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Re: Trump/Giuliani lobbying Ukraine for dirt on Biden and his son [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26200049 -

Yes I see the pattern here. It’s like when Trump asked Russia to find Hillary’s emails and then they hack the DNC but instead of blaming the perpetrators for their actions/crimes we blame the victims and the perpetrators get off

Makes perfect sense


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Re: Trump/Giuliani lobbying Ukraine for dirt on Biden and his son [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26200054 -

Citizen X said:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Citizen X said:
Here’s an interview that’s worth the few minutes. The video clip does a better job at explaining the deets
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/09/19/giuliani_freaks_out_on_cnn_cuomo_after_admitting_asking_ukraine_to_investigate_biden_moments_after_denying.html


That was a good interview.  Giuliani surprisingly kicked some ass.


Any opinion on the legality of what the president is doing?


Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Citizen X said:
Is it illegal?
Or just unethical?
Or neither?


We seem to hold back money all the time from corrupt Governments, so I'm guessing (I'm not a lawyer) that is legal.

Biden held back money until the prosecutor who wanted to investigate corruption in his son's company was fired.  That seems highly questionable to me.

Trump held back money because he wanted to know why Biden fired a guy who wanted to stop corruption.  That seems a bit more ethical to me.  :shrug:


And you dodged the question unless you didn’t understand? Do you have an opinion on the legality of what Trump is doing in regards to asking for dirt on his opponent


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Re: Trump/Giuliani lobbying Ukraine for dirt on Biden and his son [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26200062 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Citizen X said:
Is it illegal?
Or just unethical?
Or neither?


We seem to hold back money all the time from corrupt Governments, so I'm guessing (I'm not a lawyer) that is legal.

Biden held back money until the prosecutor who wanted to investigate corruption in his son's company was fired.  That seems highly questionable to me.

Trump held back money because he wanted to know why Biden fired a guy who wanted to stop corruption.  That seems a bit more ethical to me.  :shrug:


Biden wasn’t the president so how would he have the authority to hold back money :strokebeard:


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Re: Trump/Giuliani lobbying Ukraine for dirt on Biden and his son [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26200066 -

Citizen X said:
Kryptos said:
Is it illegal? Almost definitely. This is a pretty clear-cut example of emoluments, i.e. using the office of the presidency for personal gain, especially from foreign leaders.

Is it unethical? I'd say so. It's a bit like having the FBI investigate your political opponents--even if nothing is found, the implication is very specific and damaging.

Is anything going to be done about it? Probably not. Enough US citizens seem pretty cool with illegal and unethical, as long as their side wins.


It’s outrage fatigue. What do we do when we don’t have a government that functions as it rightfully should? Wait for the next election and hope for the best? This is nonsense but what can an average person do?

I don’t know what the right course of action should be for the average person? Does anyone


I've been working on an exit strategy, personally. I left my job at the school after it got shot up. I've been diving back into industry with both feet, because Germany needs chemists with industrial credentials. I also looked into the possibility of going for international IP law, but I don't think that's gonna be quite as fast.

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Citizen X said:
Is it illegal?
Or just unethical?
Or neither?


We seem to hold back money all the time from corrupt Governments, so I'm guessing (I'm not a lawyer) that is legal.

Biden held back money until the prosecutor who wanted to investigate corruption in his son's company was fired.  That seems highly questionable to me.

Trump held back money because he wanted to know why Biden fired a guy who wanted to stop corruption.  That seems a bit more ethical to me.  :shrug:


That kind of ignores the extensive and credible corruption accusations against the prosecutor that was investigating Biden's son.

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Re: Trump/Giuliani lobbying Ukraine for dirt on Biden and his son [Re: Citizen X]
    #26200070 -

Citizen X said:
Yes I see the pattern here. It’s like when Trump asked Russia to find Hillary’s emails and then they hack the DNC but instead of blaming the perpetrators for their actions/crimes we blame the victims and the perpetrators get off

Makes perfect sense


No.  First Russia was accused of hacking the DNC, and THEN Trump asked Russia for Hillary's emails.  Which he never got.

Citizen X said:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Citizen X said:
Is it illegal?
Or just unethical?
Or neither?


We seem to hold back money all the time from corrupt Governments, so I'm guessing (I'm not a lawyer) that is legal.


And you dodged the question unless you didn’t understand? Do you have an opinion on the legality of what Trump is doing in regards to asking for dirt on his opponent


Trump was asking whether corruption was involved in Biden firing the guy who was investigating his son's energy company.  Is it illegal to try and stop corruption?  I hope not.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Trump/Giuliani lobbying Ukraine for dirt on Biden and his son [Re: Kryptos]
    #26200077 -

Kryptos said:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Trump held back money because he wanted to know why Biden fired a guy who wanted to stop corruption.  That seems a bit more ethical to me.  :shrug:


That kind of ignores the extensive and credible corruption accusations against the prosecutor that was investigating Biden's son.


