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OfflineLearyfan
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Is Iraq a step back for women?
    #4635510 - 09/08/05 10:30 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

A theocracy will soon be ruling Iraq, right? Will the leaders of Iraq not treat women as they're treated in Saudi Arabia, Iran, etc.? I'm sure it wasn't a picnic for them under Saddam, but it's going to really suck under Allah, right?

Also, do you think the US is actually promoting theocracy rather than Democracy in Iraq?

Disgust......









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Mp3 of the month: The Loose Enz - The Black Door



Edited by Learyfan (09/09/05 01:25 AM)


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Offlinegregorio
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Re: Is Iraq a step back for women? [Re: Learyfan]
    #4635709 - 09/08/05 11:20 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

I think we are trying to promote Democracy over there but I have doubts as to wether it will succeed or not. What they end up with over there will more than likely be closer to a Theocracy. Females will be worse off than they were under Saddam.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Is Iraq a step back for women? [Re: gregorio]
    #4635723 - 09/08/05 11:23 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

A democracy and a theocracy are not necessarily contradicting, as long as the democracy chooses a theocracy.


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OfflineUnagipie
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Re: Is Iraq a step back for women? [Re: Learyfan]
    #4635730 - 09/08/05 11:24 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

You cant expect everyone to have rights right off the bat. American women didnt vote until the 1900's. In Iraq the feminist movement is quite marginal and has little influence much like the early feminist movement in the United States. The majority of Iraqis simply do not tolerate it at this time. It is a progressive force though, and it will evolve in greater force in Iraq down the road. Right now the pimary concern is a solution to the faction-split Iraq, the Sunnis, Shias, and Kurds. The liberation of women can come later.


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Don't fight it. Just let the illuminados take over your mind. You be at bliss soon.


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OfflineSycronica
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Re: Is Iraq a step back for women? [Re: Unagipie]
    #4635840 - 09/08/05 11:52 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

You cant expect everyone to have rights right off the bat




I call bs. Who says they can't learn from our mistakes? Should we let them have slavery too since we didn't figure out how wrong it was untill the civil war was over?


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Think for yourself. Question authority.

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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: Is Iraq a step back for women? [Re: Unagipie]
    #4636049 - 09/09/05 12:41 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Haven't women been treated poorly since the hands of time began over there? When do you expect that they'll figure it out?











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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Is Iraq a step back for women? [Re: Learyfan]
    #4636065 - 09/09/05 12:46 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Pure and utter speculation. If they are a democracy, as they say they will be, I would expect improved women's rights.


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OfflineSycronica
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Re: Is Iraq a step back for women? [Re: Redstorm]
    #4636104 - 09/09/05 12:58 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Isn't the 1st thing in their constitution say something like, "no law shall be made that violates islamic law" ?

If islamic law says a womans place is only in the home raising kids, then I hardly call that speculation.


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Think for yourself. Question authority.

Forgiveness is the ultimate sacrifice.

You can fool some people sometimes, but you can't fool all the people all the time.


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: Is Iraq a step back for women? [Re: Sycronica]
    #4636126 - 09/09/05 01:03 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Will they be forced to wear the bee keeper suits?







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Mp3 of the month: The Loose Enz - The Black Door



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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Is Iraq a step back for women? [Re: Learyfan]
    #4636602 - 09/09/05 02:47 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

It will be a step back into the stone age for women. I would recomend any free marketeers on the board start up a bee-keeping suit factory. There's a whole new market opening up. Keep your eye on the main chance..


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Offlinegregorio
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Re: Is Iraq a step back for women? [Re: Unagipie]
    #4636927 - 09/09/05 06:06 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Unagipie said:
The liberation of women can come later.




Giving up something that you allready had is a step in a wrong direction.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Is Iraq a step back for women? [Re: Learyfan]
    #4637048 - 09/09/05 08:32 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Learyfan writes:

Quote:

A theocracy will soon be ruling Iraq, right?




Wrong. I have posted links to the full translated text of the Iraq constitution which will be ratified (or not) by the Iraqi populace October 19. There is no indication in any of its provisions that Iraq will be a theocracy. It is of course possible the constitution will be rejected by the Iraqis, in which case the interim constitution in effect for almost two years will continue to be in effect until the next Assembly proposes a new constitution for a second referendum. This interim constitution also in no way suggests a theocratic government.

Quote:

Will the leaders of Iraq not treat women as they're treated in Saudi Arabia, Iran, etc.?




That will be difficult to do considering the proposed constitution demands that at least 25% of the members of the national assembly be women. Note that 25% is a greater figure than the roughly 19% of Iraq's population which is Sunni.

