Hi,

hopefully your stomach is better now!

If you are located in the Netherlands it makes much more sense to buy truffles fresh, preferably the same day or the day before you are taking them, if you can't refrigerate them. Even if this involves travelling to your nearest smartshop in another town it saves wasting money on spoiled / inedible sclerotia. Growing your own is good but not always possible!

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And how much would this dose be in dried shrooms? (curious)

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Once i laid down on my bed and put my headphones on with some music, the trip truly took off, almost instantly. The visuals got quite intense, with open and closed eyes, but they were nicer with my eyes closed. I completely lost sense of me having a body, completely being consumed by my mind and the music, it truly felt like i was slipping out of reality. (this is lvl 4 right? idk)

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I guess this is what you might expect from, say, 3.5g of dry cubes? Slipping out of reality is fairly normal for a trip, at higher doses it feels like you broke reality and you are regretting it

A while back I tried to work out some sort of potency comparison of commercial sclerotia to dried cubes:

1g cubes = 4g very strong sclerotia
1g cubes = 5g strong sclerotia
1g cubes = 6g medium+ sclerotia
1g cubes = 7g medium- sclerotia
1g cubes = 8g mild sclerotia
1g cubes = 9g weak sclerotia
1g cubes = 10g very weak sclerotia

This would imply that 60g very weak sclerotia would be equal to 6g cubes, but obviously you can have shrooms or sclerotia which are basically 'bunk' where even a ridiculously large dose results in a weak trip. If you asked for a very mild trip, got sold a small 10g pack of something that gave you a trip equivalent to 1g cubes, that might not be too unreasonable, but you can sometimes find 15g doses that give you threshold effects of <1g cubes.

Sclerotia is sometimes very strong (15g can sometimes be enough for an uncomfortably strong trip) but I think it's difficult for the growers to achieve this consistently in commercial quantities even if they wanted to.

I think even the better varieties of sclerotia on sale would typically be in the medium category on that scale, I don't think 30g of sclerotia will often give you a trip more powerful than 5g cubes. It's hard to be exact because I've only eaten cubes a few times; I'm making comparisons mainly based on trip reports.

For example, 6g of dry shrooms can be very crazy - e.g see this recent post The "worst" mushroom trip I've ever seen



I've tried gradually munching through 50g of sclerotia of middling potency - the trip did get quite crazy although the onset was gradual because I was eating them over a couple of hours - Trip 10 - 50g Mexicana Sclerotia - BURN EVERYTHING. It was quite a fun trip (the report is not 100% serious, I was just writing whatever nonsense came into my head for the fun of it) but towards the end I was becoming delusional.



The potency can vary quite a lot from product to product, and doesn't always stay consistent over long periods of time. I quite like the 'Royal Beluga' from the smart shops but the exact selection available depends on the supplier the shop uses (a lot of the product names are made up but the intention is to provide a range of varying strength; the exact potency depends on genetic factors and how mature the stones are).

Flyingvibrator said:

br />

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AmNeoNiK said:

yeah i recommend growing your own truffles dry them mostly and crumble on top of some weed brownies, eat those and youll see god.

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Quote:

Hi,

hopefully your stomach is better now!

If you are located in the Netherlands it makes much more sense to buy truffles fresh, preferably the same day or the day before you are taking them, if you can't refrigerate them. Even if this involves travelling to your nearest smartshop in another town it saves wasting money on spoiled / inedible sclerotia. Growing your own is good but not always possible!

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Quote:

Hard to say if the potency had deteriorated and you didn't absorb all the truffles.

I guess this is what you might expect from, say, 3.5g of dry cubes? Slipping out of reality is fairly normal for a trip, at higher doses it feels like you broke reality and you are regretting it

A while back I tried to work out some sort of potency comparison of commercial sclerotia to dried cubes:

1g cubes = 4g very strong sclerotia
1g cubes = 5g strong sclerotia
1g cubes = 6g medium+ sclerotia
1g cubes = 7g medium- sclerotia
1g cubes = 8g mild sclerotia
1g cubes = 9g weak sclerotia
1g cubes = 10g very weak sclerotia

This would imply that 60g very weak sclerotia would be equal to 6g cubes, but obviously you can have shrooms or sclerotia which are basically 'bunk' where even a ridiculously large dose results in a weak trip. If you asked for a very mild trip, got sold a small 10g pack of something that gave you a trip equivalent to 1g cubes, that might not be too unreasonable, but you can sometimes find 15g doses that give you threshold effects of <1g cubes.

