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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: geokills]
    #4872917 -

:heart:


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Ythan]
    #4875525 -

Recent administrative comments have made me wonder how this relates to Mod Bias in the S&P Forums. People are being banned and warned for their BELIEFS and not for BROKEN RULES.

Could you please respond?


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Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Rose]
    #4875851 -

I will respond as I have perceived the situation. As far as I can gather, your comments are not so much directed towards the P&S Forum, but rather it's offshoot counterpart MR&P. That being said, I see the warnings being given in the MR&P forum not as an excuse to lay down a ban, but simply a stern introduction for this newly created forum, aimed primarily to exhibit that this new forum is going to be managed in a significantly stricter (and certainly more subjective) fashion than its counterpart the P&S forum.

Up until now, the first attempt at splitting S&P was a very rough road since a clear objective had not been presented. By liberal use of the warning system, we are effectively sending the message that the users need to be very mindful of how they conduct themselves, and that this new forum is for positive participation and not for any type of critical expression or debate. Simply put, the MR&P forum is designed as a haven from negativity, and the warnings that are being handed out are done in efforts to clarify this stipulation to members who may have posted disagreement or dissenting viewpoints. While I may feel that at least one of the warnings given out thus far should never be used to justify an actual ban, I also feel that it is important to make ourselves abundently clear to the participants of the new forum, sooner rather than later.

.. and remember, if ever you have been warned or banned, and would like further explaination or a review of the action, all you need to do is PM/email the moderator who took the action, or ultimately contact a member of the administration through use of our PM's, email, or support ticket system.


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┼ ··∙   long live the shroomery  ∙·· ┼
...╬π╥ ╥π╬...

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: geokills]
    #4875902 -

If MP&S is designed as a haven from negativity, it does a piss-poor job at it. Those who express certain points of view are censored, shouted down, and harrassed by the mods. As near as I can tell, that forum is nothing more than a private clubhouse for people whose views coincide with those of the mods. They have created a hostile atmosphere for those who have less mystical beliefs, even if those views are expressed in a positive, constructive manner. If the forum wishes to be free from negativity, this hypocrisy cannot be allowed to continue.


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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Silversoul]
    #4876911 -

Paradigm said:
If MP&S is designed as a haven from negativity, it does a piss-poor job at it. Those who express certain points of view are censored, shouted down, and harrassed by the mods. As near as I can tell, that forum is nothing more than a private clubhouse for people whose views coincide with those of the mods. They have created a hostile atmosphere for those who have less mystical beliefs, even if those views are expressed in a positive, constructive manner. If the forum wishes to be free from negativity, this hypocrisy cannot be allowed to continue.


I agree.

The Staff's tactics in there, go against Ythan's words, it seems.

People are being punnished for their beliefs, rather than for breaking a rule.

The forum rules are quite clear. They weren't broken. Not in Swami nor Paridigm's case.

No Staff member has even ATTEMPTED to prove otherwise.

Instead, they lock/dump/warn/ban.

Every single Moderator of THAT forum has PUBLICLY stated their bias towards Swami.

This is NOT right.

Seems the place was made, simply to keep Swami and Paradigm out.

You know me Ythan.

I bitch a lot, but I am no liar.


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Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Rose]
    #4877005 -

Look, GUYS, let's not fuck up this wonderful thread with all this ridiculousness. For crying out loud, there is no need to continue bitching about Swami's many run-ins with the staff. Reasons were given, even if they had nothing to do with any specific forum rule. Secondly, what is done, is done.. and that should be the end of it. If there are future problems where you feel you have been wronged, by all means please contact the admins outlining what specifically happened and why you feel it to be in error.

There is no need for you to fight Swami's or anyone else's battle for them, and if you have a concern about disciplinary action taken against you personally, you ought to contact an administrator directly instead of puking this ugliness all over the BB. I'm sure that if we received what we felt to be an honest petition to be given a another chance, and enough time had gone by, that the admins and moderators would be willing to give most banned members another go. But I have to tell ya, and I can't stress this enough; Trying to brute force the issue is just not the way to go about it.


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┼ ··∙   long live the shroomery  ∙·· ┼
...╬π╥ ╥π╬...

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: geokills]
    #4877265 -

all issues to be taken up in a public irc meeting sometime soon, right?


