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Christians actually have no basis in reality.
    #24116649 -

Christians believe in thought-forms that are tied to literal non-existence. they believe a "God" runs everything in the universe, and from the foundation of their beliefs, they act.

their actions, logic, and propensities, are based around a literal non-being; from which one can only logically conclude that their actions, logic, and propensities (like the propensity to prayer, for example), come from nothingness.

and logic needs to be fielded to have any value.

so in the case of christianity, it's values are based on destroying logic into nothingness.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24116651 -

Muslims are worse. Go pick on them...if you got the balls, of course


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.

It's just a shot away..

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: Bill_Oreilly] * 1
    #24116664 -

Reductionism is even worse, go pick on them.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

:nyan: LGBT - Love God Before Tradition :nyan:

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24116667 -

Alan Watts - Jesus and His Religion


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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: Asante]
    #24116670 -

Picking on them, when really there is no other.  Who then is picking on who?


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps or give me Death caps.

Edited by The Blind Ass (02/24/17 04:56 PM)

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: Asante]
    #24116673 -

Asante said:
Reductionism is even worse, go pick on them.



Lol


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.

It's just a shot away..

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
    #24116676 -

Bill_Oreilly said:
Muslims are worse. Go pick on them...if you got the balls, of course


there are already several threads for your viewing pleasure set on that course. you go there.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #24116688 -

Link?


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.

It's just a shot away..

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #24116692 -

hardcore Christians enjoy it, they get satisfaction out of prayer. they are like the most hardcore roleplayers, RP'ing their whole life around the lore of Christianity. Spiritual people are similar, they're all spiritual and stuff, because they like it, whether they realize that or not, its a big source of their satisfaction and enjoyment which all people need in some form. but I think that its not a great one, there are way better - more impressive and worthwhile ways to get satisfaction and enjoyment in life


--------------------
Trees is dead, this is his mum posting



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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24116694 -

Jesus was a Jew, OP is anti-Semitic. :cookiemonster:

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: trees] * 1
    #24116696 -

trees said:
hardcore Christians enjoy it, they get satisfaction out of prayer. they are like the most hardcore roleplayers, RP'ing their whole life around the lore of Christianity. Spiritual people are similar, they're all spiritual and stuff, because they like it, whether they realize that or not, its a big source of their satisfaction and enjoyment which all people need in some form. but I think that its not a great one, there are way better - more impressive and worthwhile ways to get satisfaction and enjoyment in life



Religion is a drug


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.

It's just a shot away..

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: Bill_Oreilly] * 1
    #24116697 -

Bill_Oreilly said:
Muslims are worse. Go pick on them...if you got the balls, of course


Islam is effectively an extension of Christianity,
which is effectively an extension of Judaism
picking on anything further up the chain picks on Islam as well

Islam basically does to Christianity,
what Christianity did to Judaism,
which is to take a big chunk of the core beliefs
then proclaim to have the most up-to-date version
of what God wants

criticizing the literal belief of God in one tradition
automatically criticizes the literal belief of YHWH or Allah in the other

All three comprise the Abrahamic religions

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: Tantrika]
    #24116701 -

Tantrika said:
Bill_Oreilly said:
Muslims are worse. Go pick on them...if you got the balls, of course


Islam is effectively an extension of Christianity,
which is effectively an extension of Judaism
picking on anything further up the chain picks on Islam as well

Islam basically does to Christianity,
what Christianity did to Judaism,
which is to take a big chunk of the core beliefs
then proclaim to have the most up-to-date version
of what God wants

criticizing the literal belief of God in one tradition
automatically criticizes the literal belief of YHWH or Allah in the other

All three comprise the Abrahamic religions



Christains did not do 911 though


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.

It's just a shot away..

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24116708 -

we're not taking about 9/11. we're taking about

akira_akuma said:
Christians believe in thought-forms that are tied to literal non-existence. they believe a "God" runs everything in the universe, and from the foundation of their beliefs, they act.

their actions, logic, and propensities, are based around a literal non-being; from which one can only logically conclude that their actions, logic, and propensities (like the propensity to prayer, for example), come from nothingness.

and logic needs to be fielded to have any value.

so in the case of christianity, it's values are based on destroying logic into nothingness.


qman said:
Jesus was a Jew, OP is anti-Semitic. :cookiemonster:


Christians believe he eschewed Judaistic law and that's why there is the new testament and a Christianity.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24116717 -

Its their drug :shrug:

As long as its not hurting anyone then let them be dumb

Whats it mattee to you? You are like the government who is trying to take away peoples rights


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.

It's just a shot away..

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
    #24116718 -

did i say i want to take away their rights or their drug? don't be intellectually dishonest.
here's your link.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24116706#24116706

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24116724 -

True true and thank you


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.

It's just a shot away..

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: PatrickKn] * 1
    #24116728 -

PatrickKn said:
Alan Watts - Jesus and His Religion





Around 25 minutes in is a good starting point if anyone is interested. Here are some extracts if you'd prefer to read. I think it's an interesting conversation or lecture on the subject.

Alan Watts said:
So obviously an omnipotent and omniscient man would not really be a man. So even if you take the very orthodox Catholic doctrine of the nature of Christ, that he was both true God and true Man, you must say that for true God to be united with true Man, true God has to make a voluntary renunciation – for the time-being – of omniscience and omnipotence… and omnipresence for that matter. Now therefore if Jesus were to come right out and say “I am the son of God” that’s like saying “I’m the boss’s son,” or “I AM the boss,” and everybody immediately says that is blasphemy. That is subversion. That is trying to introduce Democracy into the Kingdom of Heaven. That is –– you are a usurper of the throne. No man has seen God.

