luvdemshrooms said:

Geo, I've seen you write many things, public and some private. Your posts in this thread are truly disappointing to me.

Attitudes and reasoning like this are why my participation at this site has dropped to almost nothing.

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Quote:

I'm not going to be able to effectively address all concerns. But if you feel there is something that requires administrative attention, you have a responsibility to clearly present your case to an admin (including specific links to relevant threads) so that we can review the incident and take action where deemed appropriate. The vague statements and continual digression towards previously banned users is what has halted my participation in this thread.

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Quote:

geokills said:

10/24/05

Swami has been banned from the WA&F forum for a period of one-week while we take the time to fine tune and implement further changes on the current S&P dual forum makeup.

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Geo, thank you for your post. I'm gonna' go over a FEW points, but overall, I appreciate your new comments... a LOT.

geokills said:

> Also, in order to discuss BIAS, previous bans MUST be mentioned...

So far as I'm concerned, the first Swami bans have indeed been a little sketchy; but his subsequent public actions after these bans were in place has been out of line because he failed to heed direct advice from staff members (even if he thought the advice was bogus).  I know we can learn a lot from the past, but the entire Swami issue has become so incredibly intertwined with conflicting stories from so many sides that I have decided to simply let it be, am not taking it into account during the CURRENT discussion about MR&P, and won't address any of the past history associated with it because of all the confusion. 

Obviously something fucked up at one point (or many points) along the line, but it's done and I'm not going to go digging through literally hundreds of posts strewn across many tens of threads, as well as the necessary personal inquiry that would be required of many involved persons.. because at this point it just isn't feasible and certainly not practical.  Human memory is prone to errors and since the whole issue is so convoluted, I've given up on it and am concentrating on keeping communication flowing for present and future management.  So save us both time, and let this one go because you won't be hearing anymore from me about it, and I believe that the silence from the rest of the admins on the issue speaks for itself.

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May as well get it out of the way...

So, you're saying, that since there are different opinions about Swami's ban, you are going to let it be... ALTHOUGH you concede his bans that started Swami's PARANOIA were indeed bullshit?

Better... you have come a long way geo. Thanks for admitting you guys fucked up, SPECIFICALLY ON Swami's bans. Thank you for broadening this conversation, so I am not CORNERED by simply saying so.

However, this is NO reason to STOP looking at the issue geo. This is THE REASON to FIX the issue.

Why?

Because you answered this question yourself. YOU FUCKED UP. YOU STARTED IT. Say sorry, lift the bans, as soon as you can. Promise not to do it again. FIXED.

You're ALMOST there.

The alternative is nothing but mean, and biased.

Remember the night this ALL broke out geo, we were talking about the promotional tri-fold and you said something like, "I will talk about it more, but I have to attend to the Swami drama."? I THOUGHT I had YOUR BACK when I went out there and helped. I think you felt the SAME WAY.

I put my foot in the door, and have FORCED you to address this issue PUBLICLY... and it HAS been ugly (which NEITHER OF US WANTED)... but I STILL did what I feel I had to do.

WHY?

Because BIAS DIVIDES THE SHROOMERY... THE STAFF... THE ADMINISTRATION. It has been THE BIGGEST STAFF PROBLEM since I signed on. You know it. I know it. The STAFF knows it. The S&P community certainly knows it.

Ythan's post. The FIRST post of THIS THREAD says everything I am saying here. Keep THAT in mind while you REFUSE to hear about SWAMI, and his UNJUST BAN.

It must be FIXED. It must be! It is SO simple. It is the POSITIVE choice. It STOPS this YEAR LONG CYCLE OF DRAMA.

I'm a regular Shroomerite citizen, BECAUSE I feel fixing this issue NOW, despite the DIRT and HURT FEELINGS, is MORE IMPORTANT than almost ANY OTHER ISSUE YOU CAN FIX TODAY. It has certainly been one of the biggest pains in your ass AND mine, this last year. See why I want it FIXED? LOOK AT WHAT HAPPENS TO THIS PLACE WHEN SWAMI IS BANNED UNJUSTLY!

Isn't HISTORY teacher enough? Isn't history tellin' y'all to STOP, and FIX IT? Perhaps history's only talking to me nowadays... but I think you know what I'm saying here.