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Use the Fucking Reply To Feature You Lazy Pieces of Shit!

afoaf said:
Jim, if you were in my city, I would let you fuck my wife.

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Jim]
    #4877362 -

The viking is primarily responsible for coordinating that - I don't doubt it will happen, but I don't know exactly when. An announcement will be made as the time draws near.


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┼ ··∙   long live the shroomery  ∙·· ┼
...╬π╥ ╥π╬...

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: geokills]
    #4878419 -

geokills said:
Look, GUYS, let's not fuck up this wonderful thread with all this ridiculousness.  For crying out loud, there is no need to continue bitching about Swami's many run-ins with the staff.  Reasons were given, even if they had nothing to do with any specific forum rule.


This is PRECISELY why I am asking YTHAN for clarification, Geo. Because Swami's ban, and Paradigm's warning had NOTHING to do with the FORUM RULES. Therefore, they could not AVOID punishment (unfair)... and the PUBLIC DOESN'T UNDERSTAND (confusing). On top of THAT, you in particular, Geo, keep DUMPING THREADS WHENEVER THIS TOPIC COMES UP. But you won't deny the TRUTH of my statements. You keep admitting YOUR BIAS, in PUBLIC. That is NOT EXPLANATION ENOUGH. Stop pretending it is!

As you JUST ADMITTED AGAIN, IN PUBLIC, Geo; Swami broke NO RULE.

This is SIMPLE, Geo:

If he BROKE NO RULE, and was PERMA-BANNED, he was PERMA-BANNED WITH BIAS.

You DON'T EVER DENY IT!

Since I share MANY of Paradigm and Swami's Spiritual beliefs, I FEAR FOR MY FUTURE IN THAT FORUM. I DON'T KNOW WHAT I CAN DO TO AVOID THE SAME UNJUST TREATMENT... other than LIE, or VANISH. Neither option is fair.

Yet earlier today, you said:

Quote:
geokills said:
This thread has been closed.

Reason:
I cannot sanction this perpetuation of madness. This thread has veered off-topic and all I see is a bunch of people arguing for the sake of arguing. This forum is going to be protected by subjective means, and if you can't handle that - stay out.


THAT COULD HAVE JUST AS EASILY BEEN ME, BEING MISTREATED!

In fact, it was YOU who said Swami would, from NOW ON, get SPECIAL treatment... ie: He would be treated WITH BIAS. I remember, I READ THAT THREAD TOO.

Quote:
geokills said:
There are no absolutes and there are no rigid rules here. We act as we feel, and those who do not cross us will be given the benefit of the doubt - however those that get on our bad side, for whatever reason, are going to get the short end of the stick more often than not.


Apparently, the stick comes out, EVEN WHEN THE PERSON HAS A VERY CLEAN HISTORY, and BREAKS NO RULE. In fact, if you look back, Swami only APPEARED TO CROSS YOU, after he COMPLAINED ABOUT HIS FIRST, of MANY, UNJUST BANS! I also, read THOSE threads, Geo. :wink:

THAT, Geo, IS THE VERY DEFINITION OF BIAS.

Quote:
Bias:
Adj
1.  An unfair act or policy stemming from prejudice. To influence in a particular, typically unfair direction; prejudice.


Swami is currently banned from THIS forum for the SAME BIAS! He is NOT ALLOWED TO TALK ABOUT HIS BANS, EVEN THOUGH HE BROKE NO RULE, BY YOUR ADMISSION! In THIS VERY THREAD! And you punished him further, FOR COMPLAINING about his UNJUST and BIASED TREATMENT.

Man, this is the RIGHT place to have THIS talk. This thread covers THE EXACT TOPIC, I needed to discuss. MODERATOR, and ADMINISTRATIVE BIAS. It needs to STOP.

Swami, and Paradigm have been Moderated with BIAS. You ADMIT it. THEY BROKE NO RULES for their PUNISHMENT! They were punished for their BELIEFS. How much more evidence does a person NEED to fucking PRESENT? I have YOUR OWN WORDS, and NO BROKEN RULES!

Ythan ADDRESSED BIAS differently in his first post... than you did, in your most recent addition to this thread.

This UNJUST TREATMENT should be CORRECTED... NOW.

Perhaps you should read Ythan's words again, Geo.