Now, Jesus in his exoteric teaching – as recorded in the Synoptic Gospels – was pretty cagey about this. He didn’t come right out there and say “I and the Father are one.” Instead he identified himself with the Messiah described in the second part of the prophet Isaiah, “the suffering servant who was despised and rejected by men.” And this man is the non-political Messiah, in other words. It was convenient to make that identification even though it would get him into trouble.
But to his elect disciples as recorded in Saint John, he came right out “Before Abraham was, I am.” “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” “I am the resurrection and the life.” “I am the living bread that comes down from Heaven.” “I and the Father are one, and he who has seen me has seen the Father.” And there can be no mistaking that language.

So the Jews found out and they put him to death – or had him put to death – for blasphemy. This is no cause for any special antagonism toward the Jews. We would do exactly the same thing. It’s always done. It happened to one of the great Sufi mystics in Persia who had the same experience. Now, what happened? The Apostles didn’t quite get the point. They were awed by the miracles of Jesus. They worshipped him as people do worship gurus, and as you know to what lengths that can go if you’ve been around guru-land. And so the Christians said “Okay, okay: Jesus of Nazareth was the son of God but let it stop right there! Nobody else.” So what happened was that Jesus was pedestalized. He was put in a position that was safely upstairs so that his troublesome experience of cosmic consciousness would not come and cause other people to be a nuisance. And those who have had this experience and expressed it during those times when the church had political power were almost invariably persecuted. Giordano Bruno was burnt at the stake. John Scotus Eriugena was excommunicated. Meister Eckhardt’s theses were condemned. And so on, and so on. A few mystics got away with it because they used cautious language.

But you see what happens. If you pedestalize Jesus you strangle the Gospel at birth. And it has been the tradition in both the Catholic Church and in Protestantism to pass off what I will call an emasculated Gospel. Gospel means “good news,” and I cannot for the life of me think what is the good news about the Gospel as ordinarily handed down. Because, look here – here is the revelation of God in Christ, in Jesus, and we are supposed to follow his life and example without having the unique advantage of being the boss’s son. Now, the tradition – both Catholic and Protestant Fundamentalist – represents Jesus to us as a freak! Born of a virgin, knowing he is the son of God, having the power of miracles, knowing that basically it’s impossible to kill him, that he’s going to rise again in the end. And we are asked to take up our cross and follow him when we don’t know that about ourselves at all! So what happens is this: we are delivered, therefore, a Gospel which is in fact an impossible religion. It’s impossible to follow the Way of Christ. Alright. Many a Christian has admitted it. “I am a miserable sinner. I fall far short of the example of Christ.” But do you realize the more you say that the better you are? Because what happened was that Christianity institutionalized guilt as a virtue. (enthusiastic applause) You see, you can never come up to it. Never. And therefore you will always be aware of your shortcomings, and so the more shortcomings you feel the more – in other words – you are aware of the vast abyss between Christ and yourself.




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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: trees]
    #24116732 -

trees said:
hardcore Christians enjoy it, they get satisfaction out of prayer. they are like the most hardcore roleplayers, RP'ing their whole life around the lore of Christianity. Spiritual people are similar, they're all spiritual and stuff, because they like it, whether they realize that or not, its a big source of their satisfaction and enjoyment which all people need in some form. but I think that its not a great one, there are way better - more impressive and worthwhile ways to get satisfaction and enjoyment in life


the spiritual can include a belief that their life has meaning- i think that's fair to have. it doesn't necessarily include the literal belief in outside forces that don't exist.

but yeah, you're right. the ultimate LARPers.

and they enjoy it. but they also make sure that they control everything they can- like in most religions; and through political means, they excoriate the propensity for the enjoyment of life, for most people whom aren't Christian, through moral-laws...they are also usually extremely bigoted against any view that would entail that they relinquish any control for their populace and/or political/business entities.

they also lie.

PS: Patrick, that's all nice and stuff...but people are dead set on their beliefs, and the majority of christians think that gnostic readings are heretical.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24116735 -

akira_akuma said:
PS: Patrick, that's all nice and stuff...but people are dead set on their beliefs, and the majority of christians think that gnostic readings are heretical.


Is that not what's being discussed?

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24116736 -

a lot of us believe in something. I think Christians choose to believe in God because its the closest they can get to "something to define what they are feeling"

So even though there may not be a God(in the Christian sense)..these Christians are feeling SOMETHING and that something is what they choose to call "God"


its not that hard to understand, akira


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.

It's just a shot away..

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: Asante]
    #24116747 -

Asante said:
Reductionism is even worse, go pick on them.



