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Re: Cube growers, why don't you grow exotics or woodlovers? [Re: Kloakk] * 1
    #29472752 -

:camping:

Just wanted to follow the thread, but I seldom grow cubes any more. Too many other things to try and all of my testers prefer semps to cubes. I like tamps more, but I want to wrap my head around the differences in the various pans more, cyan vs cambo vs bisporus.

Not wanting to derail. I am interested in the conversation around why others prefer cubes, too.


--------------------
Stoned Gummys | BRF Pucks | Primo Reusable Plates | Easy LI 4 Preserv & Propo
"Psychedelics are powerful substances. Nothing that powerful is completely safe... and nothing completely safe is that powerful!" - Abigail Calder at ALPS 2023
Don't Panic

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Re: Cube growers, why don't you grow exotics or woodlovers? [Re: Kloakk]
    #29472760 -

My grow space, when going, is usually 60% cubes for the ease, yields and reliability of fruiting in most conditions. 30% Ps. mexicana/sclerotia varieties that I fruit (not for sclerotia), due to fruits being potent (see my longer thread on potency, but they usually test at 12-15mg/g), these grow as easy as cubes, but yields are not as good generally. The other 10% of grow space is for pans, exotics and experiments. I can reliably grow a small amount of pans with minimal effort, but the second I try and scale up I have issues. A few pan cakes in an open top grow bag & misting daily I have success with, but always having problems with pan shoeboxes means I haven't felt like dumping more money into humidity tent, fans or more gear. Tried lots of exotics, but same, not very successful so more just for the fun of trying. I feel like decent PE cube variety will yield good (2oz per quart of grain) and at an average of 9mg/g, good mexicana variety will yield decent (3/4oz per quart of grain) and test at 15mg/g. Ease of effort, fruiting reliability and potency are the important things I focus on in my grow.

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Re: Cube growers, why don't you grow exotics or woodlovers? [Re: B Traven]
    #29472764 -

B Traven said:
Beyond that, if I'm being real, the phrase "woodlovers and exotics" conjures up images of woodlover's paralysis and amanita-induced brain damage.



The latter is not a thing and I suspect neither is the former. I used to get paralysis with high dose liberty caps all the time- which is why I stopped eating them


--------------------
"Psyche" means soul, not mind

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Re: Cube growers, why don't you grow exotics or woodlovers? [Re: Elixirel] * 4
    #29472768 -

Elixirel said:
B Traven said:
Beyond that, if I'm being real, the phrase "woodlovers and exotics" conjures up images of woodlover's paralysis and amanita-induced brain damage.



The latter is not a thing and I suspect neither is the former. I used to get paralysis with high dose liberty caps all the time- which is why I stopped eating them



Yeah, I don't know anything about woodlover's paralysis, it's just what comes to mind because, like I said, I'm just reading random stuff about them.

I'm not going there with the amanita discussion. It's been done in plenty of other threads. I'm pretty sure based on your profile pic that we're not gonna find a common language or conception of reality.


--------------------

Edited by B Traven (02/03/26 02:53 PM)

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Re: Cube growers, why don't you grow exotics or woodlovers? [Re: Kloakk]
    #29472811 -

Kloakk said:
Breadly710 said:
Tell me more Kloakk. I have tried and might get a few to pop up in the winter.
My oldest is moving out next month so his room will be the cult room/office. Actually have decent climate control in there.



I was just tooting my own horn :lol: I was assuming you had seen my build.



I missed that one. I will have some space to do something like that soon. Right now I have a closet and a gourmet tent in the small unfinished area.

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Re: Cube growers, why don't you grow exotics or woodlovers? [Re: B Traven] * 3
    #29472812 -

I think Exotics are the natural next step, hobby-wise.

It's not that they're all that more difficult, it's just that your skills at identifying contam, making grain, clean work, etc... all have to be top notch to have any hope at success.

Pasteurizing isn't hard with a bit of extra equipment, but if you can't make a 100% clean culture or rely on vendors then you're setting yourself up for failure.


--------------------
I've got skills, they don't know where to use me
I'm like the best dressed guy at the nude beach
Nice to meet you!

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Re: Cube growers, why don't you grow exotics or woodlovers? [Re: PuffM4gicDr4gon] * 1
    #29472892 -

I'm working on it — barriers to entry have been the increased need for pasteurisation/sterilisation of substrate and casing and establishing environmental controls.

