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OfflinePhred
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks [Re: Phred]
    #9022904 - 10/03/08 11:52 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Heh. More Biden bullshit:

From http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=OGRlOTQyODNhNmVlYmIwOTAzM2U0ZmZlMGQ4MTFjY2E=

Quote:

Biden is telling absurd lies about Afghanistan tonight.  In particular, he's repeatedly claimed that "we've spent less in Afghanistan in seven years than we spend in a month in Iraq."

He's made that claim, or claims to that effect, repeatedly.  It is, to put it bluntly, a complete Goddamned lie.

According to the Congressional Research Service, spending on the war in Afghanistan since 2001 has been $172 Billion.  Spending in Iraq is, as the Democrats repeatedly mention, a little under $10 Billion a month.

In other words, Biden's number is off by, oh, something like 2000%.  Perhaps Obama's Sub-Committee ought to have held some hearings on Afghanistan after all.




What a maroon.







Phred


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Invisiblepinkfloydms
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks [Re: Phred]
    #9022927 - 10/03/08 11:59 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I still don't see the problem with meeting leaders of other countries to try and talk through some problems we have. It only seems logical to me. Sending one of your fuck ups over to talk with a leader of another country like bush does is disrespectful and basically makes  you look like you don't really give 2 shits about that country.
Leave it up to mccain and he'll be sending the military over to "talk" to people since it seems that's all he can think of. I really wish he would fucking die.


--------------------
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so yeah:
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- and thrice with actual women(all of which were prostitutes)
Best story ever!

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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks [Re: pinkfloydms]
    #9022938 - 10/03/08 12:06 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

pinkfloydms said:
I still don't see the problem with meeting leaders of other countries to try and talk through some problems we have. It only seems logical to me.




tactical oversight


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OfflinePhred
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks [Re: pinkfloydms]
    #9022971 - 10/03/08 12:18 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

I still don't see the problem with meeting leaders of other countries to try and talk through some problems we have.




Neither does Obama. Which is yet another reason why his election would be a disaster for America.



Phred


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Invisiblepinkfloydms
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks [Re: Phred]
    #9022976 - 10/03/08 12:19 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

So instead of trying to hash out problems with other countries, we should just say fuck em like Bush already does, since it's worked so well for us so far? Wow that's fucking stupid.


--------------------
Muppet Said:

so yeah:
- 'sex' five times
- once with a man
- once with a cadaver
- and thrice with actual women(all of which were prostitutes)
Best story ever!

www.panicstream.com :thumbup:


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OfflinePhred
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks [Re: pinkfloydms]
    #9023043 - 10/03/08 12:37 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

As Kissinger points out, you don't initiate discussions with thugs at the presidential level. It sends the wrong message. It gives the thugs an appearance of legitimacy to which they are not entitled.

All diplomats know this. Even Joe freaking Biden knows this, which is why he was so anxious to lie about Obama's incredibly naive stance on this issue. I mean seriously .... this is Diplomacy 101 we're talking about here.

Anyway, for the purpose of this thread, it's not that Obama's position on negotiating with criminals is so stupid (although clearly it is) it's that Joe Biden was bullshitting throughout the entire debate on just about every topic brought up. Oh... plus the fact that the MSM is giving him a complete pass on it, as if we expected anything different. But Sarah Palin lied to the American public about a general's name!





Phred


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OfflineKodath
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks [Re: pinkfloydms]
    #9023063 - 10/03/08 12:45 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

I still don't see the problem with meeting leaders of other countries to try and talk through some problems we have.



I don't either. The idea that you're legitimizing the actions of a leader just by talking to him about issues of concern is stupid. Demanding that they agree with your position before you even talk to them again is even more stupid. Or maybe childish is a better word.

If all countries followed that policy there'd be a lot more wars going on now.


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks [Re: Phred]
    #9023090 - 10/03/08 12:51 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I know Fox news was just talking about her name mistake!

Bastards! No one is talking about Bidens lies!


Could you imagine if Palin had said this?