--------------------

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: Bill_Oreilly] * 1
    #24116752 -

Bill_Oreilly said:
Tantrika said:
Bill_Oreilly said:
Muslims are worse. Go pick on them...if you got the balls, of course


Islam is effectively an extension of Christianity,
which is effectively an extension of Judaism
picking on anything further up the chain picks on Islam as well

Islam basically does to Christianity,
what Christianity did to Judaism,
which is to take a big chunk of the core beliefs
then proclaim to have the most up-to-date version
of what God wants

criticizing the literal belief of God in one tradition
automatically criticizes the literal belief of YHWH or Allah in the other

All three comprise the Abrahamic religions



Christains did not do 911 though


True,
but the Holy Roman Empire and Poland
did 9/12
to stop Islam from spreading through Europe

Quote:
When at the end of the 17th century the Ottoman Empire had reached its greatest extent, the Turks under Grand Vizier Kara Mustafa Pasha tried to capture the imperial city of Vienna and thereby throw open the gateway to Central Europe. In 1683 he laid siege to the fortress with 140,000 troops, while there were only 11,000 men available for the city defense. In the following 60-days lasting siege the Turks built mines below the city walls, which they intended to bring down with explosive charges. These were on the verge of detonating, when on 11 September the Polish-German relief force arrived, with troops from the Holy Roman Empire (Austria, Bavaria, Franconia, Saxony, Swabia) and the Republic of Venice, under the leadership of Poland. The tide of battle was turned on 12 September, when the Polish King John III. Sobieski led his elite troops of the Winged Hussars (Husaria) down the Kahlenberg in the largest cavalry charge in history, battering the Ottoman elite of the Sipahi and Janissaries and entering the enemy camp.




:headbanger:

though historical events are, notably,
influential upon and influenced by
contemporary philosophical views
the reality is they trace through the same belief structures

Not passing judgement on the actions of adherents
or necessarily saying all believers worship equally
just recognizing the beliefs that they hold

"You shall have no other gods before Me. " -- Exodus 20:3
"la ilaha illa'llah" (There is no God but God) -- throughout the Quran

:fasted:

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #24116785 -

specialpeopleclub said:
Asante said:
Reductionism is even worse, go pick on them.



Christians can apparently feign niceness. it's just that

akira_akuma said:
Christians believe in thought-forms that are tied to literal non-existence. they believe a "God" runs everything in the universe, and from the foundation of their beliefs, they act.

their actions, logic, and propensities, are based around a literal non-being; from which one can only logically conclude that their actions, logic, and propensities (like the propensity to prayer, for example), come from nothingness.

and logic needs to be fielded to have any value.

so in the case of christianity, it's values are based on destroying logic into nothingness.



please keep on topic.

Bill_Oreilly said:
its not that hard to understand, akira


it's also not that hard to read the OP more thoroughly.

this thread isn't about justifying belief systems. it's about how christians base their logic and reasoning on ineffable nothingness.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: PatrickKn]
    #24116789 -

PatrickKn said:
akira_akuma said:
PS: Patrick, that's all nice and stuff...but people are dead set on their beliefs, and the majority of christians think that gnostic readings are heretical.


Is that not what's being discussed?


you're not de-railing the thread. :shrug:

what you read was simply my response.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24116892 -

The beautiful thing about Christianity is you could be a son or daughter of the most high and not even know it. Even on your death bed (ie: thief on the cross) the window for redemption is possible.

Oh, and Pope Francis is a fraud.


--------------------
:thumbup: :thumbdown:

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: Great Scott]
    #24116899 -

fair enough.

:shrug:

but let it be known: proponents of the shroomery likes the fact that christians believe in thought-forms that are tied to literal non-existence. and that they believe a "God" runs everything in the universe, and from the foundation of their beliefs, they act.

and that their actions, logic, and propensities, are based around a literal non-being; from which one can only logically conclude that their actions, logic, and propensities (like the propensity to prayer, for example), come from nothingness.

(and logic needs to be fielded to have any value.)

and that the fact is, in the case of christianity, it's values are based on destroying logic into nothingness.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24116905 -

Fair enough.

Quote:
Christians believe in thought-forms that are tied to literal non-existence.


On this point specifically, I'm curious what your thoughts or philosophies are on non-existence. I don't find non-existence to be a deal breaker as far as philosophical principals go. Language/music and the value of money are examples of thought-forms that manifest from non-existence after all. Through the space between our collective thoughts, actions happen. And I'm sure you have some ideas on the idea that mental constructs manifest themselves as reality.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: PatrickKn]
    #24116934 -

yes, manifest, at the very least, as mind-stuff, which in turn forms into material reality. material reality needs a firm basis in facts, which are couched in logic, that logic which needs a firm basis in reality, reality defined as things that actually exists.

Christians form their opinions, desires, and thoughts on non-existent things, such as the notion of God, which they then derive their nonsensical logic, which is based on said notions.

essentially, the notional motives of christians have an inherent vice, and that is dangerous.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24117005 -

By that, are you saying that their philosophy self-destructs because it has no foundation in reality? What are some examples so that I can fully understand what you're getting at more specifically if you don't mind me asking?

It could be argued that the teachings of the bible (and by extension most religious philosophies) have a foundation in reality, but that the interpretation of past events were misinformed. That in itself doesn't make it a nonsensical logic unless people go out of their way to deconstruct established logic despite knowing better. That's not necessarily a fault of the whole religion, but of certain adherents.

If we look at Christianity from a mythological view point, I still wouldn't say that it has no basis in reality. Myth isn't concerned with the meat of the story, but of the meaning after all. And it would be hard for me to argue that there is no meaning in Christianity, because there certainly is - even if it's lost on some of it's followers. The same is true with most religions, but I could extend that to say it's true with other philosophies as well. A self described agnostic or atheist might cite science as a better way to live by, but not understand the first thing about it or that using science as a counter-point to religion itself misses the point of both. 

I'm not trying to defend religious fundamentalism necessarily, but I think the wrongs of organized religion aren't because they are founded upon concepts that don't exist in material reality. That in and of itself doesn't make the bulk of it faulty logic by default.

Edited by PatrickKn (02/24/17 07:00 PM)

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: PatrickKn]
    #24117027 -

Our source of awareness is prior to picking and choosing.
To say Christians have no basis in reality is laughable.
Wash away that discriminating shadow :lol:


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps or give me Death caps.

