Home | Community | Message Board

Cannabis Seeds UK
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: PhytoExtractum Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   OlympusMyco.com Olympus Myco Polypropylene Grow Bags   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale   Original Sensible Seeds Feminized Cannabis Seeds   Myyco.com Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale   Mushroom-Hut Liquid Cultures   North Spore Injection Grain Bag   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | Next >  [ show all ]
OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Female User Gallery


Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
Re: Christian churches supporting war and bloodshed [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
    #7560954 - 10/25/07 09:51 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

jonathan_206 said:
Quote:


"You are My friends if you do what I command you."


This is exactly how I am about friendship. I mean really that's what friendship means. Making people do what you command. It's totally true.




That's just reality. If someone behaves evil, you do not associate with them, you cannnot have fellowship with them. And they and we are under his authority.




And what makes us stay there? :smirk:
I suspect that those who do, have developed some sort of fetish which is about self pity and mental masturbation.
It's no more different than those children who accept to submit to their idiotic and manic parents, just because "they gave them life".
It's because of comments like the one you just made, that people start to hate religion.
Live ans let live. Those who feel the urge to kiss authority asses are free do so, as long as they keep it quiet and don't impose their "truth" on others.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinebackfromthedead
Activated


Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 3,592
Last seen: 16 years, 17 hours
Re: Christian churches supporting war and bloodshed [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7560963 - 10/25/07 09:54 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

The day will come.
:uptosomething:
:lol:


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Female User Gallery


Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
Re: Christian churches supporting war and bloodshed [Re: backfromthedead]
    #7560978 - 10/25/07 09:56 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Usually after the night :lol:

At least that's how it happens, here on Earth :shrug:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinebackfromthedead
Activated


Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 3,592
Last seen: 16 years, 17 hours
Re: Christian churches supporting war and bloodshed [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7560981 - 10/25/07 09:57 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Dang I hope so.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleZShroom
Stranger
Male User Gallery

Registered: 07/08/07
Posts: 1,061
Re: Christian churches supporting war and bloodshed [Re: backfromthedead]
    #7561349 - 10/25/07 11:35 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

:tarzan:Jesus was a black man:tarzan:


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Christian churches supporting war and bloodshed [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
    #7562267 - 10/26/07 09:25 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

jonathan_206 said:
Quote:


"You are My friends if you do what I command you."


This is exactly how I am about friendship. I mean really that's what friendship means. Making people do what you command. It's totally true.




That's just reality. If someone behaves evil, you do not associate with them, you cannnot have fellowship with them. And they and we are under his authority.




I thought your Jesus dude hung out with sinners? He should bitch slap himself.

So maybe this is "reality" in the Bizzaro world you inhabit and I gladly leave that world to you.

I would much rather take my chances with the "sinners" then the "saved".


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (10/26/07 09:26 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinebackfromthedead
Activated


Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 3,592
Last seen: 16 years, 17 hours
Re: Christian churches supporting war and bloodshed [Re: Icelander]
    #7562314 - 10/26/07 09:37 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

For sure. I'd also feel at home.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Christian churches supporting war and bloodshed [Re: backfromthedead]
    #7562373 - 10/26/07 09:55 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Home is where we are. Those who fear living in this chaotic world need to create a fantasy where all the rules for living are laid out on some stone tablets and they won't have to think for themselves and take the consequences. As I said it's a failure of nerve. It's the undoing of our species. If it isn't religion then it's politics, or your team, race, or peer group. All needing someone to tell them how and where to go.:syringe:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBlueCoyote
Beyond
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 6,697
Loc: Between
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
Re: Christian churches supporting war and bloodshed [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7563012 - 10/26/07 12:04 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Yes, it's some kind of authority-trip, definitively !
They give up all their personal responsibility to authority.
Unfortunately, the bible they speak of is badly influenced by human authority, not g*d one's anymore.
Ugly that :frown:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinea_guy_named_ai
Stranger
Male
Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 767
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
Re: Christian churches supporting war and bloodshed [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7563541 - 10/26/07 02:20 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:


Quote:

That's just reality. If someone behaves evil, you do not associate with them, you cannnot have fellowship with them. And they and we are under his authority.