This FIX begins and ENDS with the lifting of Swami's bans... because SWAMI IS THE ONLY SHROOMERITE WHO DOESN'T BREAK RULES, TO GET BANNED! He is the ONLY STAIN on your otherwise clean gown.

It really concerns me that you WILL HEAR NONE OF IT. Especially when you admit you started it. How on Earth can a BAN be better than an APOLOGY? Christ, man, this is The Shroomery!

I will not take silence for an answer, although I will gladly move this particular conversation to PM.

And it won't be dirty from my end.

geokills said:

> If you PROMISE not to get UPSET, I WILL present SPECIFIC evidence...

As stated, PM me this information so that we won't have two or ten other members jumping in to offer their own personal analysis of the situation.  Whether or not you've met a perceived "PRIVATE dead end", there is a chain of command so that decisions may be made and implemented efficiently.  Particularly when it comes to disciplinary action, holding these matters in public debate just draws things out and makes it much more difficult to come to any kind of consensus since many users have loyal friends (and enemies) who will get involved and confuse the entire matter. 

Additionally, if the issue is more than 3 days old, forget about it - because indeed I have read what you and others have had to say, I have tried to keep an eye on the forum in my spare time, and I have since given personal direction to the MR&P moderators in hopes that from here on out we won't have so much of the drama that has plagued the new forum since its beginning a couple weeks ago.  In other words, if you are only planning on repeating what you have stated, don't bother - but if you have perceived continuing bias since last Friday, by all means send me (or any/all admins) the relevant links and personal explanation.  Not all the admins read WA&F all the time, so if you are so concerned about them all seeing your statements, send the PM to all of us, or simply ask one of us to post a copy in the admin forum for other admins to review. 

As for Swami's WA&F ban - and as some members who have asked about their respective bans are already aware - we do not currently have the technical ability to remove forum-specific bans due to the software renovations Ythan is making to our banning system.  When the functionality to remove forum-specific bans is back in place, I will gladly unban Swami (as well as a few other users from the Pub).  I have been fully aware of the delay and even made mention of this to the other administrators on October 31st when his ban was supposed to be lifted. 

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THIS is the part of your post I liked most.

Thanks for letting me off the hook. I did NOT want to post THAT in here. I WILL start a PM correspondence with you as LONG as you promise your WALL is still DOWN in private, for a BIT, at least... since you must admit, this DRAMA could still use a BIT of cleaning up.

Your explanation of Swami's delayed release makes perfect sense. I'll quit my bitchin'. I HOPE MR&P considers the SAME approach.

I'll wait a bit, and see what they decide before making ANY FURTHER stink.

I HAVE noticed a change in tone in the new forum, and I must say, I LIKE it.

Thank you for admitting the change in Moderation approach, and thank you for SAYING something to your Mods about this. I am MUCH less paranoid about posting in there... although I still think the public should choose a Mod too. Still a bit one sided in there, Moderator wise. Skeptics understand the need for that forum, AND they understand its rules. It is THEIR forum too.

It is SLOW in there now, but like The Pub, in time, I think it will be SOMETHING SPECIAL.

So, unless Ythan unveils the new banning gizmo tomorrow, I'm gonna' take a couple of days OFF from this issue, and send you a PM after we BOTH have had a break, but while it is still fresh on our minds. I'll send you a PM, and HOPEFULLY chat with you on IRC, in a few days.

MOST OF ALL, thank you geo, for treating me like I'm the SAME guy I ALWAYS have been. That change in tone, means MORE to me than words can say. Perhaps there is an emoticon to express how THIS feels to me, but I haven't seen it.

Thanks again, for compromising so generously. The problem STILL exists, but I MUCH prefer the Stage you have set for future discussion.

Cervantes said:

Frankly luvdem, it is when I pissed you off, last year, that I changed my mind about BOGUS bans.

After quite a bit of thought, I did NOT like making YOU, a VETERAN, feel unwelcome here... for speaking your mind.

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luvdemshrooms said:

Cervantes said:

Frankly luvdem, it is when I pissed you off, last year, that I changed my mind about BOGUS bans.

After quite a bit of thought, I did NOT like making YOU, a VETERAN, feel unwelcome here... for speaking your mind.

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Those bans were as bogus as they come, which is why although I agree with your statements in this thread.... I also relish the irony.

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As do I, I couldn't help but mention it.

Of course, you DID flame me... AFTER the first ban.

REAL IRONY, would be if BOTH of us got permabanned over this thread.