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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.


Registered: 10/03/04
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Rudy Giuliani Proposes `Biggest Tax Cut' in U.S. History :thumbup:
#7858617 - 01/10/08 10:43 AM (16 years, 22 days ago) |
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Rudy Giuliani Proposes `Biggest Tax Cut' in U.S. History
By Christopher Stern and Alison Fitzgerald
Jan. 10 (Bloomberg) -- Republican presidential candidate Rudy Giuliani proposed a tax overhaul plan that would reduce capital gains and corporate tax rates and allow many Americans to file a one-page return.
The plan would reduce the corporate tax rate to 25 percent and the capital-gains tax to 10 percent. The current corporate tax rate is 35 percent, and the capital-gains rate is 15 percent, set to rise to 20 percent in 2010 as President George W. Bush's tax cuts expire.
If all of his proposals were enacted, ``it would be the biggest tax cut in American history,'' Giuliani said in an interview on Bloomberg Television.
Giuliani said he would explain in coming weeks how he will pay for the tax cuts. The plan will include a 5 to 10 percent reduction in spending at federal agencies, including staff reductions.
The tax cuts might just pay for themselves, Giuliani added.
``If you bring that tax down responsibly, you're going to make money on it because you're going to pick up more businesses,'' he said.
The former New York mayor said he wants to index capital gains for inflation, which would further cut the capital-gains tax burden. He also proposes to index the alternative minimum tax for inflation to limit its reach. The tax was created in 1969 to prevent 155 wealthy Americans from avoiding taxes through excessive deductions and exemptions.
``We are going to index it for inflation so it doesn't reach anyone else and doesn't hurt anyone else in the middle class,'' Giuliani said. He added that his ultimate goal is to do away with the tax.
``We should really get rid of it,'' Giuliani said.
One-Page Form
Wage-earning taxpayers would have the option of filing a one-page form that includes some popular deductions, a proposal advanced in Congress by Republican Representative Paul Ryan of Wisconsin. ``We believe that this will save middle-class taxpayers a lot of money,'' Giuliani said in the interview.
Giuliani also proposes eliminating the estate tax altogether, a longtime goal of Republicans. The estate tax raised $29 billion in 1999, according to the Tax Policy Center, a research group in Washington. The Congressional Budget Office estimated it would raise $400 billion from 2001-2010 before Congress passed a law that ratcheted down the tax each year until it expires in 2010. The estate tax is now scheduled to return in 2011.
Tax Brackets
Giuliani's plan would reduce the current six tax brackets to three. There would be a 10 percent tax on income up to $40,000. Income between $40,000 and $150,000 would be taxed at 15 percent. A 30 percent tax rate would kick in at $150,000.
The Club for Growth, an anti-tax advocacy group based in Washington, praised the proposal.
``The mayor's plan dramatically lowers marginal tax rates at the personal and corporate level, which will encourage a significant burst of economic activity and growth,'' said Pat Toomey, the group's president, in an e-mailed statement.
Giuliani, 63, who finished fourth in yesterday's first-in- the-nation New Hampshire primary, is banking on contests in big states to ratify his Republican front-runner status in national polls. Florida Republicans vote on Jan. 29, and more than 20 states, including California and New York, hold nominating contests on Feb. 5.
``Florida counts,'' Giuliani said. ``It's a gate-opener to Feb. 5.''
In addition to the other changes, the Giuliani plan would also reinstate the research and development tax credit and make the Bush tax cuts permanent. Giuliani also wants to create tax- free savings accounts that could be used for education, retirement or purchasing a home.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aQEf60fq86h4&refer=us
It sounds like a great tax plan!!!!!!
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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vampirism
Stranger


Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 8,120
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Re: Rudy Giuliani Proposes `Biggest Tax Cut' in U.S. History :thumbup: [Re: lonestar2004]
#7859092 - 01/10/08 12:08 PM (16 years, 22 days ago) |
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I think it's a bad idea. He's an idiot because he would cut taxes and increase spending a lot.
We're already bankrupt.
FIRST cut shitloads of spending.
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.