And what makes us stay there? :smirk:




You're supposed to.

Quote:

I suspect that those who do, have developed some sort of fetish which is about self pity and mental masturbation.




Not a very mature comment, and a very wrong one at that. It's true that I look for mercy from God, but aside from that, I have no sexual fetish involving self pity, and I don't see any substatiation in that comment.Self pity by the way, is not necessarily wrong. What do you mean "mental masturbation"?

Quote:

It's no more different than those children who accept to submit to their idiotic and manic parents, just because "they gave them life".
It's because of comments like the one you just made, that people start to hate religion.




People should obey their parents because God told them to. If it wasn't for God's authority and standard of morality we would have no reason to be obligated morally to obey our parents. But obeying your parents is a good thing. Doesn't it seem odd that you have so much hatred for authority, except your own of course.

Quote:

Live ans let live. Those who feel the urge to kiss authority *** are free do so, as long as they keep it quiet and don't impose their "truth" on others.




I don't have to keep quiet, and expressing my views and even trying to save others is not imposing my views on others.


icelander:

Quote:

I thought your Jesus dude hung out with sinners? He should lalala slap himself.

So maybe this is "reality" in the Bizzaro world you inhabit and I gladly leave that world to you.

I would much rather take my chances with the "sinners" then the "saved".

Jesus never "hung out" with sinners. He associated with them in an attempt to convert them. When it says he became friends with sinners
and tax colletors, it is because those people had turned from their sins and decided to follow and listen to Jesus as his desciple.





You would rather take your chances with sinners than saved? I think that's an awful choice, you'll have much better chance of being judged,slandered,beaten,hated,cursed,and all manner of evil poured out upon you then you will with a True Christian. Doesn't make sense at all really.


Quote:

Home is where we are. Those who fear living in this chaotic world need to create a fantasy where all the rules for living are laid out on some stone tablets and they won't have to think for themselves and take the consequences. As I said it's a failure of nerve. It's the undoing of our species. If it isn't religion then it's politics, or your team, race, or peer group. All needing someone to tell them how and where to go.:syringe:




This is the often repeated explanation for religion, but it's absolutely baseless. Even if there are some people who are just going along with the crowd for comfort, that does not mean that a need for guidance and authority and God is intrinsically fear based. It isintrinsically fear based, but there are different types of fear.  Fear, by the way, can be a good thing. It warns us when we are in danger, and can help us open our eyes to the truth we don't want to see.

But as it stands, I firmly believe that True Christianity is ironicly a path that very few people follow. I find that everyone who complains about conforming to the status quo or comforming to a religious base out of fear are themselves conforming to a culture of uncomformity. They think just as much, if not less for themselves then people who conform to religion out of ignorance.

And where is the idea that subjecting yourself to religious authority means you don't think for yourself? I find that absolutely false, and if anything I think much more carefully when it comes to matters of spirituality and religion.

Edited by jonathan_206 (10/26/07 10:19 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Female User Gallery


Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
Re: Christian churches supporting war and bloodshed [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
    #7563627 - 10/26/07 02:51 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

You're supposed to.




I'm not "supposed" to do anything. Never had never will.
It feels damn good. :smirk:

Quote:

Not a very mature comment, and a very wrong one at that. It's true that I look for mercy from God, but aside from that, I have no sexual fetish involving self pity, and I don't see any substatiation in that comment.Self pity by the way, is not necessarily wrong. What do you mean "mental masturbation"?




The term "fetish" doesn't refer only to sexuality.
Let's take a look, shall we? :sherlock:

Quote:

fet·ish      /ˈfɛtɪʃ, ˈfitɪʃ/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[fet-ish, fee-tish] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. an object regarded with awe as being the embodiment or habitation of a potent spirit or as having magical potency.
2. any object, idea, etc., eliciting unquestioning reverence, respect, or devotion: to make a fetish of high grades.
3. Psychology. any object or nongenital part of the body that causes a habitual erotic response or fixation.