Perhaps.  Can you tell us how it was determined that investigating corruption was corrupt?  Or how else the guy was corrupt?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Trump/Giuliani lobbying Ukraine for dirt on Biden and his son [Re: Citizen X]
    #26200086 -

Citizen X said:
Biden wasn’t the president so how would he have the authority to hold back money :strokebeard:


Ask Biden.  Watch from 52:09 to 53:03 of the video I posted here.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Trump/Giuliani lobbying Ukraine for dirt on Biden and his son [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26200089 -

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/eu-hails-sacking-of-ukraine-s-prosecutor-viktor-shokin-1.2591190

The prosecutor in question was very well known for making sure that his allies got off easy.

His resignation was celebrated throughout the world, not just in Biden's living room.

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Re: Trump/Giuliani lobbying Ukraine for dirt on Biden and his son [Re: Kryptos]
    #26200099 -

All I got from your article is that he was hated for not being a Western puppet.  Can you name any specific corruption?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Trump/Giuliani lobbying Ukraine for dirt on Biden and his son [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 2
    #26200111 -

Being a lawyer? :lol:


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Re: Trump/Giuliani lobbying Ukraine for dirt on Biden and his son [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26200126 -

Biden bad got it. If there’s a crime prosecute

Is Trump breaking the law?


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Re: Trump/Giuliani lobbying Ukraine for dirt on Biden and his son [Re: Mycolorado]
    #26200132 -

Mycolorado said:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
All I got from your article is that he was hated for not being a Western puppet.  Can you name any specific corruption?


Being a lawyer? :lol:


That's actually pretty funny because Viktor Shokin's replacement as General Prosecutor of Ukraine was not even a lawyer.  :lol:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Trump/Giuliani lobbying Ukraine for dirt on Biden and his son [Re: Citizen X]
    #26200135 -

Perhaps.  Cnn is running with Trump pressured the Ukraine President to foe Biden. Seems he may need a third time to catch impeachment.

Also Trump wants to hold a convention on religious persecutuon or some shit instead of go to climate change convention.  Lol, Christains bein persecuted in ?america, what pussies.

Shamanism has been persecuted by thise tards for a looooong time.


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"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found

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Re: Trump/Giuliani lobbying Ukraine for dirt on Biden and his son [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26200144 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
That's actually pretty funny because Viktor Shokin's replacement as General Prosecutor of Ukraine was not even a lawyer.  :lol:


But at least Shokin's replacement had a pretty good repution before he was put into office:

Yuriy Lutsenko
Lutsenko was charged with abuse of office and forgery by Prosecutor General of Ukraine Viktor Pshonka. On 27 February 2012 Lutsenko was sentenced to four years in jail for embezzlement and abuse of office. Lutsenko was held at the Lukyanivska Prison from 26 December 2010 until 7 April 2013.

Just the type of guy the West was looking for.  :smirk:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Trump/Giuliani lobbying Ukraine for dirt on Biden and his son [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26200155 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
All I got from your article is that he was hated for not being a Western puppet.  Can you name any specific corruption?


As the article I linked mentions: He would dismiss anyone that tried to implement anti-corruption reforms, as well as attempted to prosecute an anti-corruption citizen's group.

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Re: Trump/Giuliani lobbying Ukraine for dirt on Biden and his son [Re: Citizen X]
    #26200157 -

Citizen X said:
Biden bad got it. If there’s a crime prosecute

Is Trump breaking the law?


Citizen X said:
Citizen X said:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Citizen X said:
Here’s an interview that’s worth the few minutes. The video clip does a better job at explaining the deets
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/09/19/giuliani_freaks_out_on_cnn_cuomo_after_admitting_asking_ukraine_to_investigate_biden_moments_after_denying.html


That was a good interview.  Giuliani surprisingly kicked some ass.


Any opinion on the legality of what the president is doing?


Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Citizen X said:
Is it illegal?
Or just unethical?
Or neither?


We seem to hold back money all the time from corrupt Governments, so I'm guessing (I'm not a lawyer) that is legal.

Biden held back money until the prosecutor who wanted to investigate corruption in his son's company was fired.  That seems highly questionable to me.