Registered: 10/03/04
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Re: Rudy Giuliani Proposes `Biggest Tax Cut' in U.S. History :thumbup: [Re: vampirism]
#7859536 - 01/10/08 01:36 PM (16 years, 22 days ago) |
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"Giuliani's plan would reduce the current six tax brackets to three. There would be a 10 percent tax on income up to $40,000. Income between $40,000 and $150,000 would be taxed at 15 percent. A 30 percent tax rate would kick in at $150,000."
I love this idea! My family would go from 30% to 15% tax bracket!!!! fucking government THIEVES!
Wife and I make a little over 100k a year, and I'm sure the liberals/Dem's would prefer me to be in the pre-Reagan level of 70 percent!!!
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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Coaster
Baʿal



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Re: Rudy Giuliani Proposes `Biggest Tax Cut' in U.S. History :thumbup: [Re: lonestar2004]
#7859604 - 01/10/08 01:48 PM (16 years, 22 days ago) |
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how bout he eliminate the taxes all together ron paul 2008
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fantastical
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Re: Rudy Giuliani Proposes `Biggest Tax Cut' in U.S. History :thumbup: [Re: lonestar2004]
#7859720 - 01/10/08 02:06 PM (16 years, 22 days ago) |
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Dr. Paul's proposed abolition of taxes is still a better plan for you and your family....and Dr. Paul has either beaten or tied Rudy in the primary's, so he is the obvious choice if you want to vote a republican who will reduce taxes.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Rudy Giuliani Proposes `Biggest Tax Cut' in U.S. History :thumbup: [Re: lonestar2004]
#7859905 - 01/10/08 02:36 PM (16 years, 22 days ago) |
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For fuck's sake when will we ever be rid of these Paulnuts. For the most part they don't even pay anywhere near their share of taxes, they are just ideological morons. Sucking and cursing the teat with the same mouth.
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Coaster
Baʿal



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Re: Rudy Giuliani Proposes `Biggest Tax Cut' in U.S. History :thumbup: [Re: zappaisgod]
#7860089 - 01/10/08 03:13 PM (16 years, 22 days ago) |
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well im a paulnut and i pay way more money into the government than you im sure, i have no dependents they take so fucking much outta my cheX
and ron paul will balance the budget by getting rid of the drug war and the war on terror, with those removed America would have so much extra money so we can cut major taxes
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Rudy Giuliani Proposes `Biggest Tax Cut' in U.S. History :thumbup: [Re: Coaster]
#7860115 - 01/10/08 03:17 PM (16 years, 22 days ago) |
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Quote:
Coaster said: i pay way more money into the government than you im sure, i have no dependents they take so fucking much outta my cheX
If they are taking money out of your check you aren't even in the same ballpark as me.Quote:
and ron paul will balance the budget by getting rid of the drug war and the war on terror, with those removed America would have so much extra money so we can cut major taxes
Ron Paul will do none of those things and couldn't do those things even if Martians installed him as President.
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers



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Re: Rudy Giuliani Proposes `Biggest Tax Cut' in U.S. History :thumbup: [Re: zappaisgod]
#7860118 - 01/10/08 03:17 PM (16 years, 22 days ago) |
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What a bumper crop of great economic ideas we have coming from the Republican party, formerly the bastion of conservatism.
Does Rudy really think the 5% reduction in government spending necessary to make this work is going to happen? How does he propose to do this?
I would think his first act in office would be to raise taxes to fund the 6 or 8 simultaneous wars he insists he'll wage immediately upon election. Not to mention his professed desire to throw heaps and barrels of money at every half-baked government surveillance and police program in the country.
The amazing thing about this idiocy is that its not even the worst economic plan on the Republican ticket! Huckabee's "Fair Tax" would be an outright disaster, with a 30% sales tax across the board forcing the tax burden almost exclusively on the middle class and poor. And Ron Paul's moronic tax scheme would never be implemented no matter how much he screeched and glowered from the Oval Office.
You can say what you want about the Democratic party, but 8 years of G-Dub and his deficit spending should be enough to show you that every administration is goign to recklessly spend as much money as it possibly can. Fiscal conservatism is dead and buried except in the shriveled and blackened hearts of some whacked-out Republi-Fascists.
The only question is whether you want your money spent on tangible items, like schools and bridges, or thrown away invading Iran and instituting nation-wide surveillance of every street corner.
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.


