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OfflinePhred
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McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit
    #9020503 - 10/02/08 10:58 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Dang, that was fast. From http://ace.mu.nu/archives/274757.php --

Quote:

Biden's 14 Lies
—Ace

Fresh from the McCain people.

JOE BIDEN’S 14 LIES TONIGHT

1. TAX VOTE: Biden said McCain voted “the exact same way” as Obama to increase taxes on Americans earning just $42,000, but McCain DID NOT VOTE THAT WAY.

2. AHMEDINIJAD MEETING: Joe Biden lied when he said that Barack Obama never said that he would sit down unconditionally with Mahmoud Ahmedinijad of Iran. Barack Obama did say specifically, and Joe Biden attacked him for it.

3. OFFSHORE OIL DRILLING: Biden said, “Drill we must.” But Biden has opposed offshore drilling and even compared offshore drilling to “raping” the Outer Continental Shelf.”

4. TROOP FUNDING: Joe Biden lied when he indicated that John McCain and Barack Obama voted the same way against funding the troops in the field. John McCain opposed a bill that included a timeline, that the President of the United States had already said he would veto regardless of it’s passage.

5. OPPOSING CLEAN COAL: Biden says he’s always been for clean coal, but he just told a voter that he is against clean coal and any new coal plants in America and has a record of voting against clean coal and coal in the U.S. Senate.

6. ALERNATIVE ENERGY VOTES: According to FactCheck.org, Biden is exaggerating and overstating John McCain’s record voting for alternative energy when he says he voted against it 23 times.

7. HEALTH INSURANCE: Biden falsely said McCain will raise taxes on people's health insurance coverage -- they get a tax credit to offset any tax hike. Independent fact checkers have confirmed this attack is false

8. OIL TAXES: Biden falsely said Palin supported a windfall profits tax in Alaska -- she reformed the state tax and revenue system, it's not a windfall profits tax.

9. AFGHANISTAN / GEN. MCKIERNAN COMMENTS: Biden said that top military commander in Iraq said the principles of the surge could not be applied to Afghanistan, but the commander of NATO's International Security Assistance Force Gen. David D. McKiernan said that there were principles of the surge strategy, including working with tribes, that could be applied in Afghanistan.

10. REGULATION: Biden falsely said McCain weakened regulation -- he actually called for more regulation on Fannie and Freddie.

11. IRAQ: When Joe Biden lied when he said that John McCain was “dead wrong on Iraq”, because Joe Biden shared the same vote to authorize the war and differed on the surge strategy where they John McCain has been proven right.

12. TAX INCREASES: Biden said Americans earning less than $250,000 wouldn’t see higher taxes, but the Obama-Biden tax plan would raise taxes on individuals making $200,000 or more.

13. BAILOUT: Biden said the economic rescue legislation matches the four principles that Obama laid out, but in reality it doesn’t meet two of the four principles that Obama outlined on Sept. 19, which were that it include an emergency economic stimulus package, and that it be part of “part of a globally coordinated effort with our partners in the G-20.”

14. REAGAN TAX RATES: Biden is wrong in saying that under Obama, Americans won't pay any more in taxes then they did under Reagan.




How many more minutes till we see a similar list from the Obama camp?




Phred


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Offlinemonkeywrench
Why Not?


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks [Re: Phred]
    #9020520 - 10/02/08 11:01 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

not long I assure you


--------------------
[quote]skalthren said:
It's nice of you to imply that I've been brainwashed by the government, but the truth is that I'm simply intelligent enough to recognize the subtleties of these issues instead of going "durr hurr, weed should totally be legal!"[/quote]


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InvisibleTHE KRAT BARON
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks [Re: Phred]
    #9020521 - 10/02/08 11:02 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Wow that was pretty fast.


--------------------
m00nshine is currently vacationing in Maui. Rumor has it he got rolled by drunken natives and is currently prostituting himself in order to pay for airfare back to the mainland but he's having trouble juggling a hairon addiction. He won't be back for a long while.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks [Re: Phred]
    #9020605 - 10/02/08 11:14 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

#9 was called in the latter part of the debate, he dropped his head, conceded defeat at that instance


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Offlinemonkeywrench
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #9020663 - 10/02/08 11:22 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
#9 was called in the latter part of the debate, he dropped his head, conceded defeat at that instance


Palin rolled up Biden and smoked him.  Whether I agree with her or not.


--------------------
[quote]skalthren said:
It's nice of you to imply that I've been brainwashed by the government, but the truth is that I'm simply intelligent enough to recognize the subtleties of these issues instead of going "durr hurr, weed should totally be legal!"[/quote]


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InvisibleTHE KRAT BARON
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #9020668 - 10/02/08 11:22 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

He dropped his head quite a few times during the debate. Every time she mentioned how he had supported McCain on _____ or how he said it would be an honor to run with McCain his eyes would hit the podium. But I'm not going to take anything away from him, he did fairly well tonight. :smirk:


--------------------
m00nshine is currently vacationing in Maui. Rumor has it he got rolled by drunken natives and is currently prostituting himself in order to pay for airfare back to the mainland but he's having trouble juggling a hairon addiction. He won't be back for a long while.


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OfflineGogol
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #9020671 - 10/02/08 11:23 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
#9 was called in the latter part of the debate, he dropped his head, conceded defeat at that instance




True.  I'm not sure why he had to mention Roe v. Wade either; of all the cases he could have brought up, he mentioned one of the most divisive cases in American history.  Not smart Biden.


Edited by Gogol (10/02/08 11:23 PM)


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OfflinePhred
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks [Re: Phred]
    #9020702 - 10/02/08 11:26 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Whoa. Biden is pretty brazen with his bullshit, isn't he. I'm astonished he tried to get away with no 2. Is he too senile to remember this moment?








Phred


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Offlinemonkeywrench
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks [Re: Phred]
    #9020733 - 10/02/08 11:31 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
Whoa. Biden is pretty brazen with his bullshit, isn't he. I'm astonished he tried to get away with no 2. Is he too senile to remember this moment?








Phred



can you post the link for that vid please.  I want to send it to a friend of mine.  thanks


--------------------
[quote]skalthren said:
It's nice of you to imply that I've been brainwashed by the government, but the truth is that I'm simply intelligent enough to recognize the subtleties of these issues instead of going "durr hurr, weed should totally be legal!"[/quote]


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InvisibleTHE KRAT BARON
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks [Re: monkeywrench]
    #9020740 - 10/02/08 11:32 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Code:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1dSPrb5w_k



--------------------
m00nshine is currently vacationing in Maui. Rumor has it he got rolled by drunken natives and is currently prostituting himself in order to pay for airfare back to the mainland but he's having trouble juggling a hairon addiction. He won't be back for a long while.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks [Re: monkeywrench]
    #9020770 - 10/02/08 11:36 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I don't know how to post just links. Whenever I cut and paste the link, the Shroomery software automatically makes it active.

Just double- click on the vid a coupla times and it should take you straight to the YouTube page that hosts the video.

Or look it up on YouTube using this exact phrase in the keyword search --

YouTube Debate: Would You Meet with Iran/Syria/North Korea?

Cut and paste that phrase into YouTube's search window exactly as I typed it and away you go.




Phred


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #9020804 - 10/02/08 11:41 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
he dropped his head, conceded defeat at that instance




and if you watched closely he also grabbed his balls. :smirk:


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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OfflinePhred
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks [Re: Phred]
    #9020847 - 10/02/08 11:47 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Dang. Biden really isn't big on actual... you know.... facts, is he?

From http://www.mererhetoric.com/archives/11274902.html

Quote:

What the hell?

Quote:

BIDEN: When we kicked -- along with France, we kicked Hezbollah out of Lebanon, I said and Barack said, "Move NATO forces in there. Fill the vacuum, because if you don't know -- if you don't, Hezbollah will control it." Now what's happened? Hezbollah is a legitimate part of the government in the country immediately to the north of Israel.




No, seriously: what the hell? I have no idea what he's talking about. And even if I did: Obama thinks Syria is the solution to Hezbollah. Which means that Obama has been listening to his anti-Israel advisers a wee bit too much.

UPDATE: I also forgot to mention: (1) NATO has what mandate to go into Lebanon? (2) An international force has been a disaster for Israel. Other than all of this - great answer from the Dem's top foreign policy mind.








Phred


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks [Re: Phred]
    #9020877 - 10/02/08 11:50 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
Whoa. Biden is pretty brazen with his bullshit




watch his eyes when he speaks, you can see what level of honesty he's at


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OfflineGogol
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks [Re: Phred]
    #9020884 - 10/02/08 11:52 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)



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OfflinePhred
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #9020897 - 10/02/08 11:53 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Oh, I don't know. I think that shifty-eyed peering up from under bowed head schtick might be genetic or something. He was doing it even during his closing comments - which was all I managed to actually see of the debate.

I found a transcript, though, so I can read all their answer. Not the same thing, I know, but best I can do.



Phred


--------------------


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks [Re: Gogol]
    #9021130 - 10/03/08 12:35 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Gogol said:
McCain giving up on Michigan:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/03/us/politics/03michigan.html?ref=us





OMG the Republicans are giving up on a state that the republicans have not won in decades!!!!!!!!!

Seriously though i think its too early to be giving up on Michigan.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


Edited by lonestar2004 (10/03/08 02:06 AM)


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks [Re: lonestar2004]
    #9021216 - 10/03/08 12:49 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

4. TROOP FUNDING: Joe Biden lied when he indicated that John McCain and Barack Obama voted the same way against funding the troops in the field. John McCain opposed a bill that included a timeline, that the President of the United States had already said he would veto regardless of it’s passage.




That's a deliberate misinterpretation of what he said.  He said that both Obama and McCain voted against funding troops when the bill included terms they strongly opposed.  This is true. McCain voted against it when it contained a timeline, Obama voted against it lacked provisions to work towards Iraq taking responsibility for their own domestic defense.


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Invisiblepinkfloydms
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks [Re: Phred]
    #9021569 - 10/03/08 02:04 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
Dang, that was fast. From http://ace.mu.nu/archives/274757.php --

Quote:

Biden's 14 Lies
—Ace

Fresh from the McCain people.

JOE BIDEN’S 14 LIES TONIGHT

3. OFFSHORE OIL DRILLING: Biden said, “Drill we must.” But Biden has opposed offshore drilling and even compared offshore drilling to “raping” the Outer Continental Shelf.”

How is this a lie? He has probably changed his position in accordance with Obama in order to work for a better deal, meet half way with republicans.

4. TROOP FUNDING: Joe Biden lied when he indicated that John McCain and Barack Obama voted the same way against funding the troops in the field. John McCain opposed a bill that included a timeline, that the President of the United States had already said he would veto regardless of it’s passage.

Um yup that's a lie on Mcsames part.
http://www.veteransforcommonsense.org/articleid/9559

He has voted against funding for troops and missed votes for them also.



5. OPPOSING CLEAN COAL: Biden says he’s always been for clean coal, but he just told a voter that he is against clean coal and any new coal plants in America and has a record of voting against clean coal and coal in the U.S. Senate.

Biden says that was taken out of context, like mccain has said on a few thing in the past. I'm sure you can look at your transcript phred and see where biden explains his position on this from tonights debate.

8. OIL TAXES: Biden falsely said Palin supported a windfall profits tax in Alaska -- she reformed the state tax and revenue system, it's not a windfall profits tax.

Why didn't she rebutle this?

10. REGULATION: Biden falsely said McCain weakened regulation -- he actually called for more regulation on Fannie and Freddie.

He called for regulation one time like what 2 years ago? Where was he before this when republicans had the senate? Before this he was Mr Deregulation man.

11. IRAQ: When Joe Biden lied when he said that John McCain was “dead wrong on Iraq”, because Joe Biden shared the same vote to authorize the war and differed on the surge strategy where they John McCain has been proven right.

Just because they shared the same vote to go into Iraq doesn't mean that mccain wasn't wrong, obviously Biden was wrong also though.