Edited by The Blind Ass (02/24/17 07:07 PM)

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #24117095 -

Quote:
By that, are you saying that their philosophy self-destructs because it has no foundation in reality?


no, i'm saying that due to their beliefs, their reasoning is flawed and can do nothing but distort and destroy the very essence of logic and rationality, when it comes to the dogmatic areas of their religious thought.

if they resort to a non-christian logic to use in a philosophical premise, they can avoid this happenstance, and quite a bit of the christian doctrine, being that it is sustained in a worldly manner (ie, it is brought to light in the same manner as anything else, from the mind), there is no option but to express a mind that is couched in reality, and hence, logic. Christians are not impervious logic...in fact, they have to use logic, in order to rationalize their views, and impose them on the world- even on a personal level.

but when the christian dogma is highlighted, logic is eventually lost, because their reasoning is based on a notion that isn't actually real. ie, homosexuality is a sin; for one example, there is this instance; and in this instance there is no logical conclusion, because it follows from a premise that is not founded in reason, logic, sense, or rationality. :shrug:

so when you get to the basic dogma of the Christian religion, logic breaks down, and it goes either into infinite regress, or circular reasoning, in order to justify itself.

and religion is a form of control, similarly to any other ideology. when christians have the ability to control (by law, or by force) it is always going to lead to an instance where non-christians have to pay the price- and it is never logical, in these instances. it's certainly not in keeping with any constitutional premise, i might add.

Quote:
A self described agnostic or atheist might cite science as a better way to live by, but not understand the first thing about it or that using science as a counter-point to religion itself misses the point of both. 


any one of those belief systems also adhere to dogma (no matter what an atheist says...because an atheist will also go down the road of the illogical impossibility, ie, "i don't have a dogma" is simply part of their dogma. and the rest of their dogma is "i know God doesn't exist". no, they don't. they obviously don't. but i digress), dogma never affords logic at it's most basic bedrock premise, it can only add logic through inference. anyone can do that. people have argued for the freakin' "rationale" of pedophilia, for example (ever seen a priest try weasel out of Why said priest molested a child? there is always a reason...but the reason is never rational- obviously. the same thing happens with any kind of dogma...it's given logical inference, so as to give the appearance of validity...hence why dogmatic thought is so insidious. and drastically idiotic.).

Quote:
I'm not trying to defend religious fundamentalism necessarily, but I think the wrongs of organized religion aren't because they are founded upon concepts that don't exist in material reality. That in and of itself doesn't make the bulk of it faulty logic by default.


it's not so much the bulk of either the christian canon, or preeminent christian thinkers, or even ordinary people, whom are christian, using logic, where logic can be ascertained as rational.

it's the main contentions of it's dogma which fall prey to the inability to be rational.

and thus, it's dangerous if people believe their dogma so much so, that they can't accept when it's been proven wrong, so they fight to death with their opponents. if they can foresee an actual win. :shrug: otherwise, it's misgivings pervade through politics.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24117253 -

There were multiple historians that lived in the relative time and place "Jesus" was supposed to live in and they never wrote a word about anyone healing any damned lepers.


--------------------
Maiden, Mother, and Crone.

You are Me and I am You.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: SARAtonin]
    #24117327 -

people like to point to Josephus or Tacitus...

this is literally the best evidence of "Jesus".

"Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judæa..."

an off-hand account of a supposed figure.

a figure "from whom the name had its origin"...he declares that this person suffered, and then a "most mischievous superstition" was "checked for the moment", before it "broke out again".

ie, that people believed some whacky things about Jesus...either none of these people knew how to write at all, or they just decided not to bother with writing anything about Jesus; seeing as all of the accounts of Jesus are ascribed to scribes; even "the apostles' gospels" were made after the fact, i think 100 years, or thereabouts.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2014/12/18/did-historical-jesus-exist-the-traditional-evidence-doesnt-hold-up/?utm_term=.1f90de7dc7c8
There are no existing eyewitness or contemporary accounts of Jesus. All we have are later descriptions of Jesus’ life events by non-eyewitnesses, most of whom are obviously biased. Little can be gleaned from the few non-Biblical and non-Christian sources, with only Roman scholar Josephus and historian Tacitus having any reasonable claim to be writing about Jesus within 100 years of his life. And even those sparse accounts are shrouded in controversy, with disagreements over what parts have obviously been changed by Christian scribes (the manuscripts were preserved by Christians), the fact that both these authors were born after Jesus died (they would thus have probably received this information from Christians), and the oddity that centuries go by before Christian apologists start referencing them.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24117527 -

Guilt comes from within.  No one can make you feel guilty but you.  Shame comes from without.  They are separate yet similar emotions.

Regardless of what you believe regarding the existence of God - which you form your argument from the non-existence of and therefor derive your entire position, the reality of the world we live in is one in which the people in control will kill you for challenging their position of authority over you.  Christ stood against inane sacrifices including ritual child sacrifice of babies in the form of circumcision and suggested we face a battle against these principalities (aka royal bloodlines).  There is much truth there. 

Regardless of all of that, atheism has the lowest birth rates and will die out of existence.  You can think it is logical to believe no God exists, but others would think it is illogical to believe such a thing.  Appeal to authority aside, I've known physics professors who believe both in the big bang and God.  You are free to believe what you wish.