Registered: 10/03/04
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Re: Rudy Giuliani Proposes `Biggest Tax Cut' in U.S. History :thumbup: [Re: Coaster]
#7860297 - 01/10/08 03:56 PM (16 years, 22 days ago) |
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I'm also a paulnut but unfortunately he hasn't been unable to excite much of the republican base
the reality of Huckabee/McCain running against Hillary is scaring the fuck out of me!
(Mike Huckabee ahead in South Carolina and Rudy Giuliani leading in Florida.)
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs




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Re: Rudy Giuliani Proposes `Biggest Tax Cut' in U.S. History :thumbup: [Re: lonestar2004]
#7860705 - 01/10/08 05:26 PM (16 years, 22 days ago) |
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Excellent, we can have an even bigger deficit.
He better pull some spending cuts out of his ass for this to work.
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



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Re: Rudy Giuliani Proposes `Biggest Tax Cut' in U.S. History :thumbup: [Re: lonestar2004]
#7860731 - 01/10/08 05:34 PM (16 years, 22 days ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (02/13/21 09:28 AM)
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RosettaStoned
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Re: Rudy Giuliani Proposes `Biggest Tax Cut' in U.S. History :thumbup: [Re: Redstorm]
#7862131 - 01/10/08 09:58 PM (16 years, 22 days ago) |
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I'm sure he plans to just keep borrowing from china.
-------------------- "Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson "Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa
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Annapurna1
liberal pussy


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Re: Rudy Giuliani Proposes `Biggest Tax Cut' in U.S. History :thumbup: [Re: lonestar2004]
#7862235 - 01/10/08 10:19 PM (16 years, 22 days ago) |
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http://www.alternet.org/story/72717/
Quote:
'Democracy,' American Style By Paul Buchheit, AlterNet Posted on January 10, 2008, Printed on January 10, 2008
We keep hearing about the relentless march away from democracy in Russia and Venezuela. It frightens us. The feeling is that democracy is essential for the betterment of the world, and that we Americans are living in a society that serves as the ultimate democratic model, where any citizen can gain the education and skills to rise to a position of wealth and leadership.
The income gap in the United States is greater than anywhere else in the developed world. Conservative analysts attempt to justify the disparities as a necessary step to economic growth, arguing that the rich are being rewarded for innovation and risk-taking, while the poor experience smaller but meaningful gains. Everyone benefits in the long run.
But according to numerous recent studies, income and net worth have actually been DROPPING for all but the top 10 percent of American households. Because of escalating home mortgage expenses, healthcare, and childcare costs, the average two-income family today has less disposable income than one-income families had 30 years ago. The expected "trickle-down" effect has not occurred. According to the U.S. Census Bureau, the Gini coefficient (a measure of inequality) has grown steadily over 35 years, from .394 in 1970 to .469 in 2005. Low-wage earners find it increasingly difficult to escape the burdens of poverty. The Economic Policy Institute found "significant income correlations between parents and their children," to the degree that "it would take a poor family of four with two children approximately nine to 10 generations -- over 200 years -- to achieve the income of the typical middle-income four-person family."
Some oil company and military defense executives made almost $100 million in 2006. A number of hedge fund managers made over a BILLION dollars. A laborer who worked for fifty years, making $50,000 a year, would realize total LIFETIME earnings approximately equal to one day's work for a hedge fund manager. Is this democracy, where a few hours work for one individual is equivalent to a lifetime of labor for another? Where an elite group of corporate financial wizards find creative ways to direct billions of dollars into their own pockets while millions of wage earners do the nation's work?
The suggestion of impropriety seems to offend many prosperous Americans, for we want to believe that we live in a fair society and that our wealth has been deservedly earned as it will be for any American who is willing to work hard. But the realities block out the illusion.
Regressive taxes are being used to pay America's bills. When social security taxes, sales taxes, transportation fees and utility costs are included, the typical wage earner pays about a 40 percent overall tax, about the same percentage as an American with a million-dollar income. They even pay an extra dollar or so for every piece of clothing imported from developing countries such as Bangladesh and India, because of archaic tariff laws. The rich pay the extra dollar too, if they're willing to shop at local discount chains.
Many wealthy Americans pay much less than 40 percent, because the greater portion of their income is not considered income. It is in the form of capital gains, derived from financial assets, such as property and stocks, which are subject to only a 15 percent tax. The capital gains windfall has been enhanced by a stock market that has grown seven times faster than America's GDP since 1981. The working poor have little opportunity to benefit from these tax advantages. Two-thirds of the country's stocks are owned by the wealthiest 1 percent of Americans. Earnings on productive work is taxed at over two times the rate of income on paper assets. Yet, insultingly, the working poor are audited by the IRS at a higher rate than people making over $100,000 a year.
The tax cuts for the rich put even more of the burden on the shoulders of the poor. Every U.S. taxpayer contributes about $600 a year to pay for the tax cuts that return tens of thousands of dollars each year to the wealthiest 5 percent of Americans.
Corporate tax breaks complete the assault on individual workers. Corporate tax as a percentage of federal revenue is about one-third of what it was in the 1950s. Many American companies take tax write-offs on previous-year purchases or losses, or they produce goods overseas to avoid declaring income in the United States. Many corporations have managed to avoid taxes for several years in a row.
Some analysts insist that corporations already have a 35 percent income tax rate, and that a further tax could be harmful to small businesses. But big revenue firms are some of the worst offenders:
* General Electric, with annual revenue of $168 billion, has a five-year average tax rate of less than 10 percent -- Boeing, with annual revenue of $61 billion, has a five-year average tax rate of less than 1 percent. * Raytheon, with annual revenue of $23 billion, has a five-year average tax rate of less than 8 percent. * Time Warner, with annual revenue of $44 billion, has a five-year average tax rate of less than 10 percent. * DirecTV, with annual revenue of $14 billion, has a five-year average tax rate of less than 3 percent.
Is this democracy, where the average wage earner is not receiving a fair share of America's productive economy? Where the concept of a fair wage for a day's work is mocked by someone making 20,000 times more than the average worker for an activity that produces nothing of substance? The argument against changing the system is that it will slow down the economy. But those who fear damaging the economy by regulating big business need to look at how it damages the people who do most of the work.
Paul Buchheit is a professor with the Chicago City Colleges, co-founder of Global Initiative Chicago (GIChicago.org) and the founder of fightingpoverty.org. He is the editor and main contributor to the forthcoming book American Wars: Illusions and Realities (Clarity Press).
© 2008 Independent Media Institute. All rights reserved.
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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Rudy Giuliani Proposes `Biggest Tax Cut' in U.S. History :thumbup: [Re: zappaisgod]
#7862915 - 01/11/08 12:06 AM (16 years, 22 days ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: For fuck's sake when will we ever be rid of these Paulnuts. For the most part they don't even pay anywhere near their share of taxes, they are just ideological morons. Sucking and cursing the teat with the same mouth.
I won't even pay federal or state income tax this year.... 100% educational and personal deductions