Biden: “The idea he [Cheney] doesn’t realize that Article I of the Constitution defines the role of the vice president of the United States, that’s the Executive Branch. He works in the Executive Branch. He should understand that. Everyone should understand that.”


The MSM would be asking McCain to drop her off the ticket!


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks [Re: Kodath]
    #9023100 - 10/03/08 12:53 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

SEN. OBAMA: Now, understand what this means, "without preconditions." It doesn't mean that you invite them over for tea one day. What it means is that we don't do what we've been doing, which is to say until you agree to do exactly what we say, we won't have direct contacts with you. There's a difference between preconditions and preparation. Of course we've got to do preparation, starting with low-level diplomatic talks, and it may not work because Iran is a rogue regime.

[...]

SEN. OBAMA: Look, I mean, Senator — Senator McCain keeps on using this example that suddenly the president would just meet with somebody without doing any preparation, without having low-level talks. Nobody's been talking about that, and Senator McCain knows it.

This is a mischaracterization of my position




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OfflinePhred
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Phred]
    #9023741 - 10/03/08 03:44 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Heh. Man, I'm not ashamed to admit Ace cracks me up. I wish I had the same way with words he does. Please, everybody visit his blog multiple times each day and click on all his sponsor links so he can make a bit of money. Comedy gold, I tell ya.

Quote:

Noted Foreign Policy Genius, With 36 Years of Expertise, Thinks We Kicked Hezbollah out of Lebanon, Despite the Fact They Periodically Hold the Government Hostage and Take Over Opposition TV Stations

Unbelievably awful gaffe. Not ticky-tack. Not "arguably wrong."

Flat out, ludicrously wrong, with no way on earth to rescue it by postulating "Oh, I meant x."

But remember: Sarah Palin was "loose with the facts" and showed only "a superficial talking-point understanding of national issues."

Because this error is so deadly, the media will utterly refuse to report it. If they can't spin it -- and they can't spin this -- they simply embargo it.

And he lied about coal.

Oh? And that jaw-dropping claim (which he repeated for emphasis) that we spent more in three weeks in Iraq than in seven years in Afghanistan? Was this anything a rational human being could possibly believe was even plausibly close to accurate?

And he lied, and lied, and lied, and erred, and erred, and erred, and gaffed, and gaffed, and gaffed.

I am dumfounded at that Iraq/Afghanistan one. It is so obviously crank -- laughable on its face. How on earth could he have asserted this as true, and then repeated it -- "Let me say that again so it sinks in"? How on earth could anyone with a brain possibly believe this?

Consider how borderline retarded you'd have to be to even consider this to be true.

Think about it.

This guy is not "a blowhard." He is a fucking moron.

Ready to step in and be president? Only so long as the most taxing question a president faces during the day is "What color are oranges?"




http://ace.mu.nu/archives/274811.php

Go there now. Then come back here and go there again, just for fun.





Phred


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OfflinePhred
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Phred]
    #9023789 - 10/03/08 03:53 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Okay... the Lebanon blunder was so horrifically bad it deserves its own post. From Allahpundit at Hotair:

Quote:

Rick Moran of Right Wing Nut House has followed the wars in Lebanon more closely than most bloggers, and Joe Biden’s assertion that the US and France “kicked Hezbollah out of Lebanon” has him gasping for breath.  Calling it “completely insane”, Rick deconstructs the rest of the answer on this question to seriously challenge whatever credentials Biden claims on foreign policy.  First, here’s Biden’s answer in its entirety, emphases mine:

Quote:

BIDEN: Gwen, no one in the United States Senate has been a better friend to Israel than Joe Biden. I would have never, ever joined this ticket were I not absolutely sure Barack Obama shared my passion.  But you asked a question about whether or not this administration’s policy had made sense or something to that effect. It has been an abject failure, this administration’s policy.  In fairness to Secretary Rice, she’s trying to turn it around now in the seventh or eighth year.