13. BAILOUT: Biden said the economic rescue legislation matches the four principles that Obama laid out, but in reality it doesn’t meet two of the four principles that Obama outlined on Sept. 19, which were that it include an emergency economic stimulus package, and that it be part of “part of a globally coordinated effort with our partners in the G-20.”

Actually Obama pushed for 7 and he did actually get 4 so, this is a lie.
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/09/obama-and-the-bailout.php



Phred




I'm sure if I looked around longer I could drudge up more mis-conceptions.


--------------------
Muppet Said:

so yeah:
- 'sex' five times
- once with a man
- once with a cadaver
- and thrice with actual women(all of which were prostitutes)
Best story ever!

www.panicstream.com :thumbup:


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OfflinePhred
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks [Re: Phred]
    #9022890 - 10/03/08 11:48 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Not only did Obama say he'd meet with Ahmadinejad at that Democratic debate, he's still saying it at his website - http://origin.barackobama.com/issues/foreign_policy/



Quote:

Diplomacy: Obama supports tough, direct presidential diplomacy with Iran without preconditions. Now is the time to pressure Iran directly to change their troubling behavior. Obama and Biden would offer the Iranian regime a choice. If Iran abandons its nuclear program and support for terrorism, we will offer incentives like membership in the World Trade Organization, economic investments, and a move toward normal diplomatic relations. If Iran continues its troubling behavior, we will step up our economic pressure and political isolation. Seeking this kind of comprehensive settlement with Iran is our best way to make progress.




The media is praising Biden's "greater grasp of the issues" in last night's debates. Well yeah... if I got to make up my own "facts" on the issues without getting called on it by the fawning lapdogs of the MSM, I'd look pretty damn brilliant, wouldn't I?

But hey... Palin lied about a general's name.





Phred


--------------------


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OfflinePhred
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks [Re: Phred]
    #9022904 - 10/03/08 11:52 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Heh. More Biden bullshit:

From http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=OGRlOTQyODNhNmVlYmIwOTAzM2U0ZmZlMGQ4MTFjY2E=

Quote:

Biden is telling absurd lies about Afghanistan tonight.  In particular, he's repeatedly claimed that "we've spent less in Afghanistan in seven years than we spend in a month in Iraq."

He's made that claim, or claims to that effect, repeatedly.  It is, to put it bluntly, a complete Goddamned lie.

According to the Congressional Research Service, spending on the war in Afghanistan since 2001 has been $172 Billion.  Spending in Iraq is, as the Democrats repeatedly mention, a little under $10 Billion a month.

In other words, Biden's number is off by, oh, something like 2000%.  Perhaps Obama's Sub-Committee ought to have held some hearings on Afghanistan after all.




What a maroon.







Phred


--------------------


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Invisiblepinkfloydms
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks [Re: Phred]
    #9022927 - 10/03/08 11:59 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I still don't see the problem with meeting leaders of other countries to try and talk through some problems we have. It only seems logical to me. Sending one of your fuck ups over to talk with a leader of another country like bush does is disrespectful and basically makes  you look like you don't really give 2 shits about that country.
Leave it up to mccain and he'll be sending the military over to "talk" to people since it seems that's all he can think of. I really wish he would fucking die.


--------------------
Muppet Said:

so yeah:
- 'sex' five times
- once with a man
- once with a cadaver
- and thrice with actual women(all of which were prostitutes)
Best story ever!

www.panicstream.com :thumbup:


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks [Re: pinkfloydms]
    #9022938 - 10/03/08 12:06 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

pinkfloydms said:
I still don't see the problem with meeting leaders of other countries to try and talk through some problems we have. It only seems logical to me.




tactical oversight


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OfflinePhred
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks [Re: pinkfloydms]
    #9022971 - 10/03/08 12:18 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

I still don't see the problem with meeting leaders of other countries to try and talk through some problems we have.




Neither does Obama. Which is yet another reason why his election would be a disaster for America.



Phred


--------------------


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Invisiblepinkfloydms
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks [Re: Phred]
    #9022976 - 10/03/08 12:19 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

So instead of trying to hash out problems with other countries, we should just say fuck em like Bush already does, since it's worked so well for us so far? Wow that's fucking stupid.


--------------------
Muppet Said:

so yeah:
- 'sex' five times
- once with a man
- once with a cadaver
- and thrice with actual women(all of which were prostitutes)
Best story ever!

www.panicstream.com :thumbup:


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OfflinePhred
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks [Re: pinkfloydms]
    #9023043 - 10/03/08 12:37 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

As Kissinger points out, you don't initiate discussions with thugs at the presidential level. It sends the wrong message. It gives the thugs an appearance of legitimacy to which they are not entitled.

All diplomats know this. Even Joe freaking Biden knows this, which is why he was so anxious to lie about Obama's incredibly naive stance on this issue. I mean seriously .... this is Diplomacy 101 we're talking about here.

Anyway, for the purpose of this thread, it's not that Obama's position on negotiating with criminals is so stupid (although clearly it is) it's that Joe Biden was bullshitting throughout the entire debate on just about every topic brought up. Oh... plus the fact that the MSM is giving him a complete pass on it, as if we expected anything different. But Sarah Palin lied to the American public about a general's name!





Phred


--------------------


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OfflineKodath
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks [Re: pinkfloydms]
    #9023063 - 10/03/08 12:45 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

I still don't see the problem with meeting leaders of other countries to try and talk through some problems we have.



I don't either. The idea that you're legitimizing the actions of a leader just by talking to him about issues of concern is stupid. Demanding that they agree with your position before you even talk to them again is even more stupid. Or maybe childish is a better word.

If all countries followed that policy there'd be a lot more wars going on now.


--------------------


Life: Main event at the MGM Grand. Murphy's fighting Occam, and you're in the stands.


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks [Re: Phred]
    #9023090 - 10/03/08 12:51 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I know Fox news was just talking about her name mistake!

Bastards! No one is talking about Bidens lies!


Could you imagine if Palin had said this?

Biden: “The idea he [Cheney] doesn’t realize that Article I of the Constitution defines the role of the vice president of the United States, that’s the Executive Branch. He works in the Executive Branch. He should understand that. Everyone should understand that.”


The MSM would be asking McCain to drop her off the ticket!


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks [Re: Kodath]
    #9023100 - 10/03/08 12:53 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

SEN. OBAMA: Now, understand what this means, "without preconditions." It doesn't mean that you invite them over for tea one day. What it means is that we don't do what we've been doing, which is to say until you agree to do exactly what we say, we won't have direct contacts with you. There's a difference between preconditions and preparation. Of course we've got to do preparation, starting with low-level diplomatic talks, and it may not work because Iran is a rogue regime.

[...]

SEN. OBAMA: Look, I mean, Senator — Senator McCain keeps on using this example that suddenly the president would just meet with somebody without doing any preparation, without having low-level talks. Nobody's been talking about that, and Senator McCain knows it.

This is a mischaracterization of my position




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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Phred]
    #9023741 - 10/03/08 03:44 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Heh. Man, I'm not ashamed to admit Ace cracks me up. I wish I had the same way with words he does. Please, everybody visit his blog multiple times each day and click on all his sponsor links so he can make a bit of money. Comedy gold, I tell ya.

Quote:

Noted Foreign Policy Genius, With 36 Years of Expertise, Thinks We Kicked Hezbollah out of Lebanon, Despite the Fact They Periodically Hold the Government Hostage and Take Over Opposition TV Stations

Unbelievably awful gaffe. Not ticky-tack. Not "arguably wrong."

Flat out, ludicrously wrong, with no way on earth to rescue it by postulating "Oh, I meant x."

But remember: Sarah Palin was "loose with the facts" and showed only "a superficial talking-point understanding of national issues."

Because this error is so deadly, the media will utterly refuse to report it. If they can't spin it -- and they can't spin this -- they simply embargo it.

And he lied about coal.

Oh? And that jaw-dropping claim (which he repeated for emphasis) that we spent more in three weeks in Iraq than in seven years in Afghanistan? Was this anything a rational human being could possibly believe was even plausibly close to accurate?

And he lied, and lied, and lied, and erred, and erred, and erred, and gaffed, and gaffed, and gaffed.

I am dumfounded at that Iraq/Afghanistan one. It is so obviously crank -- laughable on its face. How on earth could he have asserted this as true, and then repeated it -- "Let me say that again so it sinks in"? How on earth could anyone with a brain possibly believe this?

Consider how borderline retarded you'd have to be to even consider this to be true.

Think about it.

This guy is not "a blowhard." He is a fucking moron.

Ready to step in and be president? Only so long as the most taxing question a president faces during the day is "What color are oranges?"




http://ace.mu.nu/archives/274811.php

Go there now. Then come back here and go there again, just for fun.





Phred


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Phred]
    #9023789 - 10/03/08 03:53 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Okay... the Lebanon blunder was so horrifically bad it deserves its own post. From Allahpundit at Hotair:

Quote:

Rick Moran of Right Wing Nut House has followed the wars in Lebanon more closely than most bloggers, and Joe Biden’s assertion that the US and France “kicked Hezbollah out of Lebanon” has him gasping for breath.  Calling it “completely insane”, Rick deconstructs the rest of the answer on this question to seriously challenge whatever credentials Biden claims on foreign policy.  First, here’s Biden’s answer in its entirety, emphases mine:

Quote:

BIDEN: Gwen, no one in the United States Senate has been a better friend to Israel than Joe Biden. I would have never, ever joined this ticket were I not absolutely sure Barack Obama shared my passion.  But you asked a question about whether or not this administration’s policy had made sense or something to that effect. It has been an abject failure, this administration’s policy.  In fairness to Secretary Rice, she’s trying to turn it around now in the seventh or eighth year.

Here’s what the president said when we said no. He insisted on elections on the West Bank, when I said, and others said, and Barack Obama said, “Big mistake. Hamas will win. You’ll legitimize them.” What happened? Hamas won.  When we kicked — along with France, we kicked Hezbollah out of Lebanon, I said and Barack said, “Move NATO forces in there. Fill the vacuum, because if you don’t know — if you don’t, Hezbollah will control it.”

Now what’s happened? Hezbollah is a legitimate part of the government in the country immediately to the north of Israel.  The fact of the matter is, the policy of this administration has been an abject failure.  And speaking of freedom being on the march, the only thing on the march is Iran. It’s closer to a bomb. Its proxies now have a major stake in Lebanon, as well as in the Gaza Strip with Hamas.

We will change this policy with thoughtful, real, live diplomacy that understands that you must back Israel in letting them negotiate, support their negotiation, and stand with them, not insist on policies like this administration has.




Rick couldn’t believe his ears:

Quote:

Of course, no one “threw Hezb’allah out of Lebanon.” They have been there all along as the expert above notes. The Lebanese people threw the Syrians out of Lebanon, with no help from liberal Democrats like Biden and Obama, but with a great big behind the scenes lift from France and the US. It was we who put the bug in King Abdullah’s ear to lobby the Syrians to get while the going was good as the French worked directly on Baby Assad. The combination worked wonderfully and the Syrians left in a hurry – after a couple of million Lebanese took to the streets in a breathtaking show of defiance to tyranny and love of freedom.

Joe Biden – or any rational human being on this planet anyway – never recommended that NATO be dispatched to “fill the vacuum.” It is a lie. If it had been proposed. Colin Powell would have been laughed out of the room – something we should do to Biden at this point because he compounded his gaffe by evidently believing that not having NATO as a buffer between Israel and Hezb’allah – an absolute impossibility mind you – led to the ascension of Hezb’allah in Lebanon as a political power.

Where has Biden been for the last 20 years – at least since the Taif Accords were signed in 1989 which gave Hezb’allah a free hand in the southern part of the country and then pressuring the Lebanese government to formally designate them as “the resistance” to Israel? Hezb’allah’s rise is directly related to Iran’s funding of their proxy to the tune of around $250 million a year.