:peace:

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: MrBlueYoMind]
    #24117619 -

MrBlueYoMind said:
Guilt comes from within.  No one can make you feel guilty but you.  Shame comes from without.  They are separate yet similar emotions.

Regardless of what you believe regarding the existence of God - which you form your argument from the non-existence of and therefor derive your entire position, the reality of the world we live in is one in which the people in control will kill you for challenging their position of authority over you.  Christ stood against inane sacrifices including ritual child sacrifice of babies in the form of circumcision and suggested we face a battle against these principalities (aka royal bloodlines).  There is much truth there.


oh sure, mayhaps. maybe he was as real person, there just isn't a whole lot of honesty, and there is more wishful thinking, in Jesus/Biblical historicism...if Jesus WAS real, it's doubtful he preformed miracles, as someone would have surely written about it at the time of it's occurring, and not nearly a century later.

i'd believe the story of Jesus sans the miracles, if there was more evidence to support it.

there's nothing wrong with the lore. it's how the lore is understood that's problematic.

Quote:
Regardless of all of that, atheism has the lowest birth rates and will die out of existence.  You can think it is logical to believe no God exists, but others would think it is illogical to believe such a thing.  Appeal to authority aside, I've known physics professors who believe both in the big bang and God.  You are free to believe what you wish.

:peace:


i didn't say i think "no God" exists. i just don't believe in the Christian God. i believe in cosmic forces. :shrug: so don't assume things, please.

but that's besides the point: the point is that people trying to derive logical reasoning from a God of the Gaps, such as the christian God, amounts to trying to create a fantasy, in which one can justify the absurd belief that "God made everything perfect" - wrong. no he obviously didn't. problem of evil? stillbirth? genetic diseases?

not perfect.

"God hates fags".

WRONG. stupid, in fact. and i'd wager anyone who thinks that way would try their damnedest, and with as much logic that they could muster (little), to try and justify that believe, and then tell you it's only cause it's natural...then ignore the many species of animal that fuck male or females indiscriminately. :shrug: see this is what i'm talking about. don't get it twisted now.

SyzygisticSoul said:
Akira_Akma is a pile of shit rested on a dictionary!
Your beliefs don't matter otherwise


you really should tone down the flaming.

i know this topic can be hackle raising, but, if i'm gonna make a thread entailing the fact that Christians mostly argue from a place of ignorance, you might want to come with something a little more fruitful than that tomfoolery you just posted, you know...to prove me wrong, instead of giving evidence to the contrary.

PS: you should diss dictionaries...after all God (the Logos) is "the Word Made Flesh" afterall :wink: try using that headmeat before you post.

Edited by akira_akuma (02/24/17 11:48 PM)

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #24117622 -

akira_akuma said:
people like to point to Josephus or Tacitus...




Seems like most Christian apologists quote Josephus, but I didn't think he was considered a good source.


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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: Lucis]
    #24117623 -

no, he wasn't. Tacitus is the best christian scholars have...and it's frankly not enough to prove he is what it says in the Bible...if he existed at all.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24117625 -

What is the point of all this akira? I am sincerely curious.


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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #24117627 -

The Blind Ass said:
What is the point of all this akira? I am sincerely curious.



This.


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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: Lucis]
    #24117641 -

i wanted to share my opinion, and have a discussion, about the rationale people use to impart their beliefs on the world, and in a lot of instances, force their opinions down people's throats, based on ridiculous notions that have no logical backing, and that are only based on fairy tales and hokum. such as "God is in control!"

no, that isn't true at all.

but i'd like to discuss why people think they can construe that as logical, based on the fact that they believe in it so strongly. i don't think christians should do that; nor do i think they should be running a free country; too risky.

things like the pervading notion that "Sex is a mortal sin", for one example, out of many.

things like that ^ are untenable...yet christians always want to tout that their reasoning for believing such things, are based in logic and rationality, when it's bereft of it entirely. the logic breaks down completely. same goes for the notion that "the christan God is the true God".

yeah, people say these things, and try to argue that it's true, when there is literally and absolutely no way of that being true, and then use that belief to try and justify their actions, and instincts about the world. the notion is a lie, a convenient lie to try and control people. that's all it is.

christians try to rationalize their bigotry and their fears about their moral quandaries, with logic, logic which has no place in their beliefs, because their beliefs are not rational.

i don't think it's smart to allow a political force that thinks the crazy things christians believe to try and settle anything with logic, regarding those beliefs, because those beliefs are inherently unsound to begin with, and logic doesn't fit into them; regardless how hard one tries to make their beliefs make sense, they just don't. i don't want them running the country, nor do i want their propaganda-laden political movements to seduce young people into losing their rational mind.

in a sense, christianity poisons the rational minds logic with unsound beliefs, which essentially make christians unable to logical rule their mind, and thus unable to make a logical stance, or take logical station, for anyone in anyway, within any kind of command structure, let alone, any kind of debate.

as soon as their beliefs enter the debate it becomes quite obvious that they are not rational...i fear, that it goes so far as to completely taint the minds logical faculties, if one holds the beliefs that christians tend to hold, within the majority of the religion.

Edited by akira_akuma (02/25/17 12:18 AM)

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. *DELETED* [Re: Lucis] * 1
    #24117644 -

Post deleted by Fennario

Reason for deletion: Ash nazg durbatulûk, ash nazg gimbatul, Ash nazg thrakatulûk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul.



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Edited by Lucis (02/25/17 12:16 AM)

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: Lucis]
    #24117765 -

He maybe has never known a true christian - or noticed them, that must be why. Their meek and not squeaky wheels.