I hope this got you out of the dark.
Mental masturbation as in finding pleasure and comfort in thinking that you must obey.
This is a commonly spread disease in our society and it's been like that for a very long while.
It's when all your actions become excusable and free of responsibility because you're only doing what you "should". I used to do that a lot so I know very well what I'm talking about. :grin: Escapism results from fear towards taking your life in your own hands and become responsible. And we usually run away from that because we're living in a culture which is inclined towards punishing.
What we fail to see is that we can always refuse to get punished. :smirk:

Quote:

People should obey their parents because God told them to. If it wasn't for God's authority and standard of morality we would have no reason to be obligated morally to obey our parents.




What you said, with other words: we should obey our parents because we should. If we shouldn't then we wouldn't. :lol:
I hope you realize the flaws in your logic. :satansmoking:

Quote:

But obeying your parents is a good thing.




And how's that a good thing? :strokebeard:
There are parents which tell their children to become doctors when they really want to become artists. Why should those children listen to their parents? How does it all make sense?
There are fathers which sexually abuse their daughters. Should they submit?
The fact that a child is a result of their parents having sex and their mother deciding not to to abort them does not mean that the child MUST do what their parents tell them.

Quote:

Doesn't it seem odd that you have so much hatred for authority, except your own of course.




No it doesn't seem "odd". :what:
What exactly do you mean by that statement?
I don't "hate" authority, I simply disagree with it and take the proper actions on defending myself against it.
Also I don't impose my "authority" upon others.
Please make this discussion less ambiguous.

Quote:

I don't have to keep quiet, and expressing my views and even trying to save others is not imposing my views on others.




If you want to express your fairyland views, do it in the Mysticism forum.
This forum is addressed to logical discussions and your "views" are challenged.
Wanting to "save" someone is nothing more than a Messianic Complex. Also a wide spread disease in our culture.
More info about the messianic complex:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messianic_complex
http://www.thehope.org/mescompl.htm


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMarkostheGnostic
Elder
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida Flag
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
Re: Christian churches supporting war and bloodshed [Re: Icelander]
    #7564318 - 10/26/07 06:40 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Icelander my friend, may I kindly command you to direct your disdain to the perseverating poster and not to the Archetype (the Castendian "Mold of Man" if you will) of Humankind of which we are ALL expressions. The word command in this verse can be interpreted variously in the first place, and in the second place our poster has a 'fixed idea' which constellates around power and control. As we know, friendship is based on philias, a form of love, not on control which is diametrically opposed to love. He is speaking to an interchangable master-slave or dominance-submission relationship whether human or divine in his eyes.

You must remember that the Bizarro world in Superman comics was actually a cubical planet! This would just not hold up on a planetary, rotational, gravitational reality, but it is an apt illustration. What comes to my mind is the living fluidity of a simple amoeba's pseudopodia. Perfect life for this obsessional religionist is an amoeba which moves in square-wave patterns rather than in curves.

Better yet is the example of the Borg in 'Voyager' - "We are the Borg. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile." The Borg were cybernetic hybrids of machines with one-time living beings from different worlds. Once one was "assimilated," one became one with the Borg mind which was modelled after a bee hive. One became the hive mind and lost all individuality in "the collective." However, every drone did the bidding of 'the queen' who was evil in her power to command her species to amoebically engulf and assimilate any and all life forms, against their free wills into the collective. Seven-of-Nine, the gorgeous and brilliant human female who had been freed from the collective, related the existential isolation, anxiety and even fear that her freedom brought along with disengagement from the collective hive mind. There was a comfort in being a drone to this totalitarian collective which was commanded by the voracious queen who only wanted to expand the Borg existence until all different species and life forms of the galaxy were subsumed under Borg oneness. A fine analogy to Christian or Islamic fundamentalism in their identical imperialism.

However, Seven-of-Nine began to learn to become human, and in so doing she acquired a much higher sense of oneness, based on true friendship, that was 'commanded' by an internal locus of 'control' which was NO control because it was based on love and respect of her crew mates. She acted from a locus which as yet escapes our poster's comprehension of what scriptures allude to. There are other Bible verses where Iesus calls His 'disciples' friends, and there are the scribal deletions and distortions which occult Iesus' relationship with Miriam called Magdalene, replacing her roles with John or Peter. He requires years of study to catch up to or catch onto the ability to read the space between the scriptural lines. He sees only Yang and does not see Yin, and he does not see that one completely defines the other.