Ythan said:
I contend that it is the duty of the administration to extend equal rights and privileges to all members (including disliked and controversial ones), and to ensure that site guidelines are enforced fairly and without prejudice due to an individual's beliefs. The administration should make reasonable accommodations for those with controversial viewpoints, including equal access to the site's resources and a public forum to express their opinions. Under no circumstances should disciplinary or punitive action be based on what could be considered moral judgment, only on specific infractions spelled out in advance. These principles should take priority over all others, especially offering a 'friendly', 'non-threatening' or 'non-controversial' atmosphere. I propose that the freedom we provide is the site's most unique and valuable aspect, and it should be a top priority of the administration to safeguard said freedom.

-Ythan
10/28/05


Pretty clearly stated, Geo.

You just said in your last post, Swami BROKE NO RULE. This leaves us with BIASED MODS, who admit their bias in public, and get YOUR support, for their BIAS. That goes against the VERY NATURE OF THIS COMMUNITY!

Fix it, please.

How on Earth can a SHROOMERITE remain banned because of their, HONEST TO GOD, SPIRITUAL BELIEFS, in light of Ythan's recent posts? In fact, Ythan said FIXING such problems should be your, "TOP PRIORITY"! Paradigm, and Swami have EVERY RIGHT, to post their SPIRITUAL BELIEFS, in that SPIRITUAL FORUM. So STOP BRUSHING US ASIDE! We have fucking RIGHTS here too, Geo!

To this day, neither Swami NOR Paradigm have broken A SINGLE RULE, in THE HISTORY OF THAT FORUM!

WTF?!

I had to STEP DOWN AS A MOD, before I was allowed to publicly address this BIAS honestly. Somebody tell Geo, I AM NOT doing this to fuck up a WONDERFUL discussion, but actually posting ON TOPIC, in the PROPER THREAD. This IS THE THREAD about BIAS.

We should WAIT for someone to BREAK a rule, before PUNISHING THEM. There is NO SHROOMERY, PUNISHMENT LINE OF CREDIT!

Your treatment of people who share my beliefs, has been RACIST, if we were a race. It is WRONG, UNJUST, UNFAIR, CONFUSING... ADD A FEW MORE ADJECTIVES (LIKE FUCKING AND HORSESHIT) AND YOU'LL START TO GET THE IDEA!

Stop telling me this issue is smaller than it is. Stop telling me I CAN'T talk about THIS! I am SICK of that! YOU have to support your Staff, I stepped down so I could BE HONEST. In fact, I stepped down so I COULD talk about this particular ISSUE, REMEMBER?

Why the reverse logic, Geo?

Nazi's, murderers and Child Molesters are welcomed with open arms, but not OLD FASHIONED HIPPIES like Swami and Paradigm, who BROKE NO RULES?

Again, WTF?

I suggest making this issue your, "TOP PRIORITY"! People like me aren't allowed to Moderate unless we KEEP OUR MOUTHS SHUT. We aren't allowed to POST without INVISIBLE RULES we (surprise) KEEP BREAKING. This is SEGREGATION! What is this? Alabama in the 50's?

I want this issue ADDRESSED and FIXED... like YESTERDAY!

When the hippie movement began, it actually MEANT something. Swami, Paradigm, and MY Spirituality is CLOSER to the original "Hippie" Spirituality, than the one we are being FORCED to practice in public. This is LUDICROUS, for a MUSHROOM COMMUNITY!

I am not lying, you've NEVER said I was, Geo... although time, and time again, you have suggested I STOP talking about this in PUBLIC. Well FINALLY Geo, we have a thread made for EXACTLY this subject matter... and the creator of THIS Website, started the thread. Let's talk to him.

Ythan?


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Fiddlesticks.


Edited by Rose (11/01/05 02:29 AM)

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Rose]
    #4878456 -

Didn't you used to be a moderator of some forum?


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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Rose]
    #4878584 -

Cervantes... I hear you and I understand where you are coming from. We are all human and we all make mistakes... The line between freedom of expression and trolling, flaming, etc can be very fine. What may be seen as simple expression in one forum can be seen as trolling in another. Nothing in life is black or white, but rather everything is a shade of gray. Even the admin has trouble with this... some of us want complete freedom of expression while others of us are willing to tolerate censorship of objectionable topics not related to mushrooms. Finding the balance between these two extremes is not easy, even for just five people... add in forty to fifty moderators and it becomes an even larger problem.

