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Trump/Giuliani lobbying Ukraine for dirt on Biden and his son * 1
    #26199795 -

So the Washington Post broke a story that Trump pressured the Ukrainian President about 8 times for their government to investigate his opponent and his son

“President Trump in a July phone call repeatedly pressured the president of Ukraine to investigate Joe Biden ’s son, according to people familiar with the matter, urging Volodymyr Zelensky about eight times to work with Rudy Giuliani on a probe that could hamper Mr. Trump’s potential 2020 opponent.

“He told him that he should work with [Mr. Giuliani] on Biden, and that people in Washington wanted to know” if his lawyer’s assertions that Mr. Biden acted improperly as vice president were true, one of the people said. Mr. Giuliani has suggested Mr. Biden’s pressure on Ukraine to fight corruption had to do with an investigation of a gas company for which his son was a director. A Ukrainian official this year said he had no evidence of wrongdoing by Mr. Biden or his son, Hunter Biden.”
https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-defends-conversation-with-ukraine-leader-11568993176

It’s not the first time Trump asked for help in getting dirt on his political opponent so nothing new there.

Is it illegal? Idk
Or just unethical
Or neither?


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Re: Trump/Giuliani lobbying Ukraine for dirt on Biden and his son [Re: Citizen X] * 1
    #26199808 -

Rumors indicate both sides are screwy.  Although I wonder about the statement "bidens prssure on ukraine to fight corruption" as Ukraine is very corrupt.


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"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found

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Re: Trump/Giuliani lobbying Ukraine for dirt on Biden and his son [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26199818 -

I’ll be the first one to admit outrage fatigue.

From the article
A Ukrainian official this year said he had no evidence of wrongdoing by Mr. Biden or his son, Hunter Biden.”

Who was the official?

Here’s an interview that’s worth the few minutes. The video clip does a better job at explaining the deets
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/09/19/giuliani_freaks_out_on_cnn_cuomo_after_admitting_asking_ukraine_to_investigate_biden_moments_after_denying.html


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Re: Trump/Giuliani lobbying Ukraine for dirt on Biden and his son [Re: Citizen X]
    #26199825 -

So much of corruption is from the shortcomings of those involved.


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"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found

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Re: Trump/Giuliani lobbying Ukraine for dirt on Biden and his son [Re: Morel Guy] * 1
    #26199833 -

This is pretty nuts even for him. When he said The Russians should investigate Hillary Clinton people said he was joking and now it's a very erratic pattern tzhaars dangerous. This is just another thing that I guarentee people will defend and twist as much as possible. I'm glad you're judging him case by case now


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Etched in the sands of time in the shroomery and ever so beloved and deeply missed by many :heart:

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Re: Trump/Giuliani lobbying Ukraine for dirt on Biden and his son [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26199845 -

Morel Guy said:
So much of corruption is from the shortcomings of those involved.


Are you implying this is Biden’s fault?


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Re: Trump/Giuliani lobbying Ukraine for dirt on Biden and his son [Re: Citizen X] * 1
    #26199854 -

I don't know enough but it looks bad from what Little I know, for all.

What was Biden's son doing with a Ukraine power company?  Why was this company investigated?  What's Trumps bit?

Why is everyone obsessed with Ukraine and Russia?  Cause there's money and corription/opportunity in conflict?


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"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found

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Re: Trump/Giuliani lobbying Ukraine for dirt on Biden and his son [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26199858 -

Shit I don’t know


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Re: Trump/Giuliani lobbying Ukraine for dirt on Biden and his son [Re: Citizen X]
    #26199860 -

It’s just a pattern from the president is what I see. This was already investigated by Ukraine so I’m not sure what the end game is here


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Re: Trump/Giuliani lobbying Ukraine for dirt on Biden and his son [Re: Citizen X]
    #26199876 -

To believe in moral heros is a fools game.


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"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found

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Re: Trump/Giuliani lobbying Ukraine for dirt on Biden and his son [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26199947 -

You’re confusing me, I don’t trust none of them

I don’t believe none of them.

They are the elite. I’m just a regular person. I have zero in common with them and that’s where I stand.

Morel Guy said:
To believe in moral heros is a fools game.