Like Rick, I cannot recall anyone seriously suggesting that NATO occupy the sub-Litani region of Lebanon.  NATO already found itself stretched to meet its commitments in Afghanistan, although Germany and Italy did find troops to contribute to the beefed-up presence in UNIFIL, the same multinational force that had sat idle while Hezbollah armed itself after the Israeli withdrawal from the region a few years ago — and then turned around and did the same thing after the Israeli withdrawal in 2006.

Some people assumed that Biden meant that the US and France kicked Syria out of Lebanon, but Michael Totten — who has spent considerable time in Lebanon — doesn’t buy that explanation, either:

Quote:

And did Biden and Senator Barack Obama really say NATO troops should be sent into Lebanon? When did they say that? Why would they say that? They certainly didn’t say it because NATO needed to prevent Hezbollah from returning–since Hezbollah never went anywhere.

I tried to chalk this one up as just the latest of Biden’s colorful gaffes. Did he mean to say “we kicked Syria out of Lebanon?” But that wouldn’t make any more sense. First of all, the Lebanese kicked Syria out of Lebanon. Not the United States, and not France. But he clearly meant to say Hezbollah, not Syria, because he correctly notes just a few sentences later that Hezbollah is part of Lebanon’s government. He wasn’t talking about Syria. He was talking about Hezbollah all the way through, at the beginning, in the middle, and at the end of his outlandish assertion.




And all of this points out the folly of presidential-level meetings with the leadership of Iran, without the precondition of them ending their support for the terrorist group Hezbollah.  Iran funds Hezbollah and their terrorist activities, which Biden rightly decries.  But if Biden doesn’t want Hezbollah to be a “legitimate part” of the Lebanese government for that reason, why would he legitimize their sponsors with presidential-level meetings without first insisting on the end of that support?

It’s a completely incoherent policy as well as a terrible misreading of history and the present status of the region. And if Biden can’t get this right, what does that say about his running mate, who chose Biden to fill the gaps in his own foreign-policy portfolio?




And the MSM is all over this like a pack of wolverines.... not. You could knock me over with a feather. Seriously.






Phred


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks [Re: Phred]
    #9023812 - 10/03/08 04:01 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
Quote:

I still don't see the problem with meeting leaders of other countries to try and talk through some problems we have.




Neither does Obama. Which is yet another reason why his election would be a disaster for America.



Phred





Oh please;


Let me ask you this.


Seriously now, do you not see the incredible scourge that is cocaine smuggling submarines?  They are coming to america in great fleets of terror and wrath.


Biden is the only one who stopped it, he's the one who saved america, he's the reason N. America isn't a ghost land now.





wasn't it already illegal to smuggle drugs in submarines?


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks [Re: johnm214]
    #9023889 - 10/03/08 04:19 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
Quote:

Phred said:
Quote:

I still don't see the problem with meeting leaders of other countries to try and talk through some problems we have.




Neither does Obama. Which is yet another reason why his election would be a disaster for America.



Phred





Oh please;


Let me ask you this.


Seriously now, do you not see the incredible scourge that is cocaine smuggling submarines?  They are coming to america in great fleets of terror and wrath.


Biden is the only one who stopped it, he's the one who saved america, he's the reason N. America isn't a ghost land now.





wasn't it already illegal to smuggle drugs in submarines?





pardon me... I believe your standing on my pen0r


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #9024013 - 10/03/08 04:46 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

National Review Online is starting to have a little fun with SloJo.
http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ZTVhMThlNjRkZGFlMmUwOWFkNDZkZjk0MzBiY2JiYmY=

One good one

Quote:

ARMS CONTROL TREATY: Biden: "Number two, with regard to arms control and weapons, nuclear weapons require a nuclear arms control regime. John McCain voted against a Comprehensive Nuclear-Test-Ban Treaty that every Republican has supported."

I have no idea where Biden gets this "every Republican has supported" claim, as 49 other Republican senators voted 'no' with McCain.




There's more at the link.  Very fun stuff.


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Phred]
    #9024033 - 10/03/08 04:48 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Well, we started with 14 right off the bat. Quite a few more have been added to this thread, and I've spoken of at least one more (his disastrous mangling of what the Constitution has to say about the VP job) in other threads and we're still not even 24 hours from the end of the debate. How many more will we discover? This truly is the gift that keeps on giving, folks. Here's a few more...


Quote:

VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN ACT: Biden's statement that McCain voted against the Violence Against Women Act is accurate. But as Robert Byers notes, the Supreme Court ruled in United States v. Morrison, the Court ruled that much of Biden's law was an unconstitutional power grab by Congress of rights reserved to the states. Nobody voted against the WAWA because they support violence against women; they objected over constiutional concerns that a Supreme Court majority validated.





Quote:

RESTAURANT: "Look, all you have to do is go down Union Street with me in Wilmington or go to Katie's Restaurant or walk into Home Depot with me where I spend a lot of time and you ask anybody in there whether or not the economic and foreign policy of this administration has made them better off in the last eight years."

According to this Delaware site, Katie's Restaurant is no longer in business; locals remember it on Union Street 25 to 30 years ago.




Quote:

ARMS CONTROL TREATY: Biden: "Number two, with regard to arms control and weapons, nuclear weapons require a nuclear arms control regime. John McCain voted against a Comprehensive Nuclear-Test-Ban Treaty that every Republican has supported."

I have no idea where Biden gets this "every Republican has supported" claim, as 49 other Republican senators voted 'no' with McCain.

Quote:

When the roll was finally called on October 13, the resolution to ratify the CTBT (including the six safeguards that Daschle had submitted as an amendment) was defeated by a 51-48 vote with one abstention. (See the voting record.) Forty-four Democrats voted for ratification as did four Republicans: John Chafee (R-RI), James Jeffords (R-VT), Gordon Smith (R-OR) and Arlen Specter (R-PA). Fifty Republican senators and one independent (Robert Smith of New Hampshire) voted against ratification, and Senator Robert Byrd (D-WV) voted "present." The treaty fell 19 votes short of achieving the necessary two-thirds majority necessary for ratification.







Quote:

WEST BANK ELECTIONS: Biden: President Bush insisted on elections in the West Bank, when I said, and others said, and Barack Obama said, 'Big mistake. Hamas will win. You'll legitimize them.'"

The Washington Post's Glenn Kessler notes that "Obama had been a senator for only a few days when the election took place, but if he made such statements, they did not appear in news reports or transcripts that are contained in the Nexis or Factiva databases."




Quote:

PAKISTANI WEAPONS: "Pakistan already has nuclear weapons. Pakistan already has deployed nuclear weapons. Pakistan's weapons can already hit Israel and the Mediterranean."

I won't quite chalk this up as a lie/hallucination, but Biden is on shaky ground here. (See below.) The distance between Israel and Pakistan is 2,085 miles, or 3355 kilometers. The longest-range existing strategic missile in the Pakistani arsenal has a range of 3000 kilometers, but it might have longer range with a lighter payload. (But how much can you lighten a nuclear payload?) They are working on developing longer-range missiles; maybe Biden knows of some development that public sources do not yet know about. Theoretically, the Pakistanis could put the weapon on a boat and then sail it to the target, but by that standard, any site on a coast in the world is within their range.

ANOTHER UPDATE: This site indicates that the top range of Pakistani missile that can carry a nuclear warhead is 1000 miles. By being off by 1,000 or so, I'm now upgrading this to full lie/error/hallucination status.



http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ZTVhMThlNjRkZGFlMmUwOWFkNDZkZjk0MzBiY2JiYmY=

So yeah.... the Chattering Classes in the MSM are all "Oh, Palin smiled and winked her way into a close tie, but Biden KILLED on the facts, especially on his specialty, foreign affairs."

Uh huh. It's easy to "kill" when you get to generate your own version of reality out of thin air and never get called on it by the lapdogs of the MSM.





Phred


***edit*** I see zappa saw the same article I did.


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Edited by Phred (10/03/08 04:50 PM)


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Phred]
    #9024072 - 10/03/08 04:55 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

In re Hamas:  They are not a West Bank force, they are a Gaza force.  They aren't shit in the West Bank.


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: zappaisgod]
    #9024107 - 10/03/08 05:00 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah, that too.



Phred


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Phred]
    #9024385 - 10/03/08 05:57 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Palin's script was good. I liked how she deliberately and proudly ignored Gwen Ifil's questions. I also liked the part where she got the general in Afghanistan's name wrong. Ooh, ooh, but my absolute favorite part was when she said she agreed with Cheney and wants the powers of the Vice President expanded which, as Joe pointed out, is completely unconstitutional. Biden was intelligent, on message, prepared to answer any of the moderator's questions, and overall blew Palin out of the water. It was just so painfully obvious that she had no idea what she was talking about the whole debate. She'd answer a question on health care with a script about energy, she'd answer a question about Iraq with an answer about taxes. It was absurd and laughable. This woman is in no way qualified to hold high office.


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #9024540 - 10/03/08 06:28 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

He was prepared with a fairly extensive list of fake facts, some of which are chronicled above.  It's pretty easy when you make shit up, like us kicking Hezbollah out of Lebanon.


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #9025085 - 10/03/08 08:11 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Gastronomicus, you haven't actually read this thread yet, have you?

Biden made at least 20 total bullshit statements - including screwing up the whole Constitutional description of the VP's duties just about as badly as it could possibly be screwed up - and your best shot is that Palin mispronounced the name of a general serving in Afghanistan?

Good thing you're so easily comforted, I guess.




Phred


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #9025118 - 10/03/08 08:16 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Gastronomicus said:
Palin's script was good. I liked how she deliberately and proudly ignored Gwen Ifil's questions. I also liked the part where she got the general in Afghanistan's name wrong. Ooh, ooh, but my absolute favorite part was when she said she agreed with Cheney and wants the powers of the Vice President expanded which, as Joe pointed out, is completely unconstitutional.




http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives2/2008/10/021676.php
Quote:

This isn't what's conventionally described as a gaffe, and it won't swing any votes, but last night Joe Biden garbled the Constitutional role of the Vice President. I wanted to read the transcript before commenting; here was Gwen Ifill's question:

    Governor, you mentioned a moment ago the constitution might give the vice president more power than it has in the past. Do you believe as Vice President Cheney does, that the Executive Branch does not hold complete sway over the office of the vice presidency, that it it is also a member of the Legislative Branch?

Here is Biden's answer, in full:

    Vice President Cheney has been the most dangerous vice president we've had probably in American history. The idea he doesn't realize that Article I of the Constitution defines the role of the vice president of the United States, that's the Executive Branch. He works in the Executive Branch. He should understand that. Everyone should understand that.

    And the primary role of the vice president of the United States of America is to support the president of the United States of America, give that president his or her best judgment when sought, and as vice president, to preside over the Senate, only in a time when in fact there's a tie vote. The Constitution is explicit.

    The only authority the vice president has from the legislative standpoint is the vote, only when there is a tie vote. He has no authority relative to the Congress. The idea he's part of the Legislative Branch is a bizarre notion invented by Cheney to aggrandize the power of a unitary executive and look where it has gotten us. It has been very dangerous.

For a man of Biden's experience, this is a surprising series of misstatements. First of all, he gets wrong one of the most basic facts about the Constitution: Article 1 establishes the legislative branch, not, as Biden said, the executive branch. This is not exactly an obscure fact; my 17-year-old daughter pointed it out at the time.

Second, it simply isn't true that the Constitution treats the Vice President only as a member of the executive branch. The Vice President is mentioned in Article II as part of the executive branch, but he is also given legislative powers by Section 3 of Article 1, which establishes the Senate:

    The Vice President of the United States shall be President of the Senate, but shall have no Vote, unless they be equally divided.

Vice President Cheney's "bizarre notion" is in keeping with the plain text of the Constitution.

Finally, Biden misstated the Vice President's role in the Senate. It isn't true that he "preside[s] over the Senate, only in a time when in fact there's a tie vote." The Constitution contemplates that the Vice President will be the full-time President of the Senate, replaced by a President pro tempore "in the absence of the Vice President." It's true that the Vice President only gets to vote in case of a tie; but, of course, that's the only time it matters.