Sclerotia is sometimes very strong (15g can sometimes be enough for an uncomfortably strong trip) but I think it's difficult for the growers to achieve this consistently in commercial quantities even if they wanted to.

I think even the better varieties of sclerotia on sale would typically be in the medium category on that scale, I don't think 30g of sclerotia will often give you a trip more powerful than 5g cubes. It's hard to be exact because I've only eaten cubes a few times; I'm making comparisons mainly based on trip reports.

For example, 6g of dry shrooms can be very crazy - e.g see this recent post The "worst" mushroom trip I've ever seen



I've tried gradually munching through 50g of sclerotia of middling potency - the trip did get quite crazy although the onset was gradual because I was eating them over a couple of hours - Trip 10 - 50g Mexicana Sclerotia - BURN EVERYTHING. It was quite a fun trip (the report is not 100% serious, I was just writing whatever nonsense came into my head for the fun of it) but towards the end I was becoming delusional.



The potency can vary quite a lot from product to product, and doesn't always stay consistent over long periods of time. I quite like the 'Royal Beluga' from the smart shops but the exact selection available depends on the supplier the shop uses (a lot of the product names are made up but the intention is to provide a range of varying strength; the exact potency depends on genetic factors and how mature the stones are).

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Asante said:

Welkom bij de Shroomery!

Gevalletje voedselvergiftiging, voortaan geen bedorven voedsel meer consumeren!

Heftig avontuur maar goed dat het daarbij gebleven is.



Welcome to the Shroomery

A case of food poisoning, from now on no more spoiled food items!

Inense adventure, its a good thing it wasnt worse than this.

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Flyingvibrator said:

AmNeoNiK said:

yeah i recommend growing your own truffles dry them mostly and crumble on top of some weed brownies, eat those and youll see god.

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Don't have to possibly to dry the truffles, otherwise I would've.
And never had weed, does that go well with truffles?

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Quote:

what would you estimate for 30 to 45 grams of hollandia (strong ones) which are kept for a couple weeks in the dark but at room temperature? (in vacuum bags)
About 4 to 6g?

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I don't know how much they lose potency from sub-optimal storage conditions; they seem to get a bit sweaty, darker and slimy but it's just a guess that this might be affecting the potency

Hollandia is generally supposed to be decently potent.. I think if you eat 30g of this sclerotia you want to be prepared for something similar to 5g of cubes. This is the well-known 'heroic' dose of Terence McKenna so you should be able to find a lot of trip reports for 5g doses.

Even if the 30g sclerotia is not especially potent it should be enough for a fairly solid trip (I think 3.5g cubes is normally considered to be a solid trip, 5 is 'heroic', more than that is likely to be destroy reality in unexpected ways).

Taking 45g could potentially be more like a 7g dose of cubes - which is another fairly common 'step up' in dosage because it's a 'quarter' (i.e quarter of an ounce). You can also look up trip reports for this dosage but now you are really starting to get into heavy tripping territory for more experienced trippers.

Personally I would find eating 45g decent sclerotia in one go just too much to consume and the onset far too intense. I do take this dose on a fairly regular basis but only with tolerance (i.e from a trip a couple of days previously) and I always split the dose 50/50, taking the second half usually after 90 minutes. Even then it can be very intense.

Like I say, the potency can be all over the place with this stuff, your trip might be stronger or weaker than you are expecting, but these are high doses and sooner or later you will get hit with a trip that feels insanely, unpleasantly intense.

One of the quotes I like from McKenna is this, talking about the onset of a strong shroom trip:

Quote:

There's about a 25 minute period where your only job is to hang on. It builds - it's like watching an atomic explosion on the other side of 50ft of absolutely clear crystal glass, I mean you can't believe that this is happening "in my mind" - you have the feeling that everybody from Seattle to San Diego is just crawled under their desk as this thing tore past, but it's in your mind...