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Re: Cube growers, why don't you grow exotics or woodlovers? [Re: bongoman] * 3
    #29473203 -

I really like growing cubes. I’m no master, but I’m mostly confident in my process and have pretty consistent success. Because of this, I’ve learned how to fit the growing process and timeline into my normal life. Also, I love the trip.

However, my main barrier is that a lot of people here love ochras. They say that they are more “clear-headed”. Well, I grew them, I ate them, and the trip wasn’t my favorite. Not that they suck or anything, I just like cubes more. I think I understand what people mean by them being more clear-headed, but I feel like they are missing something. Not to say they aren’t potent, because they are most certainly that. Well, people also say Pan Cyan are more clear-headed. Hence why I’m a little hesitant to put effort into them just to find out I still prefer cubes.

Oh, and I don’t know if I want to deal with pasteurizing horse manure in my house. I dunno, maybe one day I’ll change my mind.

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Re: Cube growers, why don't you grow exotics or woodlovers? [Re: LadysKnight] * 2
    #29473280 -

Same. Theres just so many strain varieties of Cubes right now! Its like a global Cube party! :mushroom2:
:awedance:

I did just find a source for Ps stunztii spore prints. Ive only found this species in the wild (as pictured in my avatar pic against a tie-dye t-shirt). This Fall, I plan on cultivating some stunztiis for the first time ever! :awesomenod:

I have grown Ps cyans from wild prints. I did not like the toxic side-effects thou. Not worth it.

Ive also grown Natals and Orchas. Love those species. Do those count as "exotics"?


--------------------
"A single lifetime in this density can accomplish a refinement of Will that might take far longer in a realm where the truth is always visible" - Zii, Confederation of Planets, GFL Station.

"You will then have national and global contact around 2026." - Pleiadian Prophecy 2020

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Re: Cube growers, why don't you grow exotics or woodlovers? [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 10
    #29473325 -

LogicaL Chaos said:
Ive also grown Natals and Orchas. Love those species. Do those count as "exotics"?



Natal and ochras are both assumably ochras. But technically any active that is a cube would be an exotic or woodlover right. But ochras are soooo close to cubes I wouldnt really consider them exotics. The stuntzii should be really cool! I have t fruited that one yet. But I did give a colonized container of pine bark mulch to a friend and it fruited for him 🤷‍♂️🙄🤣 anyways I have more going so should find success with it soon hahah.

I didn't expect so much responses on this and Id like to reply to everyone when given the time. But out of most of the comments that Im seeing where they don't want to because of a specific reason pertaining to something like the trip, or temps, or manure, or etc. Heres what I have to say to that. There's like idk a hundred species or so in Psilocybe genbank. Now these are different, described species. That means they've been labeled their own species and are unique. All of them have different alkaloid levels. So many of them feel very different from one another. So if you're a cube person and tripped on pans and didn't like it more. There's many more to try. Of course that's back into experimenting if that's something youre up to. There could be a species out there tho that once you take, you'll regret having waited so long.

Same goes for temperature, conditions, substrate, etc. There's MANY species that don't require a hotter or colder temperature, or manure, or wood. There's tons of species that can be grown in the same substrate as cubes. There's tons of species that be grown inexpensively. Basically just a tub with an aquarium air pump and an air stone! So cheap!!! For people who have seen my lab, yeah I have expensive taste BUT I acquired nearly everything I have from when I was a vendor AND it's because I try to fruit all active Psilocybe species outside of cubensis. So I've set myself up to be able to tackle everything and anything. It's my goal to outline exact parameters needed for every single species and be able to write detailed notes on it for the community as a whole some day.

I would like to make a thread specifically dedicated for "What species can I grow?" And people can comment all of the parameters they can hit easily and substrate they can acquire easily. From there I can comment every species that I can think of that they should be able to grow given the conditions. I'm just afraid that this thread would just be lost and not easy to find. So it feels kind of pointless. With that being said, anyone is free to message me this instead!

