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Offlinetomk
King of OTD

Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 1,559
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 2 years, 9 months
Re: So I'm moving into a Zen Monastery... [Re: Quoiyaien]
    #4592970 - 08/29/05 07:20 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Wow.

Do you get breaks for walking meditations between sitting?

I feel pretty clear after doing breath counting for 30 minutes. I also sometimes do some loving kindness meditations and some contemplations (looking at leaves and stuff). I assume you are doing just sitting, right?


--------------------
"I am eternally free"


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OfflineQuoiyaien
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Registered: 06/08/04
Posts: 1,409
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
Re: So I'm moving into a Zen Monastery... [Re: tomk]
    #4594757 - 08/29/05 07:58 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

tomk said:
Wow.

Do you get breaks for walking meditations between sitting?




Yes.  The sittings always start with 15 minutes of kinhin (walking meditation), then for the duration of the sitting its 30 minutes zazen, 10 minutes (once around the room) kinhin.  The last round of Zazen is uaually cut short to accomodate the time.
Quote:


I feel pretty clear after doing breath counting for 30 minutes.  I also sometimes do some loving kindness meditations and some contemplations (looking at leaves and stuff).  I assume you are doing just sitting, right?




Yes.  It is called Shikan-taza or "intense sitting", or "just sitting."  It the foundation of zen practice.  It is bloody hard though.  I cant even describe the kind of mind required, even concentration is doing something.  We "just sit."  That's it.  During beggining phases of practice, we are taught to follow the breath at the Tanden (hara, dantian, what have you, "3 finger widths below the navel"), then as mindfulness stabilizes, we feel the sensations of the whole body. Then once that stabilizes, we then practice being aware of the space within which we are sitting.  It is quite difficult when you get to this point.  "Feel the space between your toes, feel the air around your body as your body" etc...  There are many other techniques for stabilizeng mindfulness such as koan (those fucked up questions that make no sense), kinhin, samu (caretaking practice), oryoki (eating practice) mantra, chanting, practices are for going to the bathroom (I always picture this as the monks bowing to there shit or something :tongue2: )sleeping and dreaming practices, and probably others that I dont know about.  I have only been instructed as far as being aware of space, samu and kinhin.  The core practice however is shikan-taza.  It allows you to observe any and all grasping you have.  From there the teacher asks you questions to see how your practice is going.  Then can give you specific practices to help release this grasping.  There are other which I will get as my practice matures.  Once I become a formal student, I will get instruction in carrying over mindfullness into the full sleep state.  I will be aware I am sleeping, even when in deep, non dreaming sleep, and when dreaming, they will be as "real" as "reality". 

:heart:Peace:heart:

:hippie:

:japsmile:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 33,859
Re: So I'm moving into a Zen Monastery... [Re: Quoiyaien]
    #4594778 - 08/29/05 08:04 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

this gives new meaning to "Holy shit!"

bravo :japsmile:


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Offlinemikeytwice
Wanderer

Registered: 06/21/05
Posts: 195
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
Re: So I'm moving into a Zen Monastery... [Re: redgreenvines]
    #4595353 - 08/29/05 11:26 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
this gives new meaning to "Holy shit!"





The Tao is there, & in the piss, too!


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Invisibleyousuck
Stranger

Registered: 05/23/05
Posts: 616
Re: So I'm moving into a Zen Monastery... [Re: mikeytwice]
    #4598884 - 08/30/05 09:22 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Will you have to attain a bald spot on the top of your head to progress to the next level? do they wear socks with their sandals? is it like a convent where everyone has to abide by community rules? would they kick you out if you invited a few girls into your room?


on a more serious note, how is it that the zen buddihsts believe that the only way to transcend our mental prision, IE the concious state, is lock the door and throw away the key? What i mean, is that if they dont use psychdelics, our only way out of this prision aside from lucid dreaming, then how do they ever expect to transcend? or is transcendence to them just a greater awareness of our imprisonment? and dont give me that BS that our conscious state isnt a mental prision and that all can be gained with psychdelics can be gained in the concious state.

What is their stance on lucidity btw, do they actively explore other natural states of mind like that, or are they ego maniacs who only believe in the concious state ( like the christians/jews/islams ).


Edited by yousuck (08/30/05 09:29 PM)


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OfflineQuoiyaien
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Re: So I'm moving into a Zen Monastery... [Re: yousuck]
    #4601846 - 08/31/05 08:51 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

In zazen, you can obtain all sorts of states.  The main point is to be aware that you are experiencing anything at all.  However far out it may seem.  I find that after a good 4 hour sitting, my mind has gone through all sorts of things that are pretty crazy.  The point is to just observe and be mindful.  Those are good questions though.  I will bring them up at my next practice interview (daisan).

