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Offlinefivepointer
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Re: What is a Christian? [Re: Panoramix]
    #5788732 - 06/25/06 08:57 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Panoramix writes:
Not the Old Testament, though, as it isn't about Jesus and that seems to be all we're dealing with, here.

Jesus plainly states that the OT speaks of Him.

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

John 5:46-47 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?


The OT is entirely about Jesus.

Ps 40:7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,
Heb 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.


As for that judgement stuff, you're still judging people, and basing it solely on what they're saying, now. So some bloke who says 'Death to all babies' who then opens up a battered womens' shelter and works weekends in a soup kitchen is still evil? Someone saying 'Blessed are the meek' who then kills and eats an entire daycare centre's worth of children is still good?

Christians judge based on THE GOSPEL. Spiritual judgment is based on what is believed about the person and work of Christ. The words spoken are a reflection of the heart. Christians do not judge based on things like, look how sincere that person is, or look how well respected so and so is. Or look at the good deeds of Mr. Y. These are not the basis to determine if someone is a Christian. The basis of determination is THE GOSPEL. I'm sorry if you can't see the point of the article.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: What is a Christian? [Re: fivepointer]
    #5788749 - 06/25/06 09:10 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

What is a Christian? A person who requires a title and a sense of identity.

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: What is a Christian? [Re: fivepointer]
    #5788760 - 06/25/06 09:16 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

fivepointer said:
Jesus plainly states that the OT speaks of Him.




Jesus purposely misled you! :shocked:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: What is a Christian? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #5788779 - 06/25/06 09:32 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Jeez is simply a role-model, an archetype or an avatar.
I don't know, if a messiah is allowed to 'conquer' earth in god's name, but he surely isn't crucified and his second coming will not kept secret. So Jeez is for sure NOT the messiah as described by the old scriptures, because he would have to come a third time and there is nothing written in the OT.
As this earth is the domain of humans, god has all the respect to not influence his will, as long it is not the will of humans for him to be present with them.

True followers of Christ can rise the urge to be with 'him', as like every 'enlightened' and 'spiritual' being (of every religion and every spiritual 'path') has the urge to, to make heaven on earth, the paradise for all humans in peaceful coexistence with all life.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: What is a Christian? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #5788793 - 06/25/06 09:42 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

What do you mean a third coming ? When did the second one happen?


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: What is a Christian? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5788795 - 06/25/06 09:44 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

After his crucification, the 'resurrection' where he showed to his principles is considered as his 'second coming'.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: What is a Christian? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #5788865 - 06/25/06 10:39 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

BlueCoyote said:
After his crucification, the 'resurrection' where he showed to his principles is considered as his 'second coming'.




Considered by whoom?

If that was his second comming it didn't fit the description as he described it. Not everyone saw him (only a few people), the earth wasn't destroyed and the dead didn't rise from their graves and the kingdom of heaven didn't come.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: What is a Christian? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5788919 - 06/25/06 11:08 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

"What is a Christian?"

From personal experience working with them over many years, some of the biggest hypocrites and righteous pricks and goody two shoe women you will ever meet. They have zero business ethics yet will preach to you all day long about your need to go to church to be "saved".


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: What is a Christian? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5788920 - 06/25/06 11:08 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Hmmm..we would have to ask the literals about that, too. I always thought this was considered his second coming. Especially all of the text was bound like to fit the prophecies to this 'resurrection' event.
'Not everyone saw him' - meaning, not everyone believes his second coming, so he let Thomas (?) touch his wounds.
'The earth wasn't destroyed' - for christians that means, since Jesus, the earthly powers have no power over the selected anymore, because Jesus dies for our sins (very constructed statement)
- 'dead didn't rise' - he himself did rise and he resurrected Lazarus.
- 'kingdom of heaven' - same as earth is destroyed: 'Jesus dies for our sins, so the heaven came'

You see, this is more constructed the way christians see it. I will wait for the real messiash, as he is described like in the apocalypse, or the OT. Necessarily I have not to wait, but I mean, I consider this as the 'real' event that shows the messiah, at the end of times.

Let's see who will sit on the throne next to g*d then :lol:

It will be some archetype.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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Offlinefivepointer
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Re: What is a Christian? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #5789132 - 06/25/06 01:04 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

BlueCoyote writes:
Jeez is simply a role-model, an archetype or an avatar.

No, Jesus was fully God and fully man, not some archetype or avatar.

Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

A mere archetype can not make the world:

Joh 1:10
He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

Heb 1:2
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Col 1 16-17
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

A mere archetype or avatar can not forgive sins. In fact the reason why He was so hated by the scribes and the Pharisees is because He stated that He could forgive sins, this made Him equal with God.

Lu 5:24 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power upon earth to forgive sins, (he said unto the sick of the palsy,) I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy couch, and go into thine house.

Lu 5:21 And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?


I don't know, if a messiah is allowed to 'conquer' earth in god's name, but he surely isn't crucified and his second coming will not kept secret. So Jeez is for sure NOT the messiah as described by the old scriptures, because he would have to come a third time and there is nothing written in the OT.

