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Offlinecb9fl
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Logical reasoning for invading IRAQ
    #2596426 - 04/23/04 11:49 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I understand why the US invaded Afghanistan. But why did the US invade IRAQ?

Was it solely because the US thought Bin Laden was there or was it because they thought Saddam was aiding Bin Laden?



I guess my question is what right did the US stipulate for invading and occupying IRAQ? I understand they didn't have a govt. the US agreed with but that isn't or at least shouldn't be a reason for invasion. Hell China doesn't have a govt. agrees with but the US doesn't invade them.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Logical reasoning for invading IRAQ [Re: cb9fl]
    #2596522 - 04/24/04 12:19 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I wonder what the hell they were thinking too. It doesn't seem to be for the oil really from the amount of money and oil they've gotten out of it compared to the cost of the war. Maybe to set up a good puppet government in the Middle East, but they already have Israel. I doubt it was because of the mythical WMD because even if they did believe it and weren't just talking about out of their ass (doubtful), there are countries that have much more of a threat with their WMDs. And there are people as bad or worse off than the Iraqis, it was not for Iraqi liberation. That's a relatively new excuse the government's using after their WMD excuse fell through.

So what is it? I have no fucking clue. Maybe everyone was on xanax and it seemed like a good idea at the time


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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OfflineAncalagon
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Re: Logical reasoning for invading IRAQ [Re: Ravus]
    #2596567 - 04/24/04 12:32 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Maybe they realize that a functional and prosperous arab democracy dead center in the middle east might be the best way possible to indirectly bring about a culture change in the region, and in the long term end the terrorist threat...they know killing individual terrorists isn't an end to the problem in and of itself. I personally wouldn't bet the bank on that being their reason but thats one sort-of legitimate one for ya.


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?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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InvisibleLucidDream
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Re: Logical reasoning for invading IRAQ [Re: Ravus]
    #2596618 - 04/24/04 12:44 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

One almost hopes it was for the oil, because at least that makes a crazy kind of sense. But then we learn that the oil revenues won't begin to pay for the occupation. If the maladministration came out tomorrow with the notion that the war and occupation is about oil and geopolitical hegemony, they would rightly be booed out of office for the spectacular failure they have created.

We invaded Iraq because Saddam was weak, a natural target, ripe for takedown. There was no other justification, notwithstanding all the rhetoric from Cheney and Wolfowitz about imaginary Iraqis throwing flowers at our troops in gratitude for this newfound gift of "democracy."



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Sarcasm just one of my many talents.



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OfflineJuanMatus
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Re: Logical reasoning for invading IRAQ [Re: cb9fl]
    #2596656 - 04/24/04 12:53 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Ancalagon hit it right on the head as far as the line of thought exercised by the US VP and a few of the higher level Cabinet members in the Whitehouse. as for President Bush Perhaps the death threat Sadam made against Bush Sr. after the last war had something to do with it. When you consider the amount of damage the US has caused in the past in the Middle East, it seems folly to try it again. As I recall Iraq was a prosperous democracy before the US invaded. of cource a democracy doesn't mean one man one vote. Kennedy won the presidency with votes from dead people in Chicago IL, and Bush won the Election with a minority of the popular vote. And let's not forget to mention slavery, seperate but not equal, and no voting rights for women in its past. No government is perfect, but the soverenty of all should be respected. The fact of the matter is that just because a government is less than acceptable to the US is not a reason to invade. The US has supported some very evil governments in the past, because they served the needs of the US government.


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InvisibleJellric
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Re: Logical reasoning for invading IRAQ [Re: cb9fl]
    #2596836 - 04/24/04 01:40 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I think the main reason we went after Saddam was as a punching bag or scapegoat. We couldn't find Osama so we got Saddam. Just like when there is a terrible crime in the neighborhood, but the cops can't find the perpetrator. So they go find a criminal and pin it on him to satisfy the publics need for revenge.


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I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Logical reasoning for invading IRAQ [Re: Jellric]
    #2596915 - 04/24/04 01:59 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

And the truely sad part of all this is despite the lies, the failures, the falsehoods, and all the propaganda...

...Bush STILL has the majority vote!  :shake:

What goes through the minds of the majority of Americans, I don't know


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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OfflinepB0t
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Re: Logical reasoning for invading IRAQ [Re: cb9fl]
    #2596938 - 04/24/04 02:06 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Halliburton, Bechtel and others will make money on contracts to rebuild Iraq, just like they did after the first Gulf War.

