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Declaration of Intention * 5
    #4864857 -

I write this post as the founding member of the Shroomery and its most senior administrator, to proclaim my intention upon starting the site, and to help guide future decisions affecting its members. This should not be read as an official policy, rather it simply represents my personal goals and wishes when it comes to running the site. It is my greatest desire that the Shroomery remain a haven for free speech and differing ideologies, including those generally deemed offensive and detestable, as long as such speech is not illegal, expresses a genuine belief or opinion, and is not an obvious attempt to generate discord or disrupt the community (aka 'trolling'). I contend that it is the duty of the administration to extend equal rights and privileges to all members (including disliked and controversial ones), and to ensure that site guidelines are enforced fairly and without prejudice due to an individual's beliefs. The administration should make reasonable accomodations for those with controversial viewpoints, including equal access to the site's resources and a public forum to express their opinions. Under no circumstances should disciplinary or punitive action be based on what could be considered moral judgement, only on specific infractions spelled out in advance. These principles should take priority over all others, especially offering a 'friendly', 'non-threatening' or 'non-controversial' atmosphere. I propose that the freedom we provide is the site's most unique and valuable aspect, and it should be a top priority of the administration to safeguard said freedom. Finally, it is not my intention for people to over-analyze this statement, 'read between the lines' or twist my quotes to support any position beyond the one specifically outlined within: questions of free speech on the Shroomery should not be decided on moral grounds.

-Ythan
10/28/05

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Ythan] * 1
    #4864863 -

This is in response to some staff discussion about cracking down on hate speech and Nazism. I hope it makes my position crystal clear, for this and future issues.

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Ythan]
    #4864970 -

:thumbup:

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Ythan] * 1
    #4865622 -

It took a lot of balls to say that. And fuck do I admire you for it. :thumbup:

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Ythan]
    #4865624 -

Awesome!

:smile:


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Ythan]
    #4865654 -

Ythan said:
I write this post as the founding member of the Shroomery and its most senior administrator, to proclaim my intention upon starting the site, and to help guide future decisions affecting its members. This should not be read as an official policy, rather it simply represents my personal goals and wishes when it comes to running the site. It is my greatest desire that the Shroomery remain a haven for free speech and differing ideologies, including those generally deemed offensive and detestable, as long as such speech is not illegal, expresses a genuine belief or opinion, and is not an obvious attempt to generate discord or disrupt the community (aka 'trolling'). I contend that it is the duty of the administration to extend equal rights and privileges to all members (including disliked and controversial ones), and to ensure that site guidelines are enforced fairly and without prejudice due to an individual's beliefs. The administration should make reasonable accomodations for those with controversial viewpoints, including equal access to the site's resources and a public forum to express their opinions. Under no circumstances should disciplinary or punitive action be based on what could be considered moral judgement, only on specific infractions spelled out in advance. These principles should take priority over all others, especially offering a 'friendly', 'non-threatening' or 'non-controversial' atmosphere. I propose that the freedom we provide is the site's most unique and valuable aspect, and it should be a top priority of the administration to safeguard said freedom. Finally, it is not my intention for people to over-analyze this statement, 'read between the lines' or twist my quotes to support any position beyond the one specifically outlined within: questions of free speech on the Shroomery should not be decided on moral grounds.

-Ythan
10/28/05




Good call.  :thumbup: 

Nicely worded, btw.  :cool:


--------------------
Jerry Garcia. JERRY GARCIA! JERRY GARCIA!!!!

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Ythan]
    #4865668 -

These are the very principles this NATION was founded on.
Right on :thumbup: :wink:


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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Ythan]
    #4866055 -

Why I love ya man  :heart:

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Ythan]
    #4866303 -

:smile:  :thumbup:

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Ythan]
    #4866547 -

:smile:


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Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.

-Erik Davis

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Ythan]
    #4866634 -

I have a question Yhtan....

hypothetical...

what if...shroomery turns into a haven for hate speech and nazism? what if it becomes rampant? I really don't want to see that...and it will drive me away from here. Is there a point to where you would try to calm it down a point?

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: TameMe]
    #4866695 -

Well I really don't expect that to happen. There are dedicated sites for that kind of thing. I don't really know how to answer since it just seems so unlikely. I guess it would depend a lot on the actual circumstances. I'd probably debate with them if I could find ones worth arguing with. If it really became a phenomenon we could start a eugenics forum or something to keep things uncluttered. But as long as people are just expressing their personal beliefs in accordance with the forum guidelines, I really don't see the need to "calm" anything down. That's what the board's here for.

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: TameMe]
    #4866867 -

That would never happen.

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Redstorm]
    #4866931 -

At a certain point there would be mass bannings and beheadings, problem solved, now we can be happy again! yay!


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:orly:


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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Redstorm]
    #4866983 -

Redstorm said:
That would never happen.



--------------------
Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.

-Erik Davis

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Ythan]
    #4868414 -

how does this square with administrative policy and practice?

what measures are in place to maintain this vision?


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: afoaf]
    #4868513 -

Quote:
This should not be read as an official policy, rather it simply represents my personal goals and wishes when it comes to running the site.


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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: phi1618]
    #4868562 -

phi1618 said:
Quote:
This should not be read as an official policy, rather it simply represents my personal goals and wishes when it comes to running the site.




How many other admins also share these goals, would be the relevant question.  :sherlock:


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:orly:


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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Ythan]
    #4868620 -

did you go to law school or something cuz that was spoken just like a lawer. and i actually mean that as a complment.


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You are a filipina sex goddess who wants to fuck me until I fall asleep, so then you can tickle my balls and see if the legend of my diamond filled nutsuck is true.  I am a white man from costa rica, who smells like lime jello.


I can flash/jtag/repair 360's, pm for details.

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: afoaf]
    #4870528 -

> what measures are in place to maintain this vision?

Active communication. Most staff-related problems that I have noticed during my tenure are a result of failed coordination/communication, which is something we have been progressively working on through the use of regular administrative meetings, as well as mass PM's or private posting sent to the mods whenever things do change that they should know about. In so far as whether or not the other administrators share Y's viewpoint, I trust that most of us hold the same basic ideal - but as with anything, each circumstance will evoke a slightly different response from any one of us. When it comes down to it, some of us may wish to actively change certain things while others may wish to let the community take a course closer to chaos. Either way, if it does not pose a threat to the members, the board, or the general harmony of the membership, we tend to let things be.


--------------------

--------------------
┼ ··∙   long live the shroomery  ∙·· ┼
...╬π╥ ╥π╬...

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: geokills]
    #4872917 -

:heart:


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Ythan]
    #4875525 -

Recent administrative comments have made me wonder how this relates to Mod Bias in the S&P Forums. People are being banned and warned for their BELIEFS and not for BROKEN RULES.

Could you please respond?


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Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Rose]
    #4875851 -

I will respond as I have perceived the situation. As far as I can gather, your comments are not so much directed towards the P&S Forum, but rather it's offshoot counterpart MR&P. That being said, I see the warnings being given in the MR&P forum not as an excuse to lay down a ban, but simply a stern introduction for this newly created forum, aimed primarily to exhibit that this new forum is going to be managed in a significantly stricter (and certainly more subjective) fashion than its counterpart the P&S forum.

Up until now, the first attempt at splitting S&P was a very rough road since a clear objective had not been presented. By liberal use of the warning system, we are effectively sending the message that the users need to be very mindful of how they conduct themselves, and that this new forum is for positive participation and not for any type of critical expression or debate. Simply put, the MR&P forum is designed as a haven from negativity, and the warnings that are being handed out are done in efforts to clarify this stipulation to members who may have posted disagreement or dissenting viewpoints. While I may feel that at least one of the warnings given out thus far should never be used to justify an actual ban, I also feel that it is important to make ourselves abundently clear to the participants of the new forum, sooner rather than later.

.. and remember, if ever you have been warned or banned, and would like further explaination or a review of the action, all you need to do is PM/email the moderator who took the action, or ultimately contact a member of the administration through use of our PM's, email, or support ticket system.


--------------------

--------------------
┼ ··∙   long live the shroomery  ∙·· ┼
...╬π╥ ╥π╬...

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: geokills]
    #4875902 -

If MP&S is designed as a haven from negativity, it does a piss-poor job at it. Those who express certain points of view are censored, shouted down, and harrassed by the mods. As near as I can tell, that forum is nothing more than a private clubhouse for people whose views coincide with those of the mods. They have created a hostile atmosphere for those who have less mystical beliefs, even if those views are expressed in a positive, constructive manner. If the forum wishes to be free from negativity, this hypocrisy cannot be allowed to continue.


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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Silversoul]
    #4876911 -

Paradigm said:
If MP&S is designed as a haven from negativity, it does a piss-poor job at it. Those who express certain points of view are censored, shouted down, and harrassed by the mods. As near as I can tell, that forum is nothing more than a private clubhouse for people whose views coincide with those of the mods. They have created a hostile atmosphere for those who have less mystical beliefs, even if those views are expressed in a positive, constructive manner. If the forum wishes to be free from negativity, this hypocrisy cannot be allowed to continue.


I agree.

The Staff's tactics in there, go against Ythan's words, it seems.

People are being punnished for their beliefs, rather than for breaking a rule.

The forum rules are quite clear. They weren't broken. Not in Swami nor Paridigm's case.

No Staff member has even ATTEMPTED to prove otherwise.

Instead, they lock/dump/warn/ban.

Every single Moderator of THAT forum has PUBLICLY stated their bias towards Swami.

This is NOT right.

Seems the place was made, simply to keep Swami and Paradigm out.

You know me Ythan.

I bitch a lot, but I am no liar.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Rose]
    #4877005 -

Look, GUYS, let's not fuck up this wonderful thread with all this ridiculousness. For crying out loud, there is no need to continue bitching about Swami's many run-ins with the staff. Reasons were given, even if they had nothing to do with any specific forum rule. Secondly, what is done, is done.. and that should be the end of it. If there are future problems where you feel you have been wronged, by all means please contact the admins outlining what specifically happened and why you feel it to be in error.

There is no need for you to fight Swami's or anyone else's battle for them, and if you have a concern about disciplinary action taken against you personally, you ought to contact an administrator directly instead of puking this ugliness all over the BB. I'm sure that if we received what we felt to be an honest petition to be given a another chance, and enough time had gone by, that the admins and moderators would be willing to give most banned members another go. But I have to tell ya, and I can't stress this enough; Trying to brute force the issue is just not the way to go about it.


--------------------

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┼ ··∙   long live the shroomery  ∙·· ┼
...╬π╥ ╥π╬...

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: geokills]
    #4877265 -

all issues to be taken up in a public irc meeting sometime soon, right?


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Use the Fucking Reply To Feature You Lazy Pieces of Shit!

afoaf said:
Jim, if you were in my city, I would let you fuck my wife.

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Jim]
    #4877362 -

The viking is primarily responsible for coordinating that - I don't doubt it will happen, but I don't know exactly when. An announcement will be made as the time draws near.


--------------------

--------------------
┼ ··∙   long live the shroomery  ∙·· ┼
...╬π╥ ╥π╬...

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: geokills]
    #4878419 -

geokills said:
Look, GUYS, let's not fuck up this wonderful thread with all this ridiculousness.  For crying out loud, there is no need to continue bitching about Swami's many run-ins with the staff.  Reasons were given, even if they had nothing to do with any specific forum rule.


This is PRECISELY why I am asking YTHAN for clarification, Geo. Because Swami's ban, and Paradigm's warning had NOTHING to do with the FORUM RULES. Therefore, they could not AVOID punishment (unfair)... and the PUBLIC DOESN'T UNDERSTAND (confusing). On top of THAT, you in particular, Geo, keep DUMPING THREADS WHENEVER THIS TOPIC COMES UP. But you won't deny the TRUTH of my statements. You keep admitting YOUR BIAS, in PUBLIC. That is NOT EXPLANATION ENOUGH. Stop pretending it is!

