dr0mni said:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/A...national/Europe

Un-fucking-believable...

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Quote:

Italian atheist sues priest over existence of Jesus
By PHIL STEWART
Saturday, January 7, 2006 Page A16
Reuters News Service

ROME -- Forget the U.S. debate over intelligent design versus evolution.

An Italian court is tackling Jesus, and whether the Roman Catholic Church may be breaking the law by teaching that he existed 2,000 years ago.

The case pits against each other two men in their 70s, who are from the same central Italian town and even went to the same seminary school as teenagers.

The defendant, Rev. Enrico Righi, went on to become a priest writing for the parish newspaper. The plaintiff, Luigi Cascioli, became a vocal atheist who, after years of legal wrangling, is set to get his day in court this month.

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"I started this lawsuit because I wanted to deal the final blow against the church, the bearer of obscurantism and regression," Mr. Cascioli said.

Mr. Cascioli says Father Righi, and by extension the whole church, broke two Italian laws. The first is abuso di credulita popolare, or abuse of popular belief, meant to protect people against being swindled or conned. The second crime, he says, is sostituzione di persona, or impersonation.

"The church constructed Christ upon the personality of John of Gamala," Mr. Cascioli claimed, referring to a first-century Jew who fought against the Roman army.

A court in Viterbo will hear from Father Righi, who has yet to be indicted, at a Jan. 27 preliminary hearing meant to determine whether the case has enough merit to go forward.

"In my book, The Fable of Christ, I present proof Jesus did not exist as a historic figure. He must now refute this by showing proof of Christ's existence," Mr. Cascioli said.

Father Righi, 76, sounded frustrated by the case and baffled as to why Mr. Cascioli -- who, like him, came from the town of Bagnoregio -- singled him out in his crusade against the church.

"We're both from Bagnoregio, both of us. We were in seminary together. Then he took a different path and we didn't see each other any more," Father Righi said.

"Since I'm a priest, and I write in the parish newspaper, he is now suing me because I 'trick' the people."

Father Righi says there is plenty of evidence to support the existence of Jesus, including historical texts.

He also says that justice is on his side. The judge presiding over the hearing has tried, repeatedly, to dismiss the case -- prompting appeals from Mr. Cascioli.

"Cascioli says he didn't exist. And I said that he did," he said. "The judge will have to decide if Christ exists or not."

Even Mr. Cascioli acknowledges that the odds are against him, especially in Roman Catholic Italy.

"It would take a miracle to win," he joked.

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Quote:

"In my book, The Fable of Christ, I present proof Jesus did not exist as a historic figure. He must now refute this by showing proof of Christ's existence," Mr. Cascioli said.

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I'm sure the free publicity this will give for his book is simply a positive bonus for him, and has nothing to do with his motives.

Quote:

who gives a fuck if he did exist or not? It doesn't matter...
the church should be concentrating on the teachings of Jesus...not on Jesus.
Idolizing Jesus....is a sin...IMO.

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I've always thought that the way churches worship jesus is just as bad as the worship of any idol of stone or wood. This wooden idol is simply in the shape of a cross. I've never heard of the teaching of christ as much as I've heard that I should accept him as my savior and worship him or else go to hell...

We should start a thread about idol worship of jesus

dr0mni said:

Quote:

who gives a fuck if he did exist or not? It doesn't matter...
the church should be concentrating on the teachings of Jesus...not on Jesus.
Idolizing Jesus....is a sin...IMO.

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I've always thought that the way churches worship Jesus is just as bad as the worship of any idol of stone or wood. This wooden idol is simply in the shape of a cross. I've never heard of the teaching of Christ as much as I've heard that I should accept him as my savior and worship him or else go to hell...

We should start a thread about idol worship of Jesus

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You guys made me think of something funny to me now. I wrote about how I feel about this in the same post in MRP. I had said that the way the church put him up on a holier then thou pedestal made him an unrelatable persona and turned me off.

You guys had me remembering my first impressions of him back to when I was like 4-6 years old. The RC church I went too had these life size statues of him, up on the cross, with nails in his hands, thorns on his head, a huge gash in his side and blood dripping all over the place.

WHAT THE FREAK WERE THEY TRYING TO DO TO US YOUNGINS? 

How traumatizing of an image is that to a 4-6 year old? They tell you to be like this guy nailed up and bleeding and stuff. The RC church has really bad PR people.

And if it wasn't that one, they had another of him with a gaping hole in his chest, his heart hanging out with thorns sticking into it and it's dripping blood. 

From a young child's perspective, that is some gruesome horrifying stuff.

It's not Jesus's fault they portray him like that. It makes you wonder if the RC church doesn't get off on seeing him all ripped open, flesh torn, organs hanging out, nailed through and bleeding, scaring young children with his image. That sounds like stuff a Satanic cult would do.


Like you guys said, where was the focus on his Way of Life and his teachings and message? 

I just had to share those gruesome and horrifying earlier memories of my first introductions to Jesus the Christ via the RC Church. It's a no wonder why his name alone scares so many people. It's those images they feed us of him when we were kids.

Maybe this guy filing the law suit is having traumatic nightmares from his RC upbringing and wants to sue the church to make it all go away.

I'm glad I took another look into him for myself later in life outside of the church though. 

Lakefingers said:

And what is the point of putting a 70-year old smalltown priest at jeopardy?

This is not challenging the Roman Catholic Church, this is an ignoble attack on a individual.

For the war crimes committed by the USA military in Iraq should we put Bob Johnson from Evergreen Terrace 147, Springfield, Illinois, on trial?

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I think the law suit is the MOST ridiculous one I have EVER heard of! I'm surprised a judge is not throwing it out of court.

My reply was in response to what dromni and someone else said regarding how the RC church "institution itself" handles Jesus. I was relaying what it was like to be a young child raised in the RC church and introduced to a man whose image was gruesomely portrayed in statues throughout the church.

That has nothing to do with how asinine I think that law suit is. I think scaring little children is asinine though. My whole family on both sides and my husbands on both sides are all Roman Catholic. My family had many family friends that are priest that come to special family events and they are good people. You all would've love Father Roland, he was cool as shit.

I don't have a problem with people who are Catholics. I think the institution of the Roman Catholic Church itself has some issues that need resolving but so what? I was raised in the church and put through all of the sacraments. I left it when I free too at 16 also. It was a big and forced upon me part of my life for a little less then half of it now and you bet I have opinions about it and I think there has been an enormous amount of deception and mis interpretation being taught to its practitioners having come from the Vatican. 

I'm not someone raised atheist, Protestant, pagan, or Muslim taking pot shots at it. What I said was a simple truth about how Jesus is portrayed in statue form in the church I had to go to. How you turned that into my not being able to feel for another human being is beyond me. To the contrary, I feel to much for people and want to see all the pain and suffering in the world end.

Wiping the existence of a man named Jesus off the face of the earth isn't going solve anything. Jesus is an example for the Christ Beingness which is about compassion, healing, peace, unconditional love, warmth, light, acceptance and unity. I think it's despicable they used his name and what he stood for, The Christ, weather he was a real man or not, to start the Crusades and a whole nother line of horrible nonsense that went against everything the Christ being is about, including scaring little children with gruesome statues of the Christs image. 

Thanks for understanding Blue!