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Re: Is Iraq a step back for women? [Re: Alex213]
    #4638709 -

Alex213 said:
It will be a step back into the stone age for women. I would recomend any free marketeers on the board start up a bee-keeping suit factory. There's a whole new market opening up. Keep your eye on the main chance..


"Back into the stone age"? When did any Islamic country, save Afghanistan, leave the stone age?


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"Men trained in arms from their infancy, and animated by the love of liberty, will afford neither a cheap or easy conquest."
From the Declaration of the Continental Congress

"We can have peace and security only as long as we band together to preserve that most priceless possession, our inheritance of European blood."
Charles A. Lindbergh,"Aviation, Geography, and Race", Reader's Digest, Nov. 1939

"We must secure the existance of our people and a future for White children."
David Lane

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Re: Is Iraq a step back for women? [Re: MagicalMystery]
    #4638718 -

MagicalMystery said:
Alex213 said:
It will be a step back into the stone age for women. I would recomend any free marketeers on the board start up a bee-keeping suit factory. There's a whole new market opening up. Keep your eye on the main chance..


"Back into the stone age"? When did any Islamic country, save Afghanistan, leave the stone age?


During the Islamic Rennaissance, which occured while Europe was still in the Dark Ages.


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Re: Is Iraq a step back for women? [Re: Unagipie]
    #4638796 -

So it's ok to drag them kicking and screaming into the war on terror (iraq had nothing to do with terrorists now there full of them). It's ok to drag them into complete govt overhaul. But it's NOT ok to drag them into the modern world of womens rights?

Just trying to get this straight, bombing a population into submission from the skies to change their govt = ok.

Allowing women to pursue the place of their own choosing in society = not ok.


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Think for yourself. Question authority.

Forgiveness is the ultimate sacrifice.

You can fool some people sometimes, but you can't fool all the people all the time.

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Re: Is Iraq a step back for women? [Re: Sycronica]
    #4638809 -

Saddam was a ruthless dictator and had to go regardless. A free Iraq qill be better for the future.


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Don't fight it. Just let the illuminados take over your mind. You be at bliss soon.

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Re: Is Iraq a step back for women? [Re: Silversoul]
    #4638836 -

Paradigm said:
MagicalMystery said:
Alex213 said:
It will be a step back into the stone age for women. I would recomend any free marketeers on the board start up a bee-keeping suit factory. There's a whole new market opening up. Keep your eye on the main chance..


"Back into the stone age"? When did any Islamic country, save Afghanistan, leave the stone age?


During the Islamic Rennaissance, which occured while Europe was still in the Dark Ages.


You forgot to note how they fell back to barely above stone age after their empire crumbled.

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Re: Is Iraq a step back for women? [Re: Unagipie]
    #4638845 -

Back to lock-step marching I see.


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Think for yourself. Question authority.

Forgiveness is the ultimate sacrifice.

You can fool some people sometimes, but you can't fool all the people all the time.

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Re: Is Iraq a step back for women? [Re: Redstorm]
    #4638890 -

Redstorm said:
Paradigm said:
MagicalMystery said:
Alex213 said:
It will be a step back into the stone age for women. I would recomend any free marketeers on the board start up a bee-keeping suit factory. There's a whole new market opening up. Keep your eye on the main chance..


"Back into the stone age"? When did any Islamic country, save Afghanistan, leave the stone age?


During the Islamic Rennaissance, which occured while Europe was still in the Dark Ages.


You forgot to note how they fell back to barely above stone age after their empire crumbled.


Ya, after World War I. That's a pretty long life for an empire.


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Re: Is Iraq a step back for women? [Re: Learyfan]
    #4638936 -

By liberating Iraq we have given women the chance to take whatever place they choose among society. If they allow their male counterparts to win and institute laws that prohibit their activity it is their own fault.


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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."

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Re: Is Iraq a step back for women? [Re: Silversoul]
    #4639174 -

Who do you believe, Paradigm? Do you believe Phred or Alex?








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Mp3 of the month: Wild Things- Another Colored Ink Drawing (A.C.I.D.)


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Re: Is Iraq a step back for women? [Re: Learyfan]
    #4639323 -

Learyfan said:
Who do you believe, Paradigm? Do you believe Phred or Alex?


I think the truth lies somewhere in between their views. I think Alex is being characteristically over-the-top in his prediction about Iraq going back to the Stone Age. However, I am not quite as confident as Phred about the prospects for women's rights under the new Iraqi government. I think there's a significant possibility that women's rights will be slightly worse than they were under Saddam, though I doubt it will be as bad as Alex portrays it.


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Re: Is Iraq a step back for women? [Re: Silversoul]
    #4639385 -

Ok, I was just curious. You're a pretty clear thinking guy most of the time.






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Mp3 of the month: Wild Things- Another Colored Ink Drawing (A.C.I.D.)


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Re: Is Iraq a step back for women? [Re: Learyfan]
    #4640571 -

Pearls before swine.

