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InvisibleRavus
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Dimensions
    #2973279 - 08/06/04 08:59 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

In our world, a 1 dimensional object cannot exist. A line is not 1 dimensional, because it has thickness, however thin it may be. For it to exist as a line, or a dot, it must have both length and height. So a 1D object would not exist on a 2D base, say a piece of paper, or a monitor. It's impossible

A 2 dimensional object cannot exist in our world, because everything that makes it up is 3D. The screen you're looking at right now isn't 2D, it has the depth of the photons that make it up. A picture is not 2D, because it has the depth of the pencil markings, and the accumulation of the pencil lead on the paper. A photo is not 2D, because it has the thickness of the ink that is on top of the base. So there is nothing 2D in our world, as everything that is made up is made up of tiny 3D particles. It's impossible. The only reason we think it's possible is because the depth is so tiny it seems to not exist; this is where our perception tricks us.

Now, does this continue? Dimensions may just be perception, but can a purely 3D object exist? It must also exist in time, the fourth dimension, otherwise it wouldn't have ever come into existence, true? So then a purely 3D object cannot exist; it must have time.

And can a purely 4D object exist?

Finally, my point is, we only perceive the first four dimensions, but there are more. For string theory to exist, there must be 7 or more dimensions. The first 3 dimensions can't exist purely in themselves, because there are always more that must make them up for them to exist in this universe. The question is, does it continue?

The existence of other dimensions would say that it does


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OfflineDegot846
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Re: Dimensions [Re: Ravus]
    #2973329 - 08/06/04 09:14 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

If you can't substantiate the other dimensions then I dont think it can be proven they exist. Also, I think theres no limits to the things you can substantiate as a dimension. For example, you can say time is the fourth, but you can also say that something must exist in a fifth, the passage of time. Just because something exists in a point in time doesnt mean it exists for we have no digital measurement of time, only analouges we create arbitrarily (minutes seconds nanoseconds).

Then this raises the question; if we can precieve it it must exist in all aplicable dimensions, but can other entities precieve something existing in dimensions humans are not able to detect?
Ill end there because I've gone cross eyed.


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-Tom


Edited by Degot846 (08/06/04 09:16 PM)


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Dimensions [Re: Degot846]
    #2973335 - 08/06/04 09:17 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

If that's true, then how do we know the first three are actually dimensions either? Those are just what someone one day decided on, perhaps dimensions don't exist at all and are just semantics and theories trying to explain human reality

Who knows, I don't necessarily believe that though, as mathematicians can calculate mathematics in other dimensions quite easily, putting semantics and concrete reality to them is the hard part


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OfflineDegot846
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Re: Dimensions [Re: Ravus]
    #2973345 - 08/06/04 09:21 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I'm not sure, I wouldnt have been the guy to come up with the term dimensions to quantify our existence. I go with I think therefore I am. No reason to prove anything, and it doesnt drive me crazy if I think about it too long. One of the reasons I hate math.


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-Tom


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InvisibleSimisu
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Re: Dimensions [Re: Ravus]
    #2973361 - 08/06/04 09:27 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

we need another dimention for time in order to decide what it is and how it works but that does not neccerly mean a 5'th dimention exists!
its only an assumption so we can explain what there is...
infinety is represented in everything, lines do exist in a 3d space but they are infinit... they dont end, they're not a constant.
just like time!

but lets say that it does mean there is a 5'th dimention...
then there would probably be infinit number of dimentions!


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InvisibleSimisu
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Re: Dimensions [Re: Ravus]
    #2973382 - 08/06/04 09:32 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

also i don't think that dimentions really exist...
it IS just a way to explain it all
it's not like you can take apart reality and difrentiate one dimention from the other...


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Dimensions [Re: Simisu]
    #2973401 - 08/06/04 09:38 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I'm not just saying there are other more than four dimensions because it makes me happy  :smirk:

Quote:

String theory is a term used to describe a set of very closely related mathematical models of elementary particles and their interactions. String theories seek to unify the theory of gravity (general relativity) with the three other forces of nature which we have learned to describe using the techniques of quantum field theory.