As for yield, if that's you're issue and you live somewhere that isn't a desert. Wow, you really should be looking into some outdoor woodlovers. You'd be pretty amazed! Oh and woodlovers paralyses comes from Section Subaeruginosae. There's still Sections Ovoideocystidiata, Aztecorum, Caerulescentes, and some in Section Semilanceatae that are all woodlovers that don't cause WLP. Many people don't even experience it though, even within Subaeruginosae. I have a list written here that destailes what species are in what section if you're curious

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/29183195

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Re: Cube growers, why don't you grow exotics or woodlovers? [Re: PhenoDreamers]
    #29473340 -

I'm a relative newb but looking to branch out to other species I made a thread the other day and was recommended subtropicalis, which is my next project next winter

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Re: Cube growers, why don't you grow exotics or woodlovers? [Re: PhenoDreamers] * 3
    #29473343 -

Interesting Anecdote:

My wife tried some Azzies while I was at work. The first thing she told me when I got home was how the mushrooms made her feel like she couldn't move and was stuck on the couch. I've never mentioned WLP to her before. This means she experienced something without any prior knowledge coloring her expectations.

As for pasteurizing manure and casing, I've been doing something simple that might seem less intimidating for newbies. I know it works for me.

Lately I've been using an analog crock pot and a brewer's temperature probe. For manure, I have been just making Manure tea like Baba and using it to hydrate coir. The crock pot heats the water or casing to 143-155F and the probe turns the unit on/off to keep it at that range.

I just setup my pasteurization and go to sleep. The Manure Tea Coir has been sitting in a bucket for months without contaminating. It's easy AF.


--------------------
I've got skills, they don't know where to use me
I'm like the best dressed guy at the nude beach
Nice to meet you!

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Re: Cube growers, why don't you grow exotics or woodlovers? [Re: Peleus] * 3
    #29473349 -

Peleus said:
I haven't yet grown exotics, but I plan to.

Why I haven't gotten into them yet, from most important to least:
- they require manure*. It's difficult to cook in a flat, not to mention while living with someone
- they're harder to grow than cubes and take much longer
- it is just a tad more expensive to get a hold of them for me. I can get pans and ochra (only have pans for now, but am itching for ochras). Haven't found a way to get other exotics or stone producers.


* I know about growing without it and that's what I plan, but as I understand it, it's easier to use pasteurized poo



You can pasteurise manure subs in closed jars and have an open jar in the middle of the pan with a thermometer in it to avoid stinking out your house.
That's how I did my bulk substrate for cubes (15 years ago) before everyone realised coir was easier.


--------------------





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Re: Cube growers, why don't you grow exotics or woodlovers? [Re: PhenoDreamers] * 3
    #29473359 -

PhenoDreamers said:
LogicaL Chaos said:
Ive also grown Natals and Orchas. Love those species. Do those count as "exotics"?



Natal and ochras are both assumably ochras. But technically any active that is a cube would be an exotic or woodlover right. But ochras are soooo close to cubes I wouldnt really consider them exotics. The stuntzii should be really cool! I have t fruited that one yet. But I did give a colonized container of pine bark mulch to a friend and it fruited for him 🤷‍♂️🙄🤣 anyways I have more going so should find success with it soon hahah.

I didn't expect so much responses on this and Id like to reply to everyone when given the time. But out of most of the comments that Im seeing where they don't want to because of a specific reason pertaining to something like the trip, or temps, or manure, or etc. Heres what I have to say to that. There's like idk a hundred species or so in Psilocybe genbank. Now these are different, described species. That means they've been labeled their own species and are unique. All of them have different alkaloid levels. So many of them feel very different from one another. So if you're a cube person and tripped on pans and didn't like it more. There's many more to try. Of course that's back into experimenting if that's something youre up to. There could be a species out there tho that once you take, you'll regret having waited so long.

Same goes for temperature, conditions, substrate, etc. There's MANY species that don't require a hotter or colder temperature, or manure, or wood. There's tons of species that can be grown in the same substrate as cubes. There's tons of species that be grown inexpensively. Basically just a tub with an aquarium air pump and an air stone! So cheap!!! For people who have seen my lab, yeah I have expensive taste BUT I acquired nearly everything I have from when I was a vendor AND it's because I try to fruit all active Psilocybe species outside of cubensis. So I've set myself up to be able to tackle everything and anything. It's my goal to outline exact parameters needed for every single species and be able to write detailed notes on it for the community as a whole some day.

I would like to make a thread specifically dedicated for "What species can I grow?" And people can comment all of the parameters they can hit easily and substrate they can acquire easily. From there I can comment every species that I can think of that they should be able to grow given the conditions. I'm just afraid that this thread would just be lost and not easy to find. So it feels kind of pointless. With that being said, anyone is free to message me this instead!