As you JUST ADMITTED AGAIN, IN PUBLIC, Geo; Swami broke NO RULE.

This is SIMPLE, Geo:

If he BROKE NO RULE, and was PERMA-BANNED, he was PERMA-BANNED WITH BIAS.

You DON'T EVER DENY IT!

Since I share MANY of Paradigm and Swami's Spiritual beliefs, I FEAR FOR MY FUTURE IN THAT FORUM. I DON'T KNOW WHAT I CAN DO TO AVOID THE SAME UNJUST TREATMENT... other than LIE, or VANISH. Neither option is fair.

Yet earlier today, you said:

Quote:
geokills said:
This thread has been closed.

Reason:
I cannot sanction this perpetuation of madness. This thread has veered off-topic and all I see is a bunch of people arguing for the sake of arguing. This forum is going to be protected by subjective means, and if you can't handle that - stay out.


THAT COULD HAVE JUST AS EASILY BEEN ME, BEING MISTREATED!

In fact, it was YOU who said Swami would, from NOW ON, get SPECIAL treatment... ie: He would be treated WITH BIAS. I remember, I READ THAT THREAD TOO.

Quote:
geokills said:
There are no absolutes and there are no rigid rules here. We act as we feel, and those who do not cross us will be given the benefit of the doubt - however those that get on our bad side, for whatever reason, are going to get the short end of the stick more often than not.


Apparently, the stick comes out, EVEN WHEN THE PERSON HAS A VERY CLEAN HISTORY, and BREAKS NO RULE. In fact, if you look back, Swami only APPEARED TO CROSS YOU, after he COMPLAINED ABOUT HIS FIRST, of MANY, UNJUST BANS! I also, read THOSE threads, Geo. :wink:

THAT, Geo, IS THE VERY DEFINITION OF BIAS.

Quote:
Bias:
Adj
1.  An unfair act or policy stemming from prejudice. To influence in a particular, typically unfair direction; prejudice.


Swami is currently banned from THIS forum for the SAME BIAS! He is NOT ALLOWED TO TALK ABOUT HIS BANS, EVEN THOUGH HE BROKE NO RULE, BY YOUR ADMISSION! In THIS VERY THREAD! And you punished him further, FOR COMPLAINING about his UNJUST and BIASED TREATMENT.

Man, this is the RIGHT place to have THIS talk. This thread covers THE EXACT TOPIC, I needed to discuss. MODERATOR, and ADMINISTRATIVE BIAS. It needs to STOP.

Swami, and Paradigm have been Moderated with BIAS. You ADMIT it. THEY BROKE NO RULES for their PUNISHMENT! They were punished for their BELIEFS. How much more evidence does a person NEED to fucking PRESENT? I have YOUR OWN WORDS, and NO BROKEN RULES!

Ythan ADDRESSED BIAS differently in his first post... than you did, in your most recent addition to this thread.

This UNJUST TREATMENT should be CORRECTED... NOW.

Perhaps you should read Ythan's words again, Geo.

Ythan said:
I contend that it is the duty of the administration to extend equal rights and privileges to all members (including disliked and controversial ones), and to ensure that site guidelines are enforced fairly and without prejudice due to an individual's beliefs. The administration should make reasonable accommodations for those with controversial viewpoints, including equal access to the site's resources and a public forum to express their opinions. Under no circumstances should disciplinary or punitive action be based on what could be considered moral judgment, only on specific infractions spelled out in advance. These principles should take priority over all others, especially offering a 'friendly', 'non-threatening' or 'non-controversial' atmosphere. I propose that the freedom we provide is the site's most unique and valuable aspect, and it should be a top priority of the administration to safeguard said freedom.

-Ythan
10/28/05


Pretty clearly stated, Geo.

You just said in your last post, Swami BROKE NO RULE. This leaves us with BIASED MODS, who admit their bias in public, and get YOUR support, for their BIAS. That goes against the VERY NATURE OF THIS COMMUNITY!

Fix it, please.

How on Earth can a SHROOMERITE remain banned because of their, HONEST TO GOD, SPIRITUAL BELIEFS, in light of Ythan's recent posts? In fact, Ythan said FIXING such problems should be your, "TOP PRIORITY"! Paradigm, and Swami have EVERY RIGHT, to post their SPIRITUAL BELIEFS, in that SPIRITUAL FORUM. So STOP BRUSHING US ASIDE! We have fucking RIGHTS here too, Geo!

To this day, neither Swami NOR Paradigm have broken A SINGLE RULE, in THE HISTORY OF THAT FORUM!

WTF?!

I had to STEP DOWN AS A MOD, before I was allowed to publicly address this BIAS honestly. Somebody tell Geo, I AM NOT doing this to fuck up a WONDERFUL discussion, but actually posting ON TOPIC, in the PROPER THREAD. This IS THE THREAD about BIAS.

We should WAIT for someone to BREAK a rule, before PUNISHING THEM. There is NO SHROOMERY, PUNISHMENT LINE OF CREDIT!

Your treatment of people who share my beliefs, has been RACIST, if we were a race. It is WRONG, UNJUST, UNFAIR, CONFUSING... ADD A FEW MORE ADJECTIVES (LIKE FUCKING AND HORSESHIT) AND YOU'LL START TO GET THE IDEA!

Stop telling me this issue is smaller than it is. Stop telling me I CAN'T talk about THIS! I am SICK of that! YOU have to support your Staff, I stepped down so I could BE HONEST. In fact, I stepped down so I COULD talk about this particular ISSUE, REMEMBER?

Why the reverse logic, Geo?

Nazi's, murderers and Child Molesters are welcomed with open arms, but not OLD FASHIONED HIPPIES like Swami and Paradigm, who BROKE NO RULES?

Again, WTF?

I suggest making this issue your, "TOP PRIORITY"! People like me aren't allowed to Moderate unless we KEEP OUR MOUTHS SHUT. We aren't allowed to POST without INVISIBLE RULES we (surprise) KEEP BREAKING. This is SEGREGATION! What is this? Alabama in the 50's?

I want this issue ADDRESSED and FIXED... like YESTERDAY!

When the hippie movement began, it actually MEANT something. Swami, Paradigm, and MY Spirituality is CLOSER to the original "Hippie" Spirituality, than the one we are being FORCED to practice in public. This is LUDICROUS, for a MUSHROOM COMMUNITY!

I am not lying, you've NEVER said I was, Geo... although time, and time again, you have suggested I STOP talking about this in PUBLIC. Well FINALLY Geo, we have a thread made for EXACTLY this subject matter... and the creator of THIS Website, started the thread. Let's talk to him.

Ythan?


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


Edited by Rose (11/01/05 02:29 AM)

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Rose]
    #4878456 -

Didn't you used to be a moderator of some forum?


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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Rose]
    #4878584 -

Cervantes... I hear you and I understand where you are coming from. We are all human and we all make mistakes... The line between freedom of expression and trolling, flaming, etc can be very fine. What may be seen as simple expression in one forum can be seen as trolling in another. Nothing in life is black or white, but rather everything is a shade of gray. Even the admin has trouble with this... some of us want complete freedom of expression while others of us are willing to tolerate censorship of objectionable topics not related to mushrooms. Finding the balance between these two extremes is not easy, even for just five people... add in forty to fifty moderators and it becomes an even larger problem.

I don't want to dwell on the past... mistakes have been made... from doing too much and from not doing enough. However, we are trying to learn from our mistakes. Ythan has been doing a lot of work to try and help balance this out. New tools are in place that help the moderators do their job, help the admin do their job, and provide a better means of communication and accountability for admin/mod actions. These tools also help maintain a level playing field when it comes to admin/mod actions as they relate to general users. Please give this some time and see if it helps. Nothing changes over night and there will always be problems from time to time, but please, be aware that we are trying to help the situation... if the tools that Ythan has written don't help, then we will try something else.

You know that I keep pretty quiet and try to only speak out when I feel it is important. I really feel that the new tools, and the clear "Declaration of Intention" that Ythan has provided will help. It may take a little time... all I ask for is a bit of patience and constructive feedback from time to time letting us know if things are improving or not.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Seuss]
    #4880032 -

There is no, "No Trolling" rule for that particular forum.

And further, his, "Trolling" was actually, asking about his UNJUST BANS?! Which is an ODD definition of trolling, at least, in my book.

If he HAD trolled, he would've violated the TOS, and THEREFORE deserved a SITE WIDE ban. He did not, and NOBODY has ACCUSED him of doing so. Not even those who banned him. His MOST RESENT BAN was unjust, and the Staff has admitted he broke no rule.

I do appreciate you stepping in Seuss. It was time for a NEW voice of reason.

I know these things take time, in the meanwhile, people who share my beliefs are BEING PUNISHED for THEIR BELIEFS. I don't know HOW to watch my back. I'm a white victim of a hate crime.

I TRUST you guys are doing your best, and I APPRECIATE all the changes and discussion we've had so far. I still DON'T KNOW WHAT I CAN DO, other than LIE or GO AWAY, to avoid such bias, myself... at least until this issue is FIXED.

I understand if this may take a while, I already said that, I JUST hope, PUNISHMENT of the INNOCENT will be lifted, once you all get your act together... which I trust you WILL do... although I have taken A LOT of flack in the interim.

Swami, Paradigm and me, have ALL been victims of this viscous cycle. We've all been mistreated, we've all lost faith in this community. We've all lost parts of this community, which we hold dear. AND WE DON'T UNDERSTAND.

The problem is REAL SIMPLE TO FIX.

Thank YOU Seuss, for being the first Admin in a MONTH to actually address my concerns in public. It is about time. I was running out of ways to say the same thing, and people (mostly Staff) were calling me a DRAMA WHORE.

Thanks

:smile:

Now, fix it.

:tongue:


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


Edited by Rose (11/01/05 03:16 PM)

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Rose]
    #4880694 -

Now I am gettin' the message that you're probably tired of hearing from me, but the fact is that I'm here now and I do have a pretty good understanding of how management here works. I don't know where you're getting all these admissions of guilt, bias, and non-rule breaking.. at least I can speak for myself when I relate that you have misconstrued statements of mine as absolute when I have made clear use of an 'IF' qualifier. At any rate, forum rules are not the say-all end-all, we also have site wide rules on Harassment/Respect/DramaQueens/Hate Magnets, not to mention the all inclusive "we do reserve the right to ban anyone for any reason" statement included in our new user agreement / AR&G. Consequently, if someone seems to be demonstrating more of what one might consider negative or deconstructive behavior in a specific forum, regardless of those forum rules, a moderator may choose to remove access to only that forum, since seemingly the user may be able to control him or herself on the rest of the board. This is usually implemented when we receive direct and continued user complaints regarding a specific user.

More concerning to me, is why you insist on fighting someone else's battle for them?.. and why you continue to insinuate that we have some hidden agenda against certain users. Well here's some news, it's not hidden - for those who paid attention to my prior postings on this subject (and not just specific quotes taken out of context), you would know that certain users have been banned (or failed to have their ban lifted) because of their actions after the initial ban. Say you were unjustly arrested for breaking and entering on your friend's property while they were out of town. Well even if you are innocent, you need to play by the rules of the system, and of course if you start yelling and screaming about your innocense and trying to get away, you will probably end up in solitary confinement with a hefty dose of tranquilizers until your arraignment. Similarly, users here may have been banned for questionable reason - yet instead of calmly presenting their case they flip out and sometimes encourage other people to vocalize on their behalf, or worse yet employ puppet accounts to fight their cause. In turn, this lack of tact and respect for the staff is obviously going to play a factor in how the person is subsequently treated.

