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God = perfect?
    #4892257 -

most religions and even many spiritual teachings assert that God is perfect. now i would find this very hard to believe if not for the fact that on several occasions i have experienced God as being perfect. yet i still cannot logically reconcile this with the feeling of imperfection i experience in lower states of consciousness. how is it that a perfect being can manifest as imperfection? anyone want to attepmt to tackle this problem? it seems like it would be very easy to argue that God isn't really perfect but when why is it claimed he is perfect?

note: i am not interested in answers like "because religions and spiritual teachings are just made up and God doesn't exist". obviously that would answer the question but what i am interested in is the philosophical problem of a perfect being contaning imperfection, not whether such a being exists.

i am also not interested in debating what is meant by "perfect". for the purposes of this thread by perfect i mean the feeling of complete perfection. if you haven't experienced this feeling i dont know if it can be explained.

Edited by Deviate (11/04/05 01:02 AM)

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Re: God = perfect? [Re: Deviate]
    #4892296 -

disconnecting oneself from the perception of god being perfect. its all to do with the self.


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suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem

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Re: God = perfect? [Re: spudamore]
    #4892394 -

And if you have experienced complete perfection....


Then you know already how and why imperfection is inherently an aspect of perfection.


out does not exist without in. Perfect could not be without imperfect

Problem=tackled

logic is imperfect, so naturally, you can not logically contemplate perfection perfectly.


:sun: :heart: :sun:


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Re: God = perfect? [Re: Deviate]
    #4892607 -

Now that we're asking questions, tell me how is it that a being can manifest?

Our perceptions of perfection are imperfect. If I break the law, It's the laws fault!

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Re: God = perfect? [Re: Deviate]
    #4893134 -

Claiming that God is perfect (or imperfect) is as meaningless as claiming that blue is green.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: God = perfect? [Re: Seuss]
    #4893480 -

God = Wotan

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Re: God = perfect? [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #4893573 -

God=Dog=Frankie=


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: God = perfect? [Re: Deviate]
    #4893804 -

I like how JC put it when this question came up before.

He said that a broken piece of glass is a perfectly broken piece of glass.

A flawed diamond is a perfectly flawed diamond.

Just another spin on it.

Ever hear the story of the cracked pot?

This dude had the task of carrying two pots of water adhered to a stick he carried over his shoulder from the river to his village every day.

One of the pots had a crack in it and leaked much of the water out on the way to the village. He thought it was an imperfect pot.

Weeks later, he noticed that on the left side of his trail home, the side the cracked pot was on, flowers had sprung up.

The imperfect cracked pot made for a perfect watering jar that nourished flower seeds to grow and bloom.

:peace: :heart:


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: God = perfect? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4895643 -

We are here. Consider entropy. Consciousness fights it. If you think the world randomly created itself, you need to study your statistics and probability texts a little better.


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For those that know, no explanation is necessary. For those that do not know, no explanation may suffice.
-someone smarter than me

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Re: God = perfect? [Re: Deviate]
    #4895668 -

here's one resolution, from spinoza, who addresses this for pantheists
if god is everything, and god is perfect, how can there be imperfection?
if a rock falls on some dude, and kills him, that sucks.
but the rock itself is perfect, so is the dude. it's the falling of rock on dude that is imperfect. IOW some relationships between objects are imperfect, never the objects themselves.


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"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger

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Re: God = perfect? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4896689 -

gettinjiggywithit said:
I like how JC put it when this question came up before.

He said that a broken piece of glass is a perfectly broken piece of glass.

A flawed diamond is a perfectly flawed diamond.

Just another spin on it.

Ever hear the story of the cracked pot?

This dude had the task of carrying two pots of water adhered to a stick he carried over his shoulder from the river to his village every day.

One of the pots had a crack in it and leaked much of the water out on the way to the village. He thought it was an imperfect pot.

Weeks later, he noticed that on the left side of his trail home, the side the cracked pot was on, flowers had sprung up.

The imperfect cracked pot made for a perfect watering jar that nourished flower seeds to grow and bloom.

:peace: :heart:



nice!  :flowers:


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Disclaimer!?

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Re: God = perfect? [Re: Deviate]
    #4896815 -

Deviate said:
most religions and even many spiritual teachings assert that God is perfect.



but the books that these people teach from show things to be much different
the Bible for instance shows gods 'imperfections', it was said that god had
created man in his own image, if man is not perfect then it's aparent that
god is not perfect, we are often taught that jealousy is a sin or fault, god
stated in the 10 commandments that he sins, the second commanment

Quote:
Exodus 20:4-5 says "You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God."


Quote:
Deuteronomy 4:24 For the LORD thy God [is] a consuming fire, [even] a jealous God.


as explained by Galatians 5:19-21, jealousy is a sin as we know from christian teachings that sin is a flaw

19: The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery;
20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions
21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.


this is just one of gods little imperfections, frankly I thing god would be better with a more human face to him.


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: God = perfect? [Re: Deviate]
    #4896858 -

Spiritual perfection is a matter of opinion, not of fact. God, as the term is most commonly used, is an abstract concept created by human minds to explain that which they cannot understand by giving it understandable characteristics (<- right there is a problem). Hence the God concept is often bundled with human attributes and 'imperfections.'


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Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.

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Re: God = perfect? [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4897687 -

Perfection and imperfection are two sides of the same thing. Like the front and the backpage of a piece of paper. If one wants to sail from Europe to America sailing westward seems the right direction. But if one sails eastwards, in the wrong direction, one will eventually also arrive in America. Thinking in opposites: perfection and imperfection, good and bad, love and hate etc., is due to the working of our brains. We divide the world into opposites and think one side can achieve total victory over it?s opposite side. This is not possible. Too much perfection leads to imperfection. If one is a perfect fisherman, for instance, he catches all fish in the seas and has no fish left to catch in the future. Therefore a perfect fisherman is a imperfect fisherman.
I think if one says that God is perfect, he means that God knows better than mankind. God?s intelligence stands above human inteligence and logic which creates an abstract idea of reality. Which truth is only valid within a certain range.

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