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OfflineSquattingMarmot
Inquiring Mind
Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 418
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Revolt in Iraq
    #2526247 - 04/05/04 02:00 AM (13 years, 22 days ago)

It appears that American forces are facing a Shiite uprising. I'd say the proverbial shit has hit the fan.

33 Die, Including 10 GIs, After Shi'ite Call to Revolt

A Young Radical's Anti-U.S. Wrath Is Unleashed

^ This link has more of a background on the moderate Shiite leader, Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani.

:nonono:


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"In the United States anybody can be president. Thats the problem."

"The gray-haired douche bag, Barbara Bush, has a slogan: "Encourage your child to read every day." What she should be is encouraging children to question what they read every day."

- George Carlin


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Revolt in Iraq [Re: SquattingMarmot]
    #2526613 - 04/05/04 05:42 AM (13 years, 22 days ago)

"Mr. Sadr, 31, is the son of a revered Shiite cleric who was assassinated in 1999 by hit men under the rule of Saddam Hussein. He comes from a long line of clerics. A famous uncle was also silenced by Mr. Hussein in 1980.

Mr. Sadr had two older brothers, but they were killed with his father, leaving him the heir apparent."


If those brutalized by Saddam Hussein (non-loyalists) hate the US occupation, what does that tell the West?


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleHanky
wiffle bat.
Male User Gallery
Registered: 08/30/03
Posts: 56,993
Loc: Great Southern Land.
Re: Revolt in Iraq [Re: SquattingMarmot]
    #2526640 - 04/05/04 06:45 AM (13 years, 22 days ago)

it tells the west that the popular line "we are liberating iraq from the tyrant hussien" is generally seen as a crock of shit by those who have supposedly been "liberated".
the whole idea that the people of an illegaly occupied soverign nation should be "joyful and elated" at the presence of an agressive foreign army flies in the face of reality.


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Coaster is an idiot...
[quote]Coaster said:
but i thnk everything thats pure is white?
[/quote]




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OfflineEchoVortex
(hard) member
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 859
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
Re: Revolt in Iraq [Re: Hanky]
    #2527147 - 04/05/04 12:30 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

the whole idea that the people of an illegaly occupied soverign nation should be "joyful and elated" at the presence of an agressive foreign army flies in the face of reality.

Interestingly enough, many of the same people who are stockpiling small arms in order to be able to go to war with their own government at a moment's notice are the same ones who who think that Iraqis should be happy to have the US military occupying their country. Funny how if the US government occupies a foreign country it suddenly becomes "Us" while when it acts in the only nation in which it has any legal mandate to act it is thought of as "Them."


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Revolt in Iraq [Re: EchoVortex]
    #2527199 - 04/05/04 12:56 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

Yeah, I've wondering about that too Echo. The same people who advocate US civilians launching guerilla attacks on occupying forces get really upset when the Iraqis do the same thing.


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Anonymous

Re: Revolt in Iraq [Re: EchoVortex]
    #2527216 - 04/05/04 01:06 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

i've got no problem with iraqis fighting against american occupiers. they've got a right to do that, expecially when the occupation has taken to doing such things as shutting down newspapers and banning personal arms.

my regret is that most of these militants represent those calling for an islamic state, which though unfavorable, is probably inevitable in a part of the world where islam is so widespread, given the nature of that religion.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
Errorist
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 22,840
Loc: To the limit!
Last seen: 6 months, 18 days
Re: Revolt in Iraq [Re: EchoVortex]
    #2527231 - 04/05/04 01:13 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

Who would that be? I've never met any of these people.

Did you just make that up?


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OfflineEchoVortex
(hard) member
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 859
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
Re: Revolt in Iraq [Re: ]
    #2527273 - 04/05/04 01:28 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

i've got no problem with iraqis fighting against american occupiers. they've got a right to do that, expecially when the occupation has taken to doing such things as shutting down newspapers and banning personal arms.

That's why I said "many" of the same people, not "all," as I am aware that certain people, such as yourself and Evolving, are more rigorously consistent in the application of your beliefs than others.

Now, try saying what you just said in public on any street in America. Free speech in reality only goes as far as self-censorship in the interest of self-preservation allows it to.

my regret is that most of these militants represent those calling for an islamic state, which though unfavorable, is probably inevitable in a part of the world where islam is so widespread, given the nature of that religion.

There's a bit of folk wisdom that goes "The devil you know is better than the one you don't." Now, folk wisdom is often stubbornly conservative and resistant to new ideas, and quite often wrong, but in this case the quotation might be worth considering because, whatever shape the new Iraq winds up taking, it's probably not going to be rosy fantasy concocted by the planners of the war. After all, they were wrong about everything else.


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OfflineEchoVortex
(hard) member
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 859
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
Re: Revolt in Iraq [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2527279 - 04/05/04 01:31 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:
Who would that be? I've never met any of these people.





Oh, only a goodly proportion of the membership of the NRA, who cite defense against government tyranny as a justification for the right to bear arms but support Bush's Iraq war at the same time.