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That McKenna quote is in a youtube video of one of his talks which I embedded in this post, which is about dealing with strong trips: Re: Hi. Please advise me on how not to fuck up shrooms.

This is the kind of thing that can happen on high doses of scerotia which turn out to be unexpectedly potent: Tentacles & Time-Travel on 42g sclerotia - welcome to EUROPA. Reading it back it sounds quite fun, but it wasn't. It can be a real mental effort.. an act of 'heroic' bravery... to get through that kind of trip, and you can be so delusional that it's quite possible you would announce to anyone in the same house that you were God or you have something incredibly important to tell them regarding the truth about reality. Until you experience that kind of trip you don't know how you are going to react to it.



Another unexpectedly strong trip on 44g sclerotia (even with tolerance) was spent curled up in bed while my mind seemed to be endlessly devoured by creatures within the churning chaos in my head. This is when tripping becomes an ordeal, the scope and depth of which you could never have imagined.

So... I would definitely attempt a 30g trip before you even consider 45g.

fuckitxo said:

Flyingvibrator said:

AmNeoNiK said:

yeah i recommend growing your own truffles dry them mostly and crumble on top of some weed brownies, eat those and youll see god.

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Don't have to possibly to dry the truffles, otherwise I would've.
And never had weed, does that go well with truffles?

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you can just air dry them a little but honestly any combination of truffles and good sativa when show you god exists, then you can take it from there.

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Aldebaran said:

Quote:

what would you estimate for 30 to 45 grams of hollandia (strong ones) which are kept for a couple weeks in the dark but at room temperature? (in vacuum bags)
About 4 to 6g?

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I don't know how much they lose potency from sub-optimal storage conditions; they seem to get a bit sweaty, darker and slimy but it's just a guess that this might be affecting the potency

Hollandia is generally supposed to be decently potent.. I think if you eat 30g of this sclerotia you want to be prepared for something similar to 5g of cubes. This is the well-known 'heroic' dose of Terence McKenna so you should be able to find a lot of trip reports for 5g doses.

Even if the 30g sclerotia is not especially potent it should be enough for a fairly solid trip (I think 3.5g cubes is normally considered to be a solid trip, 5 is 'heroic', more than that is likely to be destroy reality in unexpected ways).

Taking 45g could potentially be more like a 7g dose of cubes - which is another fairly common 'step up' in dosage because it's a 'quarter' (i.e quarter of an ounce). You can also look up trip reports for this dosage but now you are really starting to get into heavy tripping territory for more experienced trippers.

Personally I would find eating 45g decent sclerotia in one go just too much to consume and the onset far too intense. I do take this dose on a fairly regular basis but only with tolerance (i.e from a trip a couple of days previously) and I always split the dose 50/50, taking the second half usually after 90 minutes. Even then it can be very intense.

Like I say, the potency can be all over the place with this stuff, your trip might be stronger or weaker than you are expecting, but these are high doses and sooner or later you will get hit with a trip that feels insanely, unpleasantly intense.

One of the quotes I like from McKenna is this, talking about the onset of a strong shroom trip:

Quote:

There's about a 25 minute period where your only job is to hang on. It builds - it's like watching an atomic explosion on the other side of 50ft of absolutely clear crystal glass, I mean you can't believe that this is happening "in my mind" - you have the feeling that everybody from Seattle to San Diego is just crawled under their desk as this thing tore past, but it's in your mind...

---

That McKenna quote is in a youtube video of one of his talks which I embedded in this post, which is about dealing with strong trips: Re: Hi. Please advise me on how not to fuck up shrooms.

This is the kind of thing that can happen on high doses of scerotia which turn out to be unexpectedly potent: Tentacles & Time-Travel on 42g sclerotia - welcome to EUROPA. Reading it back it sounds quite fun, but it wasn't. It can be a real mental effort.. an act of 'heroic' bravery... to get through that kind of trip, and you can be so delusional that it's quite possible you would announce to anyone in the same house that you were God or you have something incredibly important to tell them regarding the truth about reality. Until you experience that kind of trip you don't know how you are going to react to it.



