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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
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Re: Rudy Giuliani Proposes `Biggest Tax Cut' in U.S. History :thumbup: [Re: art]
#7864534 - 01/11/08 11:22 AM (16 years, 21 days ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (02/13/21 09:28 AM)
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers



Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
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Last seen: 5 months, 23 days
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Re: Rudy Giuliani Proposes `Biggest Tax Cut' in U.S. History :thumbup: [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
#7864582 - 01/11/08 11:30 AM (16 years, 21 days ago) |
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The Religious Right is only one wing of the Republican party, and not a majority by any means.
I wish it was that easy.
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
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Re: Rudy Giuliani Proposes `Biggest Tax Cut' in U.S. History :thumbup: [Re: Madtowntripper]
#7864612 - 01/11/08 11:36 AM (16 years, 21 days ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (02/13/21 09:29 AM)
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art
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/05
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Re: Rudy Giuliani Proposes `Biggest Tax Cut' in U.S. History :thumbup: [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
#7864629 - 01/11/08 11:39 AM (16 years, 21 days ago) |
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Quote:
That is a completely valid concern being as in the early part of U.S. history, when there was basically no government oversight of business, wealthy industrialists enslaved even white children (sometimes rounded up on the streets of slums in European capitals) to work in horrendous conditions in their factories.
John Jacques Rousseau said, "I prefer liberty with danger than peace with slavery." Even though environmental concerns are huge to me (which ties to your point), It's a risk with Paul I'd be willing to take. If he's serious about cutting off foreign "aid" to foreign governments, then it might hasten the day where they work out a society that the majority want instead of U.S. arms suppressing the will of the majority, Of course, another extremely repressive & self-serving world power (like China) could very well step to fill the role of their #1 arms dealer, but at least then I would be able to know my tax dollars aren't providing arms to butcher & oppress peasants & workers throughout the world; or starting wars to secure resources & cheap labor.
I see your point. I just feel that if we were to live in a libertarian society things would get even worse than the gilded age. I think that we need restrictions on business now more than ever. Can you imagine what a recession like the 1857, or 1893 recessions would be like today? I don't have any reason to think that they would be any worse but I can't help but think so. Do you think that we would live to see 2050 with out regulation on environmental issues?
it is sad that people let organized religion completely blind them.
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy


Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: Rudy Giuliani Proposes `Biggest Tax Cut' in U.S. History :thumbup: [Re: art]
#7864781 - 01/11/08 12:21 PM (16 years, 21 days ago) |
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Art, have you ever heard Paul speak on environmental issues?
The problem is, with government regulations, they make certain levels of pollution in the air water, food and soil allowed.
We can't sue because the levels are legal.
With that removed, we could, under property right laws, sue any company polluting our air, water and soil.
No body does, because the current government protects low level polluters under our laws. Low level shmo level the toxins build up and become dangerous. A lot of toxins, especially metals, stay in the body.
Thats part one of the problem with legalizing pollution through regulation.
Our government also subsidizes companies that cause harm to the environment, making it much more difficult for greener companies to compete with them and enter the market place.
Paul wants those subsidies to stop, to make it easier for greener company's and alternative energy suppliers to enter the market place and take over.
He's got it right.
What are we, lame??? We as consumers can choose who we buy products from. We have the power right there to turn things around. Do Americans that bitch about the environment do that? To few to make any real difference.
Why? They either A can't afford it because non subsidized companies have to charge more or B expect the government to take care of it. Why? Because they have bought into the nanny state mentality.
America needs a hard dose of some Libertarian values before we end up completely like Communists with invisible fences.
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers



Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 5 months, 23 days
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Re: Rudy Giuliani Proposes `Biggest Tax Cut' in U.S. History :thumbup: [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
#7865088 - 01/11/08 01:38 PM (16 years, 21 days ago) |
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Quote:
EntheogenicPeace said: Do not an overwhelming majority of those who vote GOP in presidential races (& others, too) describe themselves both as 'Christians' & 'social conservatives'? I'm sure plenty don't, but I thought i've seen countless polls & surveys confirming as much (especially on the first one).
No, this is just wrong.
An overwhelming percentage of BOTH PARTIES describe themselves as Christian. Upwards of 70% for both parties.
Not just Republicans.
The people you are thinking of are the Evangelicals, who are the very vocal Right-Wing Christians who dump pigs blood on women outside abortion clinics and throw rocks at gay people in the street.
They make up a minority of the Republican party, but have been allowed to hijack it for quite awhile.
I'm a Democrat, but am happy to see that the rest of the Republican party is beginning to take the reins back from these jack-asses.
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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Floop
Stranger