When one learns Hebrew at a child, they place a variety of symbols below the consonants like linguistic 'training wheels' in order to teach concretely how to read. Later, all vowel symbols are removed and one must learn how to place the vowel sounds in the written text from within one's own mind in order to read the purely consonantal Torah. Then, one must completely abandon the Hebrew block letters of the consonants for Hebrew script (again without vowels) which is unrecognizable and looks a lot like Arabic. Again, one must draw upon acquired previous knowledge of linguistic principles, now in one's own mind through acquired experience, in order to read, pronounce, interpret and comprehend. Like Biblical Greek, there is no punctuation. This English literalist is operating on an interpretational level that is like English transliteration of Hebrew words into English phonetic equivalents, only it is not linguistics we're discussing it is meanings. It is so far removed from the original Ideas that it is merely the descriptions of the symbols that were intended to impart the Ideas. He is looking at the finger which points to the moon. He does not see the moon at all.

I am finished.

Edited by MarkostheGnostic (10/26/07 06:47 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
Re: Christian churches supporting war and bloodshed [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
    #7564459 - 10/26/07 07:34 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

jonathan_206 said:
The Bible is a book with writing, just like any other book.




Trying to justify that the Bible's objective meaning is easily interpreted and evident by asserting that it is just like any other book is misleading and not true.

Fact is, the Bible is not just like any other book. The Bible's unique history belies the notion of it being like any other book, where one author sits down and writes an organized, thoughtful conveyance of intended meaning.

Quote:


It's not as if it's awash in fundamentally ambiguous language like alchemy or something. The bible is able to be determined and it's doctrines are not ambiguous.




What is contained within The Bible is within a wide range of interpretation, not to mention numerous translations over thousands of years. If the doctrines within it are not ambigious, it, quite likely, has less to do with original expression, and moreso with how individuals have expressed what was once written.

Of course, what is in question is the ideas accessible right now, as the question as to what was once intended, or whether or not the writings are "the word of g*d", are entirely unanswerable questions. The point to be made, clearly, is that, within the present form of the writings, there is still a wide range of potential interpretation - there is no clear, objective meaning that is being conveyed, especially when we are referring to an overall, concise, all-inclusive "doctrine".

Quote:


But it is true that it deals with matters of faith and belief, and for this reason it is important to recognize how great an effect personal bias plays. But personal bias is inescapable, thus it is most reasonable to reocognise your own bias. The bibles doctrine is not undefendable, it is not undebatable, and for those that know it, it can be explained in concepts able to be grasped by anyone. The reason people have so many different interpretations, is because of their personal bias.Reason dictates that the bible does not support so many interpretations.

Whether God wrote the bible or not, it's theme is very singular and coherent and the bible's interpetation rests upon the single interpretation that was intended to be conveyed through the words by the Author.





This is all very true, and I don't deny that there isn't valuable meaning and expression within the Bible. :smile: I am simply casting doubt onto to the idea that there is a singular, clearly accessible, overall theme, or outlined path. I find specific meanings and specific intention spread throughout, which each individual considers and interprets how they will relate the meaning together to form their path. I do not see one path contained or expressed within it. :shrug:

Quote:


A real Christian is one who really obeys Christ and obeys the doctrine of Christ. That it. To understand who a real Christian is, read the bible and find out. But take heed to Jesus' warning : be careful how you hear.




This is another point that I am clearly critical of. There is no "real" Christian. The identity of being a Christian is one that each individual applies to themselves or others for their own reasons, associating with that identity their own meaning. It means something different to everyone, and there clearly cannot be an objective meaning. The idea of how one obeys Christ and a conception of a doctrine is different for everyone.

There is only you, and the ideas that you choose to live in relation to, your path. There is no "real Christian"; there is no "Christian". These are merely abstract terms that could never define the totality and culmination of one's own existance, and applying them to our own nature serves no beneficial end.