Read the November issue of Harpers if you can.


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5-MeOW-DMT

yageman said:
Dumb kids shouldnt even worry about trying salvia.

Dumb adults might want to give it a shot though.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Logical reasoning for invading IRAQ [Re: cb9fl]
    #2596939 - 04/24/04 02:06 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

WMD?

:whoa:


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: Logical reasoning for invading IRAQ [Re: Xlea321]
    #2597889 - 04/24/04 02:04 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I'm sorry nobody so far has brought up any logical ideas. However as I saw it this was the rationale:

1) If Saddam Hussein is building weapons he could use terrorists to attack us through proxy. In order for this possibility to never become reality we have to take him out before it is too late.
2) Iraq was heavily financing terrorists in the middle east and Iraq was providing safe haven for several wanted terrorists including one Al-Qaeda member who is currently blowing up Iraqi school buses.
3) Give the US an excuse to move troops out of Saudi Arabia. Less dependence on foreign oil and muslims will be less pissed off without bases there.
4) Removing Saddam could show Arabs that the US supports justice in the muslime world (it didn't).
5) A democracy in Iraq could lead to a change in the Arab world. With more liberal democratic countries young men would have things to do besides become terrorists. At present stiffling monarchies are breeding grounds for terrorists who have no job or freedoms.
6) Send a message to other rogue countries that building WMD will get your ass kicked, and that genocide and harboring terrorism doesn't ) pay.
7) Show the world, the Arab world in porticular, that Americans aren't a bunch of pansies and we will fight and win the war on terrorism and if you fight against us you'll get your ass kicked.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Logical reasoning for invading IRAQ [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2598200 - 04/24/04 03:34 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Divided_Sky said:
I'm sorry nobody so far has brought up any logical ideas. However as I saw it this was the rationale:

1) If Saddam Hussein is building weapons he could use terrorists to attack us through proxy. In order for this possibility to never become reality we have to take him out before it is too late.
2) Iraq was heavily financing terrorists in the middle east and Iraq was providing safe haven for several wanted terrorists including one Al-Qaeda member who is currently blowing up Iraqi school buses.
3) Give the US an excuse to move troops out of Saudi Arabia. Less dependence on foreign oil and muslims will be less pissed off without bases there.
4) Removing Saddam could show Arabs that the US supports justice in the muslime world (it didn't).
5) A democracy in Iraq could lead to a change in the Arab world. With more liberal democratic countries young men would have things to do besides become terrorists. At present stiffling monarchies are breeding grounds for terrorists who have no job or freedoms.
6) Send a message to other rogue countries that building WMD will get your ass kicked, and that genocide and harboring terrorism doesn't ) pay.
7) Show the world, the Arab world in porticular, that Americans aren't a bunch of pansies and we will fight and win the war on terrorism and if you fight against us you'll get your ass kicked.




Heh, boy did that backfire!  :smile:

Now, the Arabs think we're pansies, liars AND hypocrites! (Not that they didn't before.)

We make false accusations about the WMD against Iraq, yet let the terrorist state Israel slide by with as many as they want.

Let's not be fools, the US doesn't care for democracy. They want a few puppet governments across the world to help them "take care of matters." Now instead of just using the manifest destiny to go from sea to shining sea, it's best that, for the own good of the people, we should control them and tell them what to do.
:nonono:


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: Logical reasoning for invading IRAQ [Re: Ravus]
    #2598352 - 04/24/04 04:31 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Ravus said:


Heh, boy did that backfire!  :smile:

Now, the Arabs think we're pansies, liars AND hypocrites! (Not that they didn't before.)

We make false accusations about the WMD against Iraq, yet let the terrorist state Israel slide by with as many as they want.

Let's not be fools, the US doesn't care for democracy. They want a few puppet governments across the world to help them "take care of matters." Now instead of just using the manifest destiny to go from sea to shining sea, it's best that, for the own good of the people, we should control them and tell them what to do.
:nonono:




I don't think it did backfire. Countries like Libya, and even Iran are starting to get the message about WMDs.

As for your insinuation about the US not wanting democracy that is total speculation. I see absolutely no reason to believe that.

Arabs may still think we are liars and hypocrits (which is nothing new) but I don't think they believe we are pansies anymore. They know we fight back and we mean business. Not like in the Clinton years where they attack us and we retreat or do nothing.