It has been said time and time again that if a specific user (be it you, Swami, Paradigm, or anyone else) wants to petition for readmission to a given forum, or a reconsideration on any ban, they ought to present their case directly to the administration with their specific reasoning for such a request. I am not opposed to hearing people out and considering their gripe - for crying out loud I do it on a near-daily basis - but this matter has been blown so far out of proportion and is convoluted with so much variance in opinion over the countless threads that have surfaced, that it is no surprise to me we are not getting anywhere. Mind you, continuing this public spectacle won't help any.. I know that Y hates having to sift through this mess, and if I weren't already kneck-deep in it I'd more easily keep my mouth shut too; just remember that when you petition a ban, you can request to have a full administrative review in which the administrative receipient will post your complaint to the rest of the admins for their commentary. Oftentimes, about half of the admins stay out of these inquiries anyway since they are not actively involved on the BB at the given time.. and on ocassion the moderators are also solicited for their opinion, but damn sack o hooeybouey gratuity with an anchovy on top, sometimes people must agree to disagree.


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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: geokills]
    #4880921 -

No, this problem has not been blown out of proportion. It has been repeatedly silenced by the administration. The fact is that there are certain mods who simply should not be moderating that forum. While Swami may have a history of agitation, I never had any problems in the old S&P. Yet within the short time that the new MP&S forum has been around, I have been given two unwarranted warnings and one unjust banning. Others have had similar experiences with the forum. These moderators accuse me of "cynicism" and "hypocrisy," yet the hypocrisy is all on their side, and the only thing I am cynical about is their blatant bias and the administration's unwillingness to address my concerns about it. I should have the same right to express my beliefs in that forum as anyone else. Yet I have gotten the clear message that my beliefs are not allowed to be expressed, no matter how positively or peacefully they are expressed. Perhaps the forum description should be changed to make it clear that open-mindedness, questioning authority, and independent thought are not allowed..


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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Silversoul]
    #4881981 -

Yeah, I agree.

My problem has been the RESTRICTIONS over talking this out. And, the accusations, that I (like Swami and Paradigm), by bringing it up, CAUSED the problem. Geo of ALL people should know I want to FIX this problem NOW, not DRAG IT OUT.

Yet by painting me, Paradigm and Swami as HATE MAGNETS and DRAMA QUEENS, EVEN THOUGH THE PUBLIC DOES NOT OVERWHELMINGLY THINK SO, geo sets us up to be banned, for VIOLATION OF THE TOS!

Pah!

This is ENTRAPMENT!

Geo if you, or ANY OTHER Shroomerite, ban me for such reasons, EVER, you can start by DELETING ALL MY POSTS.

Keep THAT in mind, when you consider HOW WELL SWAMI has handled his... UMPTEEN UNJUST BANS! Yet HE gets punnished FURTHER for QUESTIONING THE BIAS?

The guy's a fucking SAINT in my eyes.

Ghandi would've snapped by NOW.

Geo, how can you call a guy with a 4.5+ shroom rating, a hate magnet? How can you call someone who complains about UNJUST and BIASED bans, a Drama Queen? Your perception is a bit warped, from where I sit. I'd wager it is warped from where MOST sit.

Swami aside, how exactly does Paradigm fit the profile? How come I don't? See where I'm going with this?

Wiccan held a recent poll, to rate his moderation... and he decided to stay on as Mod... because he received a +5 score. But, please REALIZE, without MODERATOR votes, he would've received a -1, and that INCLUDES my GLOWING +3 review. I was the first to vote.

Wiccan is not to BLAME. Nor should he take the fall. That is NOT my point. He is a FINE Mod. ANY Mod in there, who did such a thing, at this time, would have taken such a hit. My point is: Nobody (not even Wiccan) seemed to notice the PUBLIC voted differently than THE STAFF.

LISTEN TO THE PUBLIC. We ARE dissatisfied with the Moderation of THAT forum. I am not the ONLY one, nor is Swami, nor Paradigm. Apparently, a MAJORITY of Shroomerites feel this way.

You keep asking us, we keep saying so.

I've seen these discussions in the Mod Forum. The Staff has time and again, IGNORED and SILENCED the PUBLIC, because they are SO BUSY talking amongst themselves. They simply forget to listen to us! But to brush us aside...? To PUNISH us for speaking out? That is WRONG.

The Public has said REPEATEDLY, they DO NOT LIKE THIS BIAS, and THEREFORE, DON'T TRUST THEIR MODS. I am NOT the ONLY one who has expressed this feeling... I'm just one of a few, who HASN'T LET GO OF THIS PARTICULAR SWAMA-ISSUE, until it gets FIXED.

I had to step down, in order to HONESTLY protect people who share MY Spiritual beliefs... and in doing so, have been treated with the same UNJUST bias.

We're dealing with MY SPIRITUALITY. I hold NOTHING nearer and dearer to my heart. I'd like the same freedom as EVERYBODY ELSE, to practice and express my SPIRITUAL beliefs, here at The Shroomery. WITHOUT fear of STAFF bias, prejudice, or persecution.

I'd also, once this issue is FIXED, like my job back.

I'd have had NO REASON to cross any lines, if MY SPIRITUALITY was not under attack by an ADMITTEDLY BIASED Staff.


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Fiddlesticks.


Edited by Rose (11/02/05 12:12 AM)

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: geokills]
    #4882380 -

geokills said:
Now I am gettin' the message that you're probably tired of hearing from me, but the fact is that I'm here now and I do have a pretty good understanding of how management here works.


I am not tired of hearing from you. I am tired of being called a DRAMA QUEEN, by you, as you seemingly set ME up for an unjust ban.

geokills said:
I don't know where you're getting all these admissions of guilt, bias, and non-rule breaking.. at least I can speak for myself when I relate that you have misconstrued statements of mine as absolute when I have made clear use of an 'IF' qualifier.


I have taken comments made in public, by you, Maia, Shroomism and Wiccan and committed them to memory.

I have not lied yet. I can DRAG UP THE QUOTES, but I feel that would tarnish the Staff MORE than I would like to, and also, CONFIRM YOUR ACCUSATIONS of me being a DRAMA WHORE.

Ask me again, and I will present the evidence... but really, you can trust me, and save some face. Just concede the point, like Seuss did.

I too, know how management here works. Admins like to keep their togas WHITE, while their Mods take the dirt. Bullshit travels up... etc...

geokills said:
At any rate, forum rules are not the say-all end-all, we also have site wide rules on Harassment/Respect/Drama Queens/Hate Magnets, not to mention the all inclusive "we do reserve the right to ban anyone for any reason" statement included in our new user agreement / AR&G.


I addressed this a bit in my PREVIOUS POST.

You, Maia, Wiccan... etc... BY CALLING Paradigm, Swami and ME Drama Queens, are ENTRAPPING US.

That you have FALLEN BACK to your BE-ALL-AND-END-ALL LOOPHOLE, is TELLING, geo.

You OBVIOUSLY have NOTHING, or you wouldn't be playing the, "We can ban whoever we want to!" card. That is your NUCLEAR OPTION, and YOU KNOW IT.

IF ONLY ONE PERSON WERE EFFECTED geo, you'd have a case.

But, THE PUBLIC is AGAINST YOU on this. And Swami, Paradigm, me and others are the victims.

So, STOP CALLING US FUCKING DRAMA QUEENS, or at least, STOP INSINUATING IT.

LOOK AT HOW THE PUBLIC REACTED TO YTHAN'S POST!

geokills said: Consequently, if someone seems to be demonstrating more of what one might consider negative or deconstructive behavior in a specific forum, regardless of those forum rules, a moderator may choose to remove access to only that forum, since seemingly the user may be able to control him or herself on the rest of the board. This is usually implemented when we receive direct and continued user complaints regarding a specific user.


OR this could confirm PUBLIC BELIEF that the THREE MODS ARE BIASED. ESPECIALLY, since they have ALL ADMITTED IT PUBLICLY!

Quote:
geokills said:
More concerning to me, is why you insist on fighting someone else's battle for them?.. and why you continue to insinuate that we have some hidden agenda against certain users. Well here's some news, it's not hidden - for those who paid attention to my prior postings on this subject (and not just specific quotes taken out of context), you would know that certain users have been banned (or failed to have their ban lifted) because of their actions after the initial ban. Say you were unjustly arrested for breaking and entering on your friend's property while they were out of town. Well even if you are innocent, you need to play by the rules of the system, and of course if you start yelling and screaming about your innocence and trying to get away, you will probably end up in solitary confinement with a hefty dose of tranquilizers until your arraignment. Similarly, users here may have been banned for questionable reason - yet instead of calmly presenting their case they flip out and sometimes encourage other people to vocalize on their behalf, or worse yet employ puppet accounts to fight their cause. In turn, this lack of tact and respect for the staff is obviously going to play a factor in how the person is subsequently treated.


There you go again, accusing me of being a drama whore.

Notice how you suggest defending the INNOCENT is a BAD and CONFOUNDING thing. You WONDER WHY I DO IT? Don't you tell YOURSELF, EVERY DAY, you are an ADMIN, because you get to HELP PEOPLE?

When YOU HELP PEOPLE, it makes sense... but when I do... ?

A drama whore would use THIS sentence to say what he REALLY feels about such tactics.

Why do I defend Swami? Because...
Cervantes said:
I still DON'T KNOW WHAT I CAN DO, other than LIE or GO AWAY, to avoid such bias, myself... at least until this issue is FIXED.


Why do I defend Swami? Because he is innocent. I am a DEVIL'S ADVOCATE. I SHARE HIS SPIRITUAL BELIEFS. I can't MODERATE while this issue exists. Most of all, I defend him because he was BANNED UNJUSTLY, and CAN'T DEFEND HIMSELF... WHILE BANNED!

If I were JEWISH, and you banned someone for their JEWISH beliefs... wouldn't you UNDERSTAND WHY I crossed the line, spoke up, and ULTIMATELY STEPPED DOWN, so I could DEFEND MY FAITH!?

Well fuck geo, I'm not JEWISH, but I am Spiritual. And I will DEFEND MY FAITH FROM BIAS, at the COST OF MY MODSHIP because YOU MAY AS WELL BE MISTREATING ME. I see NO difference between SWAMI'S posting style, and MINE. Except, I tend to prattle...

geokills said:
It has been said time and time again that if a specific user (be it you, Swami, Paradigm, or anyone else) wants to petition for readmission to a given forum, or a reconsideration on any ban, they ought to present their case directly to the administration with their specific reasoning for such a request. I am not opposed to hearing people out and considering their gripe - for crying out loud I do it on a near-daily basis - but this matter has been blown so far out of proportion and is convoluted with so much variance in opinion over the countless threads that have surfaced, that it is no surprise to me we are not getting anywhere. Mind you, continuing this public spectacle won't help any.. I know that Y hates having to sift through this mess, and if I weren't already neck-deep in it I'd more easily keep my mouth shut too; just remember that when you petition a ban, you can request to have a full administrative review in which the administrative recipient will post your complaint to the rest of the admins for their commentary. Oftentimes, about half of the admins stay out of these inquiries anyway since they are not actively involved on the BB at the given time.. and on occasion the moderators are also solicited for their opinion, but damn sack o hooeybouey gratuity with an anchovy on top, sometimes people must agree to disagree.



I will NOT agree to disagree.

That would mean I AGREE TO RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION!

FUCK THAT!

I was in PM correspondence with YOU until you TOLD ME OFF. So, don't tell me to send a support ticket. Like it would help at this point, or be weighed ANY differently than our REGULAR PM conversations, geo. It is a BULLSHIT suggestion geo, and you know it.

We are in the proper thread. We are on topic. We can talk here.

The only reason you DON'T want this PUBLIC discussion, is so you can ENTRAP us for QUESTIONING YOUR BIAS... as we continue to discuss it, despite your repeated warnings.

Pick 4 or 5 points I have made in this post, and tell me you agree.

It would be a step in the right direction.


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Fiddlesticks.


Edited by Rose (11/02/05 03:40 AM)

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Rose]
    #4882688 -

Cervantes can you say in concise steps exactly what you think at this point would resolve the issue? If you have a problem with a specific mod then name them. Always grouping the three mods of the new forum together does them all a disservice by not giving them individual advice.