Quote:

Also, do you think the US is actually promoting theocracy rather than Democracy in Iraq?




No. And anyone who does think that is so far out of touch with reality they're beyond help.



Phred


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InvisibleKingOftheThing
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Re: Is Iraq a step back for women? [Re: Learyfan]
    #4637104 - 09/09/05 09:41 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Learyfan said:
Will they be forced to wear the bee keeper suits?










yeah probably ...but i hear they are going to be a progressive force in the region...you're only gonna be allowed to bludgeon your wife in the knee caps with a petrified camel cock every other tuesday.


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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Is Iraq a step back for women? [Re: KingOftheThing]
    #4637544 - 09/09/05 01:10 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

It ain't looking good...

The Iraqi women who fear that democracy will crush freedom
From James Hider

Oppression and inequality may be enshrined in the new constitution


SUHAIDA MAYA never used to wear a hijab, the headscarf that Muslim women don as a mark of religious modesty. An English teacher from Shattra, a town in central Iraq, she always wore whatever she wanted.

Now she and her daughter both cover up for fear of the rising number of Islamist puritans in the south.

?We have to cover up. The Islamic parties even come into schools? sports lessons and tell girls that they have to wear skirts over their tracksuits. It?s like being in Iran,? she said, her defiance shown by the bright pink of her unwanted hijab, and the women?s rights group she runs.

Many women in Iraq, especially in the Shia south, are increasingly concerned that Islamic parties are imposing their strict religious ways on women who once enjoyed some of the most liberal rights in the region.

Leaked drafts of Iraq?s forthcoming constitution bear out fears that restrictions on their rights may soon be enshrined in the law. The latest copy of the charter, due to be finalised in three weeks, revealed wording that could roll back a 1959 secular law that enshrined women?s equality.

Article 19 of the draft states that ?the followers of any religion or sect are free to choose their civil status according to their religious or sectarian beliefs?. In other words, domestic issues, including the issues of divorce and women?s inheritance, could fall under Islamic codes that human rights advocates say would make women second-class citizens.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,7374-1709676,00.html


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OfflineUnagipie
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Re: Is Iraq a step back for women? [Re: Sycronica]
    #4637751 - 09/09/05 02:25 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Sycronica said:
Quote:

You cant expect everyone to have rights right off the bat




I call bs. Who says they can't learn from our mistakes? Should we let them have slavery too since we didn't figure out how wrong it was untill the civil war was over?




The muslim world has to adapt to the modern world on its own. It cannot be dragged kicking and screaming. This will only create a clashing of cultures.


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Don't fight it. Just let the illuminados take over your mind. You be at bliss soon.


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OfflineUnagipie
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Re: Is Iraq a step back for women? [Re: gregorio]
    #4637764 - 09/09/05 02:30 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

gregorio said:
Quote:

Unagipie said:
The liberation of women can come later.




Giving up something that you allready had is a step in a wrong direction.




The fact of the matter is, Saddam did things contrary to what Iraqis wanted. Saddam Hussein allowing his citizens, male or female to freely persue the taboos of the Muslim world - premarital sex and booze, doesn't mean change the fact that he was a political dictator; and a ruthless one at that with no tolerance for dissidency.


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Don't fight it. Just let the illuminados take over your mind. You be at bliss soon.


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OfflineSycronica
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Re: Is Iraq a step back for women? [Re: Unagipie]
    #4637771 - 09/09/05 02:31 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

So they can't be dragged kicking in screaming huh? Then what the hell do you call WAR? Is that just a loving nudge?


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Think for yourself. Question authority.

Forgiveness is the ultimate sacrifice.

You can fool some people sometimes, but you can't fool all the people all the time.


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OfflineUnagipie
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Re: Is Iraq a step back for women? [Re: Sycronica]
    #4637775 - 09/09/05 02:33 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Sorry to bust your bubble, but the war in Iraq is against armed militants, not Conservative Muslims.


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Don't fight it. Just let the illuminados take over your mind. You be at bliss soon.


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OfflineSycronica
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Re: Is Iraq a step back for women? [Re: Unagipie]
    #4637789 - 09/09/05 02:38 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

What a crock. That entire population has expericenced war 1st hand. Not just the bad guys there.


--------------------
Think for yourself. Question authority.

Forgiveness is the ultimate sacrifice.

You can fool some people sometimes, but you can't fool all the people all the time.


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OfflineUnagipie
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Re: Is Iraq a step back for women? [Re: Sycronica]
    #4637881 - 09/09/05 03:00 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Yes, mostly at the hands of terrorists.


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Don't fight it. Just let the illuminados take over your mind. You be at bliss soon.


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