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OfflineDivided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings

Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 3,171
Loc: The Shining Void
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
Re: Revolt in Iraq [Re: Xlea321]
    #2527458 - 04/05/04 02:25 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

Alex123 said:
Yeah, I've wondering about that too Echo. The same people who advocate US civilians launching guerilla attacks on occupying forces get really upset when the Iraqis do the same thing.




What are you talking about?


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1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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OfflineDivided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings

Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 3,171
Loc: The Shining Void
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
Re: Revolt in Iraq [Re: EchoVortex]
    #2527474 - 04/05/04 02:28 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

EchoVortex said:
Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:
Who would that be? I've never met any of these people.





Oh, only a goodly proportion of the membership of the NRA, who cite defense against government tyranny as a justification for the right to bear arms but support Bush's Iraq war at the same time.




This is ridiculous. The 2nd Amendment has nothing to do with carrying around AK-47s and RPGs, guerilla warfare and terrorism. I guess we should worry about the NRA setting roadside bombs and attacking hotels with mortars. What a weak connection.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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OfflineDivided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings

Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 3,171
Loc: The Shining Void
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
Re: Revolt in Iraq [Re: ]
    #2527491 - 04/05/04 02:33 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

mushmaster said:
i've got no problem with iraqis fighting against american occupiers. they've got a right to do that, expecially when the occupation has taken to doing such things as shutting down newspapers and banning personal arms.

my regret is that most of these militants represent those calling for an islamic state, which though unfavorable, is probably inevitable in a part of the world where islam is so widespread, given the nature of that religion.




Your premise seems to be that Americans are in Iraq just to oppress people so it is ok to kill them and any Iraqi civilians in the process. It seems faulty to base the justification for murder on such a flimsy argument, US troops are attempting to restore order and repair infrastructure so they can LEAVE. It's all right to kill Americans for fixing the electrical grid, or the water supply, or providing medical aide to children injured in the war. Yeah, those are things Iraqis need to resist.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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Anonymous

Re: Revolt in Iraq [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2527702 - 04/05/04 03:19 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

whether they are there as oppressors or liberators matters little. they are an occupying power in a foreign land and they are armed. if some of the people of iraq wish to pressure them to leave, even violently, i think they've got a right to do that. i don't agree with the resistance or their political ambitions, but as long as they confine their attacks to enemy soldiers, i don't think that there is anything directly wrong with that. it's war.


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: Revolt in Iraq [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2527720 - 04/05/04 03:24 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

riiiight. we're just there to FIX things...
the thanks we get
those ungrateful Iraqis


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Anonymous

Re: Revolt in Iraq [Re: infidelGOD]
    #2527763 - 04/05/04 03:35 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

these guys are religious nuts who would much rather have an oppressive theocracy (as called for by islam) than a representative, constitutionally-limited government. while i don't agree with their vision for iraq, i can't say that i totally oppose the use of force to expel a foreign occupier. i dunno. i'm sortof on the fence with this one. i'm interested to see how things go this summer.


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Revolt in Iraq [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2527793 - 04/05/04 03:42 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

This is ridiculous. The 2nd Amendment has nothing to do with carrying around AK-47s and RPGs, guerilla warfare and terrorism. I guess we should worry about the NRA setting roadside bombs and attacking hotels with mortars. What a weak connection.

With being new you've missed the countless threads where NRA supporters have insisted being armed is a good thing because civilians can carry out guerilla warfare on any occupiers.


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Revolt in Iraq [Re: ]
    #2527811 - 04/05/04 03:46 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

than a representative, constitutionally-limited government.

Representative of who? Are we talking guys like Ahmed Chalabi, a US backed convicted embezzler? Who is he representative of except American business interests?


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: Revolt in Iraq [Re: ]
    #2527836 - 04/05/04 03:52 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

yeah they are religious nuts. seems the world is full of them.
but those shiites that are revolting now are also one the oppressed groups we were supposedly there to "liberate" from Saddam, and they had been relatively peaceful up to this point. it would be a huge setback for the occupation to have the shiites turn against them


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Anonymous

Re: Revolt in Iraq [Re: Xlea321]
    #2527857 - 04/05/04 03:55 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

representative of the iraqi people and guaranteeing basic human rights. they aren't fighting merely against chalabi, but any government short of the type called for by islam. they want islam, not freedom or justice.

i doubt that there is anything that can fuck up a society any more that fanatical devotion to a religion such as islam. that part of the world is truly messed up. i am really curious to see how this will pan out.


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Revolt in Iraq [Re: ]
    #2528255 - 04/05/04 05:28 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

representative of the iraqi people and guaranteeing basic human rights.

Looking at this from another angle, would you accept another country invading the US and choosing the government?

they want islam, not freedom or justice.

And the american puppets want "freedom and justice"?

i am really curious to see how this will pan out.

Think it might've been better leaving Saddam in charge after all?


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