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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #9025118 - 10/03/08 08:16 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Gastronomicus said:
Palin's script was good. I liked how she deliberately and proudly ignored Gwen Ifil's questions. I also liked the part where she got the general in Afghanistan's name wrong. Ooh, ooh, but my absolute favorite part was when she said she agreed with Cheney and wants the powers of the Vice President expanded which, as Joe pointed out, is completely unconstitutional.




http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives2/2008/10/021676.php
Quote:

This isn't what's conventionally described as a gaffe, and it won't swing any votes, but last night Joe Biden garbled the Constitutional role of the Vice President. I wanted to read the transcript before commenting; here was Gwen Ifill's question:

    Governor, you mentioned a moment ago the constitution might give the vice president more power than it has in the past. Do you believe as Vice President Cheney does, that the Executive Branch does not hold complete sway over the office of the vice presidency, that it it is also a member of the Legislative Branch?

Here is Biden's answer, in full:

    Vice President Cheney has been the most dangerous vice president we've had probably in American history. The idea he doesn't realize that Article I of the Constitution defines the role of the vice president of the United States, that's the Executive Branch. He works in the Executive Branch. He should understand that. Everyone should understand that.

    And the primary role of the vice president of the United States of America is to support the president of the United States of America, give that president his or her best judgment when sought, and as vice president, to preside over the Senate, only in a time when in fact there's a tie vote. The Constitution is explicit.

    The only authority the vice president has from the legislative standpoint is the vote, only when there is a tie vote. He has no authority relative to the Congress. The idea he's part of the Legislative Branch is a bizarre notion invented by Cheney to aggrandize the power of a unitary executive and look where it has gotten us. It has been very dangerous.

For a man of Biden's experience, this is a surprising series of misstatements. First of all, he gets wrong one of the most basic facts about the Constitution: Article 1 establishes the legislative branch, not, as Biden said, the executive branch. This is not exactly an obscure fact; my 17-year-old daughter pointed it out at the time.

Second, it simply isn't true that the Constitution treats the Vice President only as a member of the executive branch. The Vice President is mentioned in Article II as part of the executive branch, but he is also given legislative powers by Section 3 of Article 1, which establishes the Senate:

    The Vice President of the United States shall be President of the Senate, but shall have no Vote, unless they be equally divided.

Vice President Cheney's "bizarre notion" is in keeping with the plain text of the Constitution.

Finally, Biden misstated the Vice President's role in the Senate. It isn't true that he "preside[s] over the Senate, only in a time when in fact there's a tie vote." The Constitution contemplates that the Vice President will be the full-time President of the Senate, replaced by a President pro tempore "in the absence of the Vice President." It's true that the Vice President only gets to vote in case of a tie; but, of course, that's the only time it matters.

If Joe Biden were a high school student taking a test on the Constitution in a government course, he would get a C or a D. Some would say his mistakes were minor, and, as I said, they certainly won't swing any votes. But it is distinctly odd that a man who has been in the Senate for more than three decades doesn't understand the Constitutional role of the Vice President with respect to that body.





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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks [Re: lonestar2004]
    #9025204 - 10/03/08 08:36 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
I know Fox news was just talking about her name mistake!

Bastards! No one is talking about Bidens lies!


Could you imagine if Palin had said this?

Biden: “The idea he [Cheney] doesn’t realize that Article I of the Constitution defines the role of the vice president of the United States, that’s the Executive Branch. He works in the Executive Branch. He should understand that. Everyone should understand that.”


The MSM would be asking McCain to drop her off the ticket!






What are you refering to?  That Article I is the congress, and so that implies that the vice president is really more of a congressional official than presidential?


I agree this is pretty weird if Biden didn't know article I was re: congress...

Really, it appears the V.P. can run the senate, from my understanding, but pretty much chooses not to.  (I know he gets paid by the senate/congress and not the white house.


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OnlineGastronomicus
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Phred]
    #9025714 - 10/03/08 10:21 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
Biden made at least 20 total bullshit statements - including screwing up the whole Constitutional description of the VP's duties just about as badly as it could possibly be screwed up





Just about. The only way one could do worse is by making up some bizarre garbage about how the Constitution gives the Vice President flexibility. Now lets go after this so called list of lies.

#2 Categorically false, this is not Obama's position, he has made that clear. Only thick headed McCaininites like yourself think that this is a lie.

#3 Out of context. Biden said that, but said that it'll take 10 years to see any oil out of it. He said "in the meantime, we're all going to be in real trouble."

#4 If you actually read what you say, it's laughable. A translation: John McCain was opposed to the bill but Bush had already said he was gonna veto it so it doesn't matter what McCain's position was amirite?

#5 Source?

#7 Not a lie at all. John McCain's stated policy is that he will tax employers who provide health care benefits in order to pay for this 5000 tax credit. Get that garbage out of here.

#9 Surprise surprise, another lie from the McCain camp. Google it bitch. Both McKiernan and Petreus say "What I don’t think is needed – the word I don’t use in Afghanistan is the word surge."

