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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
Re: Is Iraq a step back for women? [Re: Unagipie]
    #4643594 - 09/10/05 08:27 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

My point (and presumably Alex213's) was that just because we believe all women should want to be treated in the same way Western women are treated, it is not necessarily so.




Phred


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OfflineUnagipie
Pilgrim -DBK鰻

Registered: 08/11/05
Posts: 6,300
Loc: The Trenches of France
Last seen: 18 years, 3 months
Re: Is Iraq a step back for women? [Re: Phred]
    #4643623 - 09/10/05 08:38 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

I agree with that. Many women in the Middle East consider the Burqa to be true liberation, not the bikini


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Don't fight it. Just let the illuminados take over your mind. You be at bliss soon.

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InvisibleAlex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: Is Iraq a step back for women? [Re: Unagipie]
    #4644535 - 09/11/05 12:53 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Then again there's a lot of people in rural America who believe some funny things too. That doesn't mean we should enforce their beliefs.

The problem now is with the shia clerics wielding so much power in the south and infiltrating the police force, women arn't going to have any choice in the matter.

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OfflineUnagipie
Pilgrim -DBK鰻

Registered: 08/11/05
Posts: 6,300
Loc: The Trenches of France
Last seen: 18 years, 3 months
Re: Is Iraq a step back for women? [Re: Alex213]
    #4644557 - 09/11/05 12:58 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Well, you have a point. Half the reason there is an insurgency is because Sunnis are scared shitless of Shias ruling the country. If Iraq was (like 95% majority) a completely Shi'ite, or completely Sunni, I doubt there would be such a fierce insurgency. I doubt insurgents are that hard boiled over the topple of Saddam. They seem to be fighting the occupation because they see it as enabling a Shia rule over Sunnis


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Don't fight it. Just let the illuminados take over your mind. You be at bliss soon.

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OfflineProsgeopax
Jaded, yethopeful?

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1,258
Loc: Appearing at a mall near ...
Last seen: 18 years, 3 months
Re: Is Iraq a step back for women? [Re: Alex213]
    #4645110 - 09/11/05 08:03 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Don't you like democracy?


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Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.

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InvisibleAlex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: Is Iraq a step back for women? [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4645662 - 09/11/05 11:09 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Yes.

I'm not sure how Shia fundamentalists infiltrating the police force and killing anyone who opposes them squares with democracy tho.

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OfflineProsgeopax
Jaded, yethopeful?

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1,258
Loc: Appearing at a mall near ...
Last seen: 18 years, 3 months
Re: Is Iraq a step back for women? [Re: Alex213]
    #4645741 - 09/11/05 11:30 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

So you would support a democracy even if it led to a theocratic Islamic state which suppresses women's rights by your standards?


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Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.

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OfflineLearyfanS
It's the psychedelic movement!
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 34,184
Loc: High pride!
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Re: Is Iraq a step back for women? [Re: Phred]
    #4646030 - 09/11/05 12:54 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
My point (and presumably Alex213's) was that just because we believe all women should want to be treated in the same way Western women are treated, it is not necessarily so.




Phred




Yes, but that's not really the point. My point is that women in Iraq will probably have less rights under the new regime than under Saddam's.









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Mp3 of the month:  Sons Of Adam - Feathered Fish


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OfflineRedstorm
Prince of Bugs
Male

Folding@home Statistics
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Re: Is Iraq a step back for women? [Re: Learyfan]
    #4646062 - 09/11/05 01:03 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Your speculation rests on the unlikely event that this government will end up as one like Iran's or Saudi Arabia's. I have a feeling Iraq will be more progressive (relatively, of course).

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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Is Iraq a step back for women? [Re: Redstorm]
    #4646075 - 09/11/05 01:08 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
Your speculation rests on the unlikely event that this government will end up as one like Iran's or Saudi Arabia's. I have a feeling Iraq will be more progressive (relatively, of course).



I don't think you have to assume a worst-case scenario like that to imagine that it might be a step back for women.