If Joe Biden were a high school student taking a test on the Constitution in a government course, he would get a C or a D. Some would say his mistakes were minor, and, as I said, they certainly won't swing any votes. But it is distinctly odd that a man who has been in the Senate for more than three decades doesn't understand the Constitutional role of the Vice President with respect to that body.





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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks [Re: lonestar2004]
    #9025204 - 10/03/08 08:36 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
I know Fox news was just talking about her name mistake!

Bastards! No one is talking about Bidens lies!


Could you imagine if Palin had said this?

Biden: “The idea he [Cheney] doesn’t realize that Article I of the Constitution defines the role of the vice president of the United States, that’s the Executive Branch. He works in the Executive Branch. He should understand that. Everyone should understand that.”


The MSM would be asking McCain to drop her off the ticket!






What are you refering to?  That Article I is the congress, and so that implies that the vice president is really more of a congressional official than presidential?


I agree this is pretty weird if Biden didn't know article I was re: congress...

Really, it appears the V.P. can run the senate, from my understanding, but pretty much chooses not to.  (I know he gets paid by the senate/congress and not the white house.


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Phred]
    #9025714 - 10/03/08 10:21 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
Biden made at least 20 total bullshit statements - including screwing up the whole Constitutional description of the VP's duties just about as badly as it could possibly be screwed up





Just about. The only way one could do worse is by making up some bizarre garbage about how the Constitution gives the Vice President flexibility. Now lets go after this so called list of lies.

#2 Categorically false, this is not Obama's position, he has made that clear. Only thick headed McCaininites like yourself think that this is a lie.

#3 Out of context. Biden said that, but said that it'll take 10 years to see any oil out of it. He said "in the meantime, we're all going to be in real trouble."

#4 If you actually read what you say, it's laughable. A translation: John McCain was opposed to the bill but Bush had already said he was gonna veto it so it doesn't matter what McCain's position was amirite?

#5 Source?

#7 Not a lie at all. John McCain's stated policy is that he will tax employers who provide health care benefits in order to pay for this 5000 tax credit. Get that garbage out of here.

#9 Surprise surprise, another lie from the McCain camp. Google it bitch. Both McKiernan and Petreus say "What I don’t think is needed – the word I don’t use in Afghanistan is the word surge."

#10 An even bigger lie. John McCain has said "I am fundamentally a deregulator." Yes yes, he had his Fannie Mae Freddie Mac moment two years ago, that's wonderful for him. But it doesn't change 26 years of anti-regulation.

#11 (what you wrote) "When Joe Biden lied when he said that John McCain was “dead wrong on Iraq”, because Joe Biden shared the same vote to authorize the war and differed on the surge strategy where they John McCain has been proven right." All I gotta say is... what?

#12 Flat out falsification, along with 14


So all in all, we've got maybe 3-4 lies/misstatements tops. Compared to Ms. Palin's 12 (source coming soon).


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #9025735 - 10/03/08 10:26 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Palin mistakenly claimed that troop levels in Iraq had returned to “pre-surge” levels. Levels are gradually coming down but current plans would have levels higher than pre-surge numbers through early next year, at least.

Palin repeated a false claim that Obama once voted in favor of higher taxes on “families” making as little as $42,000 a year. He did not. The budget bill in question called for an increase only on singles making that amount, but a family of four would not have been affected unless they made at least $90,000 a year.

Palin claimed McCain’s health care plan would be “budget neutral,” costing the government nothing. Independent budget experts estimate McCain's plan would cost tens of billions each year, though details are too fuzzy to allow for exact estimates.

(back to the days of dubya and his fuzzy numbers?)

Palin repeated the attack that Obama voted for higher taxes 94 times, which the New York Times says is “false,” CNN says is “Misleading,” and FactCheck.org says is “inflated.”

Palin said Obama is is proposing “nearly a trillion dollars in new spending,” but didn’t mention that he has also proposed cuts to balance it out, an attack CNN has already debunked as “misleading” and that ignores the far larger cost of McCain’s tax cuts and spending hikes.

Palin repeated what the AP called the “highly misleading” attack that Obama opposed funding for the troops, and Factcheck.org notes that the same methodology would lead to the same conclusion for McCain.

Palin said that [McKiernan] did not say a surge wouldn’t work in Afghanistan, when just yesterday he said  “The word I don’t use for Afghanistan is ’surge,’ ” McKiernan stressed, saying that what is required is a “sustained commitment” to a counterinsurgency effort that could last many years and would ultimately require a political, not military, solution.

Palin said “You do what I did as governor. And you appoint people regardless of party affiliation. Democrats, independents, Republicans, you walk the walk, don't just talk the talk” when she repeatedly appointed friends and supporters to positions for which they weren’t qualified.

Palin falsely claimed that she was the first governor to form a climate change subcabinet, when at least 28 states had already taken action.

Palin claimed that “when I and others” found out that the state had money  invested in Sudan that “we called for divestment,” when the reality is that Palin’s appointees worked to kill a Darfur divestment plan.

Palin said to “look at the tobacco industry” as an example of McCain pushing for even harder and tougher regulations. But McCain opposed expanding the SCHIP children’s health insurance program for 5.8 million children because it would increase tobacco taxes.




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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #9025769 - 10/03/08 10:33 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

#2 Categorically false, this is not Obama's position, he has made that clear.




Go to his website. It still says right on his website he will meet Ahmadinejad without preconditions. And of course, millions of people watched him say it at the debate. And watched Edwards and Hillary (possibly others as well... I can't remember) explain at that same debate just why it was such a doofus position to hold. Yet it's still right there for all to see at the official certified Obama campaign website. I posted all of this earlier in the thread (video of the question at the debate, with Obama's and Edwrds's and Clinton's responses, screenshot of Obama's website with the statement highlighted, and the link to the website so you can verify for yourself), but you were too busy regurgitating kneejerk Obamabot talking points to have noticed your own man has cut you off at the knees on this one. Oops.

Here, let me save you some time:

http://origin.barackobama.com/issues/foreign_policy/


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #9025784 - 10/03/08 10:35 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

#5 Source?









Phred


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #9025818 - 10/03/08 10:41 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

#3 Out of context. Biden said that, but said that it'll take 10 years to see any oil out of it. He said "in the meantime, we're all going to be in real trouble."




In July, Biden Said Proponents Of Offshore Drilling Want To "Rape" The Outer Continental Shelf. "'I think this is a last-ditch effort to go out and rape the offshore continental shelf, so that they own it and are able to use it as leverage in the future, because they know if they don't get it in the last couple of months of this administration, they're not going to get it,' Biden said." (Jeff Montgomery, "Biden Rips Bush On Energy," The [Wilmington, DE] News Journal, 7/15/08)
www.delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article%3FAID%3D2008807240319+%22of+this+administration,+they%27re+not+going%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&client=safari" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noreferrer noopener">http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:jIgKaR1mQzAJ:www.delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article%3FAID%3D2008807240319+%22of+this+administration,+they%27re+not+going%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&client=safari



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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Phred]
    #9025829 - 10/03/08 10:42 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

He clearly misunderstood the question. She asked about clean coal and he replied with something about China's dirty coal. His position is pretty clear


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Phred]
    #9025835 - 10/03/08 10:44 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I didn't say he didn't say that drilling offshore was raping the environment. It is, but that's not what I was replying to.


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Phred]
    #9025841 - 10/03/08 10:44 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I could keep on going, but why should I waste more of my time? It's obvious you don't know what you're talking about.

Biden lied and misremembered and hallucinated and created his own special reality out of thin air last night and the MSM gave him a complete walk on it.

Palin mispronounced the name of a general serving in Afghanistan and its front page news. But the press isn't in the tank for Obama. Oh no. Perish the thought.






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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Phred]
    #9025855 - 10/03/08 10:47 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
I could keep on going, but why should I waste more of my time? It's obvious you don't know what you're talking about.

Biden lied and misremembered and hallucinated and created his own special reality out of thin air last night and the MSM gave him a complete walk on it.

Palin mispronounced the name of a general serving in Afghanistan and its front page news. But the press isn't in the tank for Obama. Oh no. Perish the thought.





You could keep going if you had even a shred of ground to stand upon. If you think that the worst thing Sarah Palin did last night was mispronounce the name of the General in Afghanistan then there's no hope for you. I gotta say Phred, you are so far up the ass of the Palin political machine that you wouldn't know the truth if it spit in your face.


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #9025858 - 10/03/08 10:47 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Did you watch the debate video yet? Bother to visit Obama's foreign policy webpage to confirm I didn't photoshop that screenshot?

What part of "Obama supports tough direct presidential diplomacy with Iran without preconditions" am I misinterpreting?

I gotta say, Gastronomicus, you are so far up the ass of the Biden political machine that you wouldn't know the truth if it spit in your face.








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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Phred]
    #9025869 - 10/03/08 10:50 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I watched the video, and checked your link. Not false. You're not misinterpreting that. You're just living in a fantasy world where Sarah Palin gave a "great" debate performance in which she failed to answer anything asked of her and instead danced from unrelated issue to unrelated issue in a desperate attempt to not look like the buffoon she is.


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #9025876 - 10/03/08 10:53 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Gastronomicus said:
she failed to answer anything asked of her and instead danced from unrelated issue to unrelated issue in a desperate attempt to not look like the buffoon she is.




:hehehe:

you noticed that too


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #9025878 - 10/03/08 10:53 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

So you're reversing your position on number 2? Well, that's a start. I guess sometimes it is worth me making that extra effort. Hopefully you'll come around on the rest of them once you look into them, too.




Phred


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: piracetam]
    #9025881 - 10/03/08 10:53 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

piracetam said:
Quote:

Gastronomicus said:
she failed to answer anything asked of her and instead danced from unrelated issue to unrelated issue in a desperate attempt to not look like the buffoon she is.




:hehehe:

you noticed that too




You'd have to be Phred not to notice :rolleyes:


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #9025886 - 10/03/08 10:54 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I just have to say that anyone who believes that either of them did a good job last night is delusional and should be committed for their own safety and the safety of others.


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Phred]
    #9025893 - 10/03/08 10:56 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
So your reversing your position on number 2? Well, that's a start. I guess sometimes it is worth me making that extra effort. Hopefully you'll come around on the rest of them once you look into them, too.





Oh not at all. My position on #2 remains the same. I think that diplomacy is a good idea in all circumstances. I will however admit that I dislike the Obama campaign fleeing from the statement like it's something to be ashamed of. I mean... there's no honor in politics though so I can't be surprised.


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #9025905 - 10/03/08 10:58 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Gastronomicus said:
Quote:

piracetam said:
Quote:

Gastronomicus said:
she failed to answer anything asked of her and instead danced from unrelated issue to unrelated issue in a desperate attempt to not look like the buffoon she is.




:hehehe:

you noticed that too




You'd have to be Phred not to notice :rolleyes:




It cracked me up when she explicitly said she wasn't going to answer some questions how the moderator liked. Is there any more of transparent show of how script-bound you are?


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #9025907 - 10/03/08 10:58 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

You're just living in a fantasy world where Sarah Palin gave a "great" debate performance...




Sorry, dude, you are confusing me with someone else. I haven't written a single word on Palin's debate performance, other than to point out her mispronunciation of the name of a general serving in Afghanistan. I have offered no opinion whatsoever on the strength or weakness of her appearance last night.

You really would come off a little more credible if you were to take a few deep breaths, slow down, and actually think a little bit before writing these posts. Don't worry... we'll all still be here to read them.




Phred


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Phred]
    #9025911 - 10/03/08 10:59 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)



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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #9025915 - 10/03/08 11:00 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I particularly like how she diverted the discussion of past mistakes to talk about the future.

that's the kind of bs you'd expect from someone oblivious to history.


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #9025928 - 10/03/08 11:04 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

And where in that post did I say anything about Palin's debate performance?

See, this is just one of the troubles I have with Obamabots. They don't actually read. They pass their eyes over the screen looking for a Pavlovian trigger word or trigger phrase, then when they spot it, their fingers reflexively start typing a regurgitation of an Obama talking point. Hit the "post" button and off to the next post by a dreaded "neocon".