Heroes :rofl2:

That’s a good one


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Re: Trump/Giuliani lobbying Ukraine for dirt on Biden and his son [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26199951 -

Morel Guy said:
To believe in moral heros is a fools game.


I would love for the truth to come out. The reason for the thread was, is this an ethical way to derive the truth?


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Re: Trump/Giuliani lobbying Ukraine for dirt on Biden and his son [Re: Citizen X] * 1
    #26199967 -

Is it illegal? Almost definitely. This is a pretty clear-cut example of emoluments, i.e. using the office of the presidency for personal gain, especially from foreign leaders.

Is it unethical? I'd say so. It's a bit like having the FBI investigate your political opponents--even if nothing is found, the implication is very specific and damaging.

Is anything going to be done about it? Probably not. Enough US citizens seem pretty cool with illegal and unethical, as long as their side wins.

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Re: Trump/Giuliani lobbying Ukraine for dirt on Biden and his son [Re: Citizen X]
    #26199968 -

We just sit and wait.

I doubt their elite or smart enough for their own good.  The karma (unanalyzed aspects of their existence) must be terrible.

We live in a world that the less you do, the better.


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"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found

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Re: Trump/Giuliani lobbying Ukraine for dirt on Biden and his son [Re: Kryptos]
    #26200001 -

Kryptos said:
Is it illegal? Almost definitely. This is a pretty clear-cut example of emoluments, i.e. using the office of the presidency for personal gain, especially from foreign leaders.

Is it unethical? I'd say so. It's a bit like having the FBI investigate your political opponents--even if nothing is found, the implication is very specific and damaging.

Is anything going to be done about it? Probably not. Enough US citizens seem pretty cool with illegal and unethical, as long as their side wins.


It’s outrage fatigue. What do we do when we don’t have a government that functions as it rightfully should? Wait for the next election and hope for the best? This is nonsense but what can an average person do?

I don’t know what the right course of action should be for the average person? Does anyone


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Re: Trump/Giuliani lobbying Ukraine for dirt on Biden and his son [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26200004 -

Morel Guy said:
We just sit and wait.

I doubt their elite or smart enough for their own good.  The karma (unanalyzed aspects of their existence) must be terrible.

We live in a world that the less you do, the better.


That just kinda sucks but I think you’re right :shrug:


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Re: Trump/Giuliani lobbying Ukraine for dirt on Biden and his son [Re: Citizen X]
    #26200006 -

Citizen X said:
Here’s an interview that’s worth the few minutes. The video clip does a better job at explaining the deets
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/09/19/giuliani_freaks_out_on_cnn_cuomo_after_admitting_asking_ukraine_to_investigate_biden_moments_after_denying.html


That was a good interview.  Giuliani surprisingly kicked some ass.


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Trump/Giuliani lobbying Ukraine for dirt on Biden and his son [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26200013 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Citizen X said:
Here’s an interview that’s worth the few minutes. The video clip does a better job at explaining the deets
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/09/19/giuliani_freaks_out_on_cnn_cuomo_after_admitting_asking_ukraine_to_investigate_biden_moments_after_denying.html


That was a good interview.  Giuliani surprisingly kicked some ass.


Lol yeah he sure did


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Re: Trump/Giuliani lobbying Ukraine for dirt on Biden and his son [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26200017 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Citizen X said:
Here’s an interview that’s worth the few minutes. The video clip does a better job at explaining the deets
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/09/19/giuliani_freaks_out_on_cnn_cuomo_after_admitting_asking_ukraine_to_investigate_biden_moments_after_denying.html


That was a good interview.  Giuliani surprisingly kicked some ass.


Any opinion on the legality of what the president is doing?


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Re: Trump/Giuliani lobbying Ukraine for dirt on Biden and his son [Re: Citizen X]
    #26200041 -

Citizen X said:
Is it illegal?
Or just unethical?
Or neither?


We seem to hold back money all the time from corrupt Governments, so I'm guessing (I'm not a lawyer) that is legal.

Biden held back money until the prosecutor who wanted to investigate corruption in his son's company was fired.  That seems highly questionable to me.

Trump held back money because he wanted to know why Biden fired a guy who wanted to stop corruption.  That seems a bit more ethical to me.  :shrug:


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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