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InvisibleMOTH
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Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 23,431
Loc: In the jungle
Re: So I'm moving into a Zen Monastery... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4564486 - 08/21/05 08:59 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
"What do the Zen Master's at the monestary think of psychedelics?"

Very little. In Zen even hallucinations that occur in meditation are considered detritus of the mind. All occult phenomenon and dreams are classed as illusion and distraction as well. I practiced Zen for five years and found it to be a very disciplined, though restrictive, philosophical path. I have recently found Tibetan Buddhism to be more friendly with shamanic thinking as the Tibetan people have a deep shamanic ancestry. I have found a bit there that applies to me.




Yes, Tibetan Buddhism makes a lot of sense to/for me.

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Posts: 10,689
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Re: So I'm moving into a Zen Monastery... [Re: Icelander]
    #4564517 - 08/21/05 09:04 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

I think it might be some sort of venereal disease...or not??


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: So I'm moving into a Zen Monastery... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4564534 - 08/21/05 09:07 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Ouch!

Really though, I'm curious, what is it?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Posts: 10,689
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Re: So I'm moving into a Zen Monastery... [Re: Icelander]
    #4564554 - 08/21/05 09:11 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

I think it is refering to ordination.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: So I'm moving into a Zen Monastery... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4564590 - 08/21/05 09:19 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

WTF is that? :grin:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: So I'm moving into a Zen Monastery... [Re: Icelander]
    #4564647 - 08/21/05 09:28 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

You know...when you are ordained as a monk. They give you your monk robes...maybe a monk hat...then they tell you that you are a monk.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: So I'm moving into a Zen Monastery... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4564688 - 08/21/05 09:34 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Oh, Pomp and ceremony! Do they practice archery, or motorcycle mantainance? That part would be very cool.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: So I'm moving into a Zen Monastery... [Re: Icelander]
    #4564721 - 08/21/05 09:38 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Monks and motorcycles? Their robes would get caught in the wheels. How about a motocycle gang comprised of Zen monks?


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleIcelander
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Posts: 95,368
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Re: So I'm moving into a Zen Monastery... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4564735 - 08/21/05 09:40 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

That wouldn't be pretty.

Hey, maybe they could learn to shoot from motorcycleback. And instead of robes wear short shorts.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (08/21/05 09:42 PM)

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: So I'm moving into a Zen Monastery... [Re: Icelander]
    #4564749 - 08/21/05 09:43 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

...and be female...


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: So I'm moving into a Zen Monastery... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4564757 - 08/21/05 09:44 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Do they accept broads into the Zen orders?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineMighty Bop
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Registered: 06/30/01
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Re: So I'm moving into a Zen Monastery... [Re: Quoiyaien]
    #4564760 - 08/21/05 09:44 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

DO you think you will ever desire to leave the monestary?


--------------------
I got a buddy with United Fruit, get ya started...

Trade List

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: So I'm moving into a Zen Monastery... [Re: Icelander]
    #4564779 - 08/21/05 09:48 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

I do not know, but if they are going to shoot guns from the backs of motorcycles they may as well not be monks...how about if they are strippers...it would make a good TV show.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: So I'm moving into a Zen Monastery... [Re: Mighty Bop]
    #4564884 - 08/21/05 10:07 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Mighty Bop said:
DO you think you will ever desire to leave the monestary?




Do they let you leave?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineMighty Bop
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Re: So I'm moving into a Zen Monastery... [Re: Icelander]
    #4564970 - 08/21/05 10:32 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Surely they can't force you to stay if you want to leave?


--------------------
I got a buddy with United Fruit, get ya started...

Trade List

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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: So I'm moving into a Zen Monastery... [Re: Mighty Bop]
    #4564980 - 08/21/05 10:34 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah, It's not like they do kung-fu and would beat you up if you tried to leave.

I don't think they would call you bad names either.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineQuoiyaien
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Re: So I'm moving into a Zen Monastery... [Re: Icelander]
    #4565334 - 08/22/05 12:02 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

1st: Shiho Transmission is when a monk has realized the Dharma (the teachings) and is able to instruct others. There is a ceremony, great bows, chanting, recitation of vows, etc...

2nd: At the moment I do not wish to leave the monastery...

3rd:  Yes I can leave anytime I want. 

Just a note, I dont actually become a monk right away.  It takes some time, usually about 5 years so I still work my job, have friends, visit parents, go to bars, whatever.  I simply live there.  I just have to sit my required sittings every week, and do chores or "Samu" (working meditation)  Things are pretty lax for associate students.  I will become a general student in about 5 months, but I still wont have taken any vows.  Lots more sittings to attend, and lots more work.  Then a year from there, I can apply to be a probationary formal student.  I study directly under a teacher for a few years, then if I get accepted as a formal student, I can take my vows.  There are a few levels of vows.  First is my laymonks vows which I take when I get my Dharma name (Like Ven. Atra Sinu anagarika)which I can get a year after becoming a formal student.  Then After completing certain requirements I take my postulant monks vows, then novice monks vows, then in a ceremony, I take my final vows, and become fully ordained as a monastic.  All this can take between 5 and 10 years.

After becoming a full monk, I can then recieve transmission to instruct beginners in practice.  Then I recieve Shiho transmission from Roshi, and practice as a Dharma teacher.  Then when I have mastered all the teachings of the roshi, I recieve Inka trasmission, and am then able to teach teachers.  Once I give Shiho transmission to a student, I become a Roshi (ie. Ven. Atra Sinu roshi).  Then many years down the road, I get recognition as a teacher, and become recognozed as Ven. Atra Sinu daiosho.  So lots of work.  About 30 years before I am a Zen Master. 

:heart:Peace:heart:

:hippie:

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: So I'm moving into a Zen Monastery... [Re: Quoiyaien]
    #4565862 - 08/22/05 05:04 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

I am glad you have some detailed knowledge. Your original post made it sound as if you were being very casual about a most serious commitment. Good luck.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: So I'm moving into a Zen Monastery... [Re: Quoiyaien]
    #4565906 - 08/22/05 06:18 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

In thirty years I would like to have a little chat. :thumbup: :heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleEgo Death
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Registered: 04/27/03
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Re: So I'm moving into a Zen Monastery... [Re: Quoiyaien]
    #4566239 - 08/22/05 11:11 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

What does the/any master gain by devoting his life to zen/buddism?

Why devote ones life to zen?

How would your master respond?

A crystal clear mind, perhaps? Or a vague answer like "You can only gain, if first you lose".

P.S - I'm very interested in the subject and certainly not against buddism, these are serious questions!

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