Don't ever change, bro.





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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Phred]
    #9025932 - 10/03/08 11:05 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

No, you're right you didn't say anything about the debate performance. I spoke too soon. But you're still in Palin's pocket and think her shit don't stink. It does, a lot worse then everyone else's.


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #9026088 - 10/03/08 11:34 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

No, you're right you didn't say anything about the debate performance. I spoke too soon.




So what have you been right about in this thread so far? That's right.... nothing.

Look, there is no one else in this forum (with the possible exception of zappaisgod) who has more people crouching in the wings waiting to pounce on the tiniest slip up I make. I know how Palin felt with Gibson and Couric, waiting for the "gotcha". Except in my case it's not a one-on-one, it's like forty-on-one.

So I don't casually post stuff of a factual nature I haven't thoroughly checked beforehand, and when I do, I make it plain that "it may not stand up to scrutiny down the road, so don't consider me married to it". You will note I expressed my surprise that the McCain campaign had that list of 14 up less than fifteen minutes after the debate's end. Did I defend all 14 at that time? No... of course not. I hadn't even seen the debate or read the transcript, so how could I possibly know if they even quoted Biden correctly, let alone were able to show he had fucked up? If within a couple of hours someone had been able to show how this or that point was incorrect, you wouldn't have seen me defending it - not my list, after all.

Thing is, here we are a day later and guess what? We've now assembled quite a few more than those 14 fuckups (or lies, to use the Leftards' favorite word) the McCain camp provided to start the ball rolling, and those original fourteen are standing up pretty damn well. As it turns out, Biden's "great performance" and "commanding grasp of foreign policy detail" yadda yadda yadda turns out to be a complete illusion.  Biden basically made stuff up as he went along and very few average Americans caught it.

And why should the average American catch it? The average American isn't a foreign policy wonk. That's why we pay Biden - to be a policy wonk. And that's why the media pays pundits - to do sanity checks on the elected policy wonks. Only this time around, guess what? The media pundits are letting it slide. Only the alternative media - those dreaded neocon bloggers sitting around their screens in their pajamas - are catching this stuff.

So yeah... polls taken seconds after the debate's end by CNN and CBS show Biden doing great. On a load of steaming crap.

It's a fucking disgrace, especially considering some of the absolute howlers he made. We kicked fucking Hezbollah out of Lebanon? Ummm.... in what parallel universe was that, Joe? And not a single post-debate commenter said boo.

You may disagree with my political philosophy and you may respect different politicians than I do, but you gotta admit I very rarely type anything here of a factual nature I can't back up solidly. If I did, you better believe there'd be people in this forum crowing about it.

So if I say something of a factual nature (as opposed to opinion) you believe is wrong, you might want to recheck your premises before posting. Up to you, of course.




Phred


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Phred]
    #9027395 - 10/04/08 08:44 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

> polls taken seconds after the debate's end by CNN and CBS show Biden doing great.

As I said before, if those polls were accurate, Ron Paul would be the next president.  With Ron Paul, the MSM quickly took the polls down and went to the pundits instead.  With McCain/Obama, they parade Obama around as if the polls have meaning and he has already won the election.  Another interesting double standard in the non-biased media.  (To be fair, the non-biased Fox News paraded McCain as the clear winner rather than Barry).


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Phred]
    #9029733 - 10/04/08 09:13 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
How many more minutes till we see a similar list from the Obama camp?






This might interest you.



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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: layzdapipe]
    #9030022 - 10/04/08 10:46 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

layzdapipe said:
Quote:

Phred said:
How many more minutes till we see a similar list from the Obama camp?






This might interest you.






What is it with the endless fascination with videos?  Is it that you cannot fisk a video?  Take it apart point by point?  Quote from and piecemeal dice it into little pieces of idiocy?

Videos are for intellectual pussies.  Do you honestly expect anybody to watch an 11 minute video of MSNBC commenting on the debate?  People don't watch MSNBC in real time.


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: zappaisgod]
    #9030027 - 10/04/08 10:48 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Rachel Maddow has less credibility than Keith Olbermann.





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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Phred]
    #9030098 - 10/04/08 11:07 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Is that the one who was picking her teeth up from the sidewalk outside a Manhattan bar?  Oh. never mind, that was Randi Rhodes.


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: zappaisgod]
    #9030138 - 10/04/08 11:19 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I think another link from baseballcrank would have been just as good.


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Phred]
    #9031678 - 10/05/08 11:56 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
Rachel Maddow has less credibility than Keith Olbermann.





Phred




So ive seen you arguing with people, and you expect people (redstorm im sure in my example) to read through pages and pages on websites, but you wont sit and watch a video because she talks against palin? And you talk about other people not wanting to hear "both sides of the table". Look at that quote she took from reagan, about medicare, she makes it into a war quote. Her shit stinks more than you think.

GFY


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: layzdapipe]
    #9031704 - 10/05/08 12:08 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I'm sorry, while I resent Phred's constant poisoning the well strategies, I agree that youtube is a distinctly annoying format.


You sit there watching some crap that may or may not have anything to do with anything it was proffered to demonstrate.

And regardless, it is assuredly much more time intensive than simply reading the damn points.

Video is a very poor format to convey an argument in.


Coaster was arguing the rich pay less taxes, proportionally, than the poor, and that there's some 'green' energy source cheaper than coal once economies of scale are factored in, and when he was challenged he posted some 40minute diatribe by Gore.  No sources, no clear relevance, just empty rhetoric.


This is emblematic of the failings of youtube videos as either an efficient means of conveying an arugment or of being relevant whatsoever in even a generous minority of the cases they're posted.


Its like getting hit by 30 irrelevant Luddite links, only it takes you half an hour to determine they're entirely unrelated/worthless instead of 30 seconds.


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: layzdapipe]
    #9031737 - 10/05/08 12:26 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I don't need to watch all eleven minutes of Rachel Maddow to know she's not the source for anything factual regarding Palin. Maddow is a hyper-partisan Leftard, and makes no bones about it.

As it happens, I did watch the first few minutes of the vid just to see what it was about. Maddow claims Palin "misquoted" Reagan. Palin didn't misquote Reagan at all. It's just that Maddow is all flabbergasted that the Reagan quote Palin used was from a radio address of his warning against the slippery slope socialized medicine leads to. So what, exactly, was Palin's crime here?

The idea was that the Leftards are all upset about the hundreds of blogs listing Biden's two dozen instances of bullshit-spewing during the debate, so Maddow was attempting to claim Palin was just as bad. But she didn't show this. Massive fail on Maddow's part.

And I agree with John about the video crap. There are times when no transcripts are available. In that case, watching a short video may be the only way to check a claim. There are also times when nothing will substitute for actually SEEING something disturbing - for example the video I posted recently of the Hitler Jugend Obama Youth BORG. There's no way to make a transcript of that display of indoctrination, it has to be witnessed to grasp the full spectacle.

But dueling videos as a primary discussion tool? No way.


Phred


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Phred]
    #9031758 - 10/05/08 12:34 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
Palin didn't misquote Reagan at all. It's just that Maddow is all flabbergasted that the Reagan quote Palin used was from a radio address of his warning against the slippery slope socialized medicine leads to. So what, exactly, was Palin's crime here?




seems reagan was right, we now have a marxist running for
office on the big ticket, how long before we reflect on the
age of free men


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #9031805 - 10/05/08 12:49 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I've said it here before and I'll say it here again now... if Obama wins this election, by this time next year we'll all be fondly reminiscing about the Bush era.

Well... maybe Annapurna1 won't be. But all the rest of us will.





Phred


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Phred]
    #9031826 - 10/05/08 12:54 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Im not going to type the whole video out for you just because you refuse to watch a video that isnt good about palin, if it were flipped youd be all over the video. It talks about mccain talking about eisenhowers letters, look at 7 minutes to 8 minutes of the video it says quite a few things she messed up on. She quoted jefferson, something he didnt even say, and when they contacted the mccain administration about that quote, they said theyd have to get back to them. You didnt watch the video, so how the hell are you going to ask me this question. There was another quote she pulled out of her ass and said it was from someone, who it wasnt even from again.

Quote:

So what, exactly, was Palin's crime here?




Dont ask questions like those if you dont view the whole text or video someone gives you to look at. From just yesterday and today reading from your other thread that is about palin and how you bitch at people for not wanting to see both sides of the table OR reading/looking at something you gave them to look at fully, I can already see that you, phred, are nothing more than a hypocrite. Im just going to put you on my ignore list, your not worth talking to. As ive done stated, get out of your dream world, palin is far from perfect. You talk about obama changing his views on shit, everyone changes their views on somethings at some point in time, even mccain, and palin.


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: layzdapipe]
    #9031894 - 10/05/08 01:10 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

This thread is about the two dozen instances during the debate on Thursday where Biden spewed bullshit.

Palin, on the other hand, mispronounced the name of a general serving in Afghanistan and perhaps misquoted Thomas Jefferson. Maybe she did get the quote wrong, maybe she didn't. For the sake of argument let's  assume she did screw up a Jefferson quote.

That still leaves no comparison whatever to Slow Joe Biden, whether measured by quantity (two dozen for Joe, two or three for Palin) or by quality (the incredible stupidity of the "kicking Hezbollah out of Lebanon" bullshit versus mispronouncing a name).

What's more important here is not the incredibly high bullshit content of Biden's speech, but the MSM's non-reaction to it. Biden is getting a complete pass on many, MANY major blunders as well as outright lies, but Palin's comments are being dissected phrase by phrase and her very minor slipups are being trumpeted loudly and repeatedly as some sign of her evil deceptive Republican wiles or something.

The media is so far in the tank for Obama/Biden it's beyond parody.





Phred


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: layzdapipe]
    #9031898 - 10/05/08 01:11 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

You still don't fucking get it, do you?  Content is irrelevant to our objection.  If you can't make a point in print you can't make a point.  You can at least skim almost any article in one or two minutes and usually you can read the whole thing.  With a video you have to sit through what is mostly filler to glean one statement.  Even Phred's Obamaborg video, which video is the actual subject of the post, only has to be watched for less than a minute to understand.  These 10 minutes of bullshit for 30 seconds of content are ridiculous.  Learn to read.  It's fundamental.


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: layzdapipe]
    #9031901 - 10/05/08 01:13 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

layzdapipe said:

Quote:

So what, exactly, was Palin's crime here?




Dont ask questions like those if you dont view the whole text or video someone gives you to look at. From just yesterday and today reading from your other thread that is about palin and how you bitch at people for not wanting to see both sides of the table OR reading/looking at something you gave them to look at fully, I can already see that you, phred, are nothing more than a hypocrite. Im just going to put you on my ignore list, your not worth talking to. As ive done stated, get out of your dream world, palin is far from perfect. You talk about obama changing his views on shit, everyone changes their views on somethings at some point in time, even mccain, and palin.




It would have taken you less text to just answer the fucking question.


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Phred]
    #9032021 - 10/05/08 01:41 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Just to prove my point, I wasted the fifteen minutes to watch that crap. I say fifteen minutes because I have a very slow third world connection... lots of pauses in my download.

As I suspected, out of that eleven minutes there was just thirty seconds (at around seven minutes in) devoted to listing Palin's supposed errors. And again, as I suspected, out of the five or six she mentioned, Maddow got half of them wrong, and the other half were the minor mis-steps like mispronouncing a general's name (the horror!) and getting the number of troops in Iraq off by a little bit. Maddow claims Palin mis-stated the general's position: she did not. The general has said that he endorses the idea of having more troops on hand. Maddow claims Obama did not vote against funding the troops: he did vote against funding the troops. Maddow claims Palin said Obama would raise taxes on people making just 42,000 a year, but that Obama said no such thing. That's hair-splitting. Obama has stated he wants to fix taxes at the same level as they were in the Clinton years. If they were raised to that level, then someone making 42,000 a year would be paying more taxes than they do today. 