Here’s what the president said when we said no. He insisted on elections on the West Bank, when I said, and others said, and Barack Obama said, “Big mistake. Hamas will win. You’ll legitimize them.” What happened? Hamas won.  When we kicked — along with France, we kicked Hezbollah out of Lebanon, I said and Barack said, “Move NATO forces in there. Fill the vacuum, because if you don’t know — if you don’t, Hezbollah will control it.”

Now what’s happened? Hezbollah is a legitimate part of the government in the country immediately to the north of Israel.  The fact of the matter is, the policy of this administration has been an abject failure.  And speaking of freedom being on the march, the only thing on the march is Iran. It’s closer to a bomb. Its proxies now have a major stake in Lebanon, as well as in the Gaza Strip with Hamas.

We will change this policy with thoughtful, real, live diplomacy that understands that you must back Israel in letting them negotiate, support their negotiation, and stand with them, not insist on policies like this administration has.




Rick couldn’t believe his ears:

Quote:

Of course, no one “threw Hezb’allah out of Lebanon.” They have been there all along as the expert above notes. The Lebanese people threw the Syrians out of Lebanon, with no help from liberal Democrats like Biden and Obama, but with a great big behind the scenes lift from France and the US. It was we who put the bug in King Abdullah’s ear to lobby the Syrians to get while the going was good as the French worked directly on Baby Assad. The combination worked wonderfully and the Syrians left in a hurry – after a couple of million Lebanese took to the streets in a breathtaking show of defiance to tyranny and love of freedom.

Joe Biden – or any rational human being on this planet anyway – never recommended that NATO be dispatched to “fill the vacuum.” It is a lie. If it had been proposed. Colin Powell would have been laughed out of the room – something we should do to Biden at this point because he compounded his gaffe by evidently believing that not having NATO as a buffer between Israel and Hezb’allah – an absolute impossibility mind you – led to the ascension of Hezb’allah in Lebanon as a political power.

Where has Biden been for the last 20 years – at least since the Taif Accords were signed in 1989 which gave Hezb’allah a free hand in the southern part of the country and then pressuring the Lebanese government to formally designate them as “the resistance” to Israel? Hezb’allah’s rise is directly related to Iran’s funding of their proxy to the tune of around $250 million a year.




Like Rick, I cannot recall anyone seriously suggesting that NATO occupy the sub-Litani region of Lebanon.  NATO already found itself stretched to meet its commitments in Afghanistan, although Germany and Italy did find troops to contribute to the beefed-up presence in UNIFIL, the same multinational force that had sat idle while Hezbollah armed itself after the Israeli withdrawal from the region a few years ago — and then turned around and did the same thing after the Israeli withdrawal in 2006.

Some people assumed that Biden meant that the US and France kicked Syria out of Lebanon, but Michael Totten — who has spent considerable time in Lebanon — doesn’t buy that explanation, either:

Quote:

And did Biden and Senator Barack Obama really say NATO troops should be sent into Lebanon? When did they say that? Why would they say that? They certainly didn’t say it because NATO needed to prevent Hezbollah from returning–since Hezbollah never went anywhere.

I tried to chalk this one up as just the latest of Biden’s colorful gaffes. Did he mean to say “we kicked Syria out of Lebanon?” But that wouldn’t make any more sense. First of all, the Lebanese kicked Syria out of Lebanon. Not the United States, and not France. But he clearly meant to say Hezbollah, not Syria, because he correctly notes just a few sentences later that Hezbollah is part of Lebanon’s government. He wasn’t talking about Syria. He was talking about Hezbollah all the way through, at the beginning, in the middle, and at the end of his outlandish assertion.




And all of this points out the folly of presidential-level meetings with the leadership of Iran, without the precondition of them ending their support for the terrorist group Hezbollah.  Iran funds Hezbollah and their terrorist activities, which Biden rightly decries.  But if Biden doesn’t want Hezbollah to be a “legitimate part” of the Lebanese government for that reason, why would he legitimize their sponsors with presidential-level meetings without first insisting on the end of that support?

