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Offlinenubious
1up on the rest

Registered: 10/20/02
Posts: 534
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
Blissfully mislead...
    #1296602 - 02/10/03 01:52 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Please excuse my rant, as this isn't directed to anyone in particular, but I feel very strongly about this and it fits the topic of this forum...

I'm tired of hearing about people who have taken copious amounts of drugs and come to a state that brings about some sort of astronomical epiphany. I'm willing to bet that most of these people are those who haven't accepted the fact that they might have a drug problem, and they're using spirituality as a cop-out, justifying their right do take these substances. It's true that drugs can help you achieve different levels of awareness - something I'm sure we've al experienced, but when someone does drugs to achieve these spiritual experiences when, in their non-high states they don't practice spirituality at all, I feel they can be diagnosed with having a problem.

I'm sick of seeing sketched out kids who think they know what the hell they're doing. Drugs can open your eyes to new worlds, but the reality is we live in this one.


--------------------
No one knows the worth of innocence till he knows it is gone forever, and that money can't buy it back. Not the saint, but the sinner that repenteth, is he to whom the full length and breadth, and height and depth, of life's meaning is revealed. Good and evil loose all objective meaning and are seen as equally necessary and contrasting elements in the masterpiece that is the universe.


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Invisiblebert
bodhi

Registered: 10/14/02
Posts: 2,819
Loc: state
Re: Blissfully mislead... [Re: nubious]
    #1296621 - 02/10/03 01:56 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Man, I wouldn't wanna live in your reality. Sounds boring.


--------------------
Persons denying the existence of robots may be robots themselves.


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OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
Re: Blissfully mislead... [Re: nubious]
    #1296635 - 02/10/03 01:58 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

do you have a question or something you'd like us to discuss?


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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Offlinesoylent_green
The greatEnitsuj
Female

Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 765
Loc: Ontario
Last seen: 10 years, 9 months
Re: Blissfully mislead... [Re: nubious]
    #1296703 - 02/10/03 02:19 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

i know what your saying, some people do use spirtualty as an excuse for doing drugs, and i think it's wong.
i am currently reading the book called 'zig zag zen' it's really good so far, and it states that a lot of people who have converted to buddisim, was because of drugs, but this number is also very small.
i think it is more than possible to realize spirtuality through drug use.but not everyone can.
take a look at all these people on this forum. seems like a lot dosen't it? but then think of all the other people in the world that also do drugs....compared to that, we are only a small handful who have come to use drugs as a spirtuital thing.

so i do understand what your saying, but i also know, that i would have never have experence what i have without the help of mushrooms.
and as for addiction, i believe in my friends, and i know that if i, or anyone else ever got too out of hand, we would be there to help eachother.


--------------------
What fun is it in Nirvana while other beings are suffering?


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OfflineDavid_Scape
Anti Genius
Male

Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 878
Loc: U.S. of muthafuckin A.
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
Re: Blissfully mislead... [Re: Strumpling]
    #1296718 - 02/10/03 02:23 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I believe he is trying to point out that, people who only seem to be spiritual on drugs may be using this as an excuse just to hide the fact that they may have an addiction or escapist problem. 

Plus, he seems to say that one should not restrict his spirituallity to just psychedelics but also to the world where we all meet in day to day life.
These are two good points I see no real problem with.

Possible modes for discussion are:

*To what extent should one use drugs in their spiritual life?
*What are signs that tell me I might have a problem?
*Why are bert and Earth_Droid seemingly hostile to these ideas?
*Is there a personal experience that primed nubious to make this post?
*Soylent_Green made some points.

Others probably have more inteligent answers to these questions than i.
:grin: 


--------------------
focusing
Flow
The Enneagram


Edited by David_Scape (02/10/03 02:25 PM)


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Anonymous

Re: Blissfully mislead... [Re: nubious]
    #1296732 - 02/10/03 02:28 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I'll agree with you somewhat. While a trip can be very profound at times, recreation is the chief motivation. However, I believe most people realize this, even when they say the only trip for their spirity... after all, religion is its own form of recreation.

Of course, there are a select few who truely do trip for spiritual reasons alone. Shamans and the Native Americans who eat peyote come to mind here.


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OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
Re: Blissfully mislead... [Re: Anonymous]
    #1296748 - 02/10/03 02:31 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

"religion is its own form of recreation"

woah that's brilliant :smile:


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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Anonymous

Re: Blissfully mislead... [Re: nubious]
    #1296822 - 02/10/03 02:52 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I agree, one shouldn't abuse any substance in the name of spirituality. I've fallen into this trap quite a few times with DXM. I think drugs are a great way to catapult you in the right direction, but constant use is like cheating. If you become more dependent on a drug for thinking than your own brain, you're cheating yourself of the learning process.


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Anonymous

Re: Blissfully mislead... [Re: nubious]
    #1296899 - 02/10/03 03:21 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I understand what you are saying. I am one of the rare ones I guess. I never used any psychedelics for anything other than spiritual enlightenment. Currently I use none of them as my path is at that stage. Some day the day might come to re-open that door but for now I am undecided about it.

Be careful you aren't too judgmental about others. We all have faults and are prone to the follies and foibles that man is heir to.

