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InvisibleUlysees
Power of Lard

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 5,060
Objective, real, imaginary... same thing
    #543806 - 02/07/02 04:22 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

I was laying in the dark last night, listening to Holywood and then some other music, and as I lay there I was watching some pretty intense visuals. I wasn't on anything, but I have visuals pretty much constantly now, they look really nice in the dark. In total darkness, I saw a night sky and lots of things happening. In partial darkness I saw a lot of shapes and colors etc... Anyhow, that's not the point of this post.

I was thinking about objective reality, reality, imagination, the mind, perception, and everything else. The body is a chemical machine. Over the ages we have evolved to be able to exist in our surroundings. Our bodies and our senses are now tuned to see, hear, touch, smell, taste, digest, and breathe our surroundings.

But: Because that is what we perceive does not mean that is reality. With a combination of senses developed to help us survive as best we can on this planet, we find ourselves in "reality". But it is only a type of reality, a portion of reality, a figment of reality.
We are machines developed to roam the countryside and eat, drink and sleep. If you put scuba gear on the machine, you can put it under water and let it cruise around. If you put wings on the machine, you can drop it off a cliff and let it soar. If you put a space ship around the machine, you can launch into the most hostile environment yet.

What am I talking about? I don't know, this is proving to be very difficult to put into words. Here goes... The brain is a chemical machine, the hub of the larger chemical machine known as the human body. The brain is set up to perceive this world, this set of stimulus, because the body needs it to survive. If you alter the brains chemistry, you might "trip", and this might be nothing more than the brain altering the stimulus it receives, but that doesn't make it any less real. The stimulus we recieve normally interacts with our bodies on a regular basis, making that seem very "real". But, the machine was designed to interact with that stimulus, just as a boat was designed to interact with water, and not pavement. That doesn't make pavement any less real from a boats perspective...

I'm floundering now... I hope this isn't too redundant, I know a lot of you already "know" the same things. I'll have to put some more thought into it before I can explain it better... A child who just learns something complex doesn't always make a good teacher. :wink: 


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
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Re: Objective, real, imaginary... same thing [Re: Ulysees]
    #543923 - 02/07/02 06:02 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

You are trying too hard. Give up trying to understand what you know...


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Just another spore in the wind.


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OfflineLord_A
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Registered: 02/04/02
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Re: Objective, real, imaginary... same thing [Re: Seuss]
    #543940 - 02/07/02 06:21 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

I agree, it's something one can only realise for him/her self. Putting it into words won't convince anybody, people believe what they believe until they experience differently and see the reality of the experience or none of the above. Doesn't really matter, or does it?. But pretty thought-stream anyway.


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a strange direction can be a beautiful opportunity


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OfflineTimeleech
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Re: Objective, real, imaginary... same thing [Re: Ulysees]
    #543942 - 02/07/02 06:24 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Our body is made to exist in a specific spectrum of electormagnetic radiation, but that does not mean that ther are no higher or lower vibrations than those it can percieve.
That could be another way of phrazing what I think you are trying to say.


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Eternally boggled, flummoxed, bewildered and surprised.
theophagy.org


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InvisibleUlysees
Power of Lard

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 5,060
Re: Objective, real, imaginary... same thing [Re: Timeleech]
    #543949 - 02/07/02 06:29 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Yes, that sounds right. I'd thought of some things like that, but my info is lacking.

I'm not trying to convince anyone, I'm trying to put some thoughts out there and get some opinions and thoughts from others.

I actually didn't think it was going to be that hard to write it down... The problem is putting it all down in such a way that you're not assuming too much or too little about the readers understanding of some things... I think it would have to be a bit longer to supply the proper context, then it would be a lot easier to say. 

This is also for myself. I have a ton of thoughts swirling around almost all the time, but until I sit down and sort them out, they're just swirling around clogging up my valuable brain space. :wink: When I come here and type it out, it helps me sort some things out... I type a lot of stuff out and then erase it as I figure out that I either can't express it sufficiently, or it's garbage.


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Edited by Ulysees (02/07/02 06:33 PM)


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OfflineAsanteA
light your candle on my love
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Registered: 02/06/02
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Re: Objective, real, imaginary... same thing [Re: Ulysees]
    #544064 - 02/07/02 08:14 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Ulysees: don't let nobody convince you to end your search and don't let anybody helpingly side-track you!