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Rose]
    #4882742 -

So I just have to jump in here. I can be devil's advocate too..

Some victim Swami is :rolleyes:

You ARE being a drama queen

You speak of religous persecution.. what is Swami's goal?

Have you spoken with the tens of people (That I KNOW of) who have LEFT S&P and the Shroomery COMPLETELY because of his "direct style of questioning beliefs"? Did you know them?

IF ONLY ONE PERSON WERE EFFECTED geo, you'd have a case.

But, THE PUBLIC is AGAINST YOU on this. And Swami, Paradigm, me and others are the victims.

Yeah.. that's because the people who were effected LEFT THE FUCKING SHROOMERY. For good. Because they couldn't handle the RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION. Sound familiar? You skew the perception that it is you, Swami, and Paradigm who are the victims.. when that is only the result of all of Swami's 'hard work' over the years. He has loyal lapdogs to fight his battles for him, he's the center of all the drama, and he has about 50 others to emulate his posting style... you KNOW he's loving it. He made his bed, and now you want to lay in it.

DIGITAL MARTYRS.

You defend your faith against bias eh? Well unless your faith DOESN'T happen to be the Swami Faith, you wouldn't exactly know what it's like to have your faith PERSECUTED and ATTACKED repeatedly. DEFENDING the INNOCENT? That's what I do. I stand up to guys like Swami who like to bully little seekers of the truth around.. coming down on them with an air of moral superiority. Granted.. I don't have nearly the debating, language manipulation, and charismatic skills, but I work with what I have.

Basically what I'm seeing from you is this: You completely defending Swami,. painting him as the most innocent victim of a tyrannical administration and biased moderation. Perhaps some of that was true in the past, but not the Swami being an innocent victim part. This is my perspective: He has TROLLED S&P for years. He has DRIVEN people AWAY from the SHROOMERY with his BRUTAL ATTACKS on BELIEF SYSTEMS. Yeah, and somewhere in between he's a genuine nice guy. And most certainly a master at drawing emotions out of people so he can do as he pleases with them.

You speak like Swami is a saint. Maybe he is in disguise. But you really don't know the full history. S&P used to be dominated by 'believers'. Only now, that Swami's wishes have come true, with the skeptics dominating what was once S&P, and that we have the "koombayah" forum they have been asking for for years, you guys have more to bitch about then ever. How ironic. When it was the so-called skeptics who begged for an alternate forum for the 'pussy' spiritual posters in the first place. So they just can't resist going in their and tearing shit up either.

I remember when S&P was about simply sharing beliefs and experiences and there wasn't any drama like this. DO you?

Now there's more checks and balances than EVER to ensure unbiased moderation. And we are not DWELLING in the PAST.. mistakes were made on BOTH SIDES. CLEAN SLATES have been given, and we are trying to start again from zero point. Is this even possible?


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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Shroomism]
    #4882749 -

As far as I have seen, the only people who have taken offense to my posts are the mods. If anyone else has been offended, let them speak now. This has gotten bigger than just Swami. This is about being free to express one's beliefs. Are my beliefs inferior to yours? Are they not protected by the same forum rules that yours are? Please address this. I would love to get answer on this once and for all.


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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Silversoul]
    #4882761 -

This has gotten bigger than just Swami.

Much bigger.

This is about being free to express one's beliefs.

Absolutely. 500%

Are my beliefs inferior to yours?

Never.

Are they not protected by the same forum rules that yours are? Please address this. I would love to get answer on this once and for all.

Yes they are protected. Well, ideally anyway. What I think you are referring to.. is the thread of yours that someone dumped because they thought you were mocking someone? Moderation is subjective at best, we are not always omnipotent :smirk:, so if mistakes were made.. sorry.. and we'll try to do better in the future. Myself, I go for the... anything goes except for blatant flames/trolling etc approach. But what was requested was a forum where people could freely express their beliefs and be free from "skeptical persuasions of the assholish kind" so to speak..  in order for that to even be possible, there needs to be rules, ways to identify that. In the initial opening the the RM&P forum, there was several waves of dissenters who did their best to fill the forum with SHIT. They had to be sifted out. If you got caught up in that whirlpool of madness.. I'm sorry, and if you're saying you were unfairly warned in your attempt to make a genuine post.. let's take that up with the admins directly to expunge that from the.. shall we say... new permanent records.


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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Shroomism]
    #4882789 -

I have taken up the warnings with the admins. Not one of my support tickets has gotten any responses yet. As for the "shit" that was being posted in the early days of the forum, what I saw was simply people posting their beliefs. There was no debunking going on, which I believe is what the forum was supposed to be a safe haven from. Now, if it's also supposed to be a safe haven from thought-provoking or humorous posts, I'd like to know.


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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Silversoul]
    #4882807 -

That's because there was a very vigilant moderator staff in the first days. We moved/locked/deleted ~50 threads and posts that were part of an organized attack on the forum, the second they were made or shortly after. Sorry if you got caught up in that. The repeat offenders lost their access to the forum, now there isn't a problem. Thought provoking and humorous posts are of course allowed, it is the condescending name-calling and cynical sarcasm/mocking of others that will not be tolerated.


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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Shroomism]
    #4882831 -

You wanna talk name-calling and cynical sarcasm/mocking?  When MAIA recently warned me and I contested it, the response I got essentially amounted to :razz:.  I think that that "organized attack" was simply a bunch of people wishing to post their beliefs just as others were doing, only to find that their beliefs were discriminated against.


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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Silversoul]
    #4882835 -

No.. 'organized attack'.. was a PM campaign of mostly OTDers who were intent on coming in there and intentionally starting shit to disrupt the forum. We squashed it, that's why you don't see it.


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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Silversoul]
    #4882925 -

Paradigm said:
I have taken up the warnings with the admins. Not one of my support tickets has gotten any responses yet. As for the "shit" that was being posted in the early days of the forum, what I saw was simply people posting their beliefs. There was no debunking going on, which I believe is what the forum was supposed to be a safe haven from.

For the record, my operator account shows zero tickets pending reply. Depending on what category you placed the ticket in, it may have been directed to another operator who is temporarily unavailable. As for there having been "no debunking going on" in the new MR&P forum's early days, there were in fact people posting dissenting viewpoints and there were some threads that seemed quite obviously aimed to mock the principles of the new forum, which is not only to disallow debunking, but also to prevent people from making fun of another person, mocking their ideas or ideals, or questioning their belief. Obviously, you love to get into the middle of something and question the hell outta it until you have received satisfactory response - but the new MR&P forum is simply NOT designed for that.. in fact, it's designed specifically to GET AWAY from that. Jeez, let the people have their peace, it's just one tiny corner of this message board.


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┼ ··∙   long live the shroomery  ∙·· ┼
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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: geokills]
    #4882940 -

Quote:
Obviously, you love to get into the middle of something and question the hell outta it until you have received satisfactory response - but the new MR&P forum is simply NOT designed for that.. in fact, it's designed specifically to GET AWAY from that. Jeez, let the people have their peace, it's just one tiny corner of this message board.


I'm sorry, but you've got me all wrong. I simply like to post my beliefs just like anyone else. I have interesting thoughts that I like to share with others. I am not there to debunk or mock others' ideas, but I do like to get people thinking about things. Again, if thinking is not allowed, please say so.

Frankly, I get insulted when people think I'm there to tear down the forum. I honestly want to see it succeed, but it can't succeed as long as a couple of childish mods discriminate against certain beliefs.


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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Silversoul]
    #4883001 -

It is the way in which you may get people thinking that can be the problem. I don't mean to say that you are looking for a controversy, specifically targeting other people for idealogical annihilation, or anything like that.. but your persistence in questioning (which is admittedly often how one might get others to think) is not conducive to the new forum. Think of MR&P as more of a BLOG, and not so much as a discussion forum. It's very hard to articulate the method behind the madness, but I suppose I will go out on a limb and say that so far as you are concerned, the new forum is primarily an engine for regurgitation of prior thought. Heh, though that doesn't really respect the new forum, but I do hope it will get the point across that if you want to make people think, you should be posting in the P&S forum! What I just can't seem to grasp my head around is why you insist on pushing the issue with regard to MR&P, when you could be posting freely in the P&S forum these exact same topics, receive the style of discussion to "make you think" - all the while running into no resistance. Instead, you seem to choose to expand the limits of the new forum so that they encompass your own personal posting style when in essence the new forum was created in part to get away from that style of discussion.

We obviously have different views of how the forum is to succeed.. which is fine, afterall I don't like every forum on this message board - and in truth I may not even post in the new MR&P forum. But the fact is, we created it to cater to a different palette - one which you don't seem to much like, and that is fine. But don't try to change it just because it's not what YOU are looking for, capish?


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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: geokills]
    #4883050 -

I don't see why a blog would exclude questions about what spirituality is(such as the topic of mine which got deleted). But I will take this last post of yours as an indication that indeed thinking is not allowed in that forum. Fair enough. That's all the clarification that I need. Except that if these rules apply to me, I expect them to apply to everyone equally.

Of course, the main thing that I get busted for isn't questioning others' ideas, but rather for questioning the actions of the mods. My most recent warning was for a post in the thread about Wiccan_Seeker, in which I was simply explaining, in the most constructive way possible, why I do not think he should remain a mod in that forum. Basically, the mods know I disapprove of the job they are doing in that forum, and rather than take the criticism constructively, they choose to throw a temper tantrum.


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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: geokills]
    #4883161 -

If the forum is more BLOG like than a forum then why not give thread starters management controls over their threads (like in My Journal) in that forum so they can censor as they please. A few mods could oversee general abuse of the forum (thread floods, offensive imagery, flaming).


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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Organic]
    #4883330 -

Interesting idea - though I would have no idea how to implement it and believe it would require some serious custom coding since the Journals function in effect as an individual forum where you are the moderator. Combining this individual forum power into a single threadlist, and integrating it with the rest of the standard BB software seems like a hefty task, of which Y already has plenty such as tweaking the new ban/history log system, as well as other pending projects that are in line.. I do like the idea though, but on the same token it is a bit redundant since we already have the Journals. Would be cool if we had a "Journals" forum similar to the Active Journals listing, except that it would function as a full thread listing and not just updates.


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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Silversoul]
    #4883876 -

Paradigm: has your christianity thread been moved or locked?
Nope, because it belonged in that forum and approached things from the correct angle.

If the mods were corrupt and on a personal quest to get you out of there then your thread would not be left unaltered.

Like Geokills says: certain posting styles are not suitable for MR&P. It's not even "the spirituality forum" because P&S is closer to that.

You can argue in a restaurant that it is your right to bring your own food, but it's not going to happen. Certain posting styles are not for MR&P and people who try to push to get it their way despite policy are met with moderator action, as has happened a few times, with the forum being more harmonious because of it.


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Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

:nyan: LGBT - Love God Before Tradition :nyan:

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Asante]
    #4883899 -

The Christianity thread was not moved and did not get a warning because it did not get people thinking about the nature of spirituality in a way that seemed threatening to your power. The thread you deleted did not question anyone's ideas either, but it was intended to get people thinking about close-minded vs. open-minded approaches to spirituality, which clearly hit too close to home for you. It seems that I am not allowed to question your decisions in that forum, even in relevant threads. I find this to be tyrannical.


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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Silversoul]
    #4883921 -

BTW, can someone please explain exactly what it is about about my posting style that is inappropriate for that forum? I certainly don't try to debunk or mock anyone's views there. I try to refrain from negativity, though I sometimes question the wisdom of certain moderator actions. Is it the fact that I believe in an open-minded approach to spirituality, rather than a close-minded one? Is it the fact that I try to be thought-provoking? If that's the case, then I think Wiccan's "Honk if you love Jesus" thread shouldn't belong there either. WHAT IS IT that I'm doing wrong? I'd really like to know.


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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Silversoul]
    #4883970 -

> It seems that I am not allowed to question your decisions in that forum, even in relevant threads.