I cannot blame him, they are rare indeed.  But if or when you do befriend someone who is you'll forever be happier, for they are a friend truly.

There is a fallacy in your argument that I cannot mutter in a word I know, but its there.  The expressed hostility towards Christians you display needs to be checked with remembering that it is someone aka people  who happen through birth, or fortuitous circumstances in life to practice christs teaching - as they know it best as was written long ago and largely obscured and then kept in ritual and ceremony & word and translated & expressed by an organized clergy within organized places on earth and their facilities and structures - which happens to be the outer way...there is also a more direct way , which is to become it or stop not being it way , which is mainly left to the monks who stay private and less often clergy and lay people too -  that part happens to be the inner way.

For some reason you don't fault the human condition, the mind, or the individual- or more accuratly -  ignorance itself

But you do fault an entire religion - which is a construct of man which serves to keep alive the Mystic in our species because of their knowing - often it is abused and serves to keep alive the very things which the mystic teaches from the universal heart and mind of man.
  Those abuses or "wrongs" you see in religion Its not exclusive to religion, its a part of human nature, so regardless if there is religion or no religion the vast majority of people for the time being will display the things you hate and dislike and find fault with in whatever form is set for them to cloth it within -  be it Christianity, buddhism, atheism, any intellectual construct there is will be used by the man when he is asleep to his true nature.


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Give me Liberty caps or give me Death caps.

Edited by The Blind Ass (02/25/17 02:00 AM)

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. *DELETED* [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #24117770 -

Post deleted by trendal

Reason for deletion: Flames



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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: SyzygisticSoul]
    #24117771 -

dude, learn to respect other people's opinions, or, if at the very least, bring a counter-argument to the fore.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24117785 -

Your a puppet, I really don't have to


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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: SyzygisticSoul]
    #24117804 -

puppet? of Satan?

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24117809 -

Just an idiot, hope that shows up in your dictionary


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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24117828 -

Who says this op? You or him?..


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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: zZZz]
    #24117843 -

Mormons,scientology,Christian scientists and people like that are alot crazier


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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: SyzygisticSoul]
    #24117845 -

SyzygisticSoul said:
Just an idiot, hope that shows up in your dictionary


and now we see the majestic Lummox in his natural butthurt....

could you quit de-railing my thread and flaming. it's getting old.

Seriously_trippin said:
Mormons,scientology,Christian scientists and people like that are alot crazier


they all use logic for things that aren't rational.

it's like if i tried to logically explain to you how crystals make people lucky, through energy fields.

it's just not going to work.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24117953 -

So basically everyone who argues that Islam is a bunk culture thinks Christianity is totally fine.

Wanna know how the middle east came to suck so bad?


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ShadeOfDeepPurple said: I guess you don't get shamanism yet by the very fact that you describe a psychedelic as Mexican.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: Bozko]
    #24117960 -

wtf are you talking about?

both Islam and Christianity promote illogical ideas. gays are a sin, and women get stoned. and then some...all retarded notions.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24117976 -

Yes Akira, ask ME what I'm talking about. :lol:


It is ironic that all these "west is best" types don't realize we got to where we are through science and culture, not religion. They claim to hate islam because it is anti-gay or anti-women, then immediately start defending their own right to those sorts of beliefs.


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ShadeOfDeepPurple said: I guess you don't get shamanism yet by the very fact that you describe a psychedelic as Mexican.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24117980 -

akira_akuma said:
wtf are you talking about?

both Islam and Christianity promote illogical ideas. gays are a sin, and women get stoned. and then some...all retarded notions.


Guys an idiot, you'd have better luck arguing with a brick wall or sack of rocks


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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: SyzygisticSoul]
    #24117981 -

I don't think he noticed I basically agree with him.


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ShadeOfDeepPurple said: I guess you don't get shamanism yet by the very fact that you describe a psychedelic as Mexican.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: Bozko] * 1
    #24117983 -

bwahahaha, yeah, i was juggling eating, drinking, and rageposting on a smartphone, whoops!

i see what you're getting at.

and yes...it's fucking ironic. i have been seeing an irony overload, recently. it's interesting!

:yesnod:

people seem to be:

just taking a side (which side has grown stronger, being the easier choice)
talking either out of their ass, or just as rapidly and with as little thought, as possible.
and trying to propagate their ideologies. the chain is breaking!

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24117986 -

akira_akuma said:
bwahahaha, yeah, i was juggling eating, drinking, and rageposting on a smartphone, whoops!

i see what you're getting at.

and yes...it's fucking ironic. i have been seeing an irony overload, recently. it's interesting!

:yesnod:

people seem to be:

just taking a side (which side has grown stronger, being the easier choice)
talking either out of their ass, or just as rapidly and with as little thought, as possible.
and trying to propagate their ideologies. the chain is breaking!



:dumbass: dumbass


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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #24118015 -

At one point I believed that an angel had visited Earth before me and that this was the source of Christianity. Then I read the Bible. Nothing that Jesus supposedly said has anything to do with the truth of human life. Whoever he was (he had to exist in some form, even if he was a group of people writing a legend), his message was the suppression of what makes this life worth living as a means to obtain an afterlife awarded by an egomaniacal god who hates his own creation. This is obviously not something I can get behind.

However, I do believe the universe is a created system. Life is too beautiful to have arisen out of random chance. The way I see it, there has to be a purpose and therefore an intelligence behind it, although this intelligence is out of the reach of ordinary humans and even angels. We can't fathom what the universe is really all about. As Terence said, it's not only stranger than we suppose, it's stranger than we can suppose. It certainly has nothing to do with the petty rules and regulations and ego battles of the patriarchy.

