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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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String theory
    #3562808 -

I watched a special on PBS the other day on String Theory. I had heard of it before, but never in such detail. I found it very interesting to say the least. Any thoughts here about String Theory?

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Re: String theory [Re: MOTH]
    #3562928 -

I think Supper String Theory, which is an attempt to reconcile quantum mechanics with General Relativity violates Ackham's Razor. Ackham noted that it was bad science to complicate a system beyond what is necessary, or another way to put it is the simplest explanation is probably the correct one. Supper String Theory posits a nine dimensional space time continuum (I think its nine, maybe 11?). This is necessary for the math to work out properly, but there is no empirical evidence to suggest that there are more than four dimensions (time being the fourth). String theorist would answer that because the extra dimensions come into play only at lengths shorter than the Plank constant, which is a micro fraction the width of a proton, these dimensions could never be observed. Hence, the attempt to reconcile two conflicting theories has created a system far more complex than the empirically observable reality it is trying to explain. And because neither the strings themselves nor the nine dimensions in which the are said to vibrate could ever be empirically verified, I believe this theory is not truly science, but rather falls into the category of philosophical speculation. As philosophy, the unwieldy extra dimensions render an overly complex system which would make Ackham role over in his grave.

I could be wrong, it happens sometimes.

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Re: String theory [Re: shroomydan]
    #3562966 -

I've heard that many modern fields of science like String Theory assume the Big Bang to be true(which we do not know with certainty), and have little empirical evidence supporting them.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: String theory [Re: silversoul7]
    #3564856 -

tie bows
quick release is best


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: String theory [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3564865 -

You are the string of me, as i am the string of you. we are all like the pitch of an tone we could newer hear but see.


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Disclaimer!?

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Re: String theory [Re: Gomp]
    #3564881 -

Or rather we see the pitch with a different kind of ear.


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As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.

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Re: String theory [Re: psyka]
    #3564891 -

are you saying my eyes is a different kind of ear? I'm not following you :P please help me help myself


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Disclaimer!?

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Re: String theory [Re: Gomp]
    #3564903 -

Thats exactly what I'm saying.

How do eyes see?
How do ears hear?

Basically, just two different organs that accept wave-lengths with different methods.


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As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.

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Re: String theory [Re: psyka]
    #3567732 -

I saw the Elegant Universe too, those of you who haven't you can download it from Bearshare it's worth a look!  :thumbup:

Shroomydan, it is 11 dimensions that they have decided on, and silversoul, yes they do assume the Big bang happened. Yet despite a lot of assumptions and unproven theories, it still appears to have potential.


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Turn on your lovelight, let it shine on me

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Re: String theory [Re: lovelight]
    #3568788 -

I can think.

I cannot think that thinking is in one of the 4 dimentions I seem to live in.


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The argent messenger of truth beyond truth, the antithesis of life, cruel and bleak as interstellar space, pulseless and frozen as absolute zero, dazzling with the frost of irrefragable logic and unforgettable fact.

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Re: String theory [Re: slaphappy]
    #3568829 -

think of thinking, and you are already in dimension in dimensions, the 4 dimensions you are in, is not but the body you are as.


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Disclaimer!?

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Re: String theory [Re: Gomp]
    #3568888 -

I don't need no stinkin' empirical evidence.
I've visited spaces in my head that make it hard to believe the universe is as simple as 4 dimensions and "what you see is all there is"


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:thumbup: :thumbdown:

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Re: String theory [Re: Great Scott]
    #3568897 -

"there are as many dimensions, that there is sides of sides."
- unknown :p


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Disclaimer!?

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Re: String theory [Re: MOTH]
    #3568995 -

I did an initial search on the topic and what came up made my brain hurt.  Does anyone know of a website where this theory is explained in simple terms?  :grin:  This kind of schitt makes my brain hurt.


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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Re: String theory [Re: Frog]
    #3569087 -

unfortunately, it can't really be explained in simple terms. that's the problem with all modern physics - you can take pages and pages and pages to explain it, and still not really explain it - but with one page of math, it becomes really clear.

then again, you have to understand multi-variable calculus and other very high-levels of math to comprehend the mathematical explanation.

:shrug:


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Re: String theory [Re: Frog]
    #3569127 -

The basic theory (without all the math) is that all of the fundamental particles, electrons, quarks, photons etc., are identical little loops of string. The strings are like one dimensional rubberbands, they have no width only circular lenght. What distinguishes one particle from another, an electron from an up quark for instance is the way the string is vibrating; these vibrations happen in 11 dimensions of space.  The vibration of the string determines the characteristics of the particle, mass, charge, spin, etc.

String theory for dummies.  :grin:

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Re: String theory [Re: shroomydan]
    #3569147 -

shroomydan said:
The basic theory (without all the math) is that all of the fundamental particles, electrons, quarks, photons etc., are identical little loops of string. The strings are like one dimensional rubberbands, they have no width only circular lenght. What distinguishes one particle from another, an electron from an up quark for instance is the way the string is vibrating; these vibrations happen in 11 dimensions of space.  The vibration of the string determines the characteristics of the particle, mass, charge, spin, etc.

String theory for dummies.  :grin:


That's about it.