Correct. If you must question the action of a moderator, do it in private either with the moderator - or failing that with an administrator.


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...╬π╥ ╥π╬...

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: geokills]
    #4884000 -

geokills said:
> It seems that I am not allowed to question your decisions in that forum, even in relevant threads.

Correct. If you must question the action of a moderator, do it in private either with the moderator - or failing that with an administrator.



The specific thread I'm referring to was the one asking whether Wiccan should stay on as a mod. It was just as on-topic as any other posts in that thread, and I see no reason why my post should have gotten a warning.


--------------------

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: geokills]
    #4884118 -

geokills said:
> It seems that I am not allowed to question your decisions in that forum, even in relevant threads.

Correct. If you must question the action of a moderator, do it in private either with the moderator - or failing that with an administrator.



Then WHY THE HELL is this NOT A RULE?

?

???

WHY WAS A THREAD MADE, TO TALK TO THE MODS? ABOUT the MODS?

It is BIAS, only the Staff seems to think otherwise.

SInce I went to bed, 19 new POSTS in here.

Not counting Staff replies...

NOT ONE POST is in SUPPORT of Staff Bias, or you ACTIONS in the NEW FORUM.

LISTEN TO THE PUBLIC.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Rose]
    #4884128 -

Cervantes said:
geokills said:
> It seems that I am not allowed to question your decisions in that forum, even in relevant threads.

Correct. If you must question the action of a moderator, do it in private either with the moderator - or failing that with an administrator.



Then WHY THE HELL is this NOT A RULE?

?

???


shhhhhhh! If he makes it a rule you'll be as good as mute


--------------------
:orly:


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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Microcosmatrix]
    #4884136 -

If they make it a rule, I won't NEED to speak. Others will do the talking for me, I'm sure.

Sorry Hippies, you are NO LONGER ALLOWED to QUESTION AUTHORITY.

Right....


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Rose]
    #4884139 -

Cervantes said:
Sorry Hippies, you are NO LONGER ALLOWED to QUESTION AUTHORITY.


:sad:


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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Shroomism]
    #4884162 -

Shroomism said:
So I just have to jump in here. I can be devil's advocate too..

Some victim Swami is :rolleyes:

You ARE being a drama queen


Then BAN me for violation of the TOS... or get off your high horse.

I am BEING HONEST, and addressing MY CONCERNS.

Oh, and DUDE, if it is DECIDED that I am NOT a DRAMA QUEEN, then your comment should be considered a FLAME.

Remember when YOU flamed somebody in the OLD S&P?
Quote:
Shroomism said:

You are an asshole.



DO NOT make light of MY SPIRITUALITY. I DO NOT make light of YOURS.

What drama queen KEEPS ALL their posts in THE PROPER THREADS, has a five shroom rating, and has the majority of the Public's support... with no record of public warnings or bans?

You want to talk to me, STOP calling me names.

You want to BAN ME FOR BEINGT HONEST, do it NOW.

I will speak my mind, until this issue is FIXED.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


Edited by Rose (11/02/05 03:39 PM)

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Rose]
    #4884276 -

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/ thats how i get here its in my favorites You should update your bookmark to http://www.shroomery.org/forums/ yea, wtf!  i'm not talkin' about the Main Index  i'm talkin' about the MAIN.. index.  where it lists the most recent 5 posts or so.  it's been displayin' the same ones for days now.  i think someone needs to fix this problem.  i don't care about the main index of the BB showing the amount of new threads/posts.. .but the MAIN index.html of the shroomery should list the recently posted posts... 'cause otherwise, why do i have http://www.shroomery.org/index.html as my main page?  :tongue:
  http://www.shroomery.org/forums/?Cat=  There is something similar what you regard already built in in the board software.

If you look at the bottom of the main index.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/?Cat=

you will see

View recent messages
Past 24 hours
Past 48 hours
Past 7 days  Not if you have to type them in.

I type in
shroomery.org/forums

you type in shroomery.org/forums/

Which is shorter? :wink:  Oh look theres other forums click me :smile:  I was looking around and noticed that the bottom of  the main index page it says there are no birthdays today. Yet if you click on the  calendar link and then on  January 23 2004 it shows that it is Grovesk8ters Bday.

Just thought it was courious and perhaps an error.Anno posted how to edit the host file at www.*************.org but the post was promptly deleted by an admin.

I can only remember how to edit the file in XP, perhaps Anno or someone else can help with the other operating systems.

In Windows XP go to C:\WINDOWS\system32\drivers\etc and then open notepad. Drag and drop the hosts file into notepad and you should see something like this:

# Copyright (c) 1993-1999 Microsoft Corp.
#
# This is a sample HOSTS file used by Microsoft TCP/IP for Windows.
#
# This file contains the mappings of IP addresses to host names. Each
# entry should be kept on an individual line. The IP address should
# be placed in the first column followed by the corresponding host name.
# The IP address and the host name should be separated by at least one
# space.
#
# Additionally, comments (such as these) may be inserted on individual
# lines or following the machine name denoted by a '#' symbol.
#
# For example:
#
#      102.54.94.97    rhino.acme.com          # source server
#      38.25.63.10    x.acme.com              # x client host

127.0.0.1      localhost

Add to the bottom line of text 69.28.174.165 www.shroomery.org and click save.

Access the shroomery by the following link: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/I fixed this, before when I typed in: www.shroomery.org/forums
i would get to the main page where I wasn't logged in... but if I clicked on any link, I would be logged in... quite annoying.

The problem was that /index.php was redirecting to: ubbthreads.php instead of http://www.shroomery.org/forums/
so my browser for some reason went to:
http://shroomery.org/forums/ instead of www.shroomery...

now it's fixedPris you work here
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This forum is dedicated to all aspects of cultivating psychoactive mushrooms.
Please read the <a href="/index/par/23539">disclaimer</a> and the <a href="/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=Forum2&Number=1435580" target="_blank">posting guidelines</a> before posting in this forum.



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- 10/07/04 11:17 AM
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This forum is dedicated to the cultivation of Gourmet and Medicinal Mushrooms. This is not a drug related forum. Here we discuss practices and techniques for propagation of the medical and gourmet related species of mushroom cultivation. Basic Knowledge recommended, as not many gourmet/medicinal species use spores as step 1 for cultivation. Agar, Mycelial transfers/slurries are the most common methods.
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A forum for the discussion of wild mushroom hunting and identification. Be sure to read the <A HREF="/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=2263556">Forum Rules</a> before posting.  While we make every effort to help identify mushrooms accurately, we claim no responsiblity for a mushroom misidentification. Remember that <b>unidentified mushrooms should never be consumed</b>, as consumption of certain mushrooms can result in death.

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- 10/07/04 11:16 AM
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- 10/07/04 10:53 AM
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A forum where users can detail their mushroom growing experience by showing their methods and progress. Please be careful not to incriminate yourself with too many details. All mushroom pictures are welcome.  If you don't know how to post a picture look <A HREF="/index/par/23399">here</a>.
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(Sammy)
- 10/07/04 10:57 AM
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--------------------

--------------------
┼ ··∙   long live the shroomery  ∙·· ┼
...╬π╥ ╥π╬...

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: geokills]
    #4884381 -

It would be nice if my support tickets were answered, but apparently, according to you, they must have gotten lost. So that doesn't seem to be working out so well.


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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Rose]
    #4884391 -

I think you need a Valium, though I wholeheartedly support what has been said concerning the mystcal mystery forum.

(It's a mystery what you can post there)


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:orly:


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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: geokills]
    #4884423 -

BTW, the reason us users are "hammering" our opinion over and over is because YOU'RE NOT LISTENING! It really is frustrating to see that the administration doesn't really care about our concerns.


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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Silversoul]
    #4884552 -

:popcorn:

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Silversoul]
    #4885382 -

Neither you nor Cervantes seem to grasp the difference between "listening to" and "agreeing with".

Geo is both listening and responding to your (Cervantes and you, that is) repetitive points. Over and over and over. There may be someone in this exchange who's not listening, but it isn't Geokills.





Phred


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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Phred]
    #4885494 -

Well, nature will take its course and the forum will either become popular or remain a constant source of bickering and complaint.

If it remains a source of grief I'm sure the admin will change something. I cant see how it wont, it's a virtual witchhunt forum and I've pretty much decided to stay out of there for the time being.

I think I might be one of the ones that cant even fart in there without getting into trouble, and I'd rather just stay out of the madhouse forum rather than be banned.

I have tried to follow the rules in there, but alas I just cant figure out how to do it. Oh well, there's always the other reasonably run forums to go to!


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:orly:


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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: geokills]
    #4885519 -

For example, if talking about halloween and ghosts, spirits etc. etc. isn't allowed there, I DON'T KNOW WHAT POSSIBLY IS???

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/4879408/an/0/page/0/gonew/1#UNREAD


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:orly:


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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Microcosmatrix]
    #4885527 -

Quote:
it's a virtual witchhunt forum and I've pretty much decided to stay out of there for the time being.

I think I might be one of the ones that cant even fart in there without getting into trouble, and I'd rather just stay out of the madhouse forum rather than be banned.



It's amazing how involved you are with the community within two weeks of having registered as a member. It's a captivating site!


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

:nyan: LGBT - Love God Before Tradition :nyan:

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Asante]
    #4885709 -

yeah, you're amazing too.


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:orly:


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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Phred]
    #4886050 -

Phred said:
Neither you nor Cervantes seem to grasp the difference between "listening to" and "agreeing with".

Geo is both listening and responding to your (Cervantes and you, that is) repetitive points. Over and over and over. There may be someone in this exchange who's not listening, but it isn't Geokills.


Phred


So far, Phred, geo's suggestions have been:

"Shut up, Go away, and, Agree to disagree."

He's changed his reasons for Swami's ban so many times, it is comical. Geo's locked or deleted EVERY OTHER THREAD WHICH HAS DISCUSSED THIS TOPIC. Even though I HAVE STARTED ONLY ONE THREAD ON THIS MATTER IN PUBLIC, and HAVE ONLY POSTED IN THE PROPER THREADS, he and several mods are framing me as a DRAMA QUEEN. I have broken NO rule, I have not gone into The Pub or OTD to raise a ruckus.... yet I'm framed as a DRAMA QUEEN. Pah!

YTHAN'S post is VASTLY different. He says such tactics should STOP. He says it should be your, "Top Priority".

I'm asking WHY the TWO stories, from THREE admins?

You don't seem to grasp this, Phred:

"Shut up, Go away, and, Agree to disagree..." ARE ALL THINGS YTHAN SAID SHOULD STOP!

I am asking for a NEW response, in LIGHT of YTHAN'S announcement. Geo has done NO SUCH THING.

I've yet to receive one NEW RESPONSE, in LIGHT of this thread... well Seuss, but again, his words were VASTLY different than geo's... but geo's doing ALL THE TALKING. Between Ythan's words, Seuss's and geo's, is it any wonder I'm confused? THEY AREN'T SAYING THE SAME THING!

Swami, Paradigm, and me > Child Molesters, Murderers, and Racists

Why then are WE being mistreated for our BELIEFS... while the SLIME OF HUMANITY is protected, for THEIRS? Still waiting for THAT answer.

It is geo, who can stop this EASILY, by admitting I'm telling the truth about Swami's ban and also, Paridigm's warnings and ban, and THUS, lift the Staff WALL OF SILENCE. So you aren't ALL FORCED to STFU, QUIT or ECHO a BIASED policy.

LISTEN TO THE PUBLIC.

ALL THIS, to avoid saying what we all know: You guys fucked up.

Big fuckin' deal.

Just FIX IT, so we can MOVE ON.

But thanks, Phred, for piping up.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


Edited by Rose (11/02/05 11:49 PM)

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: geokills]
    #4886697 -

Thank you Geo for moving my thread back where it belongs :thumbup:


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:orly:


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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Microcosmatrix]
    #4886717 -

That WAS cool. :thumbup:


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Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Rose]
    #4887916 -

Cervantes, you have misread Ythan's comments. You have also misread Geokills's comments, but let's deal with them one at a time.