Basically, the title of this thread is spot on but the OP doesn't go to the heart of the matter. We can't prove or disprove the existence of a deity. We can, however, clearly demonstrate using scientific facts and common sense that the teachings of Christianity are completely wrong. Christians tend to ignore all the problems with their teachings and gloss it all over with a feel-good message of peace and love. Let's remind them what's actually in the book that defines their religion and therefore how small-minded the writers were, especially considering that they presumed to speak for the creator of an immensely intricate, elegant and pleasurable universe.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24118131 -

Akira, when 3 billion christians say Jesus is a thing, he becomes a thing, retroactively, even if he weren't originally.


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Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

:nyan: LGBT - Love God Before Tradition :nyan:

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: Asante] * 1
    #24118148 -

No religion is based on reality. They adapted to pagan belief so they could swallow the pill more easily. They invented prophets to do as if people were actually here to represent God. They all used the december 21st to december 25 as the birth of the prophet because it's the day the sun starts returning for longer period of time.

It's all bullshit, from the start right down to the end.

Kudos to those who wrote the book. Incredible job. Every sentence is vague enough to be interpreted any which way you want to see it. Whoever wrote it is in the DaVinci scale of intelligence.


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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: Asante] * 1
    #24118161 -

Patlal, what if all religions are based on reality and you are shut out of it, unable to reach in? :omgz:




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Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

:nyan: LGBT - Love God Before Tradition :nyan:

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: Asante]
    #24118167 -

Asante said:
Patlal, what if all religions are based on reality and you are shut out of it, unable to reach in? :omgz:

Lay off the drugs for a while.


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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: Patlal]
    #24118470 -

Asante said:
Akira, when 3 billion christians say Jesus is a thing, he becomes a thing, retroactively, even if he weren't originally.


All it takes is one..


Patlal said:
No religion is based on reality. They adapted to pagan belief so they could swallow the pill more easily. They invented prophets to do as if people were actually here to represent God. They all used the december 21st to december 25 as the birth of the prophet because it's the day the sun starts returning for longer period of time.

It's all bullshit, from the start right down to the end.



It was the other way around


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https://discord.gg/NHHd5y2Uyv

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: zZZz]
    #24118514 -

zZZz said:
Asante said:
Akira, when 3 billion christians say Jesus is a thing, he becomes a thing, retroactively, even if he weren't originally.


All it takes is one..




But think of the collective neural net of all christians that ever lived or will live. That's a formidable hive mind.



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Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

:nyan: LGBT - Love God Before Tradition :nyan:

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: Asante]
    #24118640 -

Kill it.


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ShadeOfDeepPurple said: I guess you don't get shamanism yet by the very fact that you describe a psychedelic as Mexican.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: Bozko] * 1
    #24118735 -

Bozko said:
Kill it.



Christians are like tardigrades, they even been in space.


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Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

:nyan: LGBT - Love God Before Tradition :nyan:

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: zZZz]
    #24118737 -

zZZz said:
Patlal said:
No religion is based on reality. They adapted to pagan belief so they could swallow the pill more easily. They invented prophets to do as if people were actually here to represent God. They all used the december 21st to december 25 as the birth of the prophet because it's the day the sun starts returning for longer period of time.

It's all bullshit, from the start right down to the end.



It was the other way around



Please explain this.

I remember watching a documentary, and doing some reading years ago, about how most religions are just manufactured from the oldest belief (animism?).

It was a black and white documentary from the 60's about witches, was really cool, if I find it I will share the title with you.


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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: Lucis]
    #24118895 -

I highly doubt pagans based their beliefs off of Christian beliefs, if that is what zzZZzz is trying to say.


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ShadeOfDeepPurple said: I guess you don't get shamanism yet by the very fact that you describe a psychedelic as Mexican.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: Bozko]
    #24118920 -

Bozko said:
I highly doubt pagans based their beliefs off of Christian beliefs, if that is what zzZZzz is trying to say.


Well you might argue that Christianity kind of destroyed paganism in Europe, but it seems to me like germanic peoples probably just went ahead and integrated it.

It's not like they stopped being vikings... they just repped the cross after that...


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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: g00ru]
    #24118932 -

Teutonic myths have little to do with Christianity, the Nazis were basically a new-age/pagan group.

Also-is Norse mythos Teutonic? I don't know that Vikings were germanic.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: Bozko]
    #24118969 -

Bozko said:
Teutonic myths have little to do with Christianity, the Nazis were basically a new-age/pagan group.

Also-is Norse mythos Teutonic? I don't know that Vikings were germanic.



Well the Scandinavian languages are called germanic so that's why I said that.

No the Norse mythology is not related to Christianity but many Vikings did become Christian as the centuries went on. In that sense they became more like Visigoths, who also adopted Christianity.

Now why you are calling the Nazis a pagan group, I have no idea. Did they worship satan or something? Hard to tell what's a rumor and what isn't with a group like that. If you're calling the Nazis as being a continuation of the Teutons, I'd say that's way off base.


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check out my music!
drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss

Edited by g00ru (02/25/17 02:28 PM)

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: Lucis]
    #24118992 -

Fennario said:
zZZz said:
Patlal said:
No religion is based on reality. They adapted to pagan belief so they could swallow the pill more easily. They invented prophets to do as if people were actually here to represent God. They all used the december 21st to december 25 as the birth of the prophet because it's the day the sun starts returning for longer period of time.

