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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Curious About Your Thoughts On This [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3146223 -

Quote:
i think this is a paradox created by our limited linguistic forms.


That's why mathematics uses rigor in the definition of its language.  Formal mathematical statements cannot be interpreted; they have one and only one meaning to everyone who understands the formal language.  And, intrinsically built into the language is a mechanism whereby one can mechanically test a proof leaving no room for doubt about its validity within the framework in which it is constructed.

Quote:
All paradoxes can be resolved by a change of perspective though.


Again, in formal mathematics a "change of perspective" (interpretation) is not permitted because the formal definitions of the language from which the statements are constructed also define the "perspective" from which they have meaning.

In the non-mathematical world, a "change in perspective" can be used to justify any statement or refute any statement; this is why it is not allowed in formal mathematics.

Quote:
For example, the idea that there are no absolutes can be said to be the only absolute. It makes sense, even though its paradoxical.



This seems paradoxical in human language, but that statement can't be rendered in a language defined as consistent and complete in formal mathematics.

G?del's proof is stated in the language of, and is a statement about, mathematics, more specifically, Formal Logic.  To dismiss it with vague statements about paradoxes doesn't change the truth of it.  :smirk:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Curious About Your Thoughts On This [Re: Diploid]
    #3146323 -

well I think I have to agree with Diplod at lest a little with modern Sience somethings are absolutely unknowable quaton physicis says the same thing (basicly is mathematical lang.)
uncertainty principle (?n-s?r?tn-t? pr?n?se-pel) noun
A principle in quantum mechanics holding that increasing the accuracy of measurement of one observable quantity increases the uncertainty with which other quantities may be known.

The uncertainty principle can also be derived from the fact that when taking a measurement of matter or it's particles, the tools to do so can change the particles. For example, a tool that measure's an atom's speed must change its location. Similarly, a tool to measure an atom's direction will be affecting its speed. Heisenberg proved a mathematical equation in which the measurement of the speed of an atom is the reciprocal (in an equation [N*Y=Z] : N and Y are called reciprocals) of the measurement of the location. In related uncertainty, when a person views the light emitted off an object, the person is seeing how the object was one ten-millionth of a second (or so) ago, because light needs that time to travel to the eye and be recognized by the brain. Therefore, one cannot observe an atom how it exists at the same millisecond as it is viewed. In attempt to measure the atom in a different method, one could reflect light off an atom. However, there is another problem, in that the photon can change the velocity (speed and direction) of that atom. This creates the problem that viewing the atom changes its attributes. Using other atoms to measure will similarly affect the one atom's attributes as well.

So basicly the more we try to learn the less we really know throught science. Since the effort of learning changes what we were trying learning in the first place.


--------------------
"Fear is the Mind Killer"
Frank Herbert's Dune

"Shoot straight, conserve ammo and never cut a deal with a dragon"
Shadowrun street Proverb

To announce there must be no critisism of the president or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong is not only unpatriotic and servile but is morally treasonous to the american public
Pres. Theodore Roosevelt

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Re: Curious About Your Thoughts On This [Re: ElfWizard]
    #3146378 -

To find it all out you must find yourself, other persons learnings cant make you figgure out life unless they explain or show you the way.

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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