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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Gourmet and Medicinal Mushrooms
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Re: morel cult thread [Re: tryptkaloids]
    #25852309 -

lol well if it's that easy to grow sclerotia I'm off to a good start.  Been too busy to get much research done.  Thanks for letting me know, I can check and see if i messed up or not lol


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Re: morel cult thread [Re: tryptkaloids]
    #25852576 -

tryptkaloids said:
looks like morel sclerotia to me


Yep, I second that. Hard to tell from the picture but looks like morel mycelium and sclerotia to me too. If it's brownish orange to orange, fluffy and knobbly it's the development of scleortia. The mycelium seems to bruise or oxidize to a brownish color from my personal observations.

Here's some pictures that may help identifying in the future.


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Re: morel cult thread [Re: DigitalRhizae]
    #25852852 -

Thanks Digital!

Now I have to ask, what is that set up in the second and third pics?  Is the tub just a bulking up stage for sclerotia to form before planting outdoors?


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Re: morel cult thread [Re: SunnyDayze]
    #25853059 -

It was a failed attempt at fruiting indoors on different substrates. That was the only one of 3 or 4 different recipes that survived and didn't contaminate. It was just a 50/50 cow manure/vermiculite mix. The smaller sandwich container on top was an attempt to emulate a study from China I read where they have successful fruiting outdoors, which they believed was partly attributed to an exogenous nutrition layer being added and removed. It contained sawdust, rye grain, calcium sand (source of calcium carbonate) and gypsum. But after I removed the exogenous layer and cold shocked the substrate in the fridge, it stopped growing completely. I did harvest the scleortia from it though.

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Re: morel cult thread [Re: DigitalRhizae]
    #25853113 -

in my experience the sclerotia appeared from the edges first, but they are like tiny balls but the ones you have appears more like some contam.. i dont know much about morels though..

mine looks like this..



appears white because of frost. and one thing i have read about morel mycelium is that they changes the color of agar from light to dark as they progress. mine has gone absolutely dark


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Rams' DIY spawn bags

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Re: morel cult thread [Re: rams]
    #25854673 -

rams said:
in my experience the sclerotia appeared from the edges first, but they are like tiny balls but the ones you have appears more like some contam


I'm confused here, her plates do have the mycelium growing on the edges, it looks like it's going aerial, which will form the fluffy mycelium and potentially turn to sclerotia. The right dish with the tissue on the upper right also looks like the beginning of this.

I had some jars where the mycelium would crawl up the side and form scleortia on the side of the jar outside of the medium.

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Re: morel cult thread [Re: DigitalRhizae]
    #25855034 -

I took the plates out of the garbage just to look and they did have tiny little balls.  I think you were right Digital. 

I put one plate to oats today and transferred to 6 more plates.  Have a bit more time again to get into this.


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Re: morel cult thread [Re: DigitalRhizae]
    #25855161 -

SunnyDayze said:
I took the plates out of the garbage just to look and they did have tiny little balls.  I think you were right Digital. 

I put one plate to oats today and transferred to 6 more plates.  Have a bit more time again to get into this.


thankfully you dindnt opened the plate and then threw them like often i do :rofl:


DigitalRhizae said:
rams said:
in my experience the sclerotia appeared from the edges first, but they are like tiny balls but the ones you have appears more like some contam


I'm confused here, her plates do have the mycelium growing on the edges, it looks like it's going aerial, which will form the fluffy mycelium and potentially turn to sclerotia. The right dish with the tissue on the upper right also looks like the beginning of this.

I had some jars where the mycelium would crawl up the side and form scleortia on the side of the jar outside of the medium.


i think you are right. all's well if end's well


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Rams' DIY spawn bags

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Re: morel cult thread [Re: rams]
    #25855505 -

http://l 

So this is my second time at this, fist attempt was a failure because I used straight grains so hopefully this works

http://


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Re: morel cult thread [Re: 7Suns]
    #25855515 -

what have you used this time ?


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Rams' DIY spawn bags

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Re: morel cult thread [Re: rams]
    #25855522 -

You see in the two pics, one is straight grain with morel mycelium but no stones, and the other pic is of 20% wbs and 80% potting soil


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Re: morel cult thread [Re: 7Suns]
    #25855542 -

what was the problem with straight grain.. i have seen Chinese method where they use straight grain as spawn.

what will you inoculate it with..agar wedge or LC.?


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Edited by rams (03/06/19 04:17 AM)

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Re: morel cult thread [Re: 7Suns] * 1
    #25855547 -

So I've read up on it for the past 2 years, extensively, patents, 3rd party documents, etc etc, and what I've surmised is it is likely specific to rufobrunea because they aren't restricted to a specific season, also exogenous layer and none nutritional layer are key to stone development, also deducted that wild fire isn't a trigger but more of an indication, wild fires happen mostly during periods of drought, the patent mentioned specifically soil dehydration to about 55%  also forest fires would allow more sunlight and rain to the forest floor, so an artificial drought period is another key factor which also makes sense because the patent then states asexual conidia is induced to its sexual stage by excessive watering, so going from the drought (which also explains why they would develop storage cells like sclerotia) to a period of abundant rain, triggers the formation of pins, also explains why they favor well drained soil, and why the substrate mixture described in the patent is well drained but also capable of some retention, I genuinely believe all the pieces are there but no one has been able to piece it together, sorry I'm a little scatter brained


[list]
  • exogenous layer

  • drought conditions to ensure large stones

  • stones are separated from food source and replanted in none sterilize potting soil/wood chip mix with holes in the bottom of the tray for water to run off

  • (experimental) possibly allow stones or stone/substrate to air out for a day and or also freeze them to see if it plays any role in induction

  • after a period of one week of resting an sending out new hyphae (to either find new food, and go back into asexual resting body or changing to sexual ascocarps primordial stage ) they are watered excessively for at least 24 hours, which induces them to their reproductive cycles

  • soil temperature should rest about 55f and continuous air circulation and humidity maintained






    So it seems that the triggers for primordial formation and between the two types of mycelium asexual and sexual are cycled by drought/wet periods
    to store or go to spore it's a constant struggle


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    Re: morel cult thread [Re: 7Suns]
        #25856890 -

    Maybe sclerotia production is more species dependent on different substrates? But I had no problem producing them on rye grains, although they were smallish, but grew regardless. I cloned wild black morels from B.C.