It's all bullshit, from the start right down to the end.



It was the other way around



Please explain



Everything happened before it was written


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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma] * 2
    #24119036 -

talkin shit abou xtians in the pub. so much edge. u fkn madman!

but plz, define 'reality' for the rest of us so we can b smart n kwel lik u, akir.


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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: g00ru]
    #24119037 -

The Thule society was a group of german scholars that proposed a supernatural origin of the Aryan race, related to the teachings of Helena Blavatsky. It wasn't a continuation of Teutonic beliefs per say, but it used them to fuel it's own nationalism and held those beliefs as higher than Christianity.

Thule Society

This group had ties with the DAP, which was reorganized into the Nazi party. You could think of it as the 'lizard people globalist' narrative of that time, and it did for Hitler what Icke and Alex Jones did for Trump, whether they admit that now or not.


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ShadeOfDeepPurple said: I guess you don't get shamanism yet by the very fact that you describe a psychedelic as Mexican.

Edited by Bozko (02/25/17 02:54 PM)

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: Bozko]
    #24119108 -

Bozko said:
The Thule society was a group of german scholars that proposed a supernatural origin of the Aryan race, related to the teachings of Helena Blavatsky. It wasn't a continuation of Teutonic beliefs per say, but it used them to fuel it's own nationalism and held those beliefs as higher than Christianity.

Thule Society

This group had ties with the DAP, which was reorganized into the Nazi party. You could think of it as the 'lizard people globalist' narrative of that time, and it did for Hitler what Icke and Alex Jones did for Trump, whether they admit that now or not.


Oh gotcha. Yeah if they claim to be Knights or something well then i must bid them good day but word I knew the Nazis had esoteric origins. And yes it is creepily similar to what Alex Jones did for Trump.


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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: Deathby69]
    #24119564 -

Patlal said:
No religion is based on reality. They adapted to pagan belief so they could swallow the pill more easily. They invented prophets to do as if people were actually here to represent God. They all used the december 21st to december 25 as the birth of the prophet because it's the day the sun starts returning for longer period of time.

It's all bullshit, from the start right down to the end.

Kudos to those who wrote the book. Incredible job. Every sentence is vague enough to be interpreted any which way you want to see it. Whoever wrote it is in the DaVinci scale of intelligence.


good post.

Deathby69 said:
talkin shit abou xtians in the pub. so much edge. u fkn madman!

but plz, define 'reality' for the rest of us so we can b smart n kwel lik u, akir.




see Pub. ya fucks erected a president that gives this guy carte blanche to call anyone who isn't a religious person a Satanist. (why you people choose this path of unenlightened hogwash is beyond me. Trump = ok...but his proponents ... they are just typical idiots.)

fuck you America. it's all down hill from here, better get to church, or keep your mouth shut,lest the troll-army comes.

gullible people.

Edited by akira_akuma (02/25/17 09:01 PM)

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24119716 -

oh and reality:

you are God. you devour. or you don't.

you either act. or you don't.

the Tao is more accurate a philosophy, than Christianity. bar none.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24119725 -

:rofl:


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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #24119738 -

The Blind Ass said:
:rofl:


:focv:

do you have anything to say for yourself?

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #24119827 -

akira_akuma said:
oh and reality:

you are God. you devour. or you don't.

you either act. or you don't.

the Tao is more accurate a philosophy, than Christianity. bar none.


If I am God, then so is Christ.


--------------------
Confucius say: He who sticks drugs in butthole has head up ass. 


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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: MrBlueYoMind]
    #24119850 -

MrBlueYoMind said:
akira_akuma said:
oh and reality:

you are God. you devour. or you don't.

you either act. or you don't.

the Tao is more accurate a philosophy, than Christianity. bar none.


If I am God, then so is Christ.


and there you have it. if he really did exist, well, that is just it, you've GOT IT.

that is what Christ preached. read your Bible carefully.

all the new testament stories are from fucking farmers (and the like...normal people!) and they had their OWN personal experiences with Christ...THAT'S THE POINT!

:whyyy:

and yet people, Christians! still want to ACCUSE people of being EVIL for not believing in THEIR BELIEFS...WHYYY?

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24119862 -

Arent you accusing Christians (your thread title) as well?

Pot callin the kettle, man


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #24119864 -

no it isn't.

it's the "pot" calling out the Christians who want to subjugate people to their own beliefs, ignoring the fact that it's individual beliefs that are important.

and then calling out the fact that Christians (obviously not all of them) will try to use logic to defend irrational positions! like "being Gay is a sin". NO IT'S NOT.

but they'll try and rationalize that retarded belief.

and Christians should be accused, just like they accuse other people. you do NOT TURN THE OTHER CHEEK. that notion has CLEARLY been upended, and it's true, you shouldn't. why let your opponents win, if they want to stick you with a knife? carry your own knife, fuck turning the other cheek. and, certainly, on the Christian-right, they have finally learned this, but they, like in a typical fashion, want to make enemies out of just about anyone...if we were in the Middle East, they'd be rounding people up, probably. lucky we're not.

and the LIBERAL CHRISTIANS, they'd be persecuted too. for not believing in the dogma of the more powerful factions within the faith, they'd be upended to! the real
Christians, the non-charlatans!

Edited by akira_akuma (02/25/17 10:24 PM)

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24119898 -

If we are all God, and therefor Christ is God, and he was killed for making this claim, then it only suggests siding with Christ is the correct thing to do.  Maybe you are conflating Catholicism with Christianity?


--------------------