but i'm also not really sucking the gov't teat either, cept going to a public school
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art
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Re: Rudy Giuliani Proposes `Biggest Tax Cut' in U.S. History :thumbup: [Re: johnm214]
#7863022 - 01/11/08 12:33 AM (16 years, 22 days ago) |
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Quote:
Cutting taxes while increasing (or at least continuing enormous government spending) spending is a great recipe for the future of the U.S. Keep it up another decade or two & I'll be busy helping the Lakota form their own nation as the U.S. collapses harder than any other empire in history once the dollar becomes worthless & various factions with numbers willing to use violence carve out sections of the U.S. to be ruled by them. It'll make the original U.S. Civil War look like a skirmish.
people have been predicting the end of the u.s. since it formed, and it has yet to fall apart what makes you think that now is any different?
As stupid as this tax cut is Ron Paul's policies are waaaaaaaaaaaaay stupider. Right now is the biggest unequal distribution of wealth since 1929, and with Guiliani, or Ron Paul that gap will widen. I can never seem to understand why so many "working class" Americans support the republican party, and their economic policies.
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy


Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: Rudy Giuliani Proposes `Biggest Tax Cut' in U.S. History :thumbup: [Re: art]
#7863073 - 01/11/08 12:47 AM (16 years, 22 days ago) |
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What are you talking about???
Paul just wants to cut spending over seas, which would bring us back to our 2000 budget, which is currently covered with revenues minus the Federal Income tax,. We don't need it and Paul wants to cut that. If that gets cut, we don't need the IRS anymore and saved even more as well as people no longer have to live in fear of fines and or imprisonment for not paying something we were never meant to pay as U.S. citizens in the first place.
It's fair because everyone gets to keep the amount of Federal income tax they currently pay.
Paul's plan rocks the hardest!!!!!!!!!!!
Giuliani's does nothing to help me keep more of my household income.
Further, his tax break for corporations does jack to help with jobs here. Corps go over seas to save on labor and workmen's comp.
Giuliani is just giving the share holders more for their private bank accounts.
Rudy's plan for cutting spending was weak. he just said, he would cut Federal departments and staff. Which ones? How much? Is it enough to cover the loss of tax revenue from his cuts?
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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art
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Re: Rudy Giuliani Proposes `Biggest Tax Cut' in U.S. History :thumbup: [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
#7863120 - 01/11/08 12:57 AM (16 years, 22 days ago) |
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Ron Paul wants to do a hell of a lot more than just cut spending over seas. He wants to take us back to the gilded age when corporations could do whatever they wanted to do, and when there was a major recession about once every decade.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