Another unexpectedly strong trip on 44g sclerotia (even with tolerance) was spent curled up in bed while my mind seemed to be endlessly devoured by creatures within the churning chaos in my head. This is when tripping becomes an ordeal, the scope and depth of which you could never have imagined.

So... I would definitely attempt a 30g trip before you even consider 45g.

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Quote:

Reading some high dose reports gets me wondering, what's the maximum dose? Like how much can you take before the effects don't get more intense or however you would describe it, because at some point the receptors in your brain would start to get saturated, but how much would you need to take for that?
(Just a thought experiment I guess, and knowing myself, I will probably end up finding that limit for myself at some point lel)

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Quote:

You would probably end up strapped to a bed in a hospital, with no memory of the trip that got you there, before you reached some sort of theoretical maximum dose. It would make more sense to try DMT than to take enormous doses of mushrooms.

There is also the fact that strong trips can be terrifying; you may reach a point where you do not want to go any further. I've had several trips where I thought I was dying, a panic attack basically, where the trip is so strong it just doesn't feel as though you will survive. It's just like a wall of insanity, the whole experience feels unpleasantly supernatural, you are basically in a state of psychosis and pure fear. The trip completely obliterates everything you know until there is nothing left.

In a very strong trip you can break through this at the peak into a serene calm and then a highly euphoric state, where it feels like you really broke through into another realm of the mind, or became God, or died and are experiencing something beyond death.

If you trip at even higher doses you reach a point at which 'less is more' and the trips become so dissociative that you feel you missed most of it. You hardly remember anything and the trip feels like it happened without you. I don't see the point in taking more and more just for the sake of it - there is an increasing risk of doing something crazy without being aware of it.

I like high doses but you have to respect the power of what you are taking and get used to the effects. A 'bad trip' is often just a result of not being used to the strength of the effects and not understanding that the trip is supposed to be like that at high doses.

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Quote:

ofc i respect and don't underestimate the stuff, meant it more as a curiosity, and yeah, taking more for the sake of it if the effect doesn't become better is just bloody stupid imo.

Dmt, that's supposed to be smoked right? and it is of a short duration as far as i'm aware. idk how much i'll get out from a short trip, i really enjoyed the length of them so far. (might change with higher doses ofc)

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Yes that's the one. I've never tried DMT and I do enjoy the length of mushroom trips, so I understand what you mean there.  With mushrooms "how much can I eat (or drink in tea) without throwing up" is more of a limit than anything to do with receptors in the brain. DMT is closely chemically related to psilocybin so it would be an obvious choice for anyone seeking something 'beyond' the usual mushroom experience, rather than simply eating huge amounts.

There is a synthetic analogue of psilocybin (psilacetin) which would be easier to consume in very large doses, but I don't think much research has been done on this; there is much more information on large doses of LSD. In discussions on 'thumbprints' e.t.c it is often suggested that there must be a point at which the receptors involved are completely saturated.

If you are curious about extremely large doses of mushrooms you can look up 'Kilindi lyi' on youtube. He's a very good speaker with some bizarre ideas... probably a side effect of taking the doses he talks about. Promoting those sort of doses seems kind of reckless; I'm not sure what you are missing at 8,9,10 grams that makes you want to eat 20 or 30.

My own experiences (with sclerotia) of dying, becoming God, vast paranoid delusions of alien enslavement.... that seemed like a reasonable point at which to stop increasing the dose. Like I say, beyond this point the trips seemed to become more chaotic, with less sense of actually being present during them, so I'll leave the unfeasably large doses to Kilindi Lyi and let him explain them on youtube

Quote:

And don't get me wrong (and i'll probably sound like an uninformed and/or overly enthusiastic newbie) but i want those experiences that you describe, the feeling like you're dying and stuff ones (not the hardly remembering it stuff). I want the unpleasant and terrifying trips, i want all known things to be blasted away and be thrust into the nothing. It seems so interesting, fascinating, liberating in a strange way i suppose. (you probably get what i'm trying to say)

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I probably sound like a killjoy but I do think people always need to be careful when taking high doses of psychedelics, and think hard about whether they really do want to take that much. I don't think it's fair to suggest a high dose of truffles without at least pointing out that it could be a very intense trip. You don't 'handle' a strong trip, you just have to let it take over, however difficult that transition is.