Reading your post I think you're a hair's width away from major insights...
I believe you may stumble upon God, not the one of the Books but the One that can manifest itself trough your mind... If you listen well enough.
But you may easily go in another, equally valuable direction.

Lying in Darkness... You're on the right track but i'd like to suggest you kill the music next time. This in my case has proven invaluable.

IF GOD HAD A NAME...


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InvisibleUlysees
Power of Lard

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 5,060
Re: Objective, real, imaginary... same thing [Re: Asante]
    #544130 - 02/07/02 09:24 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

I was thinking of killing the music while it was playing. At first I was listening to the music, then it was a distraction from where my mind was going, then it was just there... By the end it was both helpful and annoying. Helpful in boosting emotions, but annoying when the music decided to go in another direction and I wasn't finished with the old one.

Then I just got tired and the visuals began to fade so I went to sleep. I wear headphones when I listen at night, it aids in the sensory deprivation, if that's what it is.

Well, thanks for your support. I will take your advice and skip the music tonight. I might also try wearing earplugs or something to aid with the sensory deprivation but without adding any influences.

By the way: Listening to Marylin Manson in total darkness while viewing intense sober visuals and having your mind go careening away into bizarre thoughts is a powerful experience. The key here is the lack of drugs...


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OfflineskaMariaPastora
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Registered: 03/15/01
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Re: Objective, real, imaginary... same thing [Re: Ulysees]
    #544315 - 02/08/02 01:02 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

I think I got what you were trying to say, that is very cool. Its like we exist with a very small subset of possible ways of viewing the world and because this is all we know, we assume that it is all that is there. When you meditate or trip you can glimpse pieces of other realities.

But one question is: is there a definate and absolute reality that is 100% "real" rather than just a piece? Or is reality completely subjective no matter who is observing it and everybody just views different types? Perhaps different people/species/dimensions are just viewing one thing from different angles.


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InvisibleUlysees
Power of Lard

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 5,060
Re: Objective, real, imaginary... same thing [Re: skaMariaPastora]
    #544355 - 02/08/02 01:55 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Yes, I think that's it. Thank you. :smile:

But one question is: is there a definate and absolute reality that is 100% "real" rather than just a piece? Or is reality completely subjective no matter who is observing it and everybody just views different types? Perhaps different people/species/dimensions are just viewing one thing from different angles.

There is most definately a real reality, it would be the whole thing, the sum of all the parts. I also agree with what you said about perhaps different beings are all viewing the same thing from different angles, I think it's the same thing.
If there's a creature/being/whatever that has all of the sensory organs needed to "experience" everything, or something that overrides those organs, then that creature would either be very highly evolved, or God.

Take a human being, stripped of all his senses. He would basically feel like an object floating through space with his movement being impeded from time to time.
Give him the sense of touch. Now when his movement is impeded, he will feel that he is running into things, and this is a rather painful and annoying ordeal. He is now aware of something that his previous body could not experience and the way he exists is forver changed.
Now, give him sight. Suddenly, where there was blackness there is now a confusing mass of colors and light. He will realize that the things he touches correspond to the things he now sees, and life becomes drastically different. Note: When everything was black, the man did not realize everything was black. He would not be aware that he was missing anything at all until he saw for the first time. (No, I haven't seen that Val Kilmer movie, though I was meaning to.) :wink:
Next give him hearing. The same thing will happen. Where there was once nothing, there will now be a whole new range of stimulus, stimulus that he never would have realized he didn't know.
Give him the rest of his senses, but don't stop there...
Give him something that we don't have, something that I can't name (unless I make it up) because I've never experienced it and thus have no idea that I'm missing it. Think of the possibilities, think of everything we're missing... There is so much more going on that we may never know. At least not until they break more of it down, capture it with devices and display it in a form that we can experience with our existing senses.
Is psychedelic space one of these things? I don't see why not. We've had a taste of it, and now we know what we're missing. My body seems to have begun straining itself against its bonds to experience these things on its own. If I had a steady supply of drugs I don't think my body would be doing it at all. And why can't my body be doing this? We've taken implements that were originally designed to put food in our mouths and we've fine tuned them to create amazingly complex music and tools. Through the combination of our senses many things are possible. Perhaps we can even create/evolve/experience other senses. (Without the use of chemical aids, which are no less real.) 