Here's the thing - I knew as soon as I saw it was Rachel Maddow that she'd get it wrong. She's Rachel Maddow. A female Keith Olbermann. Of course she'll get things wrong. And when I let you badger me into proving my prediction, I ended up wasting my limited time. There was thirty seconds of that video detailing Palin's "errors", yet I had to sit through six hundred and thirty more seconds (plus another two hundred and forty seconds of download buffering) to see that thirty seconds. And at the end of all that, half of what she said was wrong.

So... Palin's actual errors at the debate? She mispronounced a general's name, got the current number of troops in Iraq off by a few thousand, and mis-stated McCain's position on a bailout bill that had changed more times in the last twenty-four hours than Maddow changes her underwear in a year.

Compare this to Biden's lengthy and vastly more embarrassing list.

See.... this is why I don't watch videos. It's not because I'm afraid my position will be refuted, it's because it's a massive waste of time.

So in future if you want to delude yourself into thinking you've scored some kind of debating points off me, just post another lengthy video from some Leftard bint and claim my refusal to watch it validates your point. Because I will not watch the next one.




Phred


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Phred]
    #9032123 - 10/05/08 02:07 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
So... Palin's actual errors at the debate? She mispronounced a general's name, got the current number of troops in Iraq off by a few thousand, and mis-stated McCain's position on a bailout bill that had changed more times in the last twenty-four hours than Maddow changes her underwear in a year.





She would have made more errors if she didnt evade questions by talking about energy until she ran out of time. You stated 3 things there I had 8 or 9 written down (some were ones you said were false), I didnt post them because I decided your zappa puppet isnt worth replying to.

With that being said, you shouldve just said you have a 56k modem. I do agree with palin on some things, I for some reason just feel she might not be the best option for the war. And when she started talking about afghanistan she scared me a little bit, Who are we at war with here, iran, iraq, and afghanistan? I feel like we need someone who knows more than I do, on sunni, shiites, and whatever other muslims there are, in office. I do not know much to nothing about muslims, extremists, al quaeda and it seems like i know just as much as mccain/palin, is that the type of knowledge you want in office during a time of war? Someone who fires blindly because they dont even know whos pulling the trigger at them?

But when she says energy is the key to american future, I kind of agree with her on that and she would be best for that area. But what good is energy gonna do us when we get nuked from fucking around in the middle east, when we should just let them kill eachother off and make it their problem? And attack the ones who attack us, not the people beside them.


She said obamas tax plans would ruin americas economy, lose more jobs, and destroy business something along those lines im not going to watch the vp debate again for an exact quote, and I dont see where she is coming from on that. Obamas plan to me sounds like it would be more of a balance for the economy.


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: layzdapipe]
    #9032161 - 10/05/08 02:17 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)



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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Coaster]
    #9032207 - 10/05/08 02:33 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Coaster said:





i liked this one from the related



The ending is priceless.


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: layzdapipe]
    #9032250 - 10/05/08 02:42 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I have an idea.  Let's just disable videos in the Politics Forum.  They do nothing to further debate.


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: zappaisgod]
    #9032285 - 10/05/08 02:48 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I have an idea.  Let's just disable videos in the Politics Forum.  They do nothing to further debate.




Lets disable text too, you wouldnt mind videos if you had something over 56k.


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: layzdapipe]
    #9032310 - 10/05/08 02:52 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

No, I still would, for the reasons Phred described.  5% content, 95% filler that you can't skip.  You can't cut and paste it and you can't debate it.  Videos are for intellectual cowards and lightweights.  Further, the preponderance of Coaster's posts consist entirely of videos with no other content at all.  People whine about Luddite's naked cut and paste jobs.  What about this crap?


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: zappaisgod]
    #9032316 - 10/05/08 02:55 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
No, I still would, for the reasons I described.




The reason that you use a 56k modem?


If your reading an article why would you skip parts of it, youmight miss something important that if you miss and try to debate over make you look retarded. Videos are acceptable in my book.

And you can skip through videos just as if you were reading, if you ever get to load one fully youd find that out.


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: layzdapipe]
    #9032376 - 10/05/08 03:09 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I skipped the "not".  Under no circumstances will I bother with videos unless the video is the topic.  You most certainly can skim articles.  If there is something there you read closer.  Are you serious?  Videos?  Nope.  Neither can you fisk a video point by point.  They are for cowards.


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: zappaisgod]
    #9032442 - 10/05/08 03:23 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I got another idea that is pure genius, why dont we stay on topic?

Quote:

layzdapipe said:
Quote:

Phred said:
So... Palin's actual errors at the debate? She mispronounced a general's name, got the current number of troops in Iraq off by a few thousand, and mis-stated McCain's position on a bailout bill that had changed more times in the last twenty-four hours than Maddow changes her underwear in a year.





She would have made more errors if she didnt evade questions by talking about energy until she ran out of time. You stated 3 things there I had 8 or 9 written down (some were ones you said were false), I didnt post them because I decided your zappa puppet isnt worth replying to.

With that being said, you shouldve just said you have a 56k modem. I do agree with palin on some things, I for some reason just feel she might not be the best option for the war. And when she started talking about afghanistan she scared me a little bit, Who are we at war with here, iran, iraq, and afghanistan? I feel like we need someone who knows more than I do, on sunni, shiites, and whatever other muslims there are, in office. I do not know much to nothing about muslims, extremists, al quaeda and it seems like i know just as much as mccain/palin, is that the type of knowledge you want in office during a time of war? Someone who fires blindly because they dont even know whos pulling the trigger at them?

But when she says energy is the key to american future, I kind of agree with her on that and she would be best for that area. But what good is energy gonna do us when we get nuked from fucking around in the middle east, when we should just let them kill eachother off and make it their problem? And attack the ones who attack us, not the people beside them.


She said obamas tax plans would ruin americas economy, lose more jobs, and destroy business something along those lines im not going to watch the vp debate again for an exact quote, and I dont see where she is coming from on that. Obamas plan to me sounds like it would be more of a balance for the economy.




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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: johnm214]
    #9032513 - 10/05/08 03:38 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
  People whine about Luddite's naked cut and paste jobs.  What about this crap?






Quote:

johnm214 said:
I'm sorry, while I resent Phred's constant poisoning the well strategies, I agree that youtube is a distinctly annoying format.


You sit there watching some crap that may or may not have anything to do with anything it was proffered to demonstrate.

And regardless, it is assuredly much more time intensive than simply reading the damn points.

Video is a very poor format to convey an argument in.


Coaster ...was challenged... posted some 40minute diatribe by Gore.  No sources, no clear relevance, just empty rhetoric.



Its like getting hit by 30 irrelevant Luddite links, only it takes you half an hour to determine they're entirely unrelated/worthless instead of 30 seconds.







It's all the same.


Either off topic spam or a thirty second sound bite in a ten-thirty minute video vs a few sentence, on a good day, in one of the fifty links luddite generally posts.


Either way its a waste of everybody's time and usually of very tangential relevance.



I'm not for banning videos though, just berating coaster and luddite when they post their hit-and-run no discussion bullshit.  A better solution would be to extend the prohibition on new topic posts with no discussion to link or video drive-bys no matter where they appear in the thread.


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: zappaisgod]
    #9032576 - 10/05/08 03:55 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I have an idea.  Let's just disable videos in the Politics Forum.  They do nothing to further debate.





I'm really starting to agree


Quote:

coaster said said:






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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: layzdapipe]
    #9032592 - 10/05/08 04:00 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

layzdapipe said:

She would have made more errors if she didnt evade questions by talking about energy until she ran out of time.




Let's actually deal with the errors she did make instead of inventing errors she didn't OK?  Are you sure your not Rachel Maddow?
Quote:

You stated 3 things there I had 8 or 9 written down (some were ones you said were false), I didnt post them because I decided your zappa puppet isnt worth replying to.




You didn't post them because you are lazy and or know they are bullshit.  Phred's puppet?  Not as far as you know.
Quote:



With that being said, you shouldve just said you have a 56k modem. I do agree with palin on some things, I for some reason just feel she might not be the best option for the war. And when she started talking about afghanistan she scared me a little bit, Who are we at war with here, iran, iraq, and afghanistan?



What the fuck are you talking about?  Nobody knows because there is no text to refer to even if one had watched the dumb MSNBC bint whine
Quote:



I feel like we need someone who knows more than I do, on sunni, shiites, and whatever other muslims there are, in office.


  That would be just about everyone.  Do you honestly believe Barry is more knowledgable than McCain or that Biden, who thinks we kicked Hez out of Leb, is?  Clearly the most knowledgable candidate in this whole race is McCain
Quote:

I do not know much to nothing about muslims, extremists, al quaeda and it seems like i know just as much as mccain/palin, is that the type of knowledge you want in office during a time of war?



It only seems that way to an ignorant person, which you profess to be.
Quote:


Someone who fires blindly because they dont even know whos pulling the trigger at them?



Huh?
Quote:



But when she says energy is the key to american future, I kind of agree with her on that and she would be best for that area. But what good is energy gonna do us when we get nuked from fucking around in the middle east, when we should just let them kill eachother off and make it their problem? And attack the ones who attack us, not the people beside them.



We won't get nuked from fucking around in the Mid-East, we'll get nuked from not fucking around enough.  "Ooooh they are so big and scary lets hide under the bed and hope they don't hurt us."  Now there's some hopey changitude.  I have a better idea, let's just take them at their word and stop them now as well as persuade them that just maybe it is in their best interests not to fuck with us or our friends.  But that is ranging far from the "mistakes Palin made" topic of this thread, which at this point should just disappear in a puff of smoke since there doesn't really seem to be any substance.  At least according to you.
Quote:




She said obamas tax plans would ruin americas economy, lose more jobs, and destroy business something along those lines im not going to watch the vp debate again for an exact quote, and I dont see where she is coming from on that. Obamas plan to me sounds like it would be more of a balance for the economy.




Well that once again fails to elucidate a mistake by Palin.  Can't you ever stay on topic?  For a further detour I will quote you
im not going to watch the vp debate again for an exact quote
:rofl2:


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: layzdapipe]
    #9032599 - 10/05/08 04:01 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Don't you now wish we had stayed off topic?


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: zappaisgod]
    #9032641 - 10/05/08 04:10 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
We won't get nuked from fucking around in the Mid-East, we'll get nuked from not fucking around enough.




wow, just wow.


:nonono:


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Edited by piracetam (10/05/08 04:23 PM)


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: piracetam]
    #9032665 - 10/05/08 04:15 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

What exactly is idiotic about that statement? It's common knowledge that they would love to see our demise by any means necessary. In your fantasy land it may be alright to allow your enemies to manufacture weapons equal to your own but back here in the real world that is fucking retarded and suicidal.


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: THE KRAT BARON]
    #9032690 - 10/05/08 04:20 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

you honestly thing they're advanced enough that they have ICBMs to reach us? do you think most all the plutonium on the planet isn't accounted for?

paranoid much?

in my fantasy land, they'd love to see the mcdonald's and kfc's off of their holy land, that's pretty much it.
but I'm not paranoid enough to think they'll try to rid us of freedom on the homefront or destroy us, that's brainwashed jarhead talk.

talk about tinfoil hat theories...


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: piracetam]
    #9032720 - 10/05/08 04:28 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

No I do not believe they (speaking on Iran) have the ability to touch us right now and so long as we stay vigilant they never will. Even if they were to acquire nuclear weapons they would not beat us but they could kill hundreds of thousands - millions. Why do you believe we should allow our enemies to manufacture such weapons?


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: piracetam]
    #9032736 - 10/05/08 04:31 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

They have one hell of a lot better imagination than you do.