Quote:


How is this confusing? Voting necessitates pushing your beliefs, your morality, your personal convictions on others, for better or for worse. This is not an abstract conception. Voting necessitates judging others. When you vote, you actively push your beliefs on others, including what you think they should be arrested for, and condemned. You might just as well sit in a judges seat, and interpret  the law, and judge others.




People make decisions, whether or not they choose to cast a vote. Voting is no different than any other action one takes that affects the course of one's life. The fact that individuals make decisions cannot be denied. Everyone makes judgement - the simple fact that you personally make assertions regarding whether or not an individual is a "real Christian" demonstrates this very clearly.

Quote:


Not only this, but the bible in obvious language, tells us Christians to mind our own business, and not be involved in worldly matters. What greater worldly matter then democracy?




Define worldly matters. Everything we engage in as human beings is a "worldly matter". :shrug:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinea_guy_named_ai
Stranger
Male
Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 767
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
Re: Christian churches supporting war and bloodshed [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7564923 - 10/26/07 10:00 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:


    jonathan_206 said:
    The Bible is a book with writing, just like any other book.

fireworks:

Trying to justify that the Bible's objective meaning is easily interpreted and evident by asserting that it is just like any other book is misleading and not true.




No, it's not misleading at all. And when we compare it to other ancient historical artifacts we find it is more reliable and has more evidence then them all by leaps and bounds. 24,000+ pieces of manuscript and so much secondary and tertiary evidence. It would take weeks to talk about it all surely. Scripture is not ambiguous and although there are some parts that are hard to interpret for some, once someone is aquianted with scripture it's not true at all. It's probably much more difficult to try to understand shakespear.
Quote:


Fact is, the Bible is not just like any other book. The Bible's unique history belies the notion of it being like any other book, where one author sits down and writes an organized, thoughtful conveyance of intended meaning.




It's what the Bible talks about, the words and message it has that makes it so different. And your last sentence I think is really a vague attack  because of your overall dislike for the bibles content and message.
   
Quote:

jonathan_206:

    It's not as if it's awash in fundamentally ambiguous language like alchemy or something. The bible is able to be determined and it's doctrines are not ambiguous.

fireworks:

What is contained within The Bible is within a wide range of interpretation, not to mention numerous translations over thousands of years. If the doctrines within it are not ambigious, it, quite likely, has less to do with original expression, and moreso with how individuals have expressed what was once written.




It's true that many people have interpereted the bible differently from one another. And this supports what I have already admitted, that bias is the culprit. But this by itself does not make my belief subjective.It is either right or wrong, just like everybody elses. But in reality the bible does not have a wide range of interpretation, and the bibles we have to day for the most part are not extremely different in my opinion at all. And the important thing is that there is a consensus in the manuscripts, and there is that for sure.
Quote:


Of course, what is in question is the ideas accessible right now, as the question as to what was once intended, or whether or not the writings are "the word of g*d", are entirely unanswerable questions.




that's your opinion that they are entirely unanswerable questions.I believe that is false.

Th
Quote:

e point to be made, clearly, is that, within the present form of the writings, there is still a wide range of potential interpretation - there is no clear, objective meaning that is being conveyed, especially when we are referring to an overall, concise, all-inclusive "doctrine".




There is no way I know of that I can convince you that there is a clear objective meaning if you have read scripture and come to this conclusion. But there are many people who disagree with you, including myself, and why don't you click on my sig and see how ambiguous that is. Not abiguous at all.

   
Quote:

jonathan_206

    But it is true that it deals with matters of faith and belief, and for this reason it is important to recognize how great an effect personal bias plays. But personal bias is inescapable, thus it is most reasonable to reocognise your own bias. The bibles doctrine is not undefendable, it is not undebatable, and for those that know it, it can be explained in concepts able to be grasped by anyone. The reason people have so many different interpretations, is because of their personal bias.Reason dictates that the bible does not support so many interpretations.



    Whether God wrote the bible or not, it's theme is very singular and coherent and the bible's interpetation rests upon the single interpretation that was intended to be conveyed through the words by the Author.


fireworks:

This is all very true, and I don't deny that there isn't valuable meaning and expression within the Bible. :smile: I am simply casting doubt onto to the idea that there is a singular, clearly accessible, overall theme, or outlined path. I find specific meanings and specific intention spread throughout, which each individual considers and interprets how they will relate the meaning together to form their path. I do not see one path contained or expressed within it.


