ShroomDad said:

Something Ive always wondered, wasn't the rave on October 7th basically a loud party celebrating the theft of Palestinian land that was within hearing of the Palestinians? Weren't they taunting Hamas?

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True North said:

The difference is that nobody in Gaza committed any crimes.

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It's the Holy Land of several religions. That doesn't mean every fairytale is good to go

SARAtonin said:

I feel like I’ve already expressed my views many times. As I’ve stated before, I still support a two state solution even after Oct7 because there simply is no other option.

While I acknowledge the Jewish people as being the indigenous inhabitants of Judea and modern day Israel, Palestinians have their own history and connection to the land too. Zionism is an indigenous people’s movement that believes Jews have a right to self-determination upon their ancestral homeland, so to deny that to Palestinians goes directly against the very principles at the core of Zionism even if their history is a more recent one the connection is still there.

All life is beautiful, sacred, and deserving of dignity, respect, and protection. Palestinian life is no exception.

That all said, I would be an idiot if I tried to say we were anywhere close to where we need to be for a two state solution to actually work. Hamas still retains substantial armed and coercive power in Gaza, and its 1988 charter explicitly called for violence against Jews, that goal still remains the same today. Meanwhile, Israel’s governing coalition has empowered far right figures such as Ben-Gvir, while settler leaders such as Daniella Weiss continue pushing their own extremist vision.

As generations of conflict, trauma, and hostility compound, tensions rise, anger deepens, and hatred grows fat in even the most peaceful hearts. The enormous work required on both sides to undo dehumanization, rebuild trust, and create political cultures capable of coexistence is daunting to think about and seems impossible at times.

But I know eventually we will get there. I might not see it in my lifetime, but we will get there, because, as I mentioned before, a two state solution is the only realistic path I see to both peoples having self-determination, security, and a future.

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CrAcKbAbY said:

This thread is simply about the Israeli government, eh?  I could've sworn after reading through it, that it's mostly a rally for the type of antisemetic propaganda which has become so fashionable with the folks of your ilk nowadays

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ShroomDad said:

Something Ive always wondered, wasn't the rave on October 7th basically a loud party celebrating the theft of Palestinian land that was within hearing of the Palestinians? Weren't they taunting Hamas?

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shivas.wisdom said:

"The Palestinians and surrounding Arab nations waged war upon them from day 1 of their establishment as a state"

Israel wasn't established on empty land -- it's very foundation was built on the violent ethnic cleansing known as the Nakba (the catastrophe) -- would you accept a UN decision that gives away 56% of the USA to establish a new country? -- would you accept the attempts to ethnically cleanse this land grant, or would you act on the right to defend yourself?

The central facts of what happened in the Nakba during the 1948 Palestine war are well established, documented, and widely agreed upon by most Israeli, Palestinian, and other historians

"Never again" was supposed to be a universalist injunction to prevent all forms of genocide -- but it's been perverted by zionazis as justification for oppression, apartheid, and genocide of Palestinians for generations

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Of course it wasn't established on empty land.  The land was occupied by 'Palestinians', who had essentially been waging war on Jews going back to the Balfour Declaration.  There was never an actual state or country of 'Palestine'.  It was a territory formerly known as Judaea, with a name given to it by Romans after they had done a true ethnic cleansing of the Jews who lived there.  The name 'Palestine' was meant to add insult to injury, and to erase any connection to their land by naming it after the Phillistines, their ancient enemy.

Once Israel was officially granted its statehood, and all the absentee Arab land owners sold much of the land to Jewish settlers fair and square, the embittered Palestinians continued to revolt and attack the Jews, rather than accept it and attempt to live side by side in peace.  Some of them did, and their descendants remain in Israel as part of the 2 million Arab population currently residing in Israel.  How would this be possible if they were 'ethnically cleansed'?

It should be kept in mind, that if the Germans or Russians had control over what happened in the Middle East after World War II rather than Britain, things would likely have been far worse for Palestinians.
     

The more I learn about the history of the Israel/Palestine conflict, the more I learn that there's usually two versions at play - the Palestinian victim narrative, and the reality of what happened which involved atrocities on both sides.  As far as the Nakba, to call it an 'ethnic cleansing' is ridiculous.  There was a full scale war launched upon the Jews by the Palestinians and the surrounding Arab nations after the inception of Israel.  I'll dumb it down for you...during war, many folks tend to get displaced (I believe around 12 million Germans were displaced at the end of WWII).  Also, many of the Palestinians were evacuated from their homes by the the invading Arabs, who told them they would be able to return after the Jews were wiped out.  Unfortunately for them, they lost the war.

SARAtonin said:

I feel like I’ve already expressed my views many times. As I’ve stated before, I still support a two state solution even after Oct7 because there simply is no other option.

While I acknowledge the Jewish people as being the indigenous inhabitants of Judea and modern day Israel, Palestinians have their own history and connection to the land too. Zionism is an indigenous people’s movement that believes Jews have a right to self-determination upon their ancestral homeland, so to deny that to Palestinians goes directly against the very principles at the core of Zionism even if their history is a more recent one the connection is still there.

All life is beautiful, sacred, and deserving of dignity, respect, and protection. Palestinian life is no exception.

That all said, I would be an idiot if I tried to say we were anywhere close to where we need to be for a two state solution to actually work. Hamas still retains substantial armed and coercive power in Gaza, and its 1988 charter explicitly called for violence against Jews, that goal still remains the same today. Meanwhile, Israel’s governing coalition has empowered far right figures such as Ben-Gvir, while settler leaders such as Daniella Weiss continue pushing their own extremist vision.

As generations of conflict, trauma, and hostility compound, tensions rise, anger deepens, and hatred grows fat in even the most peaceful hearts. The enormous work required on both sides to undo dehumanization, rebuild trust, and create political cultures capable of coexistence is daunting to think about and seems impossible at times.

But I know eventually we will get there. I might not see it in my lifetime, but we will get there, because, as I mentioned before, a two state solution is the only realistic path I see to both peoples having self-determination, security, and a future.

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shivas.wisdom said:

"There was never an actual state or country of 'Palestine'."

"[A]bsentee Arab land owners sold much of the land to Jewish settlers fair and square."

"As far as the Nakba, to call it an 'ethnic cleansing' is ridiculous.  There was a full scale war[...]"



Really going for the trifecta of Israeli an-Nakba denialism -- Palestinians aren't a people... Israelis bought unoccupied land... ethnic cleansing was the inevitable side effect of war...

These lies are no longer worth the time to rebut, as they are no longer believed by anyone except those who continue to willfully spread zionazi lies -- I just wanted to respond in order to tell you that your time was wasted

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As if I need your validation...LOL.  I already realize there's no getting through to someone like yourself.  I'm mainly posting for anyone else who might be viewing this shit thread and possibly falling for all the misinformation and antisemetic propaganda which you and others have been spreading.

4:40-8:50 minute mark is relevant to this conversation

shivas.wisdom said:

"Never again!"

Does it mean "never again, to anyone, anywhere" or "never again to us, by any means"?

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