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    #25744984 -

Post deleted by tommywoo12

Reason for deletion: done

Edited by tommywoo12 (01/17/19 11:16 PM)

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Re: Ignorance is bliss? Are shrooms worth it? [Re: tommywoo12]
    #25744999 -

I'm always aware that my mental state rarely matches the philosophical values that I have grown to accept as possibly ultimate reality. So I resolve the conflict with the acceptance that it is a process or journey that I'm on.

And since my experiences have only been threshold perhaps I can say with certainty that I do not share the lingering PTS syndrome that heroic doses can inflict on the user.

Quote:
but I also got some residual paranoia which affects me every now and then.


Edited by Buster_Brown (01/15/19 08:40 AM)

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Re: Ignorance is bliss? Are shrooms worth it? [Re: tommywoo12]
    #25745008 -

The same thing happened to me as far as getting "let down by the world" after a trip goes. Psychs bring out a childlike innocence, and when combined with idealism it makes one a rather easy target for exploitation.

It taught me that it is foolish to assume that all people are unequivocally good or divine just because I had an incredible personal experience. Be practical and look out for yourself, and if someone gives you reason not to trust them, take them at their word.

I think Jesus and Buddha taught ideals that we can aspire to - Jesus that of an ideal society, and Buddha that of unassailable inner peace. But I don't think it makes sense to assume that the world as it is reflects these ideals to a degree even approaching perfection. The world as it is is as you say - shallow and gamelike.

I disagree though that the rules and people are silly. I think an important part of mature spirituality is the recognition of the dark side of human nature, and part of that is learning some mastery over one's environment and the people in it. One needs to become proficient at getting what one wants in the world. There are myriad ways to do this, probably many of them still unknown, and they are open to those who seek them out. And, the focused pursuit of success in a given domain or venture can be sort of enlightening in itself. 

Otherwise, one ends up a broken idealist. Been there and it sucks. In my opinion, that is a result of having an inaccurate worldview which subsequently causes disappointment. If one sees reality clearly and understands other peoples' foibles, this sort of disappointment rarely happens. I feel I'm getting there and things are better than they used to be. Just my .02

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Re: Ignorance is bliss? Are shrooms worth it? [Re: tommywoo12]
    #25745034 -

when you compare your plight to that of Buddha or Christ I think you are being a bit too dramatic.

But know that it's a thing to get that dramatic when really impressed with your experiences, especially during coming of age; but also it is a matter of inexperience in general that you might go to such extremes, so little yet to compare it to.

don't blame society, don't blame the universe, don't even blame yourself, but begin to find your way and keep on beginning, and this will reconnect you with the wonder you had glimpses of.

forget buddha and christ, if you meet them on the way, give them some coin and carry on.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Ignorance is bliss? Are shrooms worth it? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25745047 -

You already took the red pill OP, now you have to deal with the consequences.



One of those is learning how to exist, accept, and adapt to this clusterfuck of a society we live in.

I wish I had some magic answer to give you, but there just isn't one. It takes, work, lots of it, and all of it done from the inside out.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe

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Re: Ignorance is bliss? Are shrooms worth it? [Re: Jokeshopbeard] * 1
    #25745161 -

the key is the self
is it not?

while tripping self is seen as more fluid, or transcended, or more mutable

and perhaps one chooses to trip in a beautiful meadow rather than a war zone

so there was a vacation from likes and dislikes, or one of the main ways self manifests

after coming down you find the world too coarse and blame it

this is of course missing the lesson that was just taught

because the lessons were given freely

in other words without having to earn them

so to loosen the bonds of self again

it is necessary to work on letting go of likes and dislikes

and complaining is the opposite of that endeavor

while meditation, such as vipassana, confronts the issue

so among those who do vipassana meditation you will find people

who relate to these issues

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Re: Ignorance is bliss? Are shrooms worth it? [Re: laughingdog]
    #25745170 -

Great post man. Your line about war zones made me think of this:

But the need for frequent chemical vacations from intolerable selfhood and repulsive surroundings will undoubtedly remain;

What is needed is a new drug which will relieve and console our suffering species without doing more harm in the long run than it does good in the short.
--Alduous Huxley


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe

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Re: Ignorance is bliss? Are shrooms worth it? [Re: Jokeshopbeard] * 2
    #25746184 -

I've a similar story to the one you describe Tommywoo, for me the first shifts out of the darkness were catalysed by, as others have alluded to, acceptance. Acceptance of things like:

Not all of what the shrooms show you is practical.
Not all of what the shrooms show you is efficient.
Not everyone has attended the classes shrooms teach.
Not all of what the shrooms teach is culturally appropriate.
Not all of what the shrooms teach can be put into words.
Not all of what the shrooms teach can be understood logically.
That your pre-shroom story has been gutted and needs rebuilding.