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Re: Rudy Giuliani Proposes `Biggest Tax Cut' in U.S. History :thumbup: [Re: art]
#7863621 - 01/11/08 04:44 AM (16 years, 21 days ago) |
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Quote:
He wants to take us back to the gilded age when corporations could do whatever they wanted to do, and when there was a major recession about once every decade.
Although your statement isn't true, I would take what you describe over the current policy of going to war every few years in the name of economic stability.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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kotik
fuckingsuperhero


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Re: Rudy Giuliani Proposes `Biggest Tax Cut' in U.S. History :thumbup: [Re: Seuss]
#7863691 - 01/11/08 05:53 AM (16 years, 21 days ago) |
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he should call it the 9/11 tax cut.
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
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Re: Rudy Giuliani Proposes `Biggest Tax Cut' in U.S. History :thumbup: [Re: art]
#7864534 - 01/11/08 11:22 AM (16 years, 21 days ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (02/13/21 09:28 AM)
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers



Registered: 03/06/03
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Re: Rudy Giuliani Proposes `Biggest Tax Cut' in U.S. History :thumbup: [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
#7864582 - 01/11/08 11:30 AM (16 years, 21 days ago) |
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The Religious Right is only one wing of the Republican party, and not a majority by any means.
I wish it was that easy.
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



Registered: 10/04/05
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Re: Rudy Giuliani Proposes `Biggest Tax Cut' in U.S. History :thumbup: [Re: Madtowntripper]
#7864612 - 01/11/08 11:36 AM (16 years, 21 days ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (02/13/21 09:29 AM)
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art
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Re: Rudy Giuliani Proposes `Biggest Tax Cut' in U.S. History :thumbup: [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
#7864629 - 01/11/08 11:39 AM (16 years, 21 days ago) |
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Quote:
That is a completely valid concern being as in the early part of U.S. history, when there was basically no government oversight of business, wealthy industrialists enslaved even white children (sometimes rounded up on the streets of slums in European capitals) to work in horrendous conditions in their factories.
John Jacques Rousseau said, "I prefer liberty with danger than peace with slavery." Even though environmental concerns are huge to me (which ties to your point), It's a risk with Paul I'd be willing to take. If he's serious about cutting off foreign "aid" to foreign governments, then it might hasten the day where they work out a society that the majority want instead of U.S. arms suppressing the will of the majority, Of course, another extremely repressive & self-serving world power (like China) could very well step to fill the role of their #1 arms dealer, but at least then I would be able to know my tax dollars aren't providing arms to butcher & oppress peasants & workers throughout the world; or starting wars to secure resources & cheap labor.
I see your point. I just feel that if we were to live in a libertarian society things would get even worse than the gilded age. I think that we need restrictions on business now more than ever. Can you imagine what a recession like the 1857, or 1893 recessions would be like today? I don't have any reason to think that they would be any worse but I can't help but think so. Do you think that we would live to see 2050 with out regulation on environmental issues?
it is sad that people let organized religion completely blind them.
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy


Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: Rudy Giuliani Proposes `Biggest Tax Cut' in U.S. History :thumbup: [Re: art]
#7864781 - 01/11/08 12:21 PM (16 years, 21 days ago) |
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Art, have you ever heard Paul speak on environmental issues?
The problem is, with government regulations, they make certain levels of pollution in the air water, food and soil allowed.
We can't sue because the levels are legal.
With that removed, we could, under property right laws, sue any company polluting our air, water and soil.
No body does, because the current government protects low level polluters under our laws. Low level shmo level the toxins build up and become dangerous. A lot of toxins, especially metals, stay in the body.
Thats part one of the problem with legalizing pollution through regulation.
Our government also subsidizes companies that cause harm to the environment, making it much more difficult for greener companies to compete with them and enter the market place.
Paul wants those subsidies to stop, to make it easier for greener company's and alternative energy suppliers to enter the market place and take over.
He's got it right.
What are we, lame??? We as consumers can choose who we buy products from. We have the power right there to turn things around. Do Americans that bitch about the environment do that? To few to make any real difference.
Why? They either A can't afford it because non subsidized companies have to charge more or B expect the government to take care of it. Why? Because they have bought into the nanny state mentality.
America needs a hard dose of some Libertarian values before we end up completely like Communists with invisible fences.
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers



