koods said:

Mass firing happening all over the government.

---

Icon said:

How do tariffs work? Let's say hypothetical 10% tariff on bananas from bananaland. I've heard the payment is collected from the importer, which would be an American entity right? And who does it go to? Straight to the treasury?

The banana company doesn't pay the 10% do they?

I'm confused how this is supposed to balance the trade deficit or keep money from flowing out of the country. Assuming bananaland keeps their price the same, the tariff doesn't directly affect the amount of money transferring from USA to bananaland. In this case, bananas don't grow in USA so there's nothing importers can really do to avoid the tariff. It makes sense that the tariff is added to the consumer's price, unless the importer just volunteers to absorb it for some reason I can't imagine.

So when the consumer is effectively paying the tariff, isn't that just the same as a tax? They might as well itemize it on the receipt.

Subtotal
State Sales Tax
Federal Import Tax
Total

I don't understand what people expected. "We're gonna tariff Mexico until they control fentanyl smuggling" How does collecting more taxes from Americans help or pressure Mexico to combat drug smuggling?

It just feels like a lie told to gullible, uninformed people... to manipulate them into getting excited about being taxed.


In general I like anything that helps accomplish lowering the debt, so I'm cool with taxes. I personally live frugally and flexibly, so I don't expect tariffs to affect me as much as some people. But the deception is really insulting. Just call it what it is and tell everyone to suck it up and pay double taxes until the debt is under control. If people can't do that, then the country is doomed anyway and it'll just be harder to face the music in the future.

I think the real value in tariffs is when it works beyond just being a tax. Tariffing bananas is probably stupid since we can't onshore banana production even if we wanted to. Stuff we could be manufacturing is a better idea, but we're so unprepared to absorb the level of production that the average American consumes.

We're missing the manufacturing equipment, the education and experience, the raw material extraction and processing, and probably the biggest reason - missing the 3rd world wage. I feel like it would take decades to really turn things around from the low we're at now to post-WW2 capabilities. But maybe better late than never, cuz it truly doesn't add up how we can sustain our buying power with the amount of value we produce. Something's gotta give. We can produce more value in-house, but either way our buying power seems destined to decline:

If the dollar were not #1, we wouldn't be able to control the exchange rate and effectively devalue other countries labor and production. BRICS countries are already restructuring this status quo. If we do nothing, we're going to get dumped; which may happen anyway since solving our debt doesn't address international inequities, like the disproportional burden of pollution and climate change on poor countries that our corrupt trade practices are responsible for impoverishing.

If we start producing things here, the startup costs and higher wages that can't be exchanged will immediately drive prices up, effectively popping our buying-power bubble. More jobs is good; but watch wages freeze, as prices soar, until we're relatively low-wage compared to pre-2000 American's ratio of income to buying power. If you look at the cost of buying a house for example, a blue collar wage 40 years ago was basically 4x more potent than it is today. The "American dream" of a yard, fence, 3 bedroom multi-story house is already impossible for most people... just wait until the bubble really pops. Bye-bye middle class.



In my most extreme imagination, this then solidifies the transfer of power (production) to the corporate elite. The top-down corruption, that capitalism requires for profit to function, also enables the wealthier, bigger companies to "grow" and cancerously monopolize smaller competitors. Now here we are. A handful of brands have monopolies on markets. The days when someone could save and invest in themselves as a competitive business enterprise are passing as pressures become insurmountable. But owning the production isn't enough, they want to own the land and the housing too. The days when someone could save and invest in a home are passing too. Already you see companies buying family property to rent out for profit -- Which increases the odds they can elbow out families on the next property, and the next. As the middle class vaporizes, it'll become literal landlords again. Amazon will rent you a 3-d printed studio while you're employed, that they can take away and give to someone else if you don't behave. Then they can cap water and power consumption, monitor everyone, etc. They'll own us.

---

Icon said:

That's smart to learn Chinese. They lead US universities now in some science fields. We don't even make the top 10 in Engineering. They're influencing our culture too, most recently with tik tok. Being a vessel for culture exporting is the real reason US wants to ban it. Seemed to influence the youth's priorities in the last election cycle. Many students protested Israel, foreign students in the lead.

---

Icon said:

How do tariffs work? Let's say hypothetical 10% tariff on bananas from bananaland. I've heard the payment is collected from the importer, which would be an American entity right? And who does it go to? Straight to the treasury?

The banana company doesn't pay the 10% do they?

I'm confused how this is supposed to balance the trade deficit or keep money from flowing out of the country. Assuming bananaland keeps their price the same, the tariff doesn't directly affect the amount of money transferring from USA to bananaland. In this case, bananas don't grow in USA so there's nothing importers can really do to avoid the tariff. It makes sense that the tariff is added to the consumer's price, unless the importer just volunteers to absorb it for some reason I can't imagine.

So when the consumer is effectively paying the tariff, isn't that just the same as a tax? They might as well itemize it on the receipt.

Subtotal
State Sales Tax
Federal Import Tax
Total

I don't understand what people expected. "We're gonna tariff Mexico until they control fentanyl smuggling" How does collecting more taxes from Americans help or pressure Mexico to combat drug smuggling?

It just feels like a lie told to gullible, uninformed people... to manipulate them into getting excited about being taxed.