Resisting these things prolonged the doing of the work other people have alluded to, the integration of the new knowing into the old knowing and finding a way to operate in the world. You brought the ticket now you have to take the ride, the ride doesn't stop when the shrooms wear off. The world is full of people all on different planes of consciousness, expanding yours with shrooms means you are going to see more of the bad and more of the good, like OrangeJ said it's imperative you find a way to interface with the badness in the world especially now you see more of it, remember, it was always there.

I'm still working on my self, the "problem" isn't solved but for people on "the path" when is it ever solved, in my view the only people that solve this problem live in monestries in silence all day - not something that appeals to me just yet.

Thinking there was this thing that was once perfect that is now broken doesn't help either I've found, you were never perfect, just less conscious and less afflicted. Affliction can be overcome, most simply there is just work to be done and needs to be met, a constant process of evolution and finding ways for that evolution to function in it's environment without having it's boat rocked too much. This all takes time and with more time comes more peace of mind and skillfullness, something I hope continues for myself.

The bliss of ignorance is the bliss of a rat in a cage with a cocaine button, "things" bring about the bliss e.g. chemicals, cars, houses, parties, events, spectacles, sensations, etc. Shrooms taught me there is a bliss beyond things, a bliss interupted and perturbed by the chasers of things, the demands of things. I'm trying to work out what things I really need.

Try not to take it all too seriously and be careful of the stories you tell yourself, worth it or not the shrooms were taken, things seen that cannot be unseen, think of yourself as a surfer in the barrel of a wave, keep riding, hold strong, mind your balance (i.e. do the work) and the wave will spit you out into calmer waters.

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Re: Ignorance is bliss? Are shrooms worth it? [Re: MayaRefugee]
    #25746206 -

Since I was a little kid it has been easy for me to induce dreaming and I actually had lilipution hallucinations from a fever when I was like 8, which were terrifying. Coming back is always a relief because hallucinations are not real. If they are fun, that's cool, but what about reality? I am not a very creative person, but I do recognize the potential for enhanced creativity, but I have never really made any ground breaking realizations while tripping, or even dreaming. I think, really the truths come afterwards. The experience helps to break up psychic blockage or spiritual plaque.

MayaRefugee said:
The bliss of ignorance is the bliss of a rat in a cage with a cocaine button, "things" bring about the bliss e.g. chemicals, cars, houses, parties, events, spectacles, sensations, etc. Shrooms taught me there is a bliss beyond things, a bliss interupted and perturbed by the chasers of things, the demands of things. I'm trying to work out what things I really need.


This is a very pragmatic definition of ignorance. Consumerism at our present course is ignorant. Environmental justice does require a certain kind of individual asceticism which is known to be spiritually rewarding. I love tripping and I used to do it waaayyy too much. It never really gave me bliss, though. The true bliss for me is when I get in the zone from running or riding my bike (smoke some weed and ride if you want to cheat.) After about 45min I get in the zone and it can last for 20min. Apparently, brain scans prove that only brain centers required for locomotion are active, which is an important mode to have. Dream mode is cool, but I would rather be in the zone. (I wonder if the improved performance is because thinking consumes so many calories.)

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Re: Ignorance is bliss? Are shrooms worth it? [Re: BicycleT]
    #25746240 -

It's a definition of ignorance born of experience, one where bliss was present with no "I" grasping at it.

One where the following algorithms were not at play.

I have x and therefore feel y.
I don't have x and therefore feel y.
I'm doing x and therefore feel y.
I'm not doing x and therefore feel y.