I'd like to point any interested parties to the Shroomery Archives... there are quite a few threads about this very subject.

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Re: String theory [Re: Sclorch]
    #3569650 -

it would be great if they could prove it right or wrong, at the moment its not much more then a belief.


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Like a meteor, like darkness, as a flickering lamp, An illusion, like hoar-frost or a bubble, Like clouds, a flash of lightning, or a dream: So is all conditioned existence to be seen. -buddha

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Re: String theory [Re: Frog]
    #3569704 -

Frog said:
Does anyone know of a website where this theory is explained in simple terms?


If you haven't found it already, this is an excellent site dedicated to the subject:

http://superstringtheory.com

I read about it months ago, but I've already forgotten most of what I read.  :smirk:

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Re: String theory [Re: soulmotion]
    #3569737 -

I don't know string theory but I saw this written on a subway wall..

all matter, physical and spiritual, is composed of billions of sub-atomic particles that 'vibrate' at a certain frequency, and that frequency is the density they reside in. rocks for example, are in the 1st density, where plants and some animals would be in the 2nd, humans in the 3rd, etc. Density is the actual vibrational frequency of the sub-atomic particles, 'less dense' being faster and shorter and 'more dense' being slower and longer waves. Dimension would refer to the level of consciousness, 1st dimension of mineral life with no conscious awareness of self, 2nd dimension with awareness of self but no 'ego', 3rd dimension with awareness of self and mobility and ego and the ability to manipulate the external environment, 4th dimension with loss of ego and integration of group identity while maintaining self identity, 5th dimension with loss of physical body and pure awareness as a spirit or consciousness.. and so on.. all the way up to collective perpetual "god" awareness.. as one.. eternal light or something along those lines.


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Re: String theory [Re: Shroomism]
    #3570236 -

I agree, completely. It just makes so much sense to me. I try to portray the concept to others but its so hard...I think it has to do with unwillingness to remove the ego from the purity of the natural evolutionary conciousness.

The Universe is a closed system, nothing escapes, nothing is wasted. All is in perpetual harmonious motion, and it is organized via frequency resonances and differing wave-lengths.

If we had a device that could change natural resonances in atoms to different frequency's I think it would change the physical property's of the atom into something completely different. For an unrealistic example: a carbon atom resonates at (14 * 10^9) Hz, if we could alter the resonance to (20 * 10^9) Hz it would change physically into a hydrogen atom. This I believe is the programming language of the Universe and it is all organized chaotically into fractal-like node structures.

This understanding I feel is very important for us to grasp.


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As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.

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Re: String theory [Re: psyka]
    #3570373 -

humans are animals.

on du kan norsk, forklar meg hvordan vi ellers kan kallse for patte dyr, patte? pupp? dyr? patte dyr min mor? men jeg er ikke dyr? i dont get it..


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Disclaimer!?

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Re: String theory [Re: MOTH]
    #3582589 -

one of the many things that i'd like to know is if there is just the 11 dimensions ( :rotfl: ) do they have dimensions within them too? They are saying our dimension does, what about the rest? If so, do these dimensions have dimensinos also? This would lead to an infinite number of dimensions... a more likely idea. Does anyone know if they think the primary 11 have more to them?


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Turn on your lovelight, let it shine on me

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Re: String theory [Re: lovelight]
    #3582649 -

Like music... dimensions have 'overtones' to them. There are maybe 7 or 11 overtones between each dimension.. and who knows.. 7 or 11 overtones between each of those overtones!



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Re: String theory [Re: lovelight]
    #3582781 -

My understanding is that the eleven dimensions were posited to account for the properties of all the known primary particles. If there were only four dimensions(width, length, depth, and time), then the strings would not have space to vibrate in enough different ways to account for the various phenomena exhibited by the zoo of primary particles: electrons, quarks (up, down, top, strange, and Tao in the various 'colors' red blue and green) neutrinos, pions, photons, gluons... there's lots of them. Assuming that all these particles are really identical strings, the theorists had to account for variations in their properties by the vibrations of the strings. A string can only vibrate so many ways in four dimensions, and four didn't provide enough variation to account for the entire zoo, so the string theorists began positing extra dimensions in which a string could vibrate. By the time they worked all the math they needed eleven dimensions to account for the qualitative differences among the primary particles. (Interestingly this includes the graviton which is a hypothetical particle said to be responsible for transmission of the force of gravity; this particle has yet to be observed and some question its existence)

It's difficult to explain these hypothetical dimensions because our minds don't have categories of understanding in which to place them, but by analogy they can be said to be very small. They wrap around on themselves at distances millions times shorter than the width of an atom, hence they cannot be observed. If there are further dimensions hiding within them, then these would be even 'smaller'.

As a man of faith I believe in states of being beyond the material realm of the space time continuum, which some would call dimensions. These spiritual realms of being, some of which overlap the material realm, are different from what the string theorist are positing. For them the eleven dimensions make up the space time continuum in which matter and energy exist.

Are there infinite levels to reality? Quite possibly, but I think it's a mistake to conflate an infinite number of spiritual dimensions with the seven extra spaciotemporal dimensions necessary to balance the string theory equations.

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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