:shrug:

That's remarkable to me, because I think for anyone who has studied scripture intently and learned about the story of the bible, it is that It is singular in God's purpose of salvation of humanity from sin and death, pointing forward to Jesus Christ. Everything in the bible is directly or indirectly related with God's plan of salvation for humanity.



   
Quote:

jonathan_206

    A real Christian is one who really obeys Christ and obeys the doctrine of Christ. Thats it. To understand who a real Christian is, read the bible and find out. But take heed to Jesus' warning : be careful how you hear.

fireworks:

This is another point that I am clearly critical of. There is no "real" Christian. The identity of being a Christian is one that each individual applies to themselves or others for their own reasons, associating with that identity their own meaning. It means something different to everyone, and there clearly cannot be an objective meaning. The idea of how one obeys Christ and a conception of a doctrine is different for everyone.





No, it's not different for everyone. It's all about discernment and having an open heart. The ink on the paper, the message is written in coherent language for people to understand. It is objective. If people have a different opinion about that material, that does not make it subjective. It is weighed against the evidence. That's how real science works. We can read and understand and come to a common understanding about a lot of other materials, even more difficult to understand.

Quote:


There is only you, and the ideas that you choose to live in relation to, your path. There is no "real Christian"; there is no "Christian". These are merely abstract terms that could never define the totality and culmination of one's own existance, and applying them to our own nature serves no beneficial end.





A real Christian is one who obeys Christ. That is the definition that scripture gives itself.

 
Quote:

jonathan_206:

    How is this confusing? Voting necessitates pushing your beliefs, your morality, your personal convictions on others, for better or for worse. This is not an abstract conception. Voting necessitates judging others. When you vote, you actively push your beliefs on others, including what you think they should be arrested for, and condemned. You might just as well sit in a judges seat, and interpret the law, and judge others.

fireworks:

People make decisions, whether or not they choose to cast a vote. Voting is no different than any other action one takes that affects the course of one's life. The fact that individuals make decisions cannot be denied. Everyone makes judgement - the simple fact that you personally make assertions regarding whether or not an individual is a "real Christian" demonstrates this very clearly.




voting is A LOT different than merely stating an opinion. That is not judging. When you vote, you are actively judging others through the tax system, police system, justice department, laws etc. I do not, I must not go around judging others in this way, this is judging others, really judging others, and I'm sad that you cannot make the distinction.
Quote:


    jonathan_206Z:

    Not only this, but the bible in obvious language, tells us Christians to mind our own business, and not be involved in worldly matters. What greater worldly matter then democracy?

fireworks:

Define worldly matters. Everything we engage in as human beings is a "worldly matter". :shrug:




That's not true, and that's not reasonable.  If you disagree, I don't know how to convince you except to say that you've entirely missed the
entire context that passage is in.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Christian churches supporting war and bloodshed [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
    #7566668 - 10/27/07 12:34 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

People should obey their parents because God told them to.

Especially parents who rape beat and torture their children. Your thinking is so black and white it makes me chuckle.


You would rather take your chances with sinners than saved? I think that's an awful choice,


Yeah I already know what you think.:tongue: My most loving and trustable friends are non-Christian. I wouldn't trade them for anything.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
Re: Christian churches supporting war and bloodshed [Re: Icelander]
    #7566683 - 10/27/07 12:43 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

I wouldn't trade them for anything.





Not even this very rare 1918 Donnelly card?



--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Christian churches supporting war and bloodshed [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7566688 - 10/27/07 12:44 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Done.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinea_guy_named_ai
Stranger
Male
Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 767
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
Re: Christian churches supporting war and bloodshed [Re: Icelander]
    #7569300 - 10/28/07 09:58 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

jonathan:

People should obey their parents because God told them to.

icelander:

Especially parents who rape beat and torture their children. Your thinking is so black and white it makes me chuckle.




