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Anonymous

What is "real"?
    #2238636 - 01/13/04 10:30 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

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Anonymous

Re: What is "real"? [Re: ]
    #2238996 - 01/13/04 01:15 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: What is "real"? [Re: ]
    #2239013 - 01/13/04 01:25 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I thought you'd be aware that mankind doesn't know shit about this subject.


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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OfflineAnarkhos
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Re: What is "real"? [Re: ]
    #2239017 - 01/13/04 01:32 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

What is the difference between entia rationis and entia reale?

It's all Greek (ah, Latin?) to me.


--------------------
No masters, no servants.


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Invisiblejpod
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Re: What is "real"? [Re: ]
    #2239032 - 01/13/04 01:43 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

:laugh: One with absolute knowledge could surely enjoy a better grade of steak if said knowledge did not render 'better' absurd...

The rest of us will enjoy what we are told :wink:

Is knowable obtainable?  How does one know if they have seen too many Matrix movies?


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Anonymous

Re: What is "real"? [Re: Strumpling]
    #2239044 - 01/13/04 01:49 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

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Offlinelucid
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Re: What is "real"? [Re: ]
    #2239051 - 01/13/04 01:52 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Interesting that u bring this subject up man.
For the past year I've felt completely "UnReal"...
it's hard to describe exactly what I mean by this, but
it's as if I'm constantly in a dream.
Needless to say it's horribly disconcerting.
I somehow know that I didn't always feel this way
tho...
No ammount of logic or reasoning seems to affect the
way I "feel".
My rational mind has been thrown for a loop and I can't
seem to think my way outta this feeling...


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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Invisiblejpod
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Re: What is "real"? [Re: ]
    #2239293 - 01/13/04 03:15 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

So many accidental phenomenologists on this site!?

Perhaps one can explain their view of schizophrenics? Is therapy even necessary? Why? What does therapy mean if all percepts co-exist?

I am both fascinated and baffled with my understanding of phenomenological views of reality and am glad this question was raised.


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OfflineSpecialEd
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Re: What is "real"? [Re: ]
    #2239680 - 01/13/04 05:55 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

What is the difference between entia rationis and entia reale? And how does this correlate to the perceptible world versus the atomic world?

Does phenomenology come into play and can it give you a better grade of steak if you know this?

Discuss.




Things of reason and real things???

If a tree falls down in the middle of a forest...

I would say that nobody can be objective about entia reale because these things cannot be viewed without reason. I cannot step out of my mind for independent verification.

As for a better steak, what difference does it make? It's all the same.


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"Plus one upvote +1..."
--- //
-- :meff:
  /l_l\/
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OfflineFrog
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Re: What is "real"? [Re: ]
    #2240084 - 01/13/04 09:03 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Homework, huh?    :rolleyes:

Actually, I'm intrigued, but I'm still working.  I'd rather do "that" than "this" right now.


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibleYarry
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Re: What is "real"? [Re: jpod]
    #2240090 - 01/13/04 09:08 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

jpod said:
:laugh: One with absolute knowledge could surely enjoy a better grade of steak if said knowledge did not render 'better' absurd...






what about if he knew there was better? maybe being a dumb fuck is better in tasting steak. Cuz if you dont know of the concept better, let alone think that there is a better steak, then thats the best steak you will EVER eat! just a thought! lol


--------------------
Grumpy Old Man.


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Anonymous

Re: What is "real"? [Re: lucid]
    #2241019 - 01/14/04 09:03 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

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Anonymous

Re: What is "real"? [Re: jpod]
    #2241022 - 01/14/04 09:06 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

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Anonymous

Re: What is "real"? [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2241030 - 01/14/04 09:11 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

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Anonymous

Re: What is "real"? [Re: Frog]
    #2241035 - 01/14/04 09:15 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

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OfflineMAIA
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Re: What is "real"? [Re: ]
    #2241498 - 01/14/04 02:05 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

What is the difference between entia rationis and entia reale?




Well, both reffer to the sphere of the possible.
Entia reale is what describes the real existence. Entia rationis is reffered as "fictions of mind", reality perceived through a pathological mean like hallucinations. I believe normal perception is always the perception of something that has existence in this reality. If we do not assert that the perceptual object also really exists as a perceptible thing, we cannot say that we are perceiving it.

Quote:

And how does this correlate to the perceptible world versus the atomic world?



The sphere of the real is defined as the sphere of existence that is totally independent of the human mind. The familiar distinction between appearance and reality calls our attention to the fact that there is sometimes a difference between the way things appear to us and way they really are - the character they have apart from our cognition of them.
I could relate this viewpoint to Kant or other idealist philosophers but i'll give you an example from "The Nature of the Physical World" by Sir Arthur Eddington. The table in front of him, he says, is solid and impenetrable to his hands that lean upon it. But he tells us that, from the physicist's point of view, it is nothing but a field of empty space, a void in which elementary particles are moving about with great speed.
How can the same table be both what it appears to be to our ordinary sense perception and what it really is according to the physicist's theory of it? The elementary particles exist really only when they exist in a cyclotron, not when they are organized as the constituents of all the physical things that are the objects of sense-perception. In the latter case, the elementary particles are only virtually present, and that virtual existence can be turned into actual existence only by destroying the physical thing in which they are virtually present.
Existence has three modalities. The first is real existence, existence independent of the human mind and unaffected by it. The second modality is subjective existence. The contents of the human mind, its sensations, perceptions, images, memories, and concepts, have existence in your mind and mine. Since you and I really exist, subjective existence is also one form of real existence. The third modality is neither totally independent of the human mind nor totally dependent on the individual mind. This third mode is the existence of all the objects of the human mind except perceptual objects. Other than perceptual objects, we must always ask whether they have real existence as well as objective existence, that is, existence as intended objects, the objects that the human mind intends or means.
Quote:

Does phenomenology come into play and can it give you a better grade of steak if you know this?



A better grade of steak ? Hmmm .... i don't know what you mean by that but phenomenology or the phenomenological reduction is just a reflection, at least i see it that way.
Because the mind can be directed toward nonexistent as well as real objects, phenomenological reflection does not presuppose that anything exists, but rather amounts to a "bracketing of existence," that is, setting aside the question of the real existence of the contemplated object. Therefore i think we can use phenomenology to determine the objective existence of an object, maybe a useful "tool" to be used in the third modality of existence.

MAIA


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire


Edited by MAIA (01/15/04 06:15 AM)


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Anonymous

Re: What is "real"? [Re: MAIA]
    #2241527 - 01/14/04 02:17 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: What is "real"? [Re: ]
    #2241856 - 01/14/04 04:05 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Mr_Mushrooms said:
I didn't read your response closely or think about it deeply but what I saw I agreed with.




Hehe, I followed it really close.. it was fucking great. My mind, it needs stimulation... I haven't read anything for ages. Time to get serious about taking in some new ideas...

Quote:


I'd rate you a 5 for that response alone but I did that a long time ago!




Hehe, yep, I got the desire to open up the ole' rates as well. :grin:
Peace.


--------------------
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: What is "real"? [Re: ]
    #2241893 - 01/14/04 04:17 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

What is "real"?

These: :wink:


--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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Anonymous

Re: What is "real"? [Re: MAIA]
    #2242472 - 01/14/04 08:22 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

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