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Edited by Ulysees (02/08/02 01:57 AM)


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OfflineMentalHygene
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Registered: 01/14/02
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Re: Objective, real, imaginary... same thing [Re: Ulysees]
    #544438 - 02/08/02 03:03 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

I agree, although I don't have that much to write!
I Believe that when we have learned all that we can in
our current level of being, that we will trancend onto the next plane of existence. And so on and so forth untill we have become "pure souls" in every sense of the word. Then we might understand the ultimate reality! Very similar to the Buddhist beliefs of various astral planes and such.


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"WHATS THE USE OF AUTONOMY WHEN A BUTTON DOES IT ALL?"


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Offlinegribochek
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Registered: 04/19/99
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Re: Objective, real, imaginary... same thing [Re: skaMariaPastora]
    #544759 - 02/08/02 01:07 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

But one question is: is there a definate and absolute reality that is 100% "real" rather than just a piece?

Think real hard and tell me, why do you think this matters at all?


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OfflineArCh_TemPlaR
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Registered: 07/15/01
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Re: Objective, real, imaginary... same thing [Re: Ulysees]
    #544869 - 02/08/02 03:12 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

It is because you're hitting the limit of your understanding, subconsciously. You might want to consider  why you are interested in such pursuits.  Such seeking may be manifests of the unresolves surfacing indirectly.

I'm implying you're running circles around your most rooted problem: you. :laugh:

You won't be able to find your ass with both of your hands If you have no anchoring point to centre yourself. :P  So make sure, find it now! hehe


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InvisibleUlysees
Power of Lard

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 5,060
Re: Objective, real, imaginary... same thing [Re: ArCh_TemPlaR]
    #544908 - 02/08/02 03:43 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Haha, thanks for the advice. I'm sure that my body isn't actually breaking free of it's physical bonds, but it's an exciting thought.

And the reason for all this? Writing... I'm working this into my novel which has been dead in the water for a few months. (I lost interest in the course I set, and needed to mix it up, new inspiration, new interest.)
That, and I'm just curious.


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

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Registered: 04/27/01
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Re: Objective, real, imaginary... same thing [Re: Ulysees]
    #544949 - 02/08/02 04:15 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

When I posted that you are trying too hard, I wasn't implying that you should give up. From the tone of your post, I can empathize with what you experienced. It all makes sense until you try to wrap it in logic or try to find words to explain it. The harder you try to make sense of your experience, the more jaded it will become by the words you choose to remember and describe it with.

I use painting as an analogy. Lets say you go outside and paint a picture of a perfect sunset... After a while, all you remember is the painting, not the sunset. You can show the painting to your friends. They might get an idea of what the sunset looked like, but the _experience_of_the_sunset_ will still elude them. You experience is your own. Nobody else can share it, take it, or have it but you!

You are standing before a gate. You have seen what lies on the other side. The harder you try to get through the gate, the more frustration you will find. Give up trying to understand what you know. Just be...

If I prove to you
that I was then
I will never be.




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Just another spore in the wind.


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InvisibleUlysees
Power of Lard

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 5,060
Re: Objective, real, imaginary... same thing [Re: Seuss]
    #544970 - 02/08/02 04:28 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

I see, it makes sense. In fact, last night the gate eluded me almost completely. I decided to quit "trying" to see and just slipped back into a comfortable mindset and sure enough, I saw. But it wasn't near the degree of the previous night.


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OfflineArCh_TemPlaR
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Registered: 07/15/01
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Re: Objective, real, imaginary... same thing [Re: Ulysees]
    #546312 - 02/10/02 03:11 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

I see, it makes sense. In fact, last night the gate eluded me almost completely. I decided to quit "trying" to see and just slipped back into a comfortable mindset and sure enough, I saw. But it wasn't near the degree of the previous night.

Sometimes when you contemplate such mysteries, you give yourself some innerspace. That little pocket of silence will hopefully light up the intuitive side. You do this indirectly, not necessarity at the time of contemplation. It's a prep up to set yourself.



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