My first proper trip involved tripping in a police cell so I do have personal experience of what can happen when the confusion of a strong trip overwhelms an inexperienced user. That whole experience was pretty mild compared to my later trips on mushrooms / sclerotia...



The desire for a really strong trip can rapidly diminish when it starts to hit you. Sometimes it feels like the drug is probing your psyche and looking for a weak spot. You start to feel anxious and question what you are doing, and an overwhelming feeling of wrongness takes over. The pressure of the trip bears down on you with a feeling of hideous intensity and nausea, you clutch the bedclothes as if you are on a white-knuckle ride, and you are, you are, the walls are turning green and you are afraid to close your eyes, afraid to gaze into the depths of the writhing inferno of fluorescent death...

This stuff can really fuck with your mind and give you the fear and it can be difficult not to panic simply because of the godawful intensity of what you are experiencing. And the intensity is increasing and your thoughts are spiralling and you are starting to go a little bit crazy.

In a way this is fun, but in the moment it can feel absolutely awful. Your trip journal starts to read like a suicide note, the bedlinen looks like a shroud, you feel as if something is going horribly wrong with your body, you panic, a broken reality is coming through you sideways, your heart races, you are dying, you will never see anyone you care about again...



At some point, long after you have vowed to never, ever, do this again, you may start to realize that you are tripping out, and the whole thing calms down just enough for you to start enjoying it. Other times the trip doesn't release you from its grip until it peaks and you disappear into oblivion, only to return in a blaze of mania and grandiose delusions....

All this reminds me of one of my favourite horror movies - 1408. The movie isn't especially psychedelic but it does strongly remind me of the mindfuck involved in taking a large dose of mushrooms inside a hotel room...

I suppose it's a strange contradiction; I have fond memories of the most terrifying experiences of my entire life. If I'd been subjected to those doses in Guantanamo Bay it would be considered psychological torture, but when you voluntarily do it to yourself, and then the rest of the trip is so epic that you do it again

If you do find yourself in a horrendously strong trip, remember that it is all just a mindfuck, once you are able to calm down you will have a big grin on your face and start to enjoy it...

Also I found something I wrote while I was tripping describing the gradations of the insanity between 30-45g of sclerotia. It may not be 100% scientific:

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30g to see the creatures.
35g to meet the creatures.
40g to be eaten by the creatures.
45g to become the creatures

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I'm not saying all high dose trips are doom and gloom or like this for everyone, just trying to give an idea of how the intensity feels sometimes. As long as you don't expect high doses to be endless fun, and you are prepared to face something that could be very challenging, then go for it. I find high dose trips usually start out uncomfortable/challenging/scary and then transition to become blissful/exhilarating/euphoric.

I wouldn't necessarily expect 30g sclerotia to be overwhelming but it should at least be enough for a decent trip. It all very much depends on potency but 30g+ of sclerotia is definitely in high dose territory when the potency is good.

Quote:

i want all known things to be blasted away and be thrust into the nothing. It seems so interesting, fascinating, liberating in a strange way i suppose.

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Quote:

Yes that's the one. I've never tried DMT and I do enjoy the length of mushroom trips, so I understand what you mean there.  With mushrooms "how much can I eat (or drink in tea) without throwing up" is more of a limit than anything to do with receptors in the brain. DMT is closely chemically related to psilocybin so it would be an obvious choice for anyone seeking something 'beyond' the usual mushroom experience, rather than simply eating huge amounts.

There is a synthetic analogue of psilocybin (psilacetin) which would be easier to consume in very large doses, but I don't think much research has been done on this; there is much more information on large doses of LSD. In discussions on 'thumbprints' e.t.c it is often suggested that there must be a point at which the receptors involved are completely saturated.

If you are curious about extremely large doses of mushrooms you can look up 'Kilindi lyi' on youtube. He's a very good speaker with some bizarre ideas... probably a side effect of taking the doses he talks about. Promoting those sort of doses seems kind of reckless; I'm not sure what you are missing at 8,9,10 grams that makes you want to eat 20 or 30.