#10 An even bigger lie. John McCain has said "I am fundamentally a deregulator." Yes yes, he had his Fannie Mae Freddie Mac moment two years ago, that's wonderful for him. But it doesn't change 26 years of anti-regulation.

#11 (what you wrote) "When Joe Biden lied when he said that John McCain was “dead wrong on Iraq”, because Joe Biden shared the same vote to authorize the war and differed on the surge strategy where they John McCain has been proven right." All I gotta say is... what?

#12 Flat out falsification, along with 14


So all in all, we've got maybe 3-4 lies/misstatements tops. Compared to Ms. Palin's 12 (source coming soon).


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OnlineGastronomicus
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #9025735 - 10/03/08 10:26 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Palin mistakenly claimed that troop levels in Iraq had returned to “pre-surge” levels. Levels are gradually coming down but current plans would have levels higher than pre-surge numbers through early next year, at least.

Palin repeated a false claim that Obama once voted in favor of higher taxes on “families” making as little as $42,000 a year. He did not. The budget bill in question called for an increase only on singles making that amount, but a family of four would not have been affected unless they made at least $90,000 a year.

Palin claimed McCain’s health care plan would be “budget neutral,” costing the government nothing. Independent budget experts estimate McCain's plan would cost tens of billions each year, though details are too fuzzy to allow for exact estimates.

(back to the days of dubya and his fuzzy numbers?)

Palin repeated the attack that Obama voted for higher taxes 94 times, which the New York Times says is “false,” CNN says is “Misleading,” and FactCheck.org says is “inflated.”

Palin said Obama is is proposing “nearly a trillion dollars in new spending,” but didn’t mention that he has also proposed cuts to balance it out, an attack CNN has already debunked as “misleading” and that ignores the far larger cost of McCain’s tax cuts and spending hikes.

Palin repeated what the AP called the “highly misleading” attack that Obama opposed funding for the troops, and Factcheck.org notes that the same methodology would lead to the same conclusion for McCain.

Palin said that [McKiernan] did not say a surge wouldn’t work in Afghanistan, when just yesterday he said  “The word I don’t use for Afghanistan is ’surge,’ ” McKiernan stressed, saying that what is required is a “sustained commitment” to a counterinsurgency effort that could last many years and would ultimately require a political, not military, solution.

Palin said “You do what I did as governor. And you appoint people regardless of party affiliation. Democrats, independents, Republicans, you walk the walk, don't just talk the talk” when she repeatedly appointed friends and supporters to positions for which they weren’t qualified.

Palin falsely claimed that she was the first governor to form a climate change subcabinet, when at least 28 states had already taken action.

Palin claimed that “when I and others” found out that the state had money  invested in Sudan that “we called for divestment,” when the reality is that Palin’s appointees worked to kill a Darfur divestment plan.

Palin said to “look at the tobacco industry” as an example of McCain pushing for even harder and tougher regulations. But McCain opposed expanding the SCHIP children’s health insurance program for 5.8 million children because it would increase tobacco taxes.




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OfflinePhred
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #9025769 - 10/03/08 10:33 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

#2 Categorically false, this is not Obama's position, he has made that clear.




Go to his website. It still says right on his website he will meet Ahmadinejad without preconditions. And of course, millions of people watched him say it at the debate. And watched Edwards and Hillary (possibly others as well... I can't remember) explain at that same debate just why it was such a doofus position to hold. Yet it's still right there for all to see at the official certified Obama campaign website. I posted all of this earlier in the thread (video of the question at the debate, with Obama's and Edwrds's and Clinton's responses, screenshot of Obama's website with the statement highlighted, and the link to the website so you can verify for yourself), but you were too busy regurgitating kneejerk Obamabot talking points to have noticed your own man has cut you off at the knees on this one. Oops.

Here, let me save you some time:

http://origin.barackobama.com/issues/foreign_policy/


&


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OfflinePhred
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #9025784 - 10/03/08 10:35 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

#5 Source?









Phred


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OfflinePhred
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #9025818 - 10/03/08 10:41 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

#3 Out of context. Biden said that, but said that it'll take 10 years to see any oil out of it. He said "in the meantime, we're all going to be in real trouble."




In July, Biden Said Proponents Of Offshore Drilling Want To "Rape" The Outer Continental Shelf. "'I think this is a last-ditch effort to go out and rape the offshore continental shelf, so that they own it and are able to use it as leverage in the future, because they know if they don't get it in the last couple of months of this administration, they're not going to get it,' Biden said." (Jeff Montgomery, "Biden Rips Bush On Energy," The [Wilmington, DE] News Journal, 7/15/08)
www.delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article%3FAID%3D2008807240319+%22of+this+administration,+they%27re+not+going%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&client=safari" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noreferrer noopener">http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:jIgKaR1mQzAJ:www.delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article%3FAID%3D2008807240319+%22of+this+administration,+they%27re+not+going%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&client=safari



Phred


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OnlineGastronomicus
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Phred]
    #9025829 - 10/03/08 10:42 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

He clearly misunderstood the question. She asked about clean coal and he replied with something about China's dirty coal. His position is pretty clear


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OnlineGastronomicus
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Phred]
    #9025835 - 10/03/08 10:44 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I didn't say he didn't say that drilling offshore was raping the environment. It is, but that's not what I was replying to.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Phred]
    #9025841 - 10/03/08 10:44 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I could keep on going, but why should I waste more of my time? It's obvious you don't know what you're talking about.