Ythan is not saying you can say whatever you want in whatever manner you want in whatever forum you want.

The Mysticism, Religion & the Paranormal forum has different rules on posting than does, for example, the Philosophy & Spirituality forum. For whatever reason, some people attempting to post in the MR&P forum have a different idea of what should be allowable as a post in that forum than do the moderators of the forum.

As Geokills has pointed out, in a situation where that occurs, it is the administrators who decide whose judgment is correct. It isn't public opinion, it isn't who writes the most numerous or the lengthiest and most repetitive and most capslock-intensive posts in the WA&F forum, it's whoever makes the most persuasive case to the administrators reviewing the case.

I say again, "listening to" is not synonymous with "agreeing with".

I've seen Geokills explaining the administrative position on this issue over and over and over again in this forum and I've seen his explanations sail directly over your head. Persistence is sometimes an admirable trait. This isn't one of those times.




Phred


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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Phred]
    #4888460 -

Why DON'T we let every member post their beliefs in MR&P? 

Wasn't MR&P created to give *every member* a safe place to voice belief and phenomonon of faith?   

If Paradigm, Cervantes or even Swami need to express their beliefs then they should be welcomed in the MR&P forum provided they can follow the rules. 

MR*P was designed to be a *safe* place to express ones spiritual belief, particularly in the more 'dubious' elements of religion and the paranormal.  But users should understand that in posting there, they must maintain that level of comfort for other members. 

If you want to compare notes in a relaxed atmosphere, MR&P is for you.  If you wish to engage others in vigorous questioning, P&S may be a better fit.  Each forum has a different mood. 

And if members can use the forums as intended, then EVERY MEMBER should be given access and permitted to post without fear of bias. 

That includes MR&P. 

I have no idea WHAT happened to give Paradigm and Cervantes cause to feel unwelcome in that forum and I really don't care.  We need to make an effort to make sure that every belief is given space there.  That's what's important. 

The job of that forum is to give every member a chance to SAFELY (without rigorous questioning and without rancor) express his or her spritual views. 

If the mods can't help the forum do its job then maybe the mods need a new job.  If members cannot respect the rules and intention of MR&P, then they should be disallowed.  Otherwise, every belief is sacred in MR&P.  You can't pry beliefs open with a scalpel and rummage inside like in P&S, but handle them gently and with respect and you just might learn something valuable. 

As for mod bias, I believe most mods are willing to listen to the members in the forums they moderate.  I hope the mods will lighten up and give MR&P a chance to bloom with all its petals intact.  (i.e: lets give everyone room to express their spirituality). 

EvErYoNe.  :flowerchild:





























































































(koombaya)

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: MOTH]
    #4888701 -

EllemyshShade said:
Why DON'T we let every member post their beliefs in MR&P? 

Wasn't MR&P created to give *every member* a safe place to voice belief and phenomonon of faith?   

If Paradigm, Cervantes or even Swami need to express their beliefs then they should be welcomed in the MR&P forum provided they can follow the rules. 

MR*P was designed to be a *safe* place to express ones spiritual belief, particularly in the more 'dubious' elements of religion and the paranormal.  But users should understand that in posting there, they must maintain that level of comfort for other members. 

If you want to compare notes in a relaxed atmosphere, MR&P is for you.  If you wish to engage others in vigorous questioning, P&S may be a better fit.  Each forum has a different mood. 

And if members can use the forums as intended, then EVERY MEMBER should be given access and permitted to post without fear of bias. 

That includes MR&P. 

I have no idea WHAT happened to give Paradigm and Cervantes cause to feel unwelcome in that forum and I really don't care.  We need to make an effort to make sure that every belief is given space there.  That's what's important. 

The job of that forum is to give every member a chance to SAFELY (without rigorous questioning and without rancor) express his or her spritual views. 

If the mods can't help the forum do its job then maybe the mods need a new job.  If members cannot respect the rules and intention of MR&P, then they should be disallowed.  Otherwise, every belief is sacred in MR&P.  You can't pry beliefs open with a scalpel and rummage inside like in P&S, but handle them gently and with respect and you just might learn something valuable. 

As for mod bias, I believe most mods are willing to listen to the members in the forums they moderate.  I hope the mods will lighten up and give MR&P a chance to bloom with all its petals intact.  (i.e: lets give everyone room to express their spirituality). 

EvErYoNe.  :flowerchild:

(koombaya)


Wow, THANKS for saying that Ellemysh.

You hit the nail on the head... and you were more TACTFUL than I.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: MOTH]
    #4888712 -

No kidding.

What is Swami or anyone else wanted to post something that did not fit the mterial for the new forum, but he did not want to be questioned or debated. He then has no where to post it.

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Rose]
    #4888719 -

I know Swami, Paradigm and I WANT to use the NEW forum... and HISTORY HAS SHOWN, WE OBEY THE RULES.

Not ONE of us has broken a rule, in the HISTORY of THAT forum.

By complaining about the BIAS, we are called, "DRAMA QUEENS", and "HATE MAGNETS" by the Staff, and... one by one, we are banned. Even though NOBODY in PUBLIC saw us break a SINGLE RULE.

I've worked my ASS off in MR&P making suggestions and doing my best to give it a SEPARATE identity from P&S. You better fucking believe I want to FEEL SAFE, AS I MAKE FUTURE CONTRIBUTIONS to THAT Forum. I helped MAKE it!

The Staff has treated us with BIAS, while they claim to, "Protect Others" from BIAS!?

Fix it!

Stop the BIAS.

Admit you fucked up.

Clear Swami and Paradigm's record.

Promise not to do it again.

Follow Ythan's words to the LETTER.

Then, once this is fixed, give me my job back.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


Edited by Rose (11/03/05 01:58 PM)

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Rose]
    #4888834 -

Cervantes said:
I know Swami, Paradigm and I WANT to use the NEW forum... and HISTORY HAS SHOWN, WE OBEY THE RULES.

Not ONE of us has broken a rule, in the HISTORY of THAT forum.


That is my point...it's unjust to deny anyone a chance to use it as long as they follow the forum rules.

I'm not clairvoyant and don't know for sure if certain members will follow the rules.

But we are doing an injustice not to them, but to ourselves if we don't give them the benefit of the doubt and allow them to particpate in this new venture, this new type of forum. If they are willing, we should allow them to speak among us, and with us.

As Captain Picard might say:

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Edited by EllemyshShade (11/03/05 01:32 PM)

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: MOTH]
    #4888843 -

I can't wait 'till 2,400 AD... when Capt. Piccard is FINALLY old enough to become a Shroomerite. :smile:


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: MOTH]
    #4889197 -

Exactly. The rules as they are layed out are fine. The problem is that one of the moderators in that forum actively witch hunts through the threads trying at all costs to call something a "mockery"  of the forum.

This over-enthusiasm is ruining the forum for the people on the targeted list. ((the ones believed to be the witches, (read skeptics))

So certain personal  beliefs and even individuals are being excluded from the forum unrightfully. This is the actual mockery of the forum which is in fact occuring, and it's being done by a moderator of all people, IN A FORUM DEDICATED TO BEING A SAFE PLACE TO DISCUSS YOUR BELIEFS!!!

:dumblol:


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:orly:


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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Rose]
    #4889347 -

I think the problem with the new forum is the rules itself. People should be able to post secularist or logic-driven ideas as long as they do it in their own thread. If is unfair to give the mystical and paranormal people their own forum to discuss without debate and not do the same for those who are not of that grain.

I think anyone should be able to post whatever they want in that forum as long as it represents their beliefs. As long as their beliefs are not argued in other threads, this would be the best way to do it.

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Redstorm]
    #4889372 -

It's not like there isn't a forum to post that stuff in, that's what the P and S forum is for, maybe I would agree with you if this was the only forum that covers spirituality, but there are two, so go post secular, logical, skeptical ideas in P and S.


--------------------


Got a question about a substance?  Erowid might already have your answer! Have questions about the  mushroom experience? The  Tripper's FAQ may have your answer or someone else might have had your question before.
         
I know up on the top you are seeing great sights, but down at the bottom we, too, should have rights.
  - Theodor Seuss Geisel Dr. Suess

"I didn't come here to be easily understood" - Steve

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: gdman]
    #4889373 -

What if they don't want their philosophical idea debated or challenged?

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: gdman]
    #4889456 -

Yes. it should be the mood of the forum that is different like elimy said. Not for the mods to try and interpret what the difference between a religious and a spiritual belief is etc. etc. You can't possibly do that with any degree of sanityand trying to do that has lead us all here to where we are now mucking up Ythan's thread.


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:orly:


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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: gdman]
    #4891818 -

I'm in tears right now... YOU DON'T GET IT!

Here's a post I made in the NEW forum.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/4888991

Cervantes said:
Freaking out squares, is a HIPPIE SACRAMENT!

See title,

I find such acts spiritual, and one of the things that sets my faith apart from Christianity.

I grew up in Utah, and started to smoke, to FREAK OUT the Mormons.

It is a HARD spiritual practice to explain, even to The Shroomery Staff... as it IS practically trolling... but it is a SPIRITUAL PRACTICE... a long standing Hippie Ritual... one I hold dear, and I suspect other hippies can relate to my feelings.

FREAK OUT THE SQUARES!

Thoughts?



/me does his best to impersonate Homer Simpson, dawns a jester hat, cranks the car stereo and sings along.... "UPTOWN GIRL... SHE'S BEEN LIVIN' IN HER UPTOWN WORLD..."


Then I went to work... came home... and saw this:

Quote:
From: Wiccan_Seeker
This is just a courtesy notice that your thread "Freaking out squares, is a HIPPIE SACRAMENT!" has been moved. You can now find it here.

Reason for move: If this is part of your spirituality it belongs in the spirituality forum. But it looks like a provocation thread to me. Mysticism, Religion or the Paranormal, this thread is none and it attracts only the ones Fighting The Good Fight(TM) with you.



And then, this:

Quote:
From: Phred
This is just a courtesy notice that your thread "Freaking out squares, is a HIPPIE SACRAMENT!" has been moved. You can now find it here.

Reason for move: Nothing to do with philosophy or spirituality. Off to The Pub with it.


Guys, this is CRUEL.

WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU KNOW ABOUT MY SPIRITUALITY?????????

I was telling THE TRUTH!

I am in tears, I HAVE NEVER BEEN SO LET DOWN BY THIS COMMUNITY IN MY LIFE! I'm a FUCKING HIPPIE. I BELIEVE IN IT. I created the TRIPPER'S FAQ, based on MY SPIRITUALITY. Good enough for a FAQ, but not enough for the SPIRITUAL FORUM, where MY BELIEFS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE PROTECTED. If I said, "FUCK YOU" I'd be banned, but you'd better fucking believe I considered it. It is HOW I FEEL.

LOOK AT WHAT YOU ARE DOING!

Just FIX the PROBLEM!

I AM SERIOUS!

STOP BAITING ME INTO SAYING SOMETHING I'LL REGRET!

I know DAMN WELL which forum I posted in. the ONE that PROTECTS my BELIEFS. I was denied by BOTH FORUMS. WTF?

I want MY SPIRITUALITY treated the SAME as EVERYONE ELSE'S.

If that is provocation... I'm at a loss.

WTF?

WTF?

WTF?

Think I'm PISSED?

You'd be fucking right ON THE MARK.

Before ANYONE tells me to CALM DOWN, FIX THIS FUCKING PROBLEM!

Now, you're treating MY SPIRITUALITY with BIAS.

I am dead serious.

Fix this problem. Fix it NOW. Don't fuck with me any more.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Rose]
    #4892010 -

Yeah, I agree. get that valium tho :thumbup:


--------------------
:orly:


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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Rose]
    #4892132 -

I'll PM you my Addy. :tongue:

I could use one or four.