Jesus IS the Messiah described by the OT.

Paul taught that Jesus was the Messiah as described in the OT, and taught this using the OT, but most of the Jews would not hear him.
Many examples show this, here is just one:

Acts 28:23-28
And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not. And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers, Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive: For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.


After his crucification, the 'resurrection' where he showed to his principles is considered as his 'second coming'.

Since the NT was written after Christ was resurrected, and many verses mention His second coming, we know that the resurrection can not be the second coming.

Some false teachers were teaching that the resurrection was already past, but Paul points out that this teaching is error.

2Tim 2:18-19
Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Based on BlueCoyote's doctrine about the person and work of Christ I would not welcome him as a fellow Christian, but warn all about his doctrine that seeks to pervert THE GOSPEL.

I hope that he might repent and believe THE GOSPEL.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: What is a Christian? [Re: fivepointer]
    #5789143 - 06/25/06 01:10 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

fivepointer said:
No, Jesus was fully God and fully man, not some archetype or avatar.




No, Jesus was a monkey that was captured in Africa. They put a suit on him and wheeled him from city to city, begging for food and bits of money. He was not crucified, but stoned, after he went rabid and bit a small child.

"THE GOSPEL" is simply a collection of writings by a schizophrenic in France in the year 1985, intended as children's stories. I apologize that you have been so misled concerning this. :frown:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: What is a Christian? [Re: fivepointer]
    #5789229 - 06/25/06 01:52 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

No fivepointer, it is not me who tainted the gospels. It has been done times before and I only seek the truth behind, as I am fully aware of the concept of that entity called god by the christs who believe therein by the rules of some ancient hebrew doctrines.
These believes are not far from my believes if they wouldn't be that tainted by human falseness of power and greed.

Perhaps I mixed the word Jesus with Christ as I entitled 'that' as a role model, avatar or similar.
Jeez was one who received the christ-consciousness at a very high level, indeed and that should be possible again.
The question is, why doesn't it happen again ?!?

In our days this should be quite an event as it is said that one can do wonders with it.

Perhaps the 'wonders' of the christs go unrecognized, as they do it in real life everytime and have not to postulate about it.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: What is a Christian? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #5789256 - 06/25/06 02:02 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

BlueCoyote said:
No fivepointer, it is not me who tainted the gospels.




The gospels aren't tainted, they are simply just fiction... fiction created by a schizophrenic Frenchmen who thought they were appropriate for children... did you know that his publisher edited out the part about Jesus being a monkey? If you read the dude's autobiography, he explains why... Also, they left out the part about this big green dragon, who flys around and masterbates everyone all the time...

I really think they should have left that one in, but why he felt it was all right for children to read, I'm not sure... :confused:

Interestingly, John 3:16 used to read: "For the monkey so loved the world that he gave his one and only banana, that whoever believes in its nutritious value shall not be bored but have a new tv."

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: What is a Christian? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5789289 - 06/25/06 02:15 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

I found a  link  that substantiates my claim...

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: What is a Christian? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5789293 - 06/25/06 02:17 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

:rofl:
I would love to read the originals of that french writer :grin:

edit: :rofl2: I discovered your link


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


Edited by BlueCoyote (06/25/06 02:22 PM)


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: What is a Christian? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5789297 - 06/25/06 02:17 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

I hope you are making fun of fivepointer and not the actual figure of Jesus, because he was really a nice guy


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: What is a Christian? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5789305 - 06/25/06 02:22 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
I hope you are making fun of fivepointer and not the actual figure of Jesus, because he was really a nice guy




I'm not making fun of anyone, simply citing information that I received through other sources. Anyways, it seems as though Jesus wasn't actually a guy, but a monkey. Apparently he was a really nice monkey, however. Click the link that I found, it doesn't go too in-depth, but it sort of explains it a bit more... also, the musikk is sort of crazy. :wink:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflinePanoramix
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Re: What is a Christian? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5789342 - 06/25/06 02:44 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

'No, Jesus was a monkey that was captured in Africa. They put a suit on him and wheeled him from city to city, begging for food and bits of money. He was not crucified, but stoned, after he went rabid and bit a small child.

"THE GOSPEL" is simply a collection of writings by a schizophrenic in France in the year 1985, intended as children's stories.'

THANK YOU! Trying to debate these guys is like trying to eat a bellyful of brick, then fly off one's balcony. You can put in as much effort as you like, but it just ain't getting you anywhere. A voice of reason is just what this thread needed.


--------------------
Don't worry, I'm wrong.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: What is a Christian? [Re: Panoramix]
    #5789344 - 06/25/06 02:46 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Click the link for more information.

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflinePanoramix
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Re: What is a Christian? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5789421 - 06/25/06 03:26 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

"Click the link for more information."

I hardly needed to. The explanation you gave just had the ring of truth to it. But it's true, the link does provide some nice additional detail. I'm not getting any music though.

It IS a shame that children are such prudes, it sounds like that dragon was a fairly vital character.


--------------------
Don't worry, I'm wrong.


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