lots of gospels people ignore, and lots of people don't ignore Revelations, which to my mind seems like nothing more than a really bad trip. Glad I've never had such an unpleasant experience, myself.


--------------------
Don't worry, I'm wrong.


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OfflineSchwammel
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Re: What is a Christian? [Re: Panoramix]
    #5787697 - 06/24/06 11:37 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

me too


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Offlinefivepointer
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Re: What is a Christian? [Re: Panoramix]
    #5787988 - 06/25/06 12:58 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

"The term "THE GOSPEL" is a term to mean what constitutes the faith, the doctrines believed, and is summed up as the person and work of Jesus Christ."

And the person and work of Jesus Christ is summed up in the books written about his life, referred to as 'the Gospels'.


The term "Gospels" usually refers to just the four books Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.
The entire Bible, not just four books, speaks to the person and work of Christ. For the sake of the article "THE GOSPEL" refers to the doctrines that make up the beliefs of the faith.

"The kind of judgment the unsaved religious world uses is usually based on outward appearance, sincerity, and/or reputation."

And the article goes on to say that thorny trees are bad whereas fruit trees are good. If that's not outward appearence, what is? I suppose it's also a measurement of the trees' relative utility in the lives of humankind, but that just amount to reputation. That hawthorn tree is bad, it's all thorny and inedible by reputation. It's nice and shady and the berries can make a decent tea if you actually bother to look beyond that reputation, though.

"Give not that which is holy unto dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you" -Not fivepointer, but rather a Biblical passage. All other quotations are from fivepointer, though.

So judge your swine and dogs unable to apprciate pearls, and assume they'll rend you. More abitrary judgements based on appearence and reputation. You can't judge without bias and basis, irregardfull* of what it says in the Good Book.


Christain judgment is not arbitary. It is based on a standard of judgment, which is THE GOSPEL.

Luke 6:45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

Matthew 12:33-4
Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit. O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

The words spoken against Jesus showed the condition of their hearts. The unregenerate are always exposed by the words describes what they believe. Doctrine is a direct reflection of the heart. How do we know if someone is a bad tree, by the words that flow out of the mouth, which is a reflection of the heart. Only by words can one discern the fruit on the tree. The standard of judgment is doctrine, not reputation, sincerity, or outward appearance.


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OfflinePanoramix
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Re: What is a Christian? [Re: fivepointer]
    #5788683 - 06/25/06 07:48 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

"The term "Gospels" usually refers to just the four books Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.
The entire Bible, not just four books, speaks to the person and work of Christ. For the sake of the article "THE GOSPEL" refers to the doctrines that make up the beliefs of the faith."

Wow.  I'm going to go talk to this wall over here, as it seems to be listening to me far more attentively than you are.  I didn't even know I was only referring to four Books, I thought I was referring to the lot of them.  Not the Old Testament, though, as it isn't about Jesus and that seems to be all we're dealing with, here. 

As for that judgement stuff, you're still judging people, and basing it solely on what they're saying, now.  So some bloke who says 'Death to all babies' who then opens up a battered womens' shelter and works weekends in a soup kitchen is still evil?  Someone saying 'Blessed are the meek' who then kills and eats an entire daycare centre's worth of children is still good?

"how can ye, being evil, speak good things?"  Very very easily, it's called 'lying'.  You might want to look into it, or else you'll have a very hard time in today's society. :rolleyes:


--------------------
Don't worry, I'm wrong.


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