As for yield, if that's you're issue and you live somewhere that isn't a desert. Wow, you really should be looking into some outdoor woodlovers. You'd be pretty amazed! Oh and woodlovers paralyses comes from Section Subaeruginosae. There's still Sections Ovoideocystidiata, Aztecorum, Caerulescentes, and some in Section Semilanceatae that are all woodlovers that don't cause WLP. Many people don't even experience it though, even within Subaeruginosae. I have a list written here that destailes what species are in what section if you're curious

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/29183195



:takingnotes:

I would definitely follow that "what species can I grow?" thread. I kind of tube out most discussions and comments that don't deal with cubensis because it's like listening to mechanics talk in passing about working on cars I've never seen.


--------------------

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Re: Cube growers, why don't you grow exotics or woodlovers? [Re: HappinessStan] * 3
    #29473370 -

HappinessStan said:
You can pasteurise manure subs in closed jars and have an open jar in the middle of the pan with a thermometer in it to avoid stinking out your house.
That's how I did my bulk substrate for cubes (15 years ago) before everyone realised coir was easier.



Not directed at you Stan, you were just the last one to mention poo :lol: I just wanted to add that I haven't used manure in a single exotic grow, I use cow manure compost, it's smells and basically is, soil, it works great really, i sift it and use straight out the bag.


--------------------
“All Fungi are edible.

Some fungi are only edible once.”
― Terry Pratchett


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Re: Cube growers, why don't you grow exotics or woodlovers? [Re: Kloakk] * 1
    #29473388 -

Kloakk said:
HappinessStan said:
You can pasteurise manure subs in closed jars and have an open jar in the middle of the pan with a thermometer in it to avoid stinking out your house.
That's how I did my bulk substrate for cubes (15 years ago) before everyone realised coir was easier.



Not directed at you Stan, you were just the last one to mention poo :lol: I just wanted to add that I haven't used manure in a single exotic grow, I use cow manure compost, it's smells and basically is, soil, it works great really, i sift it and use straight out the bag.



That's what I use for my manure tea. I don't even sift it. I just stir it in water and strain any solids. Sifting is a PITA for me because I haven't built a dedicated rig for it.


--------------------
I've got skills, they don't know where to use me
I'm like the best dressed guy at the nude beach
Nice to meet you!

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Re: Cube growers, why don't you grow exotics or woodlovers? [Re: PuffM4gicDr4gon] * 3
    #29473423 -

Chose other.

It just comes down to ease of growth with cubes and not really sure what much of a difference it would make to do wood lovers when I get what I want from cubes.

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Re: Cube growers, why don't you grow exotics or woodlovers? [Re: HappinessStan]
    #29473433 -

HappinessStan said:
You can pasteurise manure subs in closed jars and have an open jar in the middle of the pan with a thermometer in it to avoid stinking out your house.
That's how I did my bulk substrate for cubes (15 years ago) before everyone realised coir was easier.



:mindblown:

Thanks for the tip HS, I'll give a shot in spring!

Kloakk said:
I haven't used manure in a single exotic grow, I use cow manure compost, it's smells and basically is, soil, it works great really, i sift it and use straight out the bag.




Do you have a link I might peruse, Kloakk? Or do you make your own?

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Re: Cube growers, why don't you grow exotics or woodlovers? [Re: Peleus] * 5
    #29473531 -

Faht and my own experiments are proving that pans are a lot easier than folks assume.  The biggest hurdle is clean spawn and managing the casing layer.  I've been fruiting things at 72-75 all winter.  The oxygen requirements aren't as bad as folks think (Stamets lists them as 5000ppm co2, which is much more than a lot of gourmets will tolerate).

What they do like is a fresh air exchange once or twice an hour to promote evaporation.  Faht is doing this with a fan on a timer blowing on his grow space, and fruiting things in Ziplocks.  Going overboard with air makes casings much harder to manage.  They'll dry out, then get overwatered.  The mycelium can't breathe and stalls.

Anyway, I'll probably stick to pans and probably start a woodlover bed in the spring.  For me, it's about hyper focus.  I like to find my niche and stick with it.  That niche just wasn't cubes.


--------------------
And if I only could
I'd make a deal with God
And I'd get him to swap our places
I'd be running up that road
Be running up that hill
With no problems

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Re: Cube growers, why don't you grow exotics or woodlovers? [Re: PhenoDreamers] * 2
    #29473557 -

I think when I'm done with cubes (which won't be another few years), I will try Pans next. They seem to be the easiest after cubes, just not as many or large fruits.


--------------------
Even if you fail, success is the knowledge gained along the way.


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