Trump held back money because he wanted to know why Biden fired a guy who wanted to stop corruption.  That seems a bit more ethical to me.  :shrug:


And you dodged the question unless you didn’t understand? Do you have an opinion on the legality of what Trump is doing in regards to asking for dirt on his opponent


I get the feeling you just can’t bring yourself to answer this extremely simple question


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Re: Trump/Giuliani lobbying Ukraine for dirt on Biden and his son [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26200159 -

Democrats aren't gonna do shit; floating smokescreen on Pelosi"s part via pipe dream proposed legislation. The Dems know if they impeach Trump, he will become more electable.(?)

https://www.npr.org/2019/09/20/762594886/pelosi-says-congress-should-pass-new-laws-so-sitting-presidents-can-be-indicted

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi suggested a new law is needed to be able to indict a sitting president for potential lawbreaking while in office.

In an exclusive interview with NPR, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi says she has not changed her mind on pursuing impeachment but is ready to change the law to restrain presidential power and make it clear that a sitting president can, in fact, be indicted.

"I do think that we will have to pass some laws that will have clarity for future presidents. [A] president should be indicted, if he's committed a wrongdoing — any president. There is nothing anyplace that says the president should not be indicted," Pelosi told All Things Considered host Ari Shapiro and NPR congressional correspondent Susan Davis on Friday. "That's something cooked up by the president's lawyers. That's what that is. But so that people will feel 'OK, well, if he — if he does something wrong, [he] should be able to be indicted.' "

The California Democrat said that while it is Justice Department protocol not to pursue any charges against an incumbent — the reason former special counsel Robert Mueller said he couldn't charge President Trump with a crime no matter the outcome of his report — that should be

"The Founders could never suspect that a president would be so abusive of the Constitution of the United States, that the separation of powers would be irrelevant to him and that he would continue, any president would continue, to withhold facts from the Congress, which are part of the constitutional right of inquiry," Pelosi said.

The constitutional recourse for a lawbreaking president per the Constitution is impeachment. Article II, Section 4 instructs that the president "shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors."

But despite the growing chants among Democrats for an impeachment inquiry in the House, Pelosi has remained reluctant about recourse. She fears it could alienate swing voters ahead of next year's elections and imperil moderate Democrats who were critical to her party's taking back the House last November.

Pelosi did not shift her position on impeachment and said Congress would continue to follow "the facts and the law."

The speaker also said Congress should also clarify the limits of when a president can invoke a national emergency.

"The president should not be able to interpret the National Security Act as something that gives him free rein to do anything he wants by his personal declaration that something is an emergency," she said.

Pressure could be ramped up on Pelosi and Democrats to act further amid reports that Trump had an improper conversation with a foreign leader, which a whistleblower within the intelligence community then reported. The conversation is reported to have been urging Ukraine to look into former Vice President Joe Biden — the current Democratic presidential front-runner who could be Trump's 2020 foe — and his son Hunter Biden. Trump has said the conversation was "totally appropriate."

Pelosi called the whistleblower's complaint "very alarming" and said "this is in a different class in terms of [Trump's] behavior."

"This case has a national security piece to it that is very alarming. It is very alarming because the inspector general is appointed by President Trump." She said the law is clear that the information must be submitted to the intelligence committees in Congress. "Right now they are breaking the law" by not providing that information, she said.

In a statement released after the NPR interview, Pelosi went even further, saying the reports raise "grave, urgent concerns for our national security" and that the president and his administration must conduct "our national security and foreign policy in the best interest of the American people, not the President's personal interest."

"If the President has done what has been alleged," she said, "then he is stepping into a dangerous minefield with serious repercussions for his Administration and our democracy."


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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Re: Trump/Giuliani lobbying Ukraine for dirt on Biden and his son [Re: Kryptos]
    #26200172 -

Kryptos said:
As the article I linked mentions: He would dismiss anyone that tried to implement anti-corruption reforms, as well as attempted to prosecute an anti-corruption citizen's group.


Any examples?  Or just "trust me when I say Trump colluded with Russia"?

Another article I previously linked to said:
Quote:
After Shokin was fired, the primary case was “transferred to a different Ukrainian agency, closely aligned with the U.S. Embassy in Kiev, known as the National Anti-Corruption Bureau of Ukraine (NABU).” You may recall that many Embassy officials, and their actions as well, were pro-Hillary Clinton.
It should come as no surprise that NABU closed the case.

So, for a period of time, it looked like the Bidens had escaped scrutiny.



--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Trump/Giuliani lobbying Ukraine for dirt on Biden and his son [Re: Citizen X]
    #26200175 -

Citizen X said:
I get the feeling you just can’t bring yourself to answer this extremely simple question


Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Trump was asking whether corruption was involved in Biden firing the guy who was investigating his son's energy company.  Is it illegal to try and stop corruption?  I hope not.



--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Trump/Giuliani lobbying Ukraine for dirt on Biden and his son [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26200206 -

It's illegal to use office to over power a political foe.  Trump pressured the Ukrainian President to find dirt on Biden.  Apparently Trumps team narced him out.  Soneone blew a whistle.


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"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found

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