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but I also got some residual paranoia which affects me every now and then.

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MayaRefugee said:

The bliss of ignorance is the bliss of a rat in a cage with a cocaine button, "things" bring about the bliss e.g. chemicals, cars, houses, parties, events, spectacles, sensations, etc. Shrooms taught me there is a bliss beyond things, a bliss interupted and perturbed by the chasers of things, the demands of things. I'm trying to work out what things I really need.

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tommywoo12 said:

I agree with what you say. But a human experience is one that leaves no room for spirituality or idealism. We may be spiritual beings but we still are having a purely animalistic human experience - not a spiritual one.

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tommywoo12 said:

Shrooms are way beyond what a normal human being "should" experience because there simply is no practical use for it

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tommywoo12 said:

I think there are better ways to win the game of life - for instance by developing psychopathic/sociopathic traits

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tommywoo12 said:

MayaRefugee said:

And or approaching the game with a more playful attitude where it isn't dog-eat-dog, learning how to stand your ground when there are dogs in the room, understanding your rights within the "game of life" and what your options are when the dogs get out of hand, not putting such an onus on winning the "trophy", realizing there are enough trophies for everyone, etc.

It sounds to me like you want to be "Wolf of Wall Street" or Gordon Gecko but the shrooms won't let you, maybe there's a happiness to be found without the need to be psychopathic or sociopathic? Maybe wanting the trophies so bad you're prepared to be sociopathic or psychopatic requires a delusion that the shrooms have broken? Maybe work on why you consider psychopathy and sociopathy to be "an edge" to the game of life as you see it? Maybe reconsider what the game of life is?

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From an evolution standpoint it is in fact a dog eat dog society. The game of life is  to attain power. Spread our dna. Everybody is playing this game. Altruism is merely a tit for tat strategy employed by our selfish gene. I don't think a playful attitude will get one far in life.

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redgreenvines said:

bliss is not something experienced when you edit the contents of your ongoing internal dialog.

it is a fleeting artifact of a well deserved pause in the chatter.

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tommywoo12 said:

From an evolution standpoint it is in fact a dog eat dog society. The game of life is  to attain power. Spread our dna. Everybody is playing this game. Altruism is merely a tit for tat strategy employed by our selfish gene. I don't think a playful attitude will get one far in life.

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MayaRefugee said:

I've a similar story to the one you describe Tommywoo, for me the first shifts out of the darkness were catalysed by, as others have alluded to, acceptance. Acceptance of things like:

Not all of what the shrooms show you is practical.
Not all of what the shrooms show you is efficient.
Not everyone has attended the classes shrooms teach.
Not all of what the shrooms teach is culturally appropriate.
Not all of what the shrooms teach can be put into words.
Not all of what the shrooms teach can be understood logically.
That your pre-shroom story has been gutted and needs rebuilding.

Resisting these things prolonged the doing of the work other people have alluded to, the integration of the new knowing into the old knowing and finding a way to operate in the world. You brought the ticket now you have to take the ride, the ride doesn't stop when the shrooms wear off. The world is full of people all on different planes of consciousness, expanding yours with shrooms means you are going to see more of the bad and more of the good, like OrangeJ said it's imperative you find a way to interface with the badness in the world especially now you see more of it, remember, it was always there.

I'm still working on my self, the "problem" isn't solved but for people on "the path" when is it ever solved, in my view the only people that solve this problem live in monestries in silence all day - not something that appeals to me just yet.

Thinking there was this thing that was once perfect that is now broken doesn't help either I've found, you were never perfect, just less conscious and less afflicted. Affliction can be overcome, most simply there is just work to be done and needs to be met, a constant process of evolution and finding ways for that evolution to function in it's environment without having it's boat rocked too much. This all takes time and with more time comes more peace of mind and skillfullness, something I hope continues for myself.

The bliss of ignorance is the bliss of a rat in a cage with a cocaine button, "things" bring about the bliss e.g. chemicals, cars, houses, parties, events, spectacles, sensations, etc. Shrooms taught me there is a bliss beyond things, a bliss interupted and perturbed by the chasers of things, the demands of things. I'm trying to work out what things I really need.

Try not to take it all too seriously and be careful of the stories you tell yourself, worth it or not the shrooms were taken, things seen that cannot be unseen, think of yourself as a surfer in the barrel of a wave, keep riding, hold strong, mind your balance (i.e. do the work) and the wave will spit you out into calmer waters.

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