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Phred]
    #9032770 - 10/05/08 04:37 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

September 30, 1999

Fannie Mae Eases Credit To Aid Mortgage Lending 
By STEVEN A. HOLMES 

In a move that could help increase home ownership rates among minorities and low-income consumers, the Fannie Mae Corporation is easing the credit requirements on loans that it will purchase from banks and other lenders. 
The action, which will begin as a pilot program involving 24 banks in 15 markets -- including the New York metropolitan region -- will encourage those banks to extend home mortgages to individuals whose credit is generally not good enough to qualify for conventional loans. Fannie Mae officials say they hope to make it a nationwide program by next spring. 
Fannie Mae, the nation's biggest underwriter of home mortgages, has been under increasing pressure from the Clinton Administration to expand mortgage loans among low and moderate income people and felt pressure from stock holders to maintain its phenomenal growth in profits. 
In addition, banks, thrift institutions and mortgage companies have been pressing Fannie Mae to help them make more loans to so-called subprime borrowers. These borrowers whose incomes, credit ratings and savings are not good enough to qualify for conventional loans, can only get loans from finance companies that charge much higher interest rates -- anywhere from three to four percentage points higher than conventional loans. 
''Fannie Mae has expanded home ownership for millions of families in the 1990's by reducing down payment requirements,'' said Franklin D. Raines, Fannie Mae's chairman and chief executive officer. ''Yet there remain too many borrowers whose credit is just a notch below what our underwriting has required who have been relegated to paying significantly higher mortgage rates in the so-called subprime market.'' 
Demographic information on these borrowers is sketchy. But at least one study indicates that 18 percent of the loans in the subprime market went to black borrowers, compared to 5 per cent of loans in the conventional loan market. 
In moving, even tentatively, into this new area of lending, Fannie Mae is taking on significantly more risk, which may not pose any difficulties during flush economic times. But the government-subsidized corporation may run into trouble in an economic downturn, prompting a government rescue similar to that of the savings and loan industry in the 1980's. 
''From the perspective of many people, including me, this is another thrift industry growing up around us,'' said Peter Wallison a resident fellow at the American Enterprise Institute. ''If they fail, the government will have to step up and bail them out the way it stepped up and bailed out the thrift industry.'' 
Under Fannie Mae's pilot program, consumers who qualify can secure a mortgage with an interest rate one percentage point above that of a conventional, 30-year fixed rate mortgage of less than $240,000 -- a rate that currently averages about 7.76 per cent. If the borrower makes his or her monthly payments on time for two years, the one percentage point premium is dropped. 
Fannie Mae, the nation's biggest underwriter of home mortgages, does not lend money directly to consumers. Instead, it purchases loans that banks make on what is called the secondary market. By expanding the type of loans that it will buy, Fannie Mae is hoping to spur banks to make more loans to people with less-than-stellar credit ratings.


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: zappaisgod]
    #9032777 - 10/05/08 04:38 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:



With that being said, you shouldve just said you have a 56k modem. I do agree with palin on some things, I for some reason just feel she might not be the best option for the war. And when she started talking about afghanistan she scared me a little bit, Who are we at war with here, iran, iraq, and afghanistan?



What the fuck are you talking about?  Nobody knows because there is no text to refer to even if one had watched the dumb MSNBC bint whine

----------

Im not talking about MSNBC what im referring to here is the actual fucking debate. What this threads topic is on. Maybe if you stayed on topic you would understand.


Quote:


I feel like we need someone who knows more than I do, on sunni, shiites, and whatever other muslims there are, in office.


  That would be just about everyone.  Do you honestly believe Barry is more knowledgable than McCain or that Biden, who thinks we kicked Hez out of Leb, is?  Clearly the most knowledgable candidate in this whole race is McCain

-----------

"They are training al quaeda, oh im sorry i meant extremeist they are training extremist" Countless amounts of times mccain has showed himself ignorant on muslims. Shit hes clueless about anything foreign thinking spains leader was in mexico, where the fuck have you been? Youve been watching obama too much so you can criticize him not paying attention to Mccain. Thats where youve been. Oh and FYI Ron Paul is way more intelligent than mccain on anything related to being foreign.


Quote:


I do not know much to nothing about muslims, extremists, al quaeda and it seems like i know just as much as mccain/palin, is that the type of knowledge you want in office during a time of war?



It only seems that way to an ignorant person, which you profess to be.

-----

What I said is a fact. They are fucking clueless, maybe your just too blind to see it, no wait your just clueless too.

This part is a mess where im at so I took out all your bullshit so I can write where people can read it easily.

on the war I said we should attack people that attacked us, if we did this in the first place we probably wouldve went to afghanistan first, not iraq. Most of your attacks on me are invalid.

Quote:

We won't get nuked from fucking around in the Mid-East, we'll get nuked from not fucking around enough.



Ok, sure, why not, lets stay there when the reason 9/11 happened in the first place is because we have sanctions and shit there that they do not want there.


Quote:

I have a better idea, let's just take them at their word and stop them now as well as persuade them that just maybe it is in their best interests not to fuck with us or our friends.




Problem is your just as clueless as mccain and have no idea who to attack. So all your strategies might work for what you want them to do, but are not working for what needs to be done.

Now your saying im going off topic for not quoting palin exactly. THAT WAS ON TOPIC YOU FUCKING DIMWIT, Obamas plans wont do what she said they would. Your the one who goes off topic talking about this and talking about that, ever since I said lets get back on topic, your trying to sit here and act like My post that was on topic, in little pieces was off topic. And you call me ignorant, your the definition of ignorant, your the kind of people palin will be helping because she had a son thats just like you and can relate to what your family is going through with your disabilities.





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InvisibleTHE KRAT BARON
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: zappaisgod]
    #9032780 - 10/05/08 04:39 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I honestly do not understand how somebody could justify allowing a bunch of fanatics to manufacture nuclear weapons. Could somebody please explain this to me?


--------------------
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: piracetam]
    #9032787 - 10/05/08 04:39 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

piracetam said:
in my fantasy land, they'd love to see the mcdonald's and kfc's off of their holy land, that's pretty much it.




yep... fantasy



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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: THE KRAT BARON]
    #9032800 - 10/05/08 04:43 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

matt said:
I honestly do not understand how somebody could justify allowing a bunch of fanatics to manufacture nuclear weapons. Could somebody please explain this to me?





United States of Mother Fucking America!

Booyah!


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InvisibleTHE KRAT BARON
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #9032808 - 10/05/08 04:44 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

matt said:
I honestly do not understand how somebody could justify allowing a bunch of fanatics to manufacture nuclear weapons. Could somebody please explain this to me?





United States of Mother Fucking America!

Booyah!






--------------------
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: layzdapipe]
    #9032857 - 10/05/08 04:57 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

layzdapipe writes:

Quote:

on the war I said we should attack people that attacked us, if we did this in the first place we probably wouldve went to afghanistan first, not iraq.




But of course the US did attack Al Qaeda in Afghanistan before resuming the supended hostilities in Iraq. However, that has nothing to do with the topic of Biden's bullshit spewed during Thursday night's debate.

Quote:

Ok, sure, why not, lets stay there when the reason 9/11 happened in the first place is because we have sanctions and shit there that they do not want there.




Osama bin Laden said the reason for the attack was that when the Saudi Arabian government asked the US to leave a garrison of troops behind in Saudi Arabia in 1991 in case Saddam Hussein got uppity again, the US agreed to do so. However, that has nothing to do with the topic of Biden's bullshit spewed during Thursday night's debate.

Quote:

THAT WAS ON TOPIC YOU FUCKING DIMWIT...




and
Quote:

...your the kind of people palin will be helping because she had a son thats just like you and can relate to what your family is going through with your disabilities.




... have nothing to do with the topic of Biden's bullshit spewed during Thursday night's debate. They are, however, violations of the forum rules on flaming, and have earned you a ban. See you tomorrow.






Phred


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Phred]
    #9032869 - 10/05/08 04:59 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Without a warning?


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Offlinepiracetam
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #9032932 - 10/05/08 05:15 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

piracetam said:
in my fantasy land, they'd love to see the mcdonald's and kfc's off of their holy land, that's pretty much it.




yep... fantasy






and those would be...?

not militant islamic fundamentalists (who we're talking about), obviously


--------------------
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: piracetam]
    #9032937 - 10/05/08 05:17 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

why no, I believe those are Iraqis guarding their first and only
McDonalds to ensure that no one comes in and blows it up


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #9032939 - 10/05/08 05:18 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

of course they could be safeguarding the national health by
preventing people from entering, it's hard to tell the difference


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #9032943 - 10/05/08 05:20 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
of course they could be safeguarding the national health by
preventing people from entering, it's hard to tell the difference




:lol:


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Offlinepiracetam
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #9032954 - 10/05/08 05:22 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

i rest my case.

plenty of islamic arabs, iranians, and iraqis in the US, who could just as easily blow up a McD's...yet they don't.

the idea of some militant islam fundamentalists launching nukes at us is something out of a hollywood movie script, and arguably about as far-fetched as the second coming of jesus. a detonated "dirty bomb" near a US embassy abroad would be a more likely scenario, but not nearly as effective.


--------------------
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #9033160 - 10/05/08 06:01 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Back on topic, please, folks. I don't recall Biden getting the number of MacDonald's in Baghdad incorrect. Or claiming Islamic terrorists wouldn't be dlighted to get their hands on material for a nuke device of any kind, dirty or not.

He made enough actual bullshit claims without us having to invent more.




Phred


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: piracetam]
    #9033334 - 10/05/08 06:37 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

piracetam said:
i rest my case.

plenty of islamic arabs, iranians, and iraqis in the US, who could just as easily blow up a McD's...yet they don't.





this guys could have just asked them to leave the cheese off
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0003/01/bn.04.html

Maybe these guys needed to get a happy meal
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/733949.stm

I'm Bombin' it!
http://www.voanews.com/english/archive/2007-02/2007-02-20-voa1.cfm?CFID=49083777&CFTOKEN=78138787


seems most of the world doesnt like the Filet-O-Fish


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: layzdapipe]
    #9033451 - 10/05/08 07:05 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

layzdapipe said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:



With that being said, you shouldve just said you have a 56k modem. I do agree with palin on some things, I for some reason just feel she might not be the best option for the war. And when she started talking about afghanistan she scared me a little bit, Who are we at war with here, iran, iraq, and afghanistan?



What the fuck are you talking about?  Nobody knows because there is no text to refer to even if one had watched the dumb MSNBC bint whine

----------

Im not talking about MSNBC what im referring to here is the actual fucking debate. What this threads topic is on. Maybe if you stayed on topic you would understand.




There are many places to find a transcript of the debate.  It's easy.  Why, I just googled "vp debate transcript" and found hundreds of links faster than I typed this sentence.  Since the only source for her alleged errors you have ever cited is the Rachel Madcow video I assumed that was all you knew.  Silly me.
Quote:




Quote:


I feel like we need someone who knows more than I do, on sunni, shiites, and whatever other muslims there are, in office.


  That would be just about everyone.  Do you honestly believe Barry is more knowledgable than McCain or that Biden, who thinks we kicked Hez out of Leb, is?  Clearly the most knowledgable candidate in this whole race is McCain

-----------

"They are training al quaeda, oh im sorry i meant extremeist they are training extremist" Countless amounts of times mccain has showed himself ignorant on muslims. Shit hes clueless about anything foreign thinking spains leader was in mexico, where the fuck have you been? Youve been watching obama too much so you can criticize him not paying attention to Mccain. Thats where youve been. Oh and FYI Ron Paul is way more intelligent than mccain on anything related to being foreign.




Link please to any McCain quote that says what you say he says.  Do you really think McCain thinks the Spain's leader was in Mexico?  Who knows, maybe he was visiting.  But we'll never know because YOU do not know how to frame an argument with evidence.  And Ron Paul is a fucking retard who thinks there is a NAFTA superhighway among other idiocies.
Quote:




Quote:


I do not know much to nothing about muslims, extremists, al quaeda and it seems like i know just as much as mccain/palin, is that the type of knowledge you want in office during a time of war?



It only seems that way to an ignorant person, which you profess to be.

-----

What I said is a fact. They are fucking clueless, maybe your just too blind to see it, no wait your just clueless too.