In string theory the known elementary particles are no longer described as dimensionless mathematical point-objects but rather as extended one-dimensional objects (hence the name 'string'). These objects may be either open bits of a line or closed into loops. The size of the individual strings is so fantastically small that any experiment we could possibly perform on an elementary particle would not reveal its string-like nature -- it would look just like the point-particle we expect.

Since the strings have a finite size they can vibrate. All the known particles of nature are just different modes of vibration of the string. Thus the string is the only truly 'fundamental' particle.

For string theories to be mathematically consistent, they need to describe strings moving in more than four dimensions. If a string theory is the correct theory of nature, these extra dimensions must obviously be hidden from our ability to detect them. The general assumption is that they are 'compact' -- rolled into dimension so small that our every-day experience only reveals the four large ones (three space, one time) in which we live.



http://www.physlink.com/Education/AskExperts/ae138.cfm

Watch a very interesting show about string theory here: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/program.html

So string theory says there's 11 dimensions (at least.)


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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OfflineDegot846
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Re: Dimensions [Re: Ravus]
    #2973424 - 08/06/04 09:45 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Sorry man thats way over my head.


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-Tom


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Dimensions [Re: Ravus]
    #2973425 - 08/06/04 09:45 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Leaping to higher dimensions can also simplify the laws of nature. In 1915, Einstein changed completely our notion of gravity by leaping to the extra dimension of time. In 1919, the German mathematician Theodor Kaluza added a fifth dimension and in so doing unified space-time with Maxwell's equations for electromagnetism. This triumph was largely forgotten amid the frenzy of interest generated by quantum mechanics. Only in the 1980s did physicists return to this idea to create superstring theory.

In superstring theory, the subatomic particles we see in nature are nothing more than different resonances of the vibrating superstrings, in the same way that different musical notes emanate from the different modes of vibration of a violin string. (These strings are very small-of the order of 1035 metres.)
Likewise, the laws of physics -the forces between charged particles, for example-are the harmonies of the strings; the Universe is a symphony of vibrating strings. And when strings move in 10-dimensional space-time, they warp the space-time surrounding them in precisely the way predicted by general relativity. So strings simply and elegantly unify the quantum theory of particles and general relativity. Better still, gravity is not an inconvenient add-on. "Unlike conventional quantum field theory, string theory requires gravity," Witten has said. "I regard this fact as one of the greatest insights in science ever made."

But, of course, all this takes place in 10 dimensions. Physicists retrieve our more familiar 4-dimensional Universe by assuming that, during the big bang, 6 of the 10 dimensions curled up (or "compactified") into a tiny ball, while the remaining four expanded explosively, giving us the Universe we see. What has consumed physicists for the past ten years is the task of cataloguing the different ways in which these six dimensions can compactify. Their task has been especially difficult because mathematicians have not worked out the topology and properties of these higher-dimensional universes. The physicists have had to blaze the trail and invent entirely new areas of mathematics. These efforts have revealed millions of compactifications, each of which yields a different pattern of quarks, electrons and so on.



http://www.fortunecity.com/emachines/e11/86/dimens.html

This is rather new though, and changing. Many now think there are actually 11 dimensions, not 10


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OfflineDegot846
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Re: Dimensions [Re: Ravus]
    #2973445 - 08/06/04 09:49 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Alright lets see if I get this, everything vibrates warping space time creating matter? is there any way this can be a little simplified, I'm having trouble keeping up.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Dimensions [Re: Degot846]
    #2973479 - 08/06/04 09:54 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/program.html explains it very well, if you're interested in it. Very trippy show, but very good for showing and giving examples of these new sciences, mainly string theory but also ties in some quantum physics and the extra dimensions


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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InvisibleSimisu
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Re: Dimensions [Re: Ravus]
    #2973554 - 08/06/04 10:08 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

of course not becouse it makes you happy...
what i was trying to say is that if one has to relay on adding a dimention to explain a dimention then that will never end... you'll always have to add one in order to get a refrance point...
anyway i've read a bit about string thiory and all that (can't say it's still fresh in my mind but...)and it's like 5 AM over here and i need to go to sleep... i'll read this tomorrow (alond with the holographic universe thread...)


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