What's the purpose of government if noone obeys when they don't want to? Of course I recognize that their are evil parents, but we cannot go making a new law for every single thing. (you must obey your parents in not putting your hand in the cookie jar; you may disobey your parents when you think they are being mean to you) It's the responsibility of the parent to make right decisions in raising their kids, and it's a real double standard when people like you have children, and want them to obey. That's not reasonable, and it doesn't work. Children should honor and obey their parents, but this doesn't mean they can't think for themselves.

I believe that in extreme cases like the one you pointed out it's the job and duty of government which God has established to root out evil people like this. But I don't have a hopeless attitude where I think that If noone comes to rescue of the child from the authority of their parents then they're helpless. The Bible teaches that God won't give people more than they can handle, that they can find a way out with Him,and I believe this.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineshakercee
Atheistic Mystic
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/08/07
Posts: 606
Loc: Here and there
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
Re: Christian churches supporting war and bloodshed [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
    #7569361 - 10/28/07 10:30 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

What do they teach in church about other religions, beliefs?

I have a woman, who is a converted christian, next to me at my office. Everyone now and then someone in my office, mostly a Hindu, would visit a temple and distribute sacred offerings (prasadam they call it) to their colleagues. But invariably she wouldn't take it. In fact, once she took it by mistake and she went and spit it out. what's wrong with taking these offerings? Why do they shun other deities?


--------------------
Pray, v.: To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy - Ambrose Bierce

Medical science has confirmed what the male world has known intuitively for millenia: that scratching your ass is a great aid to complex thinking.

Its God's responsibility to forgive the terrorist organizations such as Jaish, Lashkar etc.
Its our responsibility to arrange the meeting between them and god."
- Indian Armed Forces

"Hey Monkey!! Get Funky" - Tarzan and Jane

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinea_guy_named_ai
Stranger
Male
Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 767
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
Re: Christian churches supporting war and bloodshed [Re: shakercee]
    #7569442 - 10/28/07 11:12 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

What do they teach in church about other religions, beliefs?

I have a woman, who is a converted christian, next to me at my office. Everyone now and then someone in my office, mostly a Hindu, would visit a temple and distribute sacred offerings (prasadam they call it) to their colleagues. But invariably she wouldn't take it. In fact, once she took it by mistake and she went and spit it out. what's wrong with taking these offerings? Why do they shun other deities?




Because Christians don't believe in other deities.

for a Christian to knowingly consume something like that would be to give the impression to others that consuming such a religious sacrement is acceptable and could cause others to stumble, who see her comsuming it and feel that it must then be acceptable, or stumble in some other manner. It gives the impression that the other religion is respected and acceptable.

Christianity teaches they are not acceptable and does not respect them, and I have a hard time understanding why so many people do not grasp this concept. It is one of the most repeated aspects of Christianity and the Bible.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: PhytoExtractum Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   OlympusMyco.com Olympus Myco Polypropylene Grow Bags   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale   Original Sensible Seeds Feminized Cannabis Seeds   Myyco.com Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale   Mushroom-Hut Liquid Cultures   North Spore Injection Grain Bag   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Christian Nations and War
( 1 2 3 all )
Swami 3,769 40 01/05/03 05:42 PM
by Anonymous
* Space Impact Responsible for the Survival of Christianity? Jackal 916 5 06/24/03 02:24 PM
by fireworks_god
* Christianity, Colonialism, Capitalism and Islam. atomikfunksoldier 2,024 14 07/14/03 07:44 AM
by gnrm23
* The corrupted church of today.
( 1 2 all )
HidingInPlainSight 3,882 26 02/19/04 12:24 PM
by Strumpling
* Being christian and doing shrooms
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )
tastyshroom 9,510 93 11/01/03 09:56 PM
by PsiloKitten
* christianity sancho 2,128 18 01/12/03 08:32 AM
by FatNug
* For any Christians who may have an interest in converting... *DELETED*
( 1 2 3 all )
OkEyToKeY 4,782 51 01/14/04 06:53 AM
by cybrbeast
* The 'forgiving' church
( 1 2 3 all )
SeussA 3,488 41 05/02/04 09:41 PM
by DankBluntZ

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
5,940 topic views. 1 members, 4 guests and 33 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.024 seconds spending 0.005 seconds on 13 queries.