I don't want to dwell on the past... mistakes have been made... from doing too much and from not doing enough. However, we are trying to learn from our mistakes. Ythan has been doing a lot of work to try and help balance this out. New tools are in place that help the moderators do their job, help the admin do their job, and provide a better means of communication and accountability for admin/mod actions. These tools also help maintain a level playing field when it comes to admin/mod actions as they relate to general users. Please give this some time and see if it helps. Nothing changes over night and there will always be problems from time to time, but please, be aware that we are trying to help the situation... if the tools that Ythan has written don't help, then we will try something else.

You know that I keep pretty quiet and try to only speak out when I feel it is important. I really feel that the new tools, and the clear "Declaration of Intention" that Ythan has provided will help. It may take a little time... all I ask for is a bit of patience and constructive feedback from time to time letting us know if things are improving or not.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Seuss]
    #4880032 -

There is no, "No Trolling" rule for that particular forum.

And further, his, "Trolling" was actually, asking about his UNJUST BANS?! Which is an ODD definition of trolling, at least, in my book.

If he HAD trolled, he would've violated the TOS, and THEREFORE deserved a SITE WIDE ban. He did not, and NOBODY has ACCUSED him of doing so. Not even those who banned him. His MOST RESENT BAN was unjust, and the Staff has admitted he broke no rule.

I do appreciate you stepping in Seuss. It was time for a NEW voice of reason.

I know these things take time, in the meanwhile, people who share my beliefs are BEING PUNISHED for THEIR BELIEFS. I don't know HOW to watch my back. I'm a white victim of a hate crime.

I TRUST you guys are doing your best, and I APPRECIATE all the changes and discussion we've had so far. I still DON'T KNOW WHAT I CAN DO, other than LIE or GO AWAY, to avoid such bias, myself... at least until this issue is FIXED.

I understand if this may take a while, I already said that, I JUST hope, PUNISHMENT of the INNOCENT will be lifted, once you all get your act together... which I trust you WILL do... although I have taken A LOT of flack in the interim.

Swami, Paradigm and me, have ALL been victims of this viscous cycle. We've all been mistreated, we've all lost faith in this community. We've all lost parts of this community, which we hold dear. AND WE DON'T UNDERSTAND.

The problem is REAL SIMPLE TO FIX.

Thank YOU Seuss, for being the first Admin in a MONTH to actually address my concerns in public. It is about time. I was running out of ways to say the same thing, and people (mostly Staff) were calling me a DRAMA WHORE.

Thanks

:smile:

Now, fix it.

:tongue:


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Fiddlesticks.


Edited by Rose (11/01/05 03:16 PM)

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Rose]
    #4880694 -

Now I am gettin' the message that you're probably tired of hearing from me, but the fact is that I'm here now and I do have a pretty good understanding of how management here works. I don't know where you're getting all these admissions of guilt, bias, and non-rule breaking.. at least I can speak for myself when I relate that you have misconstrued statements of mine as absolute when I have made clear use of an 'IF' qualifier. At any rate, forum rules are not the say-all end-all, we also have site wide rules on Harassment/Respect/DramaQueens/Hate Magnets, not to mention the all inclusive "we do reserve the right to ban anyone for any reason" statement included in our new user agreement / AR&G. Consequently, if someone seems to be demonstrating more of what one might consider negative or deconstructive behavior in a specific forum, regardless of those forum rules, a moderator may choose to remove access to only that forum, since seemingly the user may be able to control him or herself on the rest of the board. This is usually implemented when we receive direct and continued user complaints regarding a specific user.

More concerning to me, is why you insist on fighting someone else's battle for them?.. and why you continue to insinuate that we have some hidden agenda against certain users. Well here's some news, it's not hidden - for those who paid attention to my prior postings on this subject (and not just specific quotes taken out of context), you would know that certain users have been banned (or failed to have their ban lifted) because of their actions after the initial ban. Say you were unjustly arrested for breaking and entering on your friend's property while they were out of town. Well even if you are innocent, you need to play by the rules of the system, and of course if you start yelling and screaming about your innocense and trying to get away, you will probably end up in solitary confinement with a hefty dose of tranquilizers until your arraignment. Similarly, users here may have been banned for questionable reason - yet instead of calmly presenting their case they flip out and sometimes encourage other people to vocalize on their behalf, or worse yet employ puppet accounts to fight their cause. In turn, this lack of tact and respect for the staff is obviously going to play a factor in how the person is subsequently treated.