In general I like anything that helps accomplish lowering the debt, so I'm cool with taxes. I personally live frugally and flexibly, so I don't expect tariffs to affect me as much as some people. But the deception is really insulting. Just call it what it is and tell everyone to suck it up and pay double taxes until the debt is under control. If people can't do that, then the country is doomed anyway and it'll just be harder to face the music in the future.

I think the real value in tariffs is when it works beyond just being a tax. Tariffing bananas is probably stupid since we can't onshore banana production even if we wanted to. Stuff we could be manufacturing is a better idea, but we're so unprepared to absorb the level of production that the average American consumes.

We're missing the manufacturing equipment, the education and experience, the raw material extraction and processing, and probably the biggest reason - missing the 3rd world wage. I feel like it would take decades to really turn things around from the low we're at now to post-WW2 capabilities. But maybe better late than never, cuz it truly doesn't add up how we can sustain our buying power with the amount of value we produce. Something's gotta give. We can produce more value in-house, but either way our buying power seems destined to decline:

If the dollar were not #1, we wouldn't be able to control the exchange rate and effectively devalue other countries labor and production. BRICS countries are already restructuring this status quo. If we do nothing, we're going to get dumped; which may happen anyway since solving our debt doesn't address international inequities, like the disproportional burden of pollution and climate change on poor countries that our corrupt trade practices are responsible for impoverishing.

If we start producing things here, the startup costs and higher wages that can't be exchanged will immediately drive prices up, effectively popping our buying-power bubble. More jobs is good; but watch wages freeze, as prices soar, until we're relatively low-wage compared to pre-2000 American's ratio of income to buying power. If you look at the cost of buying a house for example, a blue collar wage 40 years ago was basically 4x more potent than it is today. The "American dream" of a yard, fence, 3 bedroom multi-story house is already impossible for most people... just wait until the bubble really pops. Bye-bye middle class.



In my most extreme imagination, this then solidifies the transfer of power (production) to the corporate elite. The top-down corruption, that capitalism requires for profit to function, also enables the wealthier, bigger companies to "grow" and cancerously monopolize smaller competitors. Now here we are. A handful of brands have monopolies on markets. The days when someone could save and invest in themselves as a competitive business enterprise are passing as pressures become insurmountable. But owning the production isn't enough, they want to own the land and the housing too. The days when someone could save and invest in a home are passing too. Already you see companies buying family property to rent out for profit -- Which increases the odds they can elbow out families on the next property, and the next. As the middle class vaporizes, it'll become literal landlords again. Amazon will rent you a 3-d printed studio while you're employed, that they can take away if you don't work overtime. Then they can cap water and power consumption, monitor everyone, etc. They'll own us.

Then again, America is a perfect example that humans don't have the self control to limit our consumption when our creditors and the ultimate creditors, nature and morality, call for it. We probably deserve to be leveled-out.

When I deliver to waterfront properties, I feel especially low-class. So much private space that I may never be able to afford for myself, for reasons out of my control. And when I see footage from friends visiting home countries in South America, I see levels of poverty and modesty that even our homeless would thumb their nose at. It's no wonder they're migrating. It's appalling that Americans can't sympathize with the living conditions of the rest of the world. It's certainly not possible for everyone in the world to live like a wealthy American, there's not enough resources for that. Even if it were distributed evenly it might not be enough to provide middle class standards to everyone.

Capitalists cling to that: "Well wouldn't you rather have a chance at getting rich than everyone being poor with no chance?!?" I think either way odds are stacked.

It's been a weird 250 years. Electricity, the industrial revolution, and America all kicked off at the same time following a science revolution. When technology revolutions happen, population booms follow. The world population has grown significantly and we're all connected to each other now. The collaboration leads to enterprises, like healthcare, which are incredibly complex now.

I bring up the complex, industrial collaboration to illustrate why it is foolish to believe that someone could just stumble into wealth by thinking up some new invention and selling it. The depth of many fields is so deep now; the level of education, collaboration, and industrialization required to truly work on the frontier of science is beyond any person solo'ing. It's very misleading to see individuals like Musk holding more wealth than anyone; when the rockets, satellites, and cars couldn't possibly be made by one person. I don't know what purpose that serves, or why people believe that they too could deserve so much. No one deserves more. It's simple. They're only taking that much because they can, because they own the system. Now they own the government.


Damn adderall.

---

koods said:

Somebody has to stop this holy fuck

---

Icon said:

That's smart to learn Chinese. They lead US universities now in some science fields. We don't even make the top 10 in Engineering. They're influencing our culture too, most recently with tik tok. Being a vessel for culture exporting is the real reason US wants to ban it. Seemed to influence the youth's priorities in the last election cycle. Many students protested Israel, foreign students in the lead.

---

GenesisCorrupted said:

I think Trump is tolerating Elon Musk. Elon Musk is taking the brunt of the attention off of him.

I’m sure Elon Musk enjoys having Trump around kind of because of the same reason.

It’s a mutual symbiotic relationship. Both of them are becoming wealthier by the day. Both of them are enjoying all the laws they’re breaking.

I hope I’m wrong and Trump eventually gets rid of Musk, but I don’t think their relationship could be much better than it is right now.

---

Enlil said:

Electric buses are already commonplace.  I doubt Tesla could do it competitively with the ones that are already out there.  Tesla can't even make a self-driving car that isn't a deathtrap.

---