It’s a completely incoherent policy as well as a terrible misreading of history and the present status of the region. And if Biden can’t get this right, what does that say about his running mate, who chose Biden to fill the gaps in his own foreign-policy portfolio?




And the MSM is all over this like a pack of wolverines.... not. You could knock me over with a feather. Seriously.






Phred


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks [Re: Phred]
    #9023812 - 10/03/08 04:01 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
Quote:

I still don't see the problem with meeting leaders of other countries to try and talk through some problems we have.




Neither does Obama. Which is yet another reason why his election would be a disaster for America.



Phred





Oh please;


Let me ask you this.


Seriously now, do you not see the incredible scourge that is cocaine smuggling submarines?  They are coming to america in great fleets of terror and wrath.


Biden is the only one who stopped it, he's the one who saved america, he's the reason N. America isn't a ghost land now.





wasn't it already illegal to smuggle drugs in submarines?


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks [Re: johnm214]
    #9023889 - 10/03/08 04:19 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
Quote:

Phred said:
Quote:

I still don't see the problem with meeting leaders of other countries to try and talk through some problems we have.




Neither does Obama. Which is yet another reason why his election would be a disaster for America.



Phred





Oh please;


Let me ask you this.


Seriously now, do you not see the incredible scourge that is cocaine smuggling submarines?  They are coming to america in great fleets of terror and wrath.


Biden is the only one who stopped it, he's the one who saved america, he's the reason N. America isn't a ghost land now.





wasn't it already illegal to smuggle drugs in submarines?





pardon me... I believe your standing on my pen0r


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #9024013 - 10/03/08 04:46 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

National Review Online is starting to have a little fun with SloJo.
http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ZTVhMThlNjRkZGFlMmUwOWFkNDZkZjk0MzBiY2JiYmY=

One good one

Quote:

ARMS CONTROL TREATY: Biden: "Number two, with regard to arms control and weapons, nuclear weapons require a nuclear arms control regime. John McCain voted against a Comprehensive Nuclear-Test-Ban Treaty that every Republican has supported."

I have no idea where Biden gets this "every Republican has supported" claim, as 49 other Republican senators voted 'no' with McCain.




There's more at the link.  Very fun stuff.


--------------------


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OfflinePhred
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Phred]
    #9024033 - 10/03/08 04:48 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Well, we started with 14 right off the bat. Quite a few more have been added to this thread, and I've spoken of at least one more (his disastrous mangling of what the Constitution has to say about the VP job) in other threads and we're still not even 24 hours from the end of the debate. How many more will we discover? This truly is the gift that keeps on giving, folks. Here's a few more...


Quote:

VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN ACT: Biden's statement that McCain voted against the Violence Against Women Act is accurate. But as Robert Byers notes, the Supreme Court ruled in United States v. Morrison, the Court ruled that much of Biden's law was an unconstitutional power grab by Congress of rights reserved to the states. Nobody voted against the WAWA because they support violence against women; they objected over constiutional concerns that a Supreme Court majority validated.





Quote:

RESTAURANT: "Look, all you have to do is go down Union Street with me in Wilmington or go to Katie's Restaurant or walk into Home Depot with me where I spend a lot of time and you ask anybody in there whether or not the economic and foreign policy of this administration has made them better off in the last eight years."

According to this Delaware site, Katie's Restaurant is no longer in business; locals remember it on Union Street 25 to 30 years ago.




Quote:

ARMS CONTROL TREATY: Biden: "Number two, with regard to arms control and weapons, nuclear weapons require a nuclear arms control regime. John McCain voted against a Comprehensive Nuclear-Test-Ban Treaty that every Republican has supported."

I have no idea where Biden gets this "every Republican has supported" claim, as 49 other Republican senators voted 'no' with McCain.