It has been said time and time again that if a specific user (be it you, Swami, Paradigm, or anyone else) wants to petition for readmission to a given forum, or a reconsideration on any ban, they ought to present their case directly to the administration with their specific reasoning for such a request. I am not opposed to hearing people out and considering their gripe - for crying out loud I do it on a near-daily basis - but this matter has been blown so far out of proportion and is convoluted with so much variance in opinion over the countless threads that have surfaced, that it is no surprise to me we are not getting anywhere. Mind you, continuing this public spectacle won't help any.. I know that Y hates having to sift through this mess, and if I weren't already kneck-deep in it I'd more easily keep my mouth shut too; just remember that when you petition a ban, you can request to have a full administrative review in which the administrative receipient will post your complaint to the rest of the admins for their commentary. Oftentimes, about half of the admins stay out of these inquiries anyway since they are not actively involved on the BB at the given time.. and on ocassion the moderators are also solicited for their opinion, but damn sack o hooeybouey gratuity with an anchovy on top, sometimes people must agree to disagree.


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┼ ··∙   long live the shroomery  ∙·· ┼
...╬π╥ ╥π╬...

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: geokills]
    #4880921 -

No, this problem has not been blown out of proportion. It has been repeatedly silenced by the administration. The fact is that there are certain mods who simply should not be moderating that forum. While Swami may have a history of agitation, I never had any problems in the old S&P. Yet within the short time that the new MP&S forum has been around, I have been given two unwarranted warnings and one unjust banning. Others have had similar experiences with the forum. These moderators accuse me of "cynicism" and "hypocrisy," yet the hypocrisy is all on their side, and the only thing I am cynical about is their blatant bias and the administration's unwillingness to address my concerns about it. I should have the same right to express my beliefs in that forum as anyone else. Yet I have gotten the clear message that my beliefs are not allowed to be expressed, no matter how positively or peacefully they are expressed. Perhaps the forum description should be changed to make it clear that open-mindedness, questioning authority, and independent thought are not allowed..


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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Silversoul]
    #4881981 -

Yeah, I agree.

My problem has been the RESTRICTIONS over talking this out. And, the accusations, that I (like Swami and Paradigm), by bringing it up, CAUSED the problem. Geo of ALL people should know I want to FIX this problem NOW, not DRAG IT OUT.

Yet by painting me, Paradigm and Swami as HATE MAGNETS and DRAMA QUEENS, EVEN THOUGH THE PUBLIC DOES NOT OVERWHELMINGLY THINK SO, geo sets us up to be banned, for VIOLATION OF THE TOS!

Pah!

This is ENTRAPMENT!

Geo if you, or ANY OTHER Shroomerite, ban me for such reasons, EVER, you can start by DELETING ALL MY POSTS.

Keep THAT in mind, when you consider HOW WELL SWAMI has handled his... UMPTEEN UNJUST BANS! Yet HE gets punnished FURTHER for QUESTIONING THE BIAS?

The guy's a fucking SAINT in my eyes.

Ghandi would've snapped by NOW.

Geo, how can you call a guy with a 4.5+ shroom rating, a hate magnet? How can you call someone who complains about UNJUST and BIASED bans, a Drama Queen? Your perception is a bit warped, from where I sit. I'd wager it is warped from where MOST sit.

Swami aside, how exactly does Paradigm fit the profile? How come I don't? See where I'm going with this?

Wiccan held a recent poll, to rate his moderation... and he decided to stay on as Mod... because he received a +5 score. But, please REALIZE, without MODERATOR votes, he would've received a -1, and that INCLUDES my GLOWING +3 review. I was the first to vote.

Wiccan is not to BLAME. Nor should he take the fall. That is NOT my point. He is a FINE Mod. ANY Mod in there, who did such a thing, at this time, would have taken such a hit. My point is: Nobody (not even Wiccan) seemed to notice the PUBLIC voted differently than THE STAFF.

LISTEN TO THE PUBLIC. We ARE dissatisfied with the Moderation of THAT forum. I am not the ONLY one, nor is Swami, nor Paradigm. Apparently, a MAJORITY of Shroomerites feel this way.