I have also heard people use the term 'research' when talking about drugs. I suppose in a way that is a euphemism too. But I try to allow people to be who they are.

Many people use a variety of things to hide from a reality they cannot cope with. I do not fault them for that either. Reality is harsh and sometimes people need to hide. It is better if they don't hide too long.

Cheers


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OfflineRemy
Bitches Brew
 User Gallery

Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 1,343
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Last seen: 6 years, 1 month
Re: Blissfully mislead... [Re: nubious]
    #1296956 - 02/10/03 03:41 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

I'm sick of seeing sketched out kids who think they know what the hell they're doing. Drugs can open your eyes to new worlds, but the reality is we live in this one.




I agree. If your using drugs to escape reality, you are misleading yourself. In the past I have used psychedelics to open my eyes to this world. I used to do a lot of drugs, but I hardly ever use any now (except for an occasional drink). Psychedelics can bring spiritual enlightenment, but you will always comedown. You can learn a lot from them, but it can be very hard to apply that knowledge after you comedown. Psychedelics can only take you to a certain point, before you don't need them anymore (and they can actually stunt your spiritual development).


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Invisiblebert
bodhi

Registered: 10/14/02
Posts: 2,819
Loc: state
Re: Blissfully mislead... [Re: David_Scape]
    #1296971 - 02/10/03 03:45 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Actually, my post wasn't meant to be overly hostile. I was just feeding off his vibe. I, myself, do not find any sort of spirituality through drug use. In fact, I am not a spiritual person to begin with. I don't believe in God, heaven, hell, reincarnation, mysticism, etc. etc. There are a helluva lot more people out there that are lost in religion/spirituality without doing any drugs in the first place.
The amount of people who abuse drugs while searching for a path to religion, is far less than the rest of the people who just abuse religion.


--------------------
Persons denying the existence of robots may be robots themselves.


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OfflineMetasyn
one

Registered: 09/02/02
Posts: 236
Last seen: 2 years, 7 days
Re: Blissfully mislead... [Re: nubious]
    #1297270 - 02/10/03 05:00 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

All drugs are tools. A hammer can be used to build a house or to smash someone's brains in. Some people use psychedelics as another recreational drug, no more spiritual than alcohol. Others use it to open doors in their mind that could help them realize their spirituality. Some start in one category and move toward the other.

Frequency of use may be correlated to actual spiritual usefullness. Personally, I use psychedelics rarely (perhaps a few times a year), and just as a egoless re-assessment of my situation, a quick realignment of my direction of spiritual realization that I attempt to progess toward in my normal life. Something of this power and magnitude can't be used very effectively all the time. I think if someone trips every week or more they are mis-utilizing them as a spiritual tool and are just tripping for its recreation value. Which is fine, but I don't think such use will confuse you as much as it progresses you towards any genuine spirituality.


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OfflineMurex
Reality Hacker

Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: Blissfully mislead... [Re: Metasyn]
    #1297345 - 02/10/03 05:23 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

All drugs are tools. A hammer can be used to build a house or to smash someone's brains in.

Couldn't of said it better myself.  :grin:


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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OfflineDavid_Scape
Anti Genius
Male

Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 878
Loc: U.S. of muthafuckin A.
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
Re: Blissfully mislead... [Re: bert]
    #1297461 - 02/10/03 06:07 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Im nuts about your avatar!  :grin: :laugh: :tongue: 


--------------------
focusing
Flow
The Enneagram


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Anonymous

Re: Blissfully mislead... [Re: Remy]
    #1298648 - 02/11/03 06:20 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Psychedelics can open your eyes to the beauty of life, the beauty of yourself, and the beauty of this world. Its a shame that everything you learn and gain from it, comes back and bites.. and bites hard. I am coming down from my spirtual plateau that was induced by mushrooms and acid. How do you apply the knowledge you learned from them to the real world? Are you forced to disregard what you learned and continue on the path that the "real" world brings us. Or give up on reality itself and follow the path that your heart and mind truly believe. Psychedelics can make a young kid full of life, grow up really fast and have to make serious internal choices... Using drugs for spiritual reasons is not an easy path. You can't eat some shrooms, become "englightened" and skip merrily along the real world. I agree with you that you always comedown, its what you decide to do after that which puts it all into perspective.


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OfflineSnuffelzFurever
Psychonaut

Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 734
Loc: Miami, florida
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
Re: Blissfully mislead... [Re: nubious]
    #1299324 - 02/11/03 10:11 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

why does it upset you?
also realize you are not these people. maybe you are just inable to interpret their spirituality. maybe they convey it differently than you want them to. doesnt make them not spiritual.

even if they are not spiritual, the moment you harbor anger against them for their "ignorance", and hope for them to change their ways so that your mind can rest, you blind yourself. You become a nazi. You assume ultimate judgement of others actions.

I'm not saying your right or wrong. Just stop for two seconds, and look deep inside for what it is that bothers you about "ignorance" in others


--------------------
"I think it's time we stop
Children, What's the sound,
Everybody look what's going down"


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 11 months, 7 days
Re: Blissfully mislead... [Re: nubious]
    #1299588 - 02/11/03 11:21 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I always viewed drug use with respect to spirituality as a short cut. Like any short cut, sometimes you get to your destination quicker, but there is also a greater chance that you will get lost along the way.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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