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Re: Rudy Giuliani Proposes `Biggest Tax Cut' in U.S. History :thumbup: [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
#7865088 - 01/11/08 01:38 PM (16 years, 21 days ago) |
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Quote:
EntheogenicPeace said: Do not an overwhelming majority of those who vote GOP in presidential races (& others, too) describe themselves both as 'Christians' & 'social conservatives'? I'm sure plenty don't, but I thought i've seen countless polls & surveys confirming as much (especially on the first one).
No, this is just wrong.
An overwhelming percentage of BOTH PARTIES describe themselves as Christian. Upwards of 70% for both parties.
Not just Republicans.
The people you are thinking of are the Evangelicals, who are the very vocal Right-Wing Christians who dump pigs blood on women outside abortion clinics and throw rocks at gay people in the street.
They make up a minority of the Republican party, but have been allowed to hijack it for quite awhile.
I'm a Democrat, but am happy to see that the rest of the Republican party is beginning to take the reins back from these jack-asses.
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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Floop
Stranger

Registered: 11/28/06
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Re: Rudy Giuliani Proposes `Biggest Tax Cut' in U.S. History :thumbup: [Re: Madtowntripper]
#7865265 - 01/11/08 02:17 PM (16 years, 21 days ago) |
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I live in western Europe so Im not as knowledgeable when it comes to American politics.
But it's interesting to see how different people view the US now compared to the 90s. At that time everyone was saying the US was a decade ahead of western Europe. The US was THE major political, economic and military power of the world. But now the income gap in the US is huge, and poverty seems to be relatively widespread compared to where I live. And the US is no longer the innovative country it used to be. For example, of all the hightech and expensive stuff I own, from my tv to my mp3-player, to my car, my camera etc nothing is made in America or by American companies. Except maybe my Pentium processor and the windows on my computer. Thats all.
And that's a problem for the US, they need to pruduce and export more instead of keeping spending too much money. Wealth is being created out of nothing. The US is fucked if the dollar collapses.
But instead of curbing spending there has been an increase of spending. Instead of keeping the interest rates level or increasing them they are getting lower. Instead of subsidising research into new ways of producing energy the US decides to spend hundreds of billions on the war in Iraq.
And here you have a canditate who wants to cut taxes, while from the plans I read about on his website to curb spending it doesn't really seem enough even without tax cuts.
It's incomprehensible to me.
-------------------- "The finest emotion of which we are capable is the mystic emotion. Herein lies the germ of all art and all true science. Anyone to whom this feeling is alien, who is no longer capable of wonderment and lives in a state of fear is a dead man. To know that what is impenatrable for us really exists and manifests itself as the highest wisdom and the most radiant beauty, whose gross forms alone are intelligible to our poor faculties - this knowledge, this feeling ... that is the core of the true religious sent iment. In this sense, and in this sense alone, I rank myself amoung profoundly religious men." -Albert Einstein
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers



Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 5 months, 23 days
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Re: Rudy Giuliani Proposes `Biggest Tax Cut' in U.S. History :thumbup: [Re: Floop]
#7865289 - 01/11/08 02:24 PM (16 years, 21 days ago) |
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It doesn't make sense to alot of people here too.
I think people in Europe tend to think of America as a big monolithic entity, where all the people are the same.
But this country is pretty heavily divided. The last few National Elections have been 51-49 types of deals.
Just know that no matter which policy you don't like, half the American public hates it as well.
Its a politically divided country, at the moment.
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Rudy Giuliani Proposes `Biggest Tax Cut' in U.S. History :thumbup: [Re: Madtowntripper]
#7865369 - 01/11/08 02:42 PM (16 years, 21 days ago) |
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we need a uniter, not a divider
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Floop
Stranger