Quote:
Cervantes said:

The Staff has treated us with BIAS, while they claim to, "Protect Others" from BIAS!?

Fix it!

Stop the BIAS.

Admit you fucked up.

Clear Swami and Paradigm's record.

Promise not to do it again.

Follow Ythan's words to the LETTER.

Then, once this is fixed, give me my job back.




--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


Edited by Rose (11/04/05 12:28 AM)

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Rose]
    #4892168 -

Sorry, all I got's erb. :lol:

I'm afraid to go in that forum.


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:orly:


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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Microcosmatrix]
    #4892175 -

I gots herb too... and now that I've smoked some, I've calmed a bit.

Thanks Shroomism for returning the thread.

That means a LOT to me.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Rose]
    #4892193 -

Good, and good that your thread was moved back. I posted in it.


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:orly:


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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Ythan]
    #4892425 -

As pissed as I am abut the reasons my thread was initially moved... I am sorta' happy it happened.

It does put the BIAS I am talking about in THE SPOTLIGHT.

Seriously, What The Fuck is going on, when THAT thread, was MOVED by TWO MODS who have "Supposedly" been READING what I am saying in here?

The FIRST fucking time I exercised my spirituality, by starting a new thread, in there, the thread was moved.

Once moved into P&S, the LIBERAL of the two Spirituality forums, it was moved again because it was, "NOT SPIRITUAL" ENOUGH!?! That offends me to my SPIRITUAL core.

Was this done so people could call me a DRAMA QUEEN, when I complained... to start my trail towards UNJUST BANS?

Would you guys REALLY rather send me away, than admit your past BIAS?

Can SOMEBODY, ANYBODY please fix this BIAS? Please somebody up top say something NEW. This is getting ridiculous.

The thread was moved back, GREAT.

Now, I would like to see The Staff address and fix, WHY the thread had to be moved in the first place. I am running out of positive/neutral ways to express my opinion of Staff intelligence. This is EXACTLY the SAME issue I was TRYING TO FIX, when I STEPPED DOWN.

Don't fucking squash me like a bug... just 'cause you can.

THIS POINT SHOULDN'T TAKE MONTHS, and ME STEPPING DOWN AS A MOD, TO MAKE!

YTHAN? THOR? SEUSS? Anybody other than GEO?

You can either fix it, or keep doing what you do: Pretend PUBLICLY noting is wrong, and PERSECUTE those who speak against the BIAS!

Please.

Say you fucked up, promise to stop the bias. Lift Swami's bans, clear Paradigm's record, reinstate me as a MOD. Problem FIXED.

or...

Do nothing... and suffer YEARS OF DRAMA, and keep telling yourself the members you CRUSH, are the BAD GUYS.

Which option is better? The answer is NOT hard for me to see.

If you want me to get where YOU ARE COMING FROM, please, a good start would be to STOP PUNISHING PEOPLE LIKE ME, FOR BREAKING NO RULES.

Let's start there, shall we?

It is like some of you Staffers think I'm lying, kidding, NOT SERIOUS. Do you THINK I mean the OPPOSITE OF EVERYTHING I have said?

I say what I MEAN. I'm a simple read. Don't add TOO mush subtext. What you see, is what you get. If I say I believe something, I do.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


Edited by Rose (11/04/05 02:33 AM)

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Rose]
    #4892475 -

Quote:
Then, once this is fixed, give me my job back.


Where are the all capital letters? Shouldn't that read
"Then, once this is fixed, GIVE ME MY JOB BACK!"

Quote:
Fix this problem. Fix it NOW. Don't fuck with me any more.


:poke:


--------------------

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Rose]
    #4892477 -

The caps are stretegically picked...

... at RANDOM.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Rose]
    #4892554 -

*strategically.

Los Molinos!  Son mis esposas y mis chicas y mis brujas.  :frown:


--------------------
Jerry Garcia. JERRY GARCIA! JERRY GARCIA!!!!

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: gdman]
    #4896877 -

gdman said:
It's not like there isn't a forum to post that stuff in, that's what the P and S forum is for, maybe I would agree with you if this was the only forum that covers spirituality, but there are two, so go post secular, logical, skeptical ideas in P and S.


I'm sure theres a forum for everything, but do you honestly believe that cartoons belong in MS&P forum any more than cervantes post?

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/4891830/an/0/page/0


--------------------
California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #4899129 -

Good question.


I imagine Pris, there is no problem with THAT post, because it was made with the RIGHT intentions... :wink:


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #4899244 -

Quote:
do you honestly believe that cartoons belong in MS&P forum any more than cervantes post?


As the record shows, somebody put the futurama thread back after I moved it :wink:


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

:nyan: LGBT - Love God Before Tradition :nyan:

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Asante]
    #4899325 -

If THAT had been MY post... I'd be SO pissed at you!

:tongue:


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: geokills]
    #4899631 -

Geo, I've seen you write many things, public and some private. Your posts in this thread are truly disappointing to me.

Attitudes and reasoning like this are why my participation at this site has dropped to almost nothing.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #4900014 -

luvdemshrooms said:
Geo, I've seen you write many things, public and some private. Your posts in this thread are truly disappointing to me.

Attitudes and reasoning like this are why my participation at this site has dropped to almost nothing.


Specifically, what attitudes and reasoning are you referring to?


--------------------
:orly:


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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #4900534 -

Frankly luvdem, it is when I pissed you off, last year, that I changed my mind about BOGUS bans.

After quite a bit of thought, I did NOT like making YOU, a VETERAN, feel unwelcome here... for speaking your mind.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


Edited by Rose (11/06/05 02:08 PM)

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #4903879 -

I'm sorry you feel that way luvdem.  But honestly I have too many other things to handle in my daily life to continue the back and forth in this thread, hence my recent silence within.  Perhaps if you would have stated exactly what has disappointed you, I would be able to improve my future statements to cover things you feel I may have missed or glossed over.  However, I do want to reiterate that this forum is not for contesting or petitioning bans so if that is your gripe, well then you're going to have to deal with it yourself. 

If your disappointment lies in the alleged bias of moderation in our new MR&P forum, it would serve you well to first take up this concern with the moderators of the forum since they are the primary caretakers of each individual slice of this Shroomery community.  Failing that, bring your detailed concerns to the administration if you feel further intervention is necessary.  I don't and can't read every post that is made here, and thus I'm not going to be able to effectively address all concerns.  But if you feel there is something that requires administrative attention, you have a responsibility to clearly present your case to an admin (including specific links to relevant threads) so that we can review the incident and take action where deemed appropriate.  The vague statements and continual digression towards previously banned users is what has halted my participation in this thread. 

Furthermore, I contend that it is the new and misunderstood nature of the MR&P forum that has resulted in the passion exhibited from users such as Cerv and Paradigm.  MR&P is not S&P Part 2.  While it admittedly may cover similar topics from time to time, it is its own forum, with its own guidelines, and own genre of discussion (largely centered around radical ideas based upon pure speculation or gut feeling as opposed to a more literal and rational pool of discussion in P&S).  I think we will all see that as time progresses, the forum will mold itself into equilibrium with the rest of the BB - but that at the present moment, people are just having a hard time adjusting to the change and the fact that this forum will undoubtedly be one of our more moderation-intensive forums by design.  Again, if you feel moderation is being handled unfairly, I implore you to contact me citing specific examples so that I may take action.  For the record, I already have reacted to one report and reversed action last week, in addition to having sent out a private notice to our MR&P moderators about their related conduct in the given forum.  But until you come to me with specific information and not just a general distaste for my own discourse - don't burn my time! :tongue:


--------------------

--------------------
┼ ··∙   long live the shroomery  ∙·· ┼
...╬π╥ ╥π╬...

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: geokills]
    #4903971 -

I'm guessing that he thinks you sound just like a politician. I could be wrong. When's the last time you dosed and spoke with God?


--------------------
:orly:


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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Microcosmatrix]
    #4904475 -

Last trip was September 24, 2005.
I speak with myself daily :wink:


--------------------

--------------------
┼ ··∙   long live the shroomery  ∙·· ┼
...╬π╥ ╥π╬...

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: geokills]
    #4904497 -

Amazing thread! Lucky dawg!


--------------------
:orly:


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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Microcosmatrix]
    #4904636 -

Quote:
I'm not going to be able to effectively address all concerns. But if you feel there is something that requires administrative attention, you have a responsibility to clearly present your case to an admin (including specific links to relevant threads) so that we can review the incident and take action where deemed appropriate. The vague statements and continual digression towards previously banned users is what has halted my participation in this thread.


Geo, you have LOCKED every single thread where I have attempted to do what you suggest.

Also, in order to discuss BIAS, previous bans MUST be mentioned... sigh. So, it is sad to hear one of the reasons WHY you have stopped posting in this thread, is because I HAVE attempted to SPECIFICALLY address the BIAS I percieve (and you don't want me talking about SPECIFIC Staff Violations in PUBLIC). Yet, the OTHER reason you haven't posted, is because I HAVEN'T posted ENOUGH specifics!?

Let me repeat that: The TWO reasons you STOPPED posting in THIS THREAD were:

1. I was being TOO SPECIFIC.

2. I WAS BEING TOO VAGUE.

Wow.

I think THAT is bias, geo.

Furthermore, when I present evidence, The Staff gets (UNDERSTANDABLY) upset... which limits my freedom in the MR&P forum, as I HAVE presented in detail (and LINKS), in this thread.

NOW you tell me, I have recieved NO RESPONSE, because I am VAGUE?

When I was SPECIFIC, my threads got DUMPED or LOCKED, geo.

I'd LOVE to be able to QUOTE myself, from some PAST threads (it'd save me a SHITLOAD fof time), but I CAN'T (THEY ARE IN THE DUMP or LOCKED). I HAVE offered SPECIFIC evidence... and I have only been VAGUE in THIS THREAD, to keep it from getting LOCKED... like ALL the others.

If you PROMISE not to get UPSET, I WILL present SPECIFIC evidence...

Otherwise, LOOK TO MY PAST STATEMENTS ON THIS ISSUE, look in here, in the OLD S&P, in MR&P, in P&S, in The Dump and in THE MOD FORUM. I AM on record, man. BEYOND on record! In fact, since you have LOCKED and DUMPED the VAST majority of the threads in question, geo... I think you ALREADY KNOW what I think, and why. Otherwise, you'd be illiterate.

I have said what I have to say, SO MANY TIMES, people (Including YOU) have told me to STOP talking about it. NOW, I have been TOO vague?

If you want details, you'll get details. I'll post them TONIGHT.

Please READ them, and... please, don't shoot the messenger. You asked for it.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


Edited by Rose (11/07/05 03:28 PM)

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Rose]
    #4904648 -

I think he wants you to PM him so that he can keep up the iron curtain. No offense geo, it's a very nice curtain.  :thumbup:


--------------------
:orly:


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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Microcosmatrix]
    #4904654 -

I HAVE been in PM correspondence with geo. He made it clear to me, we hit a PRIVATE dead end... when I asked him HOW to communicate with the MR&P mods PRODUCTIVELY, and he suggested I shut up, go to another forum, and then made a jab about my stepping down. I took the jab PERSONALLY.

I have No desire to further subject myself to such PRIVATE antagonism.

Besides, it is best if I can have this discussion free of as much PERSONAL baggage as possible. I doubt geo would make such jabs PUBLICLY.

I'll post it here, so MORE than one admin may see it. Also, THAT was geo's suggestion in THIS thread. And IME geo's replies are more, "Tactful" in public, than in private.

But I won't have time to COMPILE this novella's worth of info until later tonight.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


Edited by Rose (11/07/05 02:45 PM)

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Rose]
    #4904699 -

Also,

Quote:
geokills said:

10/24/05

Swami has been banned from the WA&F forum for a period of one-week while we take the time to fine tune and implement further changes on the current S&P dual forum makeup.


Swami has already served TWO WEEKS of his ONE WEEK, WA&F ban... for breaking the, "Don't EVER question OUR actions IF your name is SWAMI" rule.