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InvisibleKingOftheThing
the cool fool
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Registered: 11/17/02
Posts: 27,397
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Re: Is Iraq a step back for women? [Re: Learyfan]
    #4646096 - 09/11/05 01:16 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

dude leary they are all right about iraq becomming progressive. i just heard that instead of everyday, you're only going to be able to shatter your wife's shins with the butt of an ak47 on the first tuesday of every month. also you can only shove her face in piles of camel shit between the hours of 11am - 5pm, monday through friday.

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OfflineLearyfanS
It's the psychedelic movement!
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Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 34,184
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Re: Is Iraq a step back for women? [Re: KingOftheThing]
    #4646111 - 09/11/05 01:23 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

:yesnod:






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Mp3 of the month:  Sons Of Adam - Feathered Fish


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: Is Iraq a step back for women? [Re: Learyfan]
    #4646146 - 09/11/05 01:35 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

link please


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Is Iraq a step back for women? [Re: Unagipie]
    #4646558 - 09/11/05 03:19 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

I agree with that. Many women in the Middle East consider the Burqa to be true liberation, not the bikini

Can't we compromise? How about the burqini?


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The proof is in the pudding.

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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
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Re: Is Iraq a step back for women? [Re: Learyfan]
    #4646701 - 09/11/05 04:15 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Learyfan writes:

Quote:

My point is that women in Iraq will probably have less rights under the new regime than under Saddam's.




And as I pointed out already, you haven't a scintilla of evidence to support that assertion. None. Zip. Zero. Nada. Bupkes. It's just the standard Learyfan kneejerk reflexive parroting of "progressive" Saddam apologist talking points typed into a post on The Shroomery accompanied by the standard Learyfan clever Bush-bashing cartoon/image.

To repeat -- no, a theocracy will not soon be ruling Iraq. No, the leaders in Iraq will not treat women as they are treated in Saudi Arabia and Iran.

Can you not read? How many women in Saudi Arabia and Iran hold government positions? What percentage of the SA and Iranian parliament members are women? Hell, how many women in SA can even vote? Hint -- the correct answer is a number less than one.

I remember in the weeks before the January election in Iraq Swami was scoffing about how it wasn't a real election in Iraq, because the voters didn't get to vote for individuals, but instead for parties (or slates, or lists, or blocks -- whichever term you prefer) who would then send X number of legislators to the national assembly depending on the number of votes they received. It never occurred to Swami that it must be done this way as this is the only way to meet the constitutional requirement that 25% of the assembly be women.

I'm guessing you've never bothered to click on any of the links provided in various posts in this forum to the translated text of the proposed constitution for Iraq. You might want to do that sometime.


And of course, a woman in Iraq under Saddam's regime had rights only till the moment Saddam or his thugs decided it would be more fun to rape and/or kill her, at which point she had no rights whatsoever.



Phred


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OfflineLearyfanS
It's the psychedelic movement!
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Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 34,184
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Re: Is Iraq a step back for women? [Re: Phred]
    #4647569 - 09/11/05 07:44 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

I hope you're right, Phred. We shall soon see.







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Mp3 of the month:  Sons Of Adam - Feathered Fish


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Invisible1stimer
Religion=Rape
Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 1,280
Loc: Amerika
Re: Is Iraq a step back for women? [Re: Swami]
    #4648361 - 09/11/05 10:41 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Whats a burqini look like?


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ash dingy donker mo gollyhopper patty popiton rockstop bueno mayo riggedy jig bobber johnathan pattywhacker gogboob t-shirt monkey.

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InvisibleAlex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: Is Iraq a step back for women? [Re: Learyfan]
    #4654595 - 09/13/05 11:23 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

My point is that women in Iraq will probably have less rights under the new regime than under Saddam's.


They've already lost their rights in the south of Iraq where Shia militia control the police force. I can't see that changing regardless of what some alleged "government" says in Baghdad. Would Baghdad really risk confronting the powerful Shia clerics in the south over "womens rights"?

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