You keep asking us, we keep saying so.

I've seen these discussions in the Mod Forum. The Staff has time and again, IGNORED and SILENCED the PUBLIC, because they are SO BUSY talking amongst themselves. They simply forget to listen to us! But to brush us aside...? To PUNISH us for speaking out? That is WRONG.

The Public has said REPEATEDLY, they DO NOT LIKE THIS BIAS, and THEREFORE, DON'T TRUST THEIR MODS. I am NOT the ONLY one who has expressed this feeling... I'm just one of a few, who HASN'T LET GO OF THIS PARTICULAR SWAMA-ISSUE, until it gets FIXED.

I had to step down, in order to HONESTLY protect people who share MY Spiritual beliefs... and in doing so, have been treated with the same UNJUST bias.

We're dealing with MY SPIRITUALITY. I hold NOTHING nearer and dearer to my heart. I'd like the same freedom as EVERYBODY ELSE, to practice and express my SPIRITUAL beliefs, here at The Shroomery. WITHOUT fear of STAFF bias, prejudice, or persecution.

I'd also, once this issue is FIXED, like my job back.

I'd have had NO REASON to cross any lines, if MY SPIRITUALITY was not under attack by an ADMITTEDLY BIASED Staff.


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Fiddlesticks.


Edited by Rose (11/02/05 12:12 AM)

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: geokills]
    #4882380 -

geokills said:
Now I am gettin' the message that you're probably tired of hearing from me, but the fact is that I'm here now and I do have a pretty good understanding of how management here works.


I am not tired of hearing from you. I am tired of being called a DRAMA QUEEN, by you, as you seemingly set ME up for an unjust ban.

geokills said:
I don't know where you're getting all these admissions of guilt, bias, and non-rule breaking.. at least I can speak for myself when I relate that you have misconstrued statements of mine as absolute when I have made clear use of an 'IF' qualifier.


I have taken comments made in public, by you, Maia, Shroomism and Wiccan and committed them to memory.

I have not lied yet. I can DRAG UP THE QUOTES, but I feel that would tarnish the Staff MORE than I would like to, and also, CONFIRM YOUR ACCUSATIONS of me being a DRAMA WHORE.

Ask me again, and I will present the evidence... but really, you can trust me, and save some face. Just concede the point, like Seuss did.

I too, know how management here works. Admins like to keep their togas WHITE, while their Mods take the dirt. Bullshit travels up... etc...

geokills said:
At any rate, forum rules are not the say-all end-all, we also have site wide rules on Harassment/Respect/Drama Queens/Hate Magnets, not to mention the all inclusive "we do reserve the right to ban anyone for any reason" statement included in our new user agreement / AR&G.


I addressed this a bit in my PREVIOUS POST.

You, Maia, Wiccan... etc... BY CALLING Paradigm, Swami and ME Drama Queens, are ENTRAPPING US.

That you have FALLEN BACK to your BE-ALL-AND-END-ALL LOOPHOLE, is TELLING, geo.

You OBVIOUSLY have NOTHING, or you wouldn't be playing the, "We can ban whoever we want to!" card. That is your NUCLEAR OPTION, and YOU KNOW IT.

IF ONLY ONE PERSON WERE EFFECTED geo, you'd have a case.

But, THE PUBLIC is AGAINST YOU on this. And Swami, Paradigm, me and others are the victims.

So, STOP CALLING US FUCKING DRAMA QUEENS, or at least, STOP INSINUATING IT.

LOOK AT HOW THE PUBLIC REACTED TO YTHAN'S POST!

geokills said: Consequently, if someone seems to be demonstrating more of what one might consider negative or deconstructive behavior in a specific forum, regardless of those forum rules, a moderator may choose to remove access to only that forum, since seemingly the user may be able to control him or herself on the rest of the board. This is usually implemented when we receive direct and continued user complaints regarding a specific user.


OR this could confirm PUBLIC BELIEF that the THREE MODS ARE BIASED. ESPECIALLY, since they have ALL ADMITTED IT PUBLICLY!