What you said is that you didn't know anything about them there Muslims.  That is a statement I would never argue with.  Since you admittedly know nothing about Muslims whose parrot are you?  Surely you can't make any judgment about McCain's knowledge on your own.
Quote:



This part is a mess where im at so I took out all your bullshit so I can write where people can read it easily.

on the war I said we should attack people that attacked us, if we did this in the first place we probably wouldve went to afghanistan first, not iraq. Most of your attacks on me are invalid.




Phred took care of this.  Hopefully you are now a little better educated about Muslims.  I doubt it but I still have HOPE.
Quote:



Quote:

We won't get nuked from fucking around in the Mid-East, we'll get nuked from not fucking around enough.



Ok, sure, why not, lets stay there when the reason 9/11 happened in the first place is because we have sanctions and shit there that they do not want there.




Phred took care of this too.
Quote:




Quote:

I have a better idea, let's just take them at their word and stop them now as well as persuade them that just maybe it is in their best interests not to fuck with us or our friends.





Problem is your just as clueless as mccain and have no idea who to attack. So all your strategies might work for what you want them to do, but are not working for what needs to be done.




You have admitted to being unqualified to make any judgment about that
Quote:



Now your saying im going off topic for not quoting palin exactly. THAT WAS ON TOPIC YOU FUCKING DIMWIT, Obamas plans wont do what she said they would. Your the one who goes off topic talking about this and talking about that, ever since I said lets get back on topic, your trying to sit here and act like My post that was on topic, in little pieces was off topic. And you call me ignorant, your the definition of ignorant, your the kind of people palin will be helping because she had a son thats just like you and can relate to what your family is going through with your disabilities.








I didn't call you ignorant.  YOU called you ignorant.  You provided no evidence of anything.  No quotes, no examples, nothing except a stupid video by  that daft bint Rachel Madcow.  I happen to think that Palin is quite right that Barry's economic plan is a disaster.  So do hundreds and hundreds of credentialed experts.  There are also experts who disagree.  I don't know why since the whole "fuck the rich even more" scheme never really works but so what.  That is not an error that Palin made, it's a difference of opinion.  Where's the fucking errors?

Meanwhile, SloJo's whopper list just gros and gros.  Cheers:cool:


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OfflinePhred
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Phred]
    #9049018 - 10/08/08 07:07 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Well, folks, here we are a week after the debate, and the mainstream media is flooding the airwaves with reports of Biden's gobsmackingly stupid gaffes, lies, misrememberings and gibberish. Oh, wait.... no they're not.

Does anyone think if Palin had said any of that crap the media "factcheckers" would give her a pass? Fuck no. This drives the final nail into the coffin of all the chuckleheads out there who still insist - against all available evidence - there is no Liberal bias in the mainstream media. Even FOX News has pretty much given Biden a pass on this except for Britt Hume's one-time comments immediately following the debate. Our oh-so-professional press, with all its layers of editors and factcheckers, can't come up with in a week what pajamas-clad bloggers hunched over their keyboards came up with in less than an hour. Over two dozen errors noted by now.

Here's every Libbie's favorite political commenter, Ann Coulter, with her inimitable take on Ole Slow Joe's performance -

Quote:

If Sarah Palin had made just one of the wildly inaccurate statements smugly uttered by Sen. Joe Biden in last week's vice presidential debate, there would have been 3-inch headlines in newspapers across America. (I can almost hear Katie Couric asking me, "Which newspapers?")

These weren't insignificant errors, such as when Biden said, "Look, all you have to do is go down Union Street with me in Wilmington or go to Katie's restaurant or walk into Home Depot with me where I spend a lot of time, and you ask anybody in there whether or not the economic and foreign policy of this administration has made them better off in the last eight years."

It turns out that Katie's restaurant, where Biden gets his feel for the average American, closed 20 years ago. The only evidence that he spends any time in Home Depot is that it appears that a pipe wrench fell on his head one too many times.

Palin would surely have been forced to withdraw from the ticket had she said something like that, but most of Biden's errors were not trifling mistakes like these. They were lengthy Lyndon LaRouche-like disquisitions that were pure fantasy from beginning to end.

For example, Biden said about Hezbollah: "When we kicked -- along with France -- we kicked Hezbollah out of Lebanon." Hezbollah was never kicked out of Lebanon.

He continued: "I said and Barack said, 'Move NATO forces in there. Fill the vacuum, because if you don't, Hezbollah will control it.'" This is madness -- Lebanon is not a NATO country, nor had any NATO country been attacked by Lebanon.

Somebody please tell me that Biden wasn't picked for the Democrat ticket based on his knowledge of foreign policy.

Biden also stoutly denied that Obama ever said he would sit down with Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Liberals find it hilarious that McCain can't use a computer keyboard on account of his war injuries, but Biden is apparently unaware of the Internet, because there are clips all over the Internet of Obama saying exactly that during the CNN/YouTube debate last year.

Biden might have remembered that debate since: (1) He was there, and (2) he later attacked Obama's answer, telling the National Press Club in August 2007: "Would I make a blanket commitment to meet unconditionally with the leaders of each of those countries within the first year I was elected president? Absolutely, positively, no."

And that's still not all! Obama's own Web site says: "Obama supports tough, direct presidential diplomacy with Iran without preconditions."

Somebody please tell me that Biden wasn't picked for the Democrat ticket based on his ability to remember well-known facts.

Biden also gave a long speech at the debate on vice president Dick Cheney's "dangerous" belief that "he's part of the legislative branch." The great constitutional scholar Biden cited Article I of the Constitution as proof that Cheney "works in the executive branch" and has "no authority relative to the Congress." Biden huffily added: "He should understand that. Everyone should understand that."

Palin would have had to deny that Alaska is a state in the union in order to say something comparably stupid.

Article II, not I, describes the executive branch. Someone tell Biden, who is supposed to be a lawyer. Apart from getting the Articles of the Constitution mixed up, what on earth does Biden mean when he says that the vice president "has no authority relative to Congress," apart from breaking ties?

The Constitution makes him president of the senate every day of the week. I realize that Biden may not be able to count to two, but Article I says the vice president is president of one of the two houses of Congress -- the one Biden is in, for crying out loud -- which is what you might call "authority relative to Congress."

Somebody please tell me that Biden wasn't picked for the Democrat ticket based on his knowledge of the Constitution.

In one especially hallucinatory answer, Biden authoritatively stated: "With Afghanistan, facts matter, Gwen. ... We spend more money in three weeks on combat in Iraq than we spent on the entirety of the last seven years that we have been in Afghanistan building that country."

According to the Congressional Research Service, since 9/11, we've spent $172 billion in Afghanistan and $653 billion in Iraq. The most money spent in Iraq came in 2008, when we have been spending less than $3 billion a week. So by Biden's calculations, we've spent only about $9 billion "on the entirety of the last seven years that we have been in Afghanistan building that country." There isn't even a "9" in $172 billion.

Somebody please tell me that Biden wasn't picked for the Democrat ticket based on his knowledge of math.

In the same answer, Biden went on to claim that "John McCain voted against a comprehensive nuclear test ban treaty that every Republican has supported."

The last nuclear test ban treaty the Senate voted on was the one Clinton signed in the '90s. As The New York Times editorialized on the Senate vote a few years later: "Last week, Senate Republicans thundered 'no' to the nuclear test ban treaty, handing the White House its biggest defeat since health care in 1994." Forty-nine Republicans voted against the treaty; only four liberal Republicans voted for it. That's the treaty Biden says "every Republican has supported."

Somebody please tell me that Biden wasn't picked for the Democrat ticket based on his ability to function as vice president.

COPYRIGHT 2008 ANN COULTER
DISTRIBUTED BY UNIVERSAL PRESS SYNDICATE
4520 Main Street, Kansas City, MO 64111




Selah.





Phred


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Phred]
    #9049105 - 10/08/08 07:23 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Heh. Jonah Goldberg weighs in -

Quote:

Biden, the Master Gasbag
Imagine if Palin had made any of these gaffes.

By Jonah Goldberg

Yes, this morning everyone will be talking about last night’s presidential debate. But I can’t get over Thursday’s vice presidential contest. It was the most revealing, and depressing, event of the entire campaign because it showed how irredeemably fraudulent America’s political class is and how superficial the swing voters who will decide this election are.

Going into the debate, the conventional wisdom was that Sarah Palin would be woefully outgunned by Joe Biden. A self-touted foreign policy expert and constitutional law professor, Biden joined the Senate some time after the Cretaceous period but well before bell-bottoms went out of style.

As we know, the conventional wisdom was wrong. Palin wasn’t stellar. But she crushed those low expectations, salvaged her political career and turned herself back into an asset for the McCain campaign.

But what about Biden? Overwhelmingly, the professional political class proclaimed that he blew Palin away on “specifics” and “knowledge” and “seriousness.” The New York Times said Biden avoided making any gaffes, “while showing a clear grasp of the big picture and the details.” The Wall Street Journal’s Gerald Seib proclaimed on ABC’s “This Week” that Biden avoided any “verbal excesses or rhetorical flourishes.”

The Associated Press called Biden the “master senator ... rattling off foreign policy details with ease.”

That’s true in a sense. Biden was at ease; he easily rattled off a string of falsehoods and gasbaggeries.

According to the master senator, the U.S. and France “kicked Hezbollah out of Lebanon.” Afterward, according to Biden, “I said and Barack said, ‘Move NATO forces in there. Fill the vacuum, because if you don’t ... Hezbollah will control it.’” Perhaps Biden meant to say the U.S. and France kicked Syria out of Lebanon. But even this is woefully glib. Syria never fully abandoned Lebanon. And there was no “vacuum” for Hezbollah to fill. The terrorist group was already firmly in control of southern Lebanon and part of the government. No one remembers Biden and Obama fighting for the stupidly impossible NATO move either.

Biden insisted it’s “just simply not true” that Obama has said he’d “sit down with (Iranian President Mahmoud) Ahmadinejad,” even though in the primaries Biden criticized Obama for exactly that.

Biden bragged about how he and Obama have focused on Pakistan, insisting that “Pakistan’s weapons can already hit Israel and the Mediterranean.” Um, no. Their missiles couldn’t get halfway there.

Biden suggested he spearheaded the effort to save “tens of thousands of lives in Bosnia.” He was actually more of a bit player.

The constitutional law professor mocked Dick Cheney because the vice president “doesn’t realize that Article I of the Constitution defines the role of the vice president. That’s the executive branch.” Wrong. Article I defines the Legislature, Article II the executive branch. Both define the role of the VP.

He flatly said that McCain voted with Obama on a tax hike. He didn’t. He said McCain’s health-care plan amounted to a tax hike. It doesn’t. Biden said we “must” drill for oil, but that ain’t how he’s voted. He said he’s for clean coal, but just this month he passionately told a voter, “We’re not supporting clean coal,” and vowed “no coal plants here in America.” The scrapper from Scranton boasted about bonding with the common folks at a restaurant that’s been closed for two decades.

Palin had her own problems. She failed to answer direct questions directly. She offered up some obviously canned one-liners.

But here’s the difference. Palin is supposed to be everything Biden isn’t, according to liberal pundits and mainstream reporters alike. For weeks they’ve been saying she’s ill-prepared, uninformed and lacks the requisite experience. But that criticism is also an excuse of sorts.

Biden has no excuse. He’s been in the majors for nearly 40 years, and yet he sounds like a bizarro-world Chauncey Gardiner. The famous simpleton from Jerzy Kosinski’s “Being There” (played by Peter Sellers in the film) offered terse aphorisms that were utterly devoid of specific content but nonetheless seemed to describe reality accurately. Biden is the reverse: He offers a logorrheic farrago of “specifics” that have no connection to our corner of the space-time continuum.

In short, he just makes stuff up. But he does it with passionate, self-important intensity. He’s like a politician in a movie with a perfect grasp of a world that doesn’t exist. He’s not an expert, he just plays one on TV.

No one seems to care. Biden convinced the focus groups he’s an expert. The media, with a few exceptions, let it all slide. But imagine if Palin had made any of these gaffes. It would be incontrovertible proof that her critics are right.

Palin “lost” because she’s bad at being a dishonest politician. Biden won because he is, after all, a “master senator.”





QFT




Phred


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