I think this is called dependant causation in some Eastern schools, bliss was independant of causation, there was no "I" to frame the experience, it just was, pure camera with no narrator - that is what I'm alluding to in my reference to causations dependant on other factors i.e. acquisition of things. This was chemically induced so it was essentially dependant but it was the view not the bodily sensation invoking the bliss, that's what I think anyway.

Edited by MayaRefugee (01/15/19 09:08 PM)

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Re: Ignorance is bliss? Are shrooms worth it? [Re: MayaRefugee]
    #25746345 -

Tommywoo, I forget to include a reference to this bible qoute:

"Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves."...Matthew 10:16

To me this reflects what others have said about keeping your guard up/protecting your innocence as to avoid exploitation and unnecessary suffering.

Kind of like knowing your enemy, how they think, etc. as to not incur avoidable losses or damage to your peace of mind.

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Re: Ignorance is bliss? Are shrooms worth it? *DELETED* [Re: MayaRefugee]
    #25746696 -

Post deleted by tommywoo12

Reason for deletion: -

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Re: Ignorance is bliss? Are shrooms worth it? *DELETED* [Re: MayaRefugee]
    #25746706 -

Post deleted by tommywoo12

Reason for deletion: -

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Re: Ignorance is bliss? Are shrooms worth it? [Re: tommywoo12]
    #25746717 -

Recognition that behind convention, conditioning, education, formal thought, pursuit of desire, habituation, tradition etc. is a point of view free of expectations of others, the activities of what you refer to as "operating systems", measurements of the self, comparison with others, competition, etc. where none of that means shit. Relief from all that is bliss.

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Re: Ignorance is bliss? Are shrooms worth it? *DELETED* [Re: MayaRefugee]
    #25746747 -

Post deleted by tommywoo12

Reason for deletion: -

Edited by tommywoo12 (01/16/19 04:05 AM)

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Re: Ignorance is bliss? Are shrooms worth it? [Re: tommywoo12]
    #25746767 -

And or approaching the game with a more playful attitude where it isn't dog-eat-dog, learning how to stand your ground when there are dogs in the room, understanding your rights within the "game of life" and what your options are when the dogs get out of hand, not putting such an onus on winning the "trophy", realizing there are enough trophies for everyone, etc.

It sounds to me like you want to be "Wolf of Wall Street" or Gordon Gecko but the shrooms won't let you, maybe there's a happiness to be found without the need to be psychopathic or sociopathic? Maybe wanting the trophies so bad you're prepared to be sociopathic or psychopatic requires a delusion that the shrooms have broken? Maybe work on why you consider psychopathy and sociopathy to be "an edge" to the game of life as you see it? Maybe reconsider what the game of life is?

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Re: Ignorance is bliss? Are shrooms worth it? [Re: tommywoo12]
    #25746826 -

tommywoo12 said:
I agree with what you say. But a human experience is one that leaves no room for spirituality or idealism. We may be spiritual beings but we still are having a purely animalistic human experience - not a spiritual one.


Ever heard this one before?

"Assuming to "know" anything in this realm is just an admittance of deep confusion."

tommywoo12 said:
Shrooms are way beyond what a normal human being "should" experience because there simply is no practical use for it


Please tell me how you have the authority to state this for all humans, given you have only your own subjective experience to base this opinion off.

tommywoo12 said:
I think there are better ways to win the game of life - for instance by developing psychopathic/sociopathic traits


This makes you sound incredibly young and naive. You think you know what the game of life is - I thought I did once too - but until you can admit you don't know you remain in ignorance. You're still holding onto it. You want that easy bliss that comes with ignorance.

At least own your shit, rather than to cast your judgements upon us all.

You should probably do more shrooms.

Learn to let go.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe

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Re: Ignorance is bliss? Are shrooms worth it? *DELETED* [Re: MayaRefugee]
    #25746830 -

Post deleted by tommywoo12

Reason for deletion: -

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Re: Ignorance is bliss? Are shrooms worth it? [Re: tommywoo12]
    #25746848 -

Forget the trip and slip back you'll be fine.


--------------------
Just a fool on the hill.

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Re: Ignorance is bliss? Are shrooms worth it? [Re: pineninja]
    #25746858 -

Welcome to the family OP. The mission if U choose to accept it. Teach the ignorant our ways and find the others. It started in the 60's and continues on till today. We are the torch carriers.

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