Registered: 11/28/06
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Re: Rudy Giuliani Proposes `Biggest Tax Cut' in U.S. History :thumbup: [Re: Madtowntripper]
#7865265 - 01/11/08 02:17 PM (16 years, 21 days ago) |
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I live in western Europe so Im not as knowledgeable when it comes to American politics.
But it's interesting to see how different people view the US now compared to the 90s. At that time everyone was saying the US was a decade ahead of western Europe. The US was THE major political, economic and military power of the world. But now the income gap in the US is huge, and poverty seems to be relatively widespread compared to where I live. And the US is no longer the innovative country it used to be. For example, of all the hightech and expensive stuff I own, from my tv to my mp3-player, to my car, my camera etc nothing is made in America or by American companies. Except maybe my Pentium processor and the windows on my computer. Thats all.
And that's a problem for the US, they need to pruduce and export more instead of keeping spending too much money. Wealth is being created out of nothing. The US is fucked if the dollar collapses.
But instead of curbing spending there has been an increase of spending. Instead of keeping the interest rates level or increasing them they are getting lower. Instead of subsidising research into new ways of producing energy the US decides to spend hundreds of billions on the war in Iraq.
And here you have a canditate who wants to cut taxes, while from the plans I read about on his website to curb spending it doesn't really seem enough even without tax cuts.
It's incomprehensible to me.
-------------------- "The finest emotion of which we are capable is the mystic emotion. Herein lies the germ of all art and all true science. Anyone to whom this feeling is alien, who is no longer capable of wonderment and lives in a state of fear is a dead man. To know that what is impenatrable for us really exists and manifests itself as the highest wisdom and the most radiant beauty, whose gross forms alone are intelligible to our poor faculties - this knowledge, this feeling ... that is the core of the true religious sent iment. In this sense, and in this sense alone, I rank myself amoung profoundly religious men." -Albert Einstein
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers



Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 5 months, 23 days
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Re: Rudy Giuliani Proposes `Biggest Tax Cut' in U.S. History :thumbup: [Re: Floop]
#7865289 - 01/11/08 02:24 PM (16 years, 21 days ago) |
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It doesn't make sense to alot of people here too.
I think people in Europe tend to think of America as a big monolithic entity, where all the people are the same.
But this country is pretty heavily divided. The last few National Elections have been 51-49 types of deals.
Just know that no matter which policy you don't like, half the American public hates it as well.
Its a politically divided country, at the moment.
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Rudy Giuliani Proposes `Biggest Tax Cut' in U.S. History :thumbup: [Re: Madtowntripper]
#7865369 - 01/11/08 02:42 PM (16 years, 21 days ago) |
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we need a uniter, not a divider
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Floop
Stranger

Registered: 11/28/06
Posts: 179
Last seen: 14 years, 10 months
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Re: Rudy Giuliani Proposes `Biggest Tax Cut' in U.S. History :thumbup: [Re: Madtowntripper]
#7865392 - 01/11/08 02:48 PM (16 years, 21 days ago) |
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There are many people who have very simplistic views. So yea, there are people who believe certain stereotypes to be true. And actually dislike Americans on those beliefs. They do the same with muslims, or Chinese people etc.
But most people with some intelligence know the US is a highly diverse country 
And the Americans that I've actually met don't fit into the general stereotype at all. Most were really friendly people that were really curious as to how other societies function and were pleased to find out that we don't differ all that much. Not arrogant idiots (although some were really fat ).
-------------------- "The finest emotion of which we are capable is the mystic emotion. Herein lies the germ of all art and all true science. Anyone to whom this feeling is alien, who is no longer capable of wonderment and lives in a state of fear is a dead man. To know that what is impenatrable for us really exists and manifests itself as the highest wisdom and the most radiant beauty, whose gross forms alone are intelligible to our poor faculties - this knowledge, this feeling ... that is the core of the true religious sent iment. In this sense, and in this sense alone, I rank myself amoung profoundly religious men." -Albert Einstein
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers



Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 5 months, 23 days
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Re: Rudy Giuliani Proposes `Biggest Tax Cut' in U.S. History :thumbup: [Re: Floop]
#7865410 - 01/11/08 02:51 PM (16 years, 21 days ago) |
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Its like that with every country and type of people!
I'm very strongly against Israel, but I have Israeli friends, even Zionist ones, that I care about very deeply.
I'm anti illegal immigrant, but I have hard-working friends who are illegals that I care about...
Its pretty easy to dislike a country, but its alot harder to dislike a person...
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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Floop
Stranger

Registered: 11/28/06
Posts: 179
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Re: Rudy Giuliani Proposes `Biggest Tax Cut' in U.S. History :thumbup: [Re: Madtowntripper]
#7865483 - 01/11/08 03:12 PM (16 years, 21 days ago) |
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Yes it is indeed.
I try to keep in mind that most people just want to live a good, happy life by doing what they think what's right. That way I won't get to judgmental when it comes to individuals.
-------------------- "The finest emotion of which we are capable is the mystic emotion. Herein lies the germ of all art and all true science. Anyone to whom this feeling is alien, who is no longer capable of wonderment and lives in a state of fear is a dead man. To know that what is impenatrable for us really exists and manifests itself as the highest wisdom and the most radiant beauty, whose gross forms alone are intelligible to our poor faculties - this knowledge, this feeling ... that is the core of the true religious sent iment. In this sense, and in this sense alone, I rank myself amoung profoundly religious men." -Albert Einstein
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Coaster
Baʿal



Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 33,501
Loc: Deep in the Valley
Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
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Re: Rudy Giuliani Proposes `Biggest Tax Cut' in U.S. History :thumbup: [Re: Floop]
#7865666 - 01/11/08 04:03 PM (16 years, 21 days ago) |
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dam im learning a lot from gettingjiggywitit paul is fucking genious
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art
Stranger
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Re: Rudy Giuliani Proposes `Biggest Tax Cut' in U.S. History :thumbup: [Re: Floop]
#7865701 - 01/11/08 04:12 PM (16 years, 21 days ago) |
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I don't really know that much about Ron Paul's environmental stances. So I am sorry if I am talking out of my ass, but first of all I disagree with how things are done right now. I disagree with the large subsidies for the big corporations, and i think that the republican tax cuts are just going to worsen that problem.
So without some sort of regulation how exactly would one prevent companies for hurting the environment? I see your point of regulation allowing low levels of environmental degradation but I don't quit see the alternative. I think the best way to curb environmental damage is by creating a system of incentives to improve environmental quality. I can't think of the specific name of the economic system but I think it is important to have a nice balance. Yes we are that lame. I do not have any faith that people will choose companies that are more responsible than others. People are lazy, selfish, and disgusting.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs




Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
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Re: Rudy Giuliani Proposes `Biggest Tax Cut' in U.S. History :thumbup: [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
#7865885 - 01/11/08 04:47 PM (16 years, 21 days ago) |
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Quote:
EntheogenicPeace said: Do not an overwhelming majority of those who vote GOP in presidential races (& others, too) describe themselves both as 'Christians' & 'social conservatives'? I'm sure plenty don't, but I thought i've seen countless polls & surveys confirming as much (especially on the first one).
The polls also show that an overwhelming amount of democrats are Christians.
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers



Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 5 months, 23 days
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Re: Rudy Giuliani Proposes `Biggest Tax Cut' in U.S. History :thumbup: [Re: Redstorm]
#7865899 - 01/11/08 04:50 PM (16 years, 21 days ago) |
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Quote:
Madtowntripper said:
An overwhelming percentage of BOTH PARTIES describe themselves as Christian. Upwards of 70% for both parties.
Not just Republicans.
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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Coaster
Baʿal



Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 33,501
Loc: Deep in the Valley
Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
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Re: Rudy Giuliani Proposes `Biggest Tax Cut' in U.S. History :thumbup: [Re: Madtowntripper]
#7865979 - 01/11/08 05:06 PM (16 years, 21 days ago) |
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everybody worships that water walking jew didnt ya no
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
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Re: Rudy Giuliani Proposes `Biggest Tax Cut' in U.S. History :thumbup: [Re: Madtowntripper]
#7866028 - 01/11/08 05:15 PM (16 years, 21 days ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (02/13/21 09:29 AM)
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Rudy Giuliani Proposes `Biggest Tax Cut' in U.S. History :thumbup: [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
#7866147 - 01/11/08 05:36 PM (16 years, 21 days ago) |
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Quote:
EntheogenicPeace said: I actually greatly admire the historic figure of Jesus Christ & his philosophical teachings; it is those who follow an invented European religion based on foundations completely different from Jesus' teachings, & use their false religion to justify war, racism, militarism, colonialism, imperialism, slavery & economic exploitation, that I loathe. Jesus was a socialist & a humanist, after all, & so were his earliest followers until Rome re-invented him & his teachings in the early 4th century under Constantine (& maybe some other did before that, too).
Jesus seemed like a pretty cool guy. He hung out with prostitutes & I've read that the oils they used for massaging maybe came from cannabis & had THC in them. It's people like Jerry Falwell, George W. Bush, Sean Hannity & Ronald Reagan (& millions of others) who give the real Jesus a bad name.
I agree 
I'm sick of fuckers blaming the religion and the people on Jesus and the bible. Though the bible is incredibly contradictory and at times places god in a bad light and makes him to be a vengeful, jelous, person (which I reject) it seems people forget all the good that is in this book, and especially in its record of Jesus' teachings.
Most of the bullshit in the bible is from the old testament anyways... the new testament of the christian bible is a pretty cool deal
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs




Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
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Re: Rudy Giuliani Proposes `Biggest Tax Cut' in U.S. History :thumbup: [Re: Madtowntripper]
#7866667 - 01/11/08 08:19 PM (16 years, 21 days ago) |
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Quote:
Madtowntripper said:
Quote:
Madtowntripper said:
An overwhelming percentage of BOTH PARTIES describe themselves as Christian. Upwards of 70% for both parties.
Not just Republicans.
Yeah, I didn't get that far in the thread before I made that post.
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