Quote:

When the roll was finally called on October 13, the resolution to ratify the CTBT (including the six safeguards that Daschle had submitted as an amendment) was defeated by a 51-48 vote with one abstention. (See the voting record.) Forty-four Democrats voted for ratification as did four Republicans: John Chafee (R-RI), James Jeffords (R-VT), Gordon Smith (R-OR) and Arlen Specter (R-PA). Fifty Republican senators and one independent (Robert Smith of New Hampshire) voted against ratification, and Senator Robert Byrd (D-WV) voted "present." The treaty fell 19 votes short of achieving the necessary two-thirds majority necessary for ratification.







Quote:

WEST BANK ELECTIONS: Biden: President Bush insisted on elections in the West Bank, when I said, and others said, and Barack Obama said, 'Big mistake. Hamas will win. You'll legitimize them.'"

The Washington Post's Glenn Kessler notes that "Obama had been a senator for only a few days when the election took place, but if he made such statements, they did not appear in news reports or transcripts that are contained in the Nexis or Factiva databases."




Quote:

PAKISTANI WEAPONS: "Pakistan already has nuclear weapons. Pakistan already has deployed nuclear weapons. Pakistan's weapons can already hit Israel and the Mediterranean."

I won't quite chalk this up as a lie/hallucination, but Biden is on shaky ground here. (See below.) The distance between Israel and Pakistan is 2,085 miles, or 3355 kilometers. The longest-range existing strategic missile in the Pakistani arsenal has a range of 3000 kilometers, but it might have longer range with a lighter payload. (But how much can you lighten a nuclear payload?) They are working on developing longer-range missiles; maybe Biden knows of some development that public sources do not yet know about. Theoretically, the Pakistanis could put the weapon on a boat and then sail it to the target, but by that standard, any site on a coast in the world is within their range.

ANOTHER UPDATE: This site indicates that the top range of Pakistani missile that can carry a nuclear warhead is 1000 miles. By being off by 1,000 or so, I'm now upgrading this to full lie/error/hallucination status.



http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ZTVhMThlNjRkZGFlMmUwOWFkNDZkZjk0MzBiY2JiYmY=

So yeah.... the Chattering Classes in the MSM are all "Oh, Palin smiled and winked her way into a close tie, but Biden KILLED on the facts, especially on his specialty, foreign affairs."

Uh huh. It's easy to "kill" when you get to generate your own version of reality out of thin air and never get called on it by the lapdogs of the MSM.





Phred


***edit*** I see zappa saw the same article I did.


--------------------


Edited by Phred (10/03/08 04:50 PM)


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Phred]
    #9024072 - 10/03/08 04:55 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

In re Hamas:  They are not a West Bank force, they are a Gaza force.  They aren't shit in the West Bank.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: zappaisgod]
    #9024107 - 10/03/08 05:00 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah, that too.



Phred


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Phred]
    #9024385 - 10/03/08 05:57 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Palin's script was good. I liked how she deliberately and proudly ignored Gwen Ifil's questions. I also liked the part where she got the general in Afghanistan's name wrong. Ooh, ooh, but my absolute favorite part was when she said she agreed with Cheney and wants the powers of the Vice President expanded which, as Joe pointed out, is completely unconstitutional. Biden was intelligent, on message, prepared to answer any of the moderator's questions, and overall blew Palin out of the water. It was just so painfully obvious that she had no idea what she was talking about the whole debate. She'd answer a question on health care with a script about energy, she'd answer a question about Iraq with an answer about taxes. It was absurd and laughable. This woman is in no way qualified to hold high office.


--------------------
Make my Funk the P Funk, I wants to get Funked up



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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #9024540 - 10/03/08 06:28 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

He was prepared with a fairly extensive list of fake facts, some of which are chronicled above.  It's pretty easy when you make shit up, like us kicking Hezbollah out of Lebanon.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #9025085 - 10/03/08 08:11 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Gastronomicus, you haven't actually read this thread yet, have you?

Biden made at least 20 total bullshit statements - including screwing up the whole Constitutional description of the VP's duties just about as badly as it could possibly be screwed up - and your best shot is that Palin mispronounced the name of a general serving in Afghanistan?

Good thing you're so easily comforted, I guess.




Phred


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