Registered: 11/28/06
Posts: 179
Last seen: 14 years, 10 months
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Re: Rudy Giuliani Proposes `Biggest Tax Cut' in U.S. History :thumbup: [Re: Madtowntripper]
#7865392 - 01/11/08 02:48 PM (16 years, 21 days ago) |
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There are many people who have very simplistic views. So yea, there are people who believe certain stereotypes to be true. And actually dislike Americans on those beliefs. They do the same with muslims, or Chinese people etc.
But most people with some intelligence know the US is a highly diverse country 
And the Americans that I've actually met don't fit into the general stereotype at all. Most were really friendly people that were really curious as to how other societies function and were pleased to find out that we don't differ all that much. Not arrogant idiots (although some were really fat ).
-------------------- "The finest emotion of which we are capable is the mystic emotion. Herein lies the germ of all art and all true science. Anyone to whom this feeling is alien, who is no longer capable of wonderment and lives in a state of fear is a dead man. To know that what is impenatrable for us really exists and manifests itself as the highest wisdom and the most radiant beauty, whose gross forms alone are intelligible to our poor faculties - this knowledge, this feeling ... that is the core of the true religious sent iment. In this sense, and in this sense alone, I rank myself amoung profoundly religious men." -Albert Einstein
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers



Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 5 months, 23 days
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Re: Rudy Giuliani Proposes `Biggest Tax Cut' in U.S. History :thumbup: [Re: Floop]
#7865410 - 01/11/08 02:51 PM (16 years, 21 days ago) |
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Its like that with every country and type of people!
I'm very strongly against Israel, but I have Israeli friends, even Zionist ones, that I care about very deeply.
I'm anti illegal immigrant, but I have hard-working friends who are illegals that I care about...
Its pretty easy to dislike a country, but its alot harder to dislike a person...
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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Floop
Stranger

Registered: 11/28/06
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Re: Rudy Giuliani Proposes `Biggest Tax Cut' in U.S. History :thumbup: [Re: Madtowntripper]
#7865483 - 01/11/08 03:12 PM (16 years, 21 days ago) |
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Yes it is indeed.
I try to keep in mind that most people just want to live a good, happy life by doing what they think what's right. That way I won't get to judgmental when it comes to individuals.
-------------------- "The finest emotion of which we are capable is the mystic emotion. Herein lies the germ of all art and all true science. Anyone to whom this feeling is alien, who is no longer capable of wonderment and lives in a state of fear is a dead man. To know that what is impenatrable for us really exists and manifests itself as the highest wisdom and the most radiant beauty, whose gross forms alone are intelligible to our poor faculties - this knowledge, this feeling ... that is the core of the true religious sent iment. In this sense, and in this sense alone, I rank myself amoung profoundly religious men." -Albert Einstein
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Coaster
Baʿal



Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 33,501
Loc: Deep in the Valley
Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
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Re: Rudy Giuliani Proposes `Biggest Tax Cut' in U.S. History :thumbup: [Re: Floop]
#7865666 - 01/11/08 04:03 PM (16 years, 21 days ago) |
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dam im learning a lot from gettingjiggywitit paul is fucking genious
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art
Stranger
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Re: Rudy Giuliani Proposes `Biggest Tax Cut' in U.S. History :thumbup: [Re: Floop]
#7865701 - 01/11/08 04:12 PM (16 years, 21 days ago) |
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I don't really know that much about Ron Paul's environmental stances. So I am sorry if I am talking out of my ass, but first of all I disagree with how things are done right now. I disagree with the large subsidies for the big corporations, and i think that the republican tax cuts are just going to worsen that problem.
So without some sort of regulation how exactly would one prevent companies for hurting the environment? I see your point of regulation allowing low levels of environmental degradation but I don't quit see the alternative. I think the best way to curb environmental damage is by creating a system of incentives to improve environmental quality. I can't think of the specific name of the economic system but I think it is important to have a nice balance. Yes we are that lame. I do not have any faith that people will choose companies that are more responsible than others. People are lazy, selfish, and disgusting.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs




Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
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Re: Rudy Giuliani Proposes `Biggest Tax Cut' in U.S. History :thumbup: [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
#7865885 - 01/11/08 04:47 PM (16 years, 21 days ago) |
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Quote:
EntheogenicPeace said: Do not an overwhelming majority of those who vote GOP in presidential races (& others, too) describe themselves both as 'Christians' & 'social conservatives'? I'm sure plenty don't, but I thought i've seen countless polls & surveys confirming as much (especially on the first one).
The polls also show that an overwhelming amount of democrats are Christians.
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers



Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
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Re: Rudy Giuliani Proposes `Biggest Tax Cut' in U.S. History :thumbup: [Re: Redstorm]
#7865899 - 01/11/08 04:50 PM (16 years, 21 days ago) |
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Quote:
Madtowntripper said:
An overwhelming percentage of BOTH PARTIES describe themselves as Christian. Upwards of 70% for both parties.
Not just Republicans.
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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Coaster
Baʿal



Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 33,501
Loc: Deep in the Valley
Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
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Re: Rudy Giuliani Proposes `Biggest Tax Cut' in U.S. History :thumbup: [Re: Madtowntripper]
#7865979 - 01/11/08 05:06 PM (16 years, 21 days ago) |
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everybody worships that water walking jew didnt ya no
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
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Re: Rudy Giuliani Proposes `Biggest Tax Cut' in U.S. History :thumbup: [Re: Madtowntripper]
#7866028 - 01/11/08 05:15 PM (16 years, 21 days ago) |
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---
Edited by EntheogenicPeace (02/13/21 09:29 AM)
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Rudy Giuliani Proposes `Biggest Tax Cut' in U.S. History :thumbup: [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
#7866147 - 01/11/08 05:36 PM (16 years, 21 days ago) |
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Quote:
EntheogenicPeace said: I actually greatly admire the historic figure of Jesus Christ & his philosophical teachings; it is those who follow an invented European religion based on foundations completely different from Jesus' teachings, & use their false religion to justify war, racism, militarism, colonialism, imperialism, slavery & economic exploitation, that I loathe. Jesus was a socialist & a humanist, after all, & so were his earliest followers until Rome re-invented him & his teachings in the early 4th century under Constantine (& maybe some other did before that, too).
Jesus seemed like a pretty cool guy. He hung out with prostitutes & I've read that the oils they used for massaging maybe came from cannabis & had THC in them. It's people like Jerry Falwell, George W. Bush, Sean Hannity & Ronald Reagan (& millions of others) who give the real Jesus a bad name.
I agree 
I'm sick of fuckers blaming the religion and the people on Jesus and the bible. Though the bible is incredibly contradictory and at times places god in a bad light and makes him to be a vengeful, jelous, person (which I reject) it seems people forget all the good that is in this book, and especially in its record of Jesus' teachings.
Most of the bullshit in the bible is from the old testament anyways... the new testament of the christian bible is a pretty cool deal
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs




Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 3 months, 10 days
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Re: Rudy Giuliani Proposes `Biggest Tax Cut' in U.S. History :thumbup: [Re: Madtowntripper]
#7866667 - 01/11/08 08:19 PM (16 years, 21 days ago) |
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Quote:
Madtowntripper said:
Quote:
Madtowntripper said:
An overwhelming percentage of BOTH PARTIES describe themselves as Christian. Upwards of 70% for both parties.
Not just Republicans.
Yeah, I didn't get that far in the thread before I made that post.
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KingOftheThing
the cool fool



Registered: 11/17/02
Posts: 27,397
Loc: USA
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Re: Rudy Giuliani Proposes `Biggest Tax Cut' in U.S. History :thumbup: [Re: lonestar2004]
#7866793 - 01/11/08 08:59 PM (16 years, 21 days ago) |
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wow with all the debt we're in, what a good idea! i say what we need is more debt to china and saudi arabia. i wont be happy until china owns the whole USA
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unbeliever
Yo Daddy!


Registered: 05/22/04
Posts: 5,158
Loc: Gallifrey
Last seen: 14 years, 10 months
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Re: Rudy Giuliani Proposes `Biggest Tax Cut' in U.S. History :thumbup: [Re: KingOftheThing]
#7868333 - 01/12/08 08:36 AM (16 years, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
KingOftheThing said: wow with all the debt we're in, what a good idea! i say what we need is more debt to china and saudi arabia. i wont be happy until china owns the whole USA
Once the lead poisoning sets in real good, we'll just roll over like drooling retards as China marches on Washington.
-------------------- Happiness is a warm gun...
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KillerChronic420
Pot Head



Registered: 10/17/07
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Loc: New York
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Rudy Giuliani Proposes `Biggest Tax Cut' in U.S. History :thumbup: [Re: kotik]
#7871254 - 01/12/08 10:20 PM (16 years, 20 days ago) |
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Every other word out of Giuliani's mouth is 9/11. Watch tv for a second and you'll hear him. lol
-------------------- Only the good die young. R.I.P. Mikey T. Remember kids, snitches get stitches!!!
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