Quote:
geokills said:
More concerning to me, is why you insist on fighting someone else's battle for them?.. and why you continue to insinuate that we have some hidden agenda against certain users. Well here's some news, it's not hidden - for those who paid attention to my prior postings on this subject (and not just specific quotes taken out of context), you would know that certain users have been banned (or failed to have their ban lifted) because of their actions after the initial ban. Say you were unjustly arrested for breaking and entering on your friend's property while they were out of town. Well even if you are innocent, you need to play by the rules of the system, and of course if you start yelling and screaming about your innocence and trying to get away, you will probably end up in solitary confinement with a hefty dose of tranquilizers until your arraignment. Similarly, users here may have been banned for questionable reason - yet instead of calmly presenting their case they flip out and sometimes encourage other people to vocalize on their behalf, or worse yet employ puppet accounts to fight their cause. In turn, this lack of tact and respect for the staff is obviously going to play a factor in how the person is subsequently treated.


There you go again, accusing me of being a drama whore.

Notice how you suggest defending the INNOCENT is a BAD and CONFOUNDING thing. You WONDER WHY I DO IT? Don't you tell YOURSELF, EVERY DAY, you are an ADMIN, because you get to HELP PEOPLE?

When YOU HELP PEOPLE, it makes sense... but when I do... ?

A drama whore would use THIS sentence to say what he REALLY feels about such tactics.

Why do I defend Swami? Because...
Cervantes said:
I still DON'T KNOW WHAT I CAN DO, other than LIE or GO AWAY, to avoid such bias, myself... at least until this issue is FIXED.


Why do I defend Swami? Because he is innocent. I am a DEVIL'S ADVOCATE. I SHARE HIS SPIRITUAL BELIEFS. I can't MODERATE while this issue exists. Most of all, I defend him because he was BANNED UNJUSTLY, and CAN'T DEFEND HIMSELF... WHILE BANNED!

If I were JEWISH, and you banned someone for their JEWISH beliefs... wouldn't you UNDERSTAND WHY I crossed the line, spoke up, and ULTIMATELY STEPPED DOWN, so I could DEFEND MY FAITH!?

Well fuck geo, I'm not JEWISH, but I am Spiritual. And I will DEFEND MY FAITH FROM BIAS, at the COST OF MY MODSHIP because YOU MAY AS WELL BE MISTREATING ME. I see NO difference between SWAMI'S posting style, and MINE. Except, I tend to prattle...

geokills said:
It has been said time and time again that if a specific user (be it you, Swami, Paradigm, or anyone else) wants to petition for readmission to a given forum, or a reconsideration on any ban, they ought to present their case directly to the administration with their specific reasoning for such a request. I am not opposed to hearing people out and considering their gripe - for crying out loud I do it on a near-daily basis - but this matter has been blown so far out of proportion and is convoluted with so much variance in opinion over the countless threads that have surfaced, that it is no surprise to me we are not getting anywhere. Mind you, continuing this public spectacle won't help any.. I know that Y hates having to sift through this mess, and if I weren't already neck-deep in it I'd more easily keep my mouth shut too; just remember that when you petition a ban, you can request to have a full administrative review in which the administrative recipient will post your complaint to the rest of the admins for their commentary. Oftentimes, about half of the admins stay out of these inquiries anyway since they are not actively involved on the BB at the given time.. and on occasion the moderators are also solicited for their opinion, but damn sack o hooeybouey gratuity with an anchovy on top, sometimes people must agree to disagree.



I will NOT agree to disagree.

That would mean I AGREE TO RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION!

FUCK THAT!

I was in PM correspondence with YOU until you TOLD ME OFF. So, don't tell me to send a support ticket. Like it would help at this point, or be weighed ANY differently than our REGULAR PM conversations, geo. It is a BULLSHIT suggestion geo, and you know it.

We are in the proper thread. We are on topic. We can talk here.

The only reason you DON'T want this PUBLIC discussion, is so you can ENTRAP us for QUESTIONING YOUR BIAS... as we continue to discuss it, despite your repeated warnings.

Pick 4 or 5 points I have made in this post, and tell me you agree.

It would be a step in the right direction.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


Edited by Rose (11/02/05 03:40 AM)

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Rose]
    #4882688 -

Cervantes can you say in concise steps exactly what you think at this point would resolve the issue? If you have a problem with a specific mod then name them. Always grouping the three mods of the new forum together does them all a disservice by not giving them individual advice.

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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Rose]
    #4882742 -

So I just have to jump in here. I can be devil's advocate too..