    The only thing I didn't do with my test was to allow it to dry out (but I don't remember reading this) and flood the substrate after removing the exogenous layer. I was afraid to water log the substrate and it didn't make sense to me to do it if the sub is already at or near field capacity. But the Chinese study I read did suggest that by flooding the substrate it encourages beneficial bacteria to feed on the substrate which in turn encourages fruiting.

    But I think you're right about M. rufobrunea. All the studies I read that had successful fruiting indoor has been with this species.

    This past fall I inoculated a large portion of my yard in various areas with black morel, as well as a small test bed with a test substrate, using the liquid culture method. I don't have much hope for it to work, but I guess I'll find out within the next few months.

    Edited by DigitalRhizae (03/07/19 09:59 PM)

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    Re: morel cult thread [Re: DigitalRhizae]
        #25857066 -

    I genuinely don't believe it has anything to do with bacterial interactions in the soil, it's a simple sexual cycle that's engaged by drought/wet periods, your sub shouldn't be at field capacity, it should be sandy and easily drained for this purpose, they are always found in well drained soils, and it was mentioned in the patent, rufobrunea is the only landscape morel that is known to grow out of season, and yes they will make stones on agar and straight grain but they don't get large enough to be used for ascocarp formation


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    Re: morel cult thread [Re: 7Suns]
        #25859540 -

    Yea, the substrate I had was 1 of 4. I was testing different ones, going from most nutritious to least, which also would increase aeration and drainage due to the ingredients. Unfortunately something must have gone awry with my pasteurization process or my grains harbored contaminants and I lost 3 of the test substrates. The cow manure is less than ideal because it forms a mud when mixed with water.

    I remember reading that the substrates are still brought to a 60%-65% moisture content or field capacity, inoculated, allowed to colonize, cold shocked and then flooded to induce fruiting.

    I still wonder how important the secondary planting of the sclerotia is. If its primary function is to act as a storage vessel due to environmental conditions and then regrow mycelium when conditions permit, allowing the cycle to continue or produce fruit, wouldn't it stand to reason that it could potentially fruit from the first stage of growth like any other mushroom? And how important is the size of the sclerotia? I know there's suggestion about the planting density of them, but if they give rise to new mycelium and to new sclerotia, then wouldn't the actual physical size not be an issue, as long as its enough to fully colonize the substrate?

    I should try again with the sclerotia I harvested, and with that container full of mycelium/sclerotia, if it's not dead.

    Edited by DigitalRhizae (03/07/19 09:58 PM)

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    Re: morel cult thread [Re: DigitalRhizae]
        #25859855 -

    I know almost nothing about morel cultivation so all I can do is apply my knowledge of other species. but even cubes struggle with straight manure. we use vermiiculite to aerate it and make it more "fluffy" and with psychedelic sclerotia producers leaving the sclerotia in when you spawn it tends to increase yields. so it stands to reason it will help other stone producers :shrug:


    --------------------
    "Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage
    Flowchart for Recommended plan of action.
    Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms
    Use the Damn search engine
    After you know what you're doing, take a break 
    Pick a book, Make some chips!
    Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
     

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    Re: morel cult thread [Re: tryptkaloids]
        #25860611 -

    Yes sorry, I failed to mention it was the basic 50/50 verm/manure recipe. But even with the vermiculite it's still fairly sloppy when compared to other materials. I remember it clumping less then the other substrates I mixed up, but I can't remember for certain, it was a while ago.

     The common train of thought with morel spawning (if I recall correctly) is you produce the sclerotia on a separate substrate, harvest them and plant those sclerotia to a fruiting substrate. I tried to skip this and just go from grain with sclerotia to the fruiting substrate and if it didn't work to harvest the sclerotia and try the other method.

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    Re: morel cult thread [Re: DigitalRhizae]
        #25860618 -

    that's a bit low on the verm. but morels aren't manure lovers anyway :shrug:


    --------------------
    "Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage
    Flowchart for Recommended plan of action.
    Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms
    Use the Damn search engine
    After you know what you're doing, take a break 
    Pick a book, Make some chips!
    Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
     

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    Re: morel cult thread [Re: tryptkaloids]
        #25860912 -

    Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think it can be said with conviction what substrate they actually prefer. I've had a boss find one in the lawn under a spruce tree, I went on a short foray where they were found on a forest floor covered with moss amongst poplar, birch, spruce and pine. It seems they're more of a secondary or tertiary decomposer then anything, which composted manure would fall under.

    There was a reason to my madness lol. The other substrates I made had no manure in it and was as close as I could get to what's described in the Garry Mills process, the Chinese paper I read and a mixture of stuff I wanted to try.

    The composted cow manure I had was pretty full of straw and I believe wood chips because it was the bedding used for their pen. I wasn't really counting on the straight manure one to work or even grow at all to be honest. But it was the only one that didn't contaminate lol, go figure.

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    Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Gourmet and Medicinal Mushrooms
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