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OfflineDroz
Love of Life
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Registered: 10/16/00
Posts: 2,746
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Randomness.
    #3950260 - 03/21/05 07:23 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

How do you define randomness? When you define it is it real?

Can you guess what fractal most resembles randomness? Now once you know that fractal do you know how to manifest it's power? For it is the power of the sun.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
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Re: Randomness. [Re: Droz]
    #3950290 - 03/21/05 07:29 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Randomness is sequancing that follows unknown laws...
when those laws become formiliar, it is not random anymore


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineDroz
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Re: Randomness. [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3950299 - 03/21/05 07:32 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

To me randomness is pure unfiltered chaos.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Randomness. [Re: Droz]
    #3950305 - 03/21/05 07:33 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

But chaos is allso the domain of yet unknown laws


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineDroz
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Re: Randomness. [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3950322 - 03/21/05 07:37 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

No, these laws are completely understood.


--------------------
Evolution of Time.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Randomness. [Re: Droz]
    #3950373 - 03/21/05 07:58 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Laws of chaos?


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Offlineergot
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Registered: 09/25/03
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Re: Randomness. [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3950409 - 03/21/05 08:06 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Randomness is simply laws we are still ignorant about.


--------------------
"Remain a learner, never become a knower." - Osho


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OfflineDigitalBuddha
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Registered: 09/09/04
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Re: Randomness. [Re: ergot]
    #3950412 - 03/21/05 08:07 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Anything without pre-meditation is random.


--------------------
"The pioneers of a warless world are the youth who refuse military service"

-Albert Einstein-


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Randomness. [Re: Droz]
    #3950421 - 03/21/05 08:09 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

this is random..


--------------------


--------------------
Disclaimer!?


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InvisibleSmami
Bullshit Artist

Registered: 03/21/05
Posts: 3
Loc: All up in yer
Re: Randomness. [Re: Droz]
    #3950592 - 03/21/05 08:57 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

THE DUMBEST CONVERSATION IN THE WORLD GOMP AND DROZ :penis:


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You are getting s-l-e-e-p-y. My willy is your willy. My willy is your willy...


Jacking young male since 1999!


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OfflineDroz
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Re: Randomness. [Re: Smami]
    #3950624 - 03/21/05 09:06 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

... and the greatest reply Swami.

Chaos is distortion.


--------------------
Evolution of Time.


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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
Not here
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Re: Randomness. [Re: Droz]
    #3952666 - 03/22/05 10:13 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

... and the greatest reply Swami.




It made me laugh out loud... randomly, I guess.


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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Randomness. [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3952848 - 03/22/05 11:35 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Randomness is sequancing that follows unknown laws...

If it follows a law, known or otherwise, then it's not random.

Randomness follows no laws.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Offlineergot
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Re: Randomness. [Re: Diploid]
    #3952901 - 03/22/05 11:53 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Then, I'll declare randonmess does not exist according to your definition.


--------------------
"Remain a learner, never become a knower." - Osho


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Randomness. [Re: ergot]
    #3952921 - 03/22/05 12:01 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Then, I'll declare randonmess does not exist according to your definition.

My definition doesn't address the existence of randomness; it only states that randomness follows no laws.

If something follows a law, then it can't be random because it follows a law and can therefor be predicted by understanding the law that governs it. Randomness, by definition, cannot be predicted.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Offlinea_h_w
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Registered: 10/13/04
Posts: 236
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
Re: Randomness. [Re: Diploid]
    #3952934 - 03/22/05 12:06 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

the random function so widely used in computer programming is built out of defined algorithms.

actually this is one class of programming always open for a challenge, like compression, you can always ask:

how random can you get?


interesting thing also is that it seems that no matter what algorithm you write most of the result depends on your capacity of feeding the algorithm a good random seed - the input data. usually coming from the computer clock.

now I find all of this interesting because just recently and on account of all this did I start giving some credit to astrology. what is astrology? an algorithm working results based on input data. you give your date and place of birth and it delivers an output.

my guess is this was developed over thousands of years finding patterns of human behavior and personality. so if it based on experience and relies on input data for algorithmically processing data why shouldn't it work?


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Randomness. [Re: a_h_w]
    #3952990 - 03/22/05 12:22 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

the random function so widely used in computer programming is built out of defined algorithms.

Yes, and these algorithms are called pseudo-random because, while they produce strings of numbers that meet many of the statistical requirements for random numbers, they are nevertheless totally predictable and non-random because they follow a law (algorithm).

my guess is this was developed over thousands of years finding patterns of human behavior and personality. so if it based on experience and relies on input data for algorithmically processing data why shouldn't it work?

Astrology predicts no patterns of human behavior, and no controlled study has ever demonstrated otherwise.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Offlinea_h_w
Stranger
Registered: 10/13/04
Posts: 236
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
Re: Randomness. [Re: Diploid]
    #3958022 - 03/23/05 07:35 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

well you should first explain what is random in this world. the classic case is the coin thrown in the air, which result obviously depends on the laws of physics and the conditions evolved: the force and direction you use, wind, etc...

can you really predict the results of a good random function without decoding the program and knowing the seed?
why should the result be pseudo-random then?

about astrology maybe pattern of human behavior was not the best expression. it really comes down to individual potential and personality.
I thought it was all crap, and the astrology we usually see on the media is real garbage. what made me change a little bit my opinion was having my astral chart done. many things about it were surprisingly correct, it even stated most probably my children would be boys, which became true. it's a 50% shot, but it hit the target nevertheless.

having my maya signature done at www.icandosomething.com just helped bringing it all back to my mind a few months ago. and the most interesting thing about the maya signature is that it clearly addresses your personality in a cosmic perspective. it had so much to do with my spiritual path and exposed so well the struggles I face in it... I believe there is something to it. furthermore the maya were a tremendously interesting culture and all this stuff is based in a mathematical, lunar calendar combining a 13 day cycle with a 28 x 13 days + 1 day out of time cycle, creating a matrix that is in itself a 52 years cycle. inside this cycles there are also other cycles evolving tribes, archetypes, and many other things. it's a pretty complex thing and its results are quite interesting.


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OfflineDelusion_of_Self
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/05
Posts: 230
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: Randomness. [Re: a_h_w]
    #3958097 - 03/23/05 08:36 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

let's all eat mushrooms and get wacky!  :tongue: :smile:


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"It is never a question of belief; the only scientific attitude one can take on any subject is whether it is true. The law of gravitation worked as efficiently before Newton as after him. The cosmos would be fairly chaotic if its laws could not operate without the sanction of human belief." -- Sri Yukteswar


Edited by Delusion_of_Self (03/23/05 08:38 AM)


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Offlinegnrm23
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/30/99
Posts: 6,481
Loc: n. e. OH, USSA
Last seen: 2 months, 28 days
Re: Randomness = disorder [Re: Droz]
    #3958137 - 03/23/05 09:12 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

entropy


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care


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