:heart:Peace:heart:

:hippie:


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Offlineaig
Stranger

Registered: 11/01/04
Posts: 36
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
Re: So I'm moving into a Zen Monastery... [Re: Quoiyaien]
    #4609571 - 09/02/05 02:52 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I envy you that you will go ahead with something that takes so much dedication. The lust of the american way is great and you are stronger than I.


--------------------
The things you own end up owning you.


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Offlineaig
Stranger

Registered: 11/01/04
Posts: 36
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
Re: So I'm moving into a Zen Monastery... [Re: aig]
    #4609574 - 09/02/05 02:53 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

well maybe you are stronger mentally but def. not physically..jk


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The things you own end up owning you.


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OfflinePuppet1
Stranger
Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 62
Last seen: 17 years, 4 months
Re: So I'm moving into a Zen Monastery... [Re: aig]
    #4677477 - 09/18/05 08:57 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

bumping this back up. where did quoiyaien go with yousucks answer?


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OfflineQuoiyaien
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Registered: 06/08/04
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Re: So I'm moving into a Zen Monastery... [Re: yousuck]
    #4681729 - 09/19/05 09:00 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

yousuck said:
Will you have to attain a bald spot on the top of your head to progress to the next level? do they wear socks with their sandals? is it like a convent where everyone has to abide by community rules? would they kick you out if you invited a few girls into your room?


on a more serious note, how is it that the zen buddihsts believe that the only way to transcend our mental prision, IE the concious state, is lock the door and throw away the key? What i mean, is that if they dont use psychdelics, our only way out of this prision aside from lucid dreaming, then how do they ever expect to transcend? or is transcendence to them just a greater awareness of our imprisonment? and dont give me that BS that our conscious state isnt a mental prision and that all can be gained with psychdelics can be gained in the concious state.

What is their stance on lucidity btw, do they actively explore other natural states of mind like that, or are they ego maniacs who only believe in the concious state ( like the christians/jews/islams ).




It is not the content that matters.  Like the glass to the water, or the room to the glass... etc etc, everything arises within something else.  By you saying that you need psychedelics to transcend, you have attached a need to using them.  Zen is a practice.  It is not a belief, a way of life, a philosophy or a religion.  It is something you do.  Allowing whatever arises to arise, dwell and decay without attachment.  In the later stages of practice, dreaming gets covered.  I have posted some info above that goes into this in more detail.  I hope this answers your question.  If not, ask some more, I love challenges :laugh: 

:heart:Peace:heart:

:hippie:


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Offlineqhr0me
o = oo
Registered: 09/16/05
Posts: 203
Loc: sun diego, ca
Last seen: 15 years, 4 months
Re: So I'm moving into a Zen Monastery... [Re: Quoiyaien]
    #4685836 - 09/20/05 08:16 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

30 years and you become a zen master, eh?  is that a money back guarantee deal?-)  i'm more of a rinzai zen fan, you know, try to sweat under my armpits while pondering that buddha is a shitstick, slap myself silly while trying to hear the sound of one hand clapping, just moo-ing in general... :smile:

soto zen is fun too, but too much practice and still no guarantees, really.  i know the saying goes there's no zen without zazen, but you can sit for 30 kalpas and learn all the suttas by heart and not get any closer to seeing your true nature (and beholding the (no)mind) than the butcher who spends a lifetime slicing meat.

well, i wish you the best of luck on the way, don't speed while driving the great vehicle!  i go wash my food bowl now :smile:


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InvisibleMoonshoe
Blue Mantis
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Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
Re: So I'm moving into a Zen Monastery... [Re: Quoiyaien]
    #4686921 - 09/21/05 02:08 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

awesome. just awesome.

proceed with fearlessness and joy. its the warriors way. youve made your decision, there is nothing left to fear or regret. Some day i may follow in your footsteps. I have always planned to move to a zen monastary once im done my traveling abroad, which will still be at least 5 more years. Thats the plan anyways, hopefully i wont fall in love or get addicted to crack or anything before then...


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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OfflineQuoiyaien
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Re: So I'm moving into a Zen Monastery... [Re: Moonshoe]
    #4926793 - 11/13/05 04:39 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Gassho all,

So the first phase of my residency is taking place this week.  I will live there for 3 days to get an idea of how things work.  After that, I go for a month, then we'll see.  I am getting very excited!

:heart:Peace:heart:

:japsmile:


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