Biden lied and misremembered and hallucinated and created his own special reality out of thin air last night and the MSM gave him a complete walk on it.

Palin mispronounced the name of a general serving in Afghanistan and its front page news. But the press isn't in the tank for Obama. Oh no. Perish the thought.






Phred


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OnlineGastronomicus
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Phred]
    #9025855 - 10/03/08 10:47 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
I could keep on going, but why should I waste more of my time? It's obvious you don't know what you're talking about.

Biden lied and misremembered and hallucinated and created his own special reality out of thin air last night and the MSM gave him a complete walk on it.

Palin mispronounced the name of a general serving in Afghanistan and its front page news. But the press isn't in the tank for Obama. Oh no. Perish the thought.





You could keep going if you had even a shred of ground to stand upon. If you think that the worst thing Sarah Palin did last night was mispronounce the name of the General in Afghanistan then there's no hope for you. I gotta say Phred, you are so far up the ass of the Palin political machine that you wouldn't know the truth if it spit in your face.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #9025858 - 10/03/08 10:47 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Did you watch the debate video yet? Bother to visit Obama's foreign policy webpage to confirm I didn't photoshop that screenshot?

What part of "Obama supports tough direct presidential diplomacy with Iran without preconditions" am I misinterpreting?

I gotta say, Gastronomicus, you are so far up the ass of the Biden political machine that you wouldn't know the truth if it spit in your face.








Phred


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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Phred]
    #9025869 - 10/03/08 10:50 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I watched the video, and checked your link. Not false. You're not misinterpreting that. You're just living in a fantasy world where Sarah Palin gave a "great" debate performance in which she failed to answer anything asked of her and instead danced from unrelated issue to unrelated issue in a desperate attempt to not look like the buffoon she is.


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Offlinepiracetam
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #9025876 - 10/03/08 10:53 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Gastronomicus said:
she failed to answer anything asked of her and instead danced from unrelated issue to unrelated issue in a desperate attempt to not look like the buffoon she is.




:hehehe:

you noticed that too


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OfflinePhred
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #9025878 - 10/03/08 10:53 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

So you're reversing your position on number 2? Well, that's a start. I guess sometimes it is worth me making that extra effort. Hopefully you'll come around on the rest of them once you look into them, too.




Phred


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OnlineGastronomicus
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: piracetam]
    #9025881 - 10/03/08 10:53 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

piracetam said:
Quote:

Gastronomicus said:
she failed to answer anything asked of her and instead danced from unrelated issue to unrelated issue in a desperate attempt to not look like the buffoon she is.




:hehehe:

you noticed that too




You'd have to be Phred not to notice :rolleyes:


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #9025886 - 10/03/08 10:54 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I just have to say that anyone who believes that either of them did a good job last night is delusional and should be committed for their own safety and the safety of others.


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OnlineGastronomicus
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Phred]
    #9025893 - 10/03/08 10:56 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
So your reversing your position on number 2? Well, that's a start. I guess sometimes it is worth me making that extra effort. Hopefully you'll come around on the rest of them once you look into them, too.





Oh not at all. My position on #2 remains the same. I think that diplomacy is a good idea in all circumstances. I will however admit that I dislike the Obama campaign fleeing from the statement like it's something to be ashamed of. I mean... there's no honor in politics though so I can't be surprised.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #9025905 - 10/03/08 10:58 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Gastronomicus said:
Quote:

piracetam said:
Quote:

Gastronomicus said:
she failed to answer anything asked of her and instead danced from unrelated issue to unrelated issue in a desperate attempt to not look like the buffoon she is.




:hehehe:

you noticed that too




You'd have to be Phred not to notice :rolleyes:




It cracked me up when she explicitly said she wasn't going to answer some questions how the moderator liked. Is there any more of transparent show of how script-bound you are?


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OfflinePhred
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Re: McCain camp gets in first licks regarding Biden's bullshit [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #9025907 - 10/03/08 10:58 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

You're just living in a fantasy world where Sarah Palin gave a "great" debate performance...




Sorry, dude, you are confusing me with someone else. I haven't written a single word on Palin's debate performance, other than to point out her mispronunciation of the name of a general serving in Afghanistan. I have offered no opinion whatsoever on the strength or weakness of her appearance last night.

You really would come off a little more credible if you were to take a few deep breaths, slow down, and actually think a little bit before writing these posts. Don't worry... we'll all still be here to read them.




Phred


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