Edited by Divided_Sky (09/10/05 02:08 AM)

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Re: Is Iraq a step back for women? [Re: Learyfan]
    #4640954 -

We could be being a little simplistic in thinking all Iraqi women are against Sharia law. Women in poor, rural areas are often keen on it because it means men can have multiple wives which they are obliged to provide for.

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Re: Is Iraq a step back for women? [Re: Alex213]
    #4641366 -

Alex213 is right about this. It is not a given that all Muslim women resent the strictures placed on them.

I can't remember if it was this forum or one of the other sites I frequent that linked to an article describing teenage girls in some African country or other lining up for genital mutilation. These girls were EAGER to have it done to them -- it proved they were women now rather than girls and it made them eligible to marry a "proper" man.

Be that as it may, despite Learyfan's casual and totally ungrounded assumption in his opening post, neither the interim constitution under which Iraq operates now nor the draft constitution which will be voted on October 19 establishes a theocracy in Iraq.



Phred


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Re: Is Iraq a step back for women? [Re: Unagipie]
    #4642863 -

Unagipie said:
The fact of the matter is, Saddam did things contrary to what Iraqis wanted. Saddam Hussein allowing his citizens, male or female to freely persue the taboos of the Muslim world - premarital sex and booze, doesn't mean change the fact that he was a political dictator; and a ruthless one at that with no tolerance for dissidency.


TIt is too bad that you think that the only freedoms enjoyed by woman under Saddam, the most progressive in the Muslim world, had to do with sex and drinking. :blush:    I was thinking more along the lines of education and the oppurtunity to persue a carrer.

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Re: Is Iraq a step back for women? [Re: gregorio]
    #4643195 -

gregorio said:
TIt is too bad that you think that the only freedoms enjoyed by woman under Saddam, the most progressive in the Muslim world, had to do with sex and drinking. :blush:    I was thinking more along the lines of education and the oppurtunity to persue a carrer.


Actually, Saddam was pretty progressive for an Arab leader when it came to women.  They were allowed to go to school, drive, and stuff like that.

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Re: Is Iraq a step back for women? [Re: Phred]
    #4643387 -

Phred said:
Alex213 is right about this. It is not a given that all Muslim women resent the strictures placed on them.

I can't remember if it was this forum or one of the other sites I frequent that linked to an article describing teenage girls in some African country or other lining up for genital mutilation. These girls were EAGER to have it done to them -- it proved they were women now rather than girls and it made them eligible to marry a "proper" man.

Be that as it may, despite Learyfan's casual and totally ungrounded assumption in his opening post, neither the interim constitution under which Iraq operates now nor the draft constitution which will be voted on October 19 establishes a theocracy in Iraq.



Phred


What does that have to do with Shariah? There is nothing in Islamic Law about genital mutilation, in fact it's considered a jahilya (Pre-Islamic) practice to Muslims.

On a more realistic note Phred, women in the Muslim world who are fond of Shariah are more inclined to wear a headscarf and pray at the back of the mosque than mutilate their genitals.  :rolleyes:


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Don't fight it. Just let the illuminados take over your mind. You be at bliss soon.

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Re: Is Iraq a step back for women? [Re: gregorio]
    #4643411 -

gregorio said:
Unagipie said:
The fact of the matter is, Saddam did things contrary to what Iraqis wanted. Saddam Hussein allowing his citizens, male or female to freely persue the taboos of the Muslim world - premarital sex and booze, doesn't mean change the fact that he was a political dictator; and a ruthless one at that with no tolerance for dissidency.


TIt is too bad that you think that the only freedoms enjoyed by woman under Saddam, the most progressive in the Muslim world, had to do with sex and drinking. :blush:    I was thinking more along the lines of education and the oppurtunity to persue a carrer.


Women are allowed to learn and work in every Muslim country in the world ATM (Saudi Arabia included). The only exception is Afghanistan, which was partly due to a combination of the Taliban and Afghan cultural norms that developed since 1979 when the country permanently became insecure.


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Don't fight it. Just let the illuminados take over your mind. You be at bliss soon.

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Re: Is Iraq a step back for women? [Re: Unagipie]
    #4643475 -

I have allways heard otherwise. But wasn't Iraq under Saddam considered to be one of the more progressive countries in the Muslim world? That's what I allways read or hear. My gut is telling me that they are taking a step backward.

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Re: Is Iraq a step back for women? [Re: gregorio]
    #4643586 -

gregorio said:
I have allways heard otherwise. But wasn't Iraq under Saddam considered to be one of the more progressive countries in the Muslim world? That's what I allways read or hear. My gut is telling me that they are taking a step backward.


Yes, women were more emancipated in Iraq but this is simply because Saddam was secular, and had no attachments to religious notions of the place of women in society. It's hardly note worthy, given that he would torture and execute any dissidents, regardless if they were men or women. There was relative freedom to persue any lifestyle you wanted in Iraq - as long as you didn't question the government, Saddam's Iraq didn't care if its citizens were having a sinful time.


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Don't fight it. Just let the illuminados take over your mind. You be at bliss soon.

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