It is past time to lift it.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


Edited by Rose (11/07/05 02:58 PM)

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Rose]
    #4904870 -

> Also, in order to discuss BIAS, previous bans MUST be mentioned...

So far as I'm concerned, the first Swami bans have indeed been a little sketchy; but his subsequent public actions after these bans were in place has been out of line because he failed to heed direct advice from staff members (even if he thought the advice was bogus). I know we can learn a lot from the past, but the entire Swami issue has become so incredibly intertwined with conflicting stories from so many sides that I have decided to simply let it be, am not taking it into account during the CURRENT discussion about MR&P, and won't address any of the past history associated with it because of all the confusion.

Obviously something fucked up at one point (or many points) along the line, but it's done and I'm not going to go digging through literally hundreds of posts strewn across many tens of threads, as well as the necessary personal inquiry that would be required of many involved persons.. because at this point it just isn't feasible and certainly not practical. Human memory is prone to errors and since the whole issue is so convoluted, I've given up on it and am concentrating on keeping communication flowing for present and future management. So save us both time, and let this one go because you won't be hearing anymore from me about it, and I believe that the silence from the rest of the admins on the issue speaks for itself.


> If you PROMISE not to get UPSET, I WILL present SPECIFIC evidence...

As stated, PM me this information so that we won't have two or ten other members jumping in to offer their own personal analysis of the situation. Whether or not you've met a perceived "PRIVATE dead end", there is a chain of command so that decisions may be made and implemented efficiently. Particularly when it comes to disciplinary action, holding these matters in public debate just draws things out and makes it much more difficult to come to any kind of consensus since many users have loyal friends (and enemies) who will get involved and confuse the entire matter.

Additionally, if the issue is more than 3 days old, forget about it - because indeed I have read what you and others have had to say, I have tried to keep an eye on the forum in my spare time, and I have since given personal direction to the MR&P moderators in hopes that from here on out we won't have so much of the drama that has plagued the new forum since its beginning a couple weeks ago. In other words, if you are only planning on repeating what you have stated, don't bother - but if you have perceived continuing bias since last Friday, by all means send me (or any/all admins) the relevant links and personal explanation. Not all the admins read WA&F all the time, so if you are so concerned about them all seeing your statements, send the PM to all of us, or simply ask one of us to post a copy in the admin forum for other admins to review.

As for Swami's WA&F ban - and as some members who have asked about their respective bans are already aware - we do not currently have the technical ability to remove forum-specific bans due to the software renovations Ythan is making to our banning system. When the functionality to remove forum-specific bans is back in place, I will gladly unban Swami (as well as a few other users from the Pub). I have been fully aware of the delay and even made mention of this to the other administrators on October 31st when his ban was supposed to be lifted.

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: geokills]
    #4907830 -

Geo, thank you for your post. I'm gonna' go over a FEW points, but overall, I appreciate your new comments... a LOT. :smile:

geokills said:
> Also, in order to discuss BIAS, previous bans MUST be mentioned...

So far as I'm concerned, the first Swami bans have indeed been a little sketchy; but his subsequent public actions after these bans were in place has been out of line because he failed to heed direct advice from staff members (even if he thought the advice was bogus).  I know we can learn a lot from the past, but the entire Swami issue has become so incredibly intertwined with conflicting stories from so many sides that I have decided to simply let it be, am not taking it into account during the CURRENT discussion about MR&P, and won't address any of the past history associated with it because of all the confusion. 

Obviously something fucked up at one point (or many points) along the line, but it's done and I'm not going to go digging through literally hundreds of posts strewn across many tens of threads, as well as the necessary personal inquiry that would be required of many involved persons.. because at this point it just isn't feasible and certainly not practical.  Human memory is prone to errors and since the whole issue is so convoluted, I've given up on it and am concentrating on keeping communication flowing for present and future management.  So save us both time, and let this one go because you won't be hearing anymore from me about it, and I believe that the silence from the rest of the admins on the issue speaks for itself.


May as well get it out of the way...

So, you're saying, that since there are different opinions about Swami's ban, you are going to let it be... ALTHOUGH you concede his bans that started Swami's PARANOIA were indeed bullshit?

Better... you have come a long way geo. Thanks for admitting you guys fucked up, SPECIFICALLY ON Swami's bans. Thank you for broadening this conversation, so I am not CORNERED by simply saying so.

However, this is NO reason to STOP looking at the issue geo. This is THE REASON to FIX the issue.

Why?

Because you answered this question yourself. YOU FUCKED UP. YOU STARTED IT. Say sorry, lift the bans, as soon as you can. Promise not to do it again. FIXED. :smile:

You're ALMOST there.

The alternative is nothing but mean, and biased.

Remember the night this ALL broke out geo, we were talking about the promotional tri-fold and you said something like, "I will talk about it more, but I have to attend to the Swami drama."? I THOUGHT I had YOUR BACK when I went out there and helped. I think you felt the SAME WAY. :smirk:

I put my foot in the door, and have FORCED you to address this issue PUBLICLY... and it HAS been ugly (which NEITHER OF US WANTED)... but I STILL did what I feel I had to do.

WHY?

Because BIAS DIVIDES THE SHROOMERY... THE STAFF... THE ADMINISTRATION. It has been THE BIGGEST STAFF PROBLEM since I signed on. You know it. I know it. The STAFF knows it. The S&P community certainly knows it.

Ythan's post. The FIRST post of THIS THREAD says everything I am saying here. Keep THAT in mind while you REFUSE to hear about SWAMI, and his UNJUST BAN. :smirk:

It must be FIXED. It must be! It is SO simple. It is the POSITIVE choice. It STOPS this YEAR LONG CYCLE OF DRAMA. :smile:

I'm a regular Shroomerite citizen, BECAUSE I feel fixing this issue NOW, despite the DIRT and HURT FEELINGS, is MORE IMPORTANT than almost ANY OTHER ISSUE YOU CAN FIX TODAY. It has certainly been one of the biggest pains in your ass AND mine, this last year. See why I want it FIXED? LOOK AT WHAT HAPPENS TO THIS PLACE WHEN SWAMI IS BANNED UNJUSTLY!

Isn't HISTORY teacher enough? Isn't history tellin' y'all to STOP, and FIX IT? Perhaps history's only talking to me nowadays... but I think you know what I'm saying here.

This FIX begins and ENDS with the lifting of Swami's bans... because SWAMI IS THE ONLY SHROOMERITE WHO DOESN'T BREAK RULES, TO GET BANNED! He is the ONLY STAIN on your otherwise clean gown.

It really concerns me that you WILL HEAR NONE OF IT. Especially when you admit you started it. How on Earth can a BAN be better than an APOLOGY? Christ, man, this is The Shroomery!

I will not take silence for an answer, although I will gladly move this particular conversation to PM. :smile:

And it won't be dirty from my end.

geokills said:
> If you PROMISE not to get UPSET, I WILL present SPECIFIC evidence...

As stated, PM me this information so that we won't have two or ten other members jumping in to offer their own personal analysis of the situation.  Whether or not you've met a perceived "PRIVATE dead end", there is a chain of command so that decisions may be made and implemented efficiently.  Particularly when it comes to disciplinary action, holding these matters in public debate just draws things out and makes it much more difficult to come to any kind of consensus since many users have loyal friends (and enemies) who will get involved and confuse the entire matter. 

Additionally, if the issue is more than 3 days old, forget about it - because indeed I have read what you and others have had to say, I have tried to keep an eye on the forum in my spare time, and I have since given personal direction to the MR&P moderators in hopes that from here on out we won't have so much of the drama that has plagued the new forum since its beginning a couple weeks ago.  In other words, if you are only planning on repeating what you have stated, don't bother - but if you have perceived continuing bias since last Friday, by all means send me (or any/all admins) the relevant links and personal explanation.  Not all the admins read WA&F all the time, so if you are so concerned about them all seeing your statements, send the PM to all of us, or simply ask one of us to post a copy in the admin forum for other admins to review. 

As for Swami's WA&F ban - and as some members who have asked about their respective bans are already aware - we do not currently have the technical ability to remove forum-specific bans due to the software renovations Ythan is making to our banning system.  When the functionality to remove forum-specific bans is back in place, I will gladly unban Swami (as well as a few other users from the Pub).  I have been fully aware of the delay and even made mention of this to the other administrators on October 31st when his ban was supposed to be lifted. 



THIS is the part of your post I liked most. :smile:

Thanks for letting me off the hook. I did NOT want to post THAT in here. I WILL start a PM correspondence with you as LONG as you promise your WALL is still DOWN in private, for a BIT, at least... since you must admit, this DRAMA could still use a BIT of cleaning up. :wink:

Your explanation of Swami's delayed release :smirk: makes perfect sense. I'll quit my bitchin'. I HOPE MR&P considers the SAME approach.

I'll wait a bit, and see what they decide before making ANY FURTHER stink.

I HAVE noticed a change in tone in the new forum, and I must say, I LIKE it.

Thank you for admitting the change in Moderation approach, and thank you for SAYING something to your Mods about this. I am MUCH less paranoid about posting in there... although I still think the public should choose a Mod too. Still a bit one sided in there, Moderator wise. Skeptics understand the need for that forum, AND they understand its rules. It is THEIR forum too.

It is SLOW in there now, but like The Pub, in time, I think it will be SOMETHING SPECIAL.

So, unless Ythan unveils the new banning gizmo tomorrow, I'm gonna' take a couple of days OFF from this issue, and send you a PM after we BOTH have had a break, but while it is still fresh on our minds. I'll send you a PM, and HOPEFULLY chat with you on IRC, in a few days. :wink:

MOST OF ALL, thank you geo, for treating me like I'm the SAME guy I ALWAYS have been. That change in tone, means MORE to me than words can say. Perhaps there is an emoticon to express how THIS feels to me, but I haven't seen it.

Thanks again, for compromising so generously. The problem STILL exists, but I MUCH prefer the Stage you have set for future discussion.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


Edited by Rose (11/08/05 01:55 AM)

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Rose]
    #4909034 -

:penguinmonkey:

thank god for that.
you've changed, Cervantes, hope you're ok.


--------------------
buh

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: shirley knott]
    #4910790 -

Personally, I like the new Cervantes JUST FINE. He's MUCH more SENSIBLE and FAIR-MINDED now.


--------------------

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Rose]
    #4914139 -

Cervantes said:
Frankly luvdem, it is when I pissed you off, last year, that I changed my mind about BOGUS bans.

After quite a bit of thought, I did NOT like making YOU, a VETERAN, feel unwelcome here... for speaking your mind.


Those bans were as bogus as they come, which is why although I agree with your statements in this thread.... I also relish the irony.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: geokills]
    #4914172 -

I could give a rats ass about the mods in the new forum, and please note I didn't say I was disappointed in you... merely your statements in this thread. I have always found you to be a rather agreeable fellow.

Over time here I feel a few of the mods have gotten out of hand, and little that is visable is done to stop them.

I didn't, and still haven't, gone into more specific reasoning because it's been done and I have no wish to spend a great deal of time repeating what has already been said.

So no hard feelings I hope.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Ythan]
    #4914540 -

:thumbup:


--------------------
Child of the 60's, Tripping ever since.


:sun:

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #4915969 -

luvdemshrooms said:
Cervantes said:
Frankly luvdem, it is when I pissed you off, last year, that I changed my mind about BOGUS bans.

After quite a bit of thought, I did NOT like making YOU, a VETERAN, feel unwelcome here... for speaking your mind.


Those bans were as bogus as they come, which is why although I agree with your statements in this thread.... I also relish the irony.


As do I, I couldn't help but mention it. :smirk:

Of course, you DID flame me... AFTER the first ban. :tongue:

REAL IRONY, would be if BOTH of us got permabanned over this thread. :rotfl:


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


Edited by Rose (11/10/05 12:11 AM)

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: geokills]
    #12602462 -

:headbanger:

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