My own experiences (with sclerotia) of dying, becoming God, vast paranoid delusions of alien enslavement.... that seemed like a reasonable point at which to stop increasing the dose. Like I say, beyond this point the trips seemed to become more chaotic, with less sense of actually being present during them, so I'll leave the unfeasably large doses to Kilindi Lyi and let him explain them on youtube

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Quote:

I probably sound like a killjoy but I do think people always need to be careful when taking high doses of psychedelics, and think hard about whether they really do want to take that much. I don't think it's fair to suggest a high dose of truffles without at least pointing out that it could be a very intense trip. You don't 'handle' a strong trip, you just have to let it take over, however difficult that transition is.

My first proper trip involved tripping in a police cell so I do have personal experience of what can happen when the confusion of a strong trip overwhelms an inexperienced user. That whole experience was pretty mild compared to my later trips on mushrooms / sclerotia...



The desire for a really strong trip can rapidly diminish when it starts to hit you. Sometimes it feels like the drug is probing your psyche and looking for a weak spot. You start to feel anxious and question what you are doing, and an overwhelming feeling of wrongness takes over. The pressure of the trip bears down on you with a feeling of hideous intensity and nausea, you clutch the bedclothes as if you are on a white-knuckle ride, and you are, you are, the walls are turning green and you are afraid to close your eyes, afraid to gaze into the depths of the writhing inferno of fluorescent death...

This stuff can really fuck with your mind and give you the fear and it can be difficult not to panic simply because of the godawful intensity of what you are experiencing. And the intensity is increasing and your thoughts are spiralling and you are starting to go a little bit crazy.

In a way this is fun, but in the moment it can feel absolutely awful. Your trip journal starts to read like a suicide note, the bedlinen looks like a shroud, you feel as if something is going horribly wrong with your body, you panic, a broken reality is coming through you sideways, your heart races, you are dying, you will never see anyone you care about again...

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Quote:

I'm not saying all high dose trips are doom and gloom or like this for everyone, just trying to give an idea of how the intensity feels sometimes. As long as you don't expect high doses to be endless fun, and you are prepared to face something that could be very challenging, then go for it. I find high dose trips usually start out uncomfortable/challenging/scary and then transition to become blissful/exhilarating/euphoric.

I wouldn't necessarily expect 30g sclerotia to be overwhelming but it should at least be enough for a decent trip. It all very much depends on potency but 30g+ of sclerotia is definitely in high dose territory when the potency is good.

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Quote:

Yes, that's all part of the appeal for me. I enjoy the dark fascination of an alien inner world, it's sinister beauty and impossible geometry. But there comes a moment when you are being shown some glowing subterranean nightmare space, and there is some kind of altar with a snakelike, reptilian design, and you start to fear where the trip is taking you...

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Synthetic psilocybin? Sounds interesting but without the certainty that it's safe i'm not gonna touch that with a 10ft pole. LSD is the safer option yeah.

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And dude, if you meant the above quoted part as a deterrent or something to make me (or others reading this) reconsider wanting a very strong trip, but to me it's more of an advertisement for it lel.

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I think it's one of those things which you can read and think "that sounds cool, I want a trip like that" or "hell no!". A high dose trip that you aren't ready for can easily end up feeling like this one - MY BAD TRIP STORY. That short report (not one of mine) reminds me of several of my trips where I was a bit bold with the dose; sometimes you just have to ride out the feelings of panic and let the trip break you down before you rise up again. If you are committed to exploring the depths of your mind you will get through it to where you want to go

If you get the dose right you can settle into a zone where the trip is strong enough to be thrilling but not so strong that it's an ordeal. Even if the dose is a bit too heavy, just ride it out and later the trip will probably settle down into something that feels awesome. One reason I like shroom trips is that they give off this sinister alien vibe, but at the core of the experience they seem to give out a positive energy. One of the keys to tripping at higher doses is being able to understand that the intensity and ferocity of the experience is drawing you towards something that you do not need to be afraid of - resulting in a feeling of awe rather than panic

Sending good vibes for your next trip!