Israel is not a terrorist state. Get your head out of your ass. Terrorisms is deliberately targeting civilians to scare a nation into political change. The facts show that Israel does not deliberately target civilians, and that they have actually offered some very appealing diplomatic solutions which is more than the Palestinians can say.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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OfflineProtester
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Re: Logical reasoning for invading IRAQ [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2598689 - 04/24/04 08:09 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Didnt bush start talking about iraiq at his inuaration speech?


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I work my shitty 9-5 and I pay my taxes, I'm not hurting anybody else. So why do you care what i do in my spare time.


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InvisibleLucidDream
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Re: Logical reasoning for invading IRAQ [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2599764 - 04/25/04 02:39 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Divided_Sky said:
As for your insinuation about the US not wanting democracy that is total speculation. I see absolutely no reason to believe that.




You've got those blinders on tight, don't you?

Quote:

Arabs may still think we are liars and hypocrits (which is nothing new) but I don't think they believe we are pansies anymore. They know we fight back and we mean business. Not like in the Clinton years where they attack us and we retreat or do nothing.




You mean the Clinton years when terrorism was a top priority and terrorist attacks were regularly thwarted but not politicized. If Gee Dubya had stopped the Millenium Attacks, he'd still be running ads about it and his sainthood would be pending. We strike out at has-beens like Saddam because George Dubya Bush is too stupid to capture Osama, who has been walking around free lo, these 1,000 days since 9-11. Dubya cut funding for counterterrorism, ignored the warnings of 9-11, and then conned the country into attacking an "easy target" instead, because he has absolutely no fucking clue how to combat al-Qaeda.

Quote:

Israel is not a terrorist state. Get your head out of your ass. Terrorisms is deliberately targeting civilians to scare a nation into political change.




If that definition doesn't fit Israel, it doesn't fit anyone else:

Border Police are accused of tying Mohammed Badwan, 13, to a jeep as a human shield. (G.M. and The Alternative Information Center)
Activists Say Border Police Used Boy, 13, as Human Shield

You really stretch the limits of irony when you admonish others to pull their heads out of their asses.


--------------------
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InvisibleJellric
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Re: Logical reasoning for invading IRAQ [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2599903 - 04/25/04 03:46 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

However as I saw it this was the rationale:

1) If Saddam Hussein is building weapons he could use terrorists to attack us through proxy. In order for this possibility to never become reality we have to take him out before it is too late.

Has Saddam ever used terrorists to attack us through proxy? To do so would represent suicide.(In spite of those silly scares about the little light wing aircraft flying over the US dropping small chemical packages). As a matter of fact, he never showed ANY interest in attacking us at all until he blundered into Kuwait because he misread signals that we would not step up to defend that country if he attacked. He guessed wrong, and you can bet he hasn't forgotten that. I have not seen any reliable intelligence that he has designs outside his region. He knows he is a regional power and there is only one remaining global superpower. Any preemptive attack on the US would sign his death warrant and wouldn't have remained in power this long if he were a stupid man. We tracked down the 9/11 hijackers fairly quickly, such a large undertaking as attacking us would ensure it was laid at Saddam's doorstep.



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Offlinegrib
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Re: Logical reasoning for invading IRAQ [Re: cb9fl]
    #2601907 - 04/25/04 08:13 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

...beacuse the Iraqi Secret Service tried to kill papa.


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<~>Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake <~>


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OfflineCommunismIsRight
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Re: Logical reasoning for invading IRAQ [Re: grib]
    #5150182 - 01/07/06 12:05 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

With all the conflicts going on in the middle east (Lebanon and syria, Israelis And Palestinians, Iran and its nuclear program, Afghanistan) iraq is the best possible position america could have because of its terrain, its location, and its oil reserves. Anyone who says we shouldnt have invaded iraq is a complete moron, and needs to look a fucking map of the middle east to see why we dont have 130,000 troops in afghanistan.


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Why do we kill people who are killing people to show that killing people is wrong? ~Holly Near

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. ~John Stewart Mill


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Logical reasoning for invading IRAQ [Re: CommunismIsRight]
    #5150203 - 01/07/06 12:17 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Be prepared to take a lot of shit because of your screen name.


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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Logical reasoning for invading IRAQ [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5150483 - 01/07/06 02:10 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

I'm hoping the right-wingers might take the screenname with a little humour?


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InvisibleLos_Pepes
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Re: Logical reasoning for invading IRAQ [Re: Alex213]
    #5150653 - 01/07/06 02:53 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Are there any communist suicide bombers working in the world today? Islam is far more dangerous.


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