Some victim Swami is :rolleyes:

You ARE being a drama queen

You speak of religous persecution.. what is Swami's goal?

Have you spoken with the tens of people (That I KNOW of) who have LEFT S&P and the Shroomery COMPLETELY because of his "direct style of questioning beliefs"? Did you know them?

IF ONLY ONE PERSON WERE EFFECTED geo, you'd have a case.

But, THE PUBLIC is AGAINST YOU on this. And Swami, Paradigm, me and others are the victims.

Yeah.. that's because the people who were effected LEFT THE FUCKING SHROOMERY. For good. Because they couldn't handle the RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION. Sound familiar? You skew the perception that it is you, Swami, and Paradigm who are the victims.. when that is only the result of all of Swami's 'hard work' over the years. He has loyal lapdogs to fight his battles for him, he's the center of all the drama, and he has about 50 others to emulate his posting style... you KNOW he's loving it. He made his bed, and now you want to lay in it.

DIGITAL MARTYRS.

You defend your faith against bias eh? Well unless your faith DOESN'T happen to be the Swami Faith, you wouldn't exactly know what it's like to have your faith PERSECUTED and ATTACKED repeatedly. DEFENDING the INNOCENT? That's what I do. I stand up to guys like Swami who like to bully little seekers of the truth around.. coming down on them with an air of moral superiority. Granted.. I don't have nearly the debating, language manipulation, and charismatic skills, but I work with what I have.

Basically what I'm seeing from you is this: You completely defending Swami,. painting him as the most innocent victim of a tyrannical administration and biased moderation. Perhaps some of that was true in the past, but not the Swami being an innocent victim part. This is my perspective: He has TROLLED S&P for years. He has DRIVEN people AWAY from the SHROOMERY with his BRUTAL ATTACKS on BELIEF SYSTEMS. Yeah, and somewhere in between he's a genuine nice guy. And most certainly a master at drawing emotions out of people so he can do as he pleases with them.

You speak like Swami is a saint. Maybe he is in disguise. But you really don't know the full history. S&P used to be dominated by 'believers'. Only now, that Swami's wishes have come true, with the skeptics dominating what was once S&P, and that we have the "koombayah" forum they have been asking for for years, you guys have more to bitch about then ever. How ironic. When it was the so-called skeptics who begged for an alternate forum for the 'pussy' spiritual posters in the first place. So they just can't resist going in their and tearing shit up either.

I remember when S&P was about simply sharing beliefs and experiences and there wasn't any drama like this. DO you?

Now there's more checks and balances than EVER to ensure unbiased moderation. And we are not DWELLING in the PAST.. mistakes were made on BOTH SIDES. CLEAN SLATES have been given, and we are trying to start again from zero point. Is this even possible?


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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Shroomism]
    #4882749 -

As far as I have seen, the only people who have taken offense to my posts are the mods. If anyone else has been offended, let them speak now. This has gotten bigger than just Swami. This is about being free to express one's beliefs. Are my beliefs inferior to yours? Are they not protected by the same forum rules that yours are? Please address this. I would love to get answer on this once and for all.


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Re: Declaration of Intention [Re: Silversoul]
    #4882761 -

This has gotten bigger than just Swami.

Much bigger.

This is about being free to express one's beliefs.

Absolutely. 500%

Are my beliefs inferior to yours?

Never.

Are they not protected by the same forum rules that yours are? Please address this. I would love to get answer on this once and for all.

Yes they are protected. Well, ideally anyway. What I think you are referring to.. is the thread of yours that someone dumped because they thought you were mocking someone? Moderation is subjective at best, we are not always omnipotent :smirk:, so if mistakes were made.. sorry.. and we'll try to do better in the future. Myself, I go for the... anything goes except for blatant flames/trolling etc approach. But what was requested was a forum where people could freely express their beliefs and be free from "skeptical persuasions of the assholish kind" so to speak..  in order for that to even be possible, there needs to be rules, ways to identify that. In the initial opening the the RM&P forum, there was several waves of dissenters who did their best to fill the forum with SHIT. They had to be sifted out. If you got caught up in that whirlpool of madness.. I'm sorry, and if you're saying you were unfairly warned in your attempt to make a genuine post.. let's take that up with the admins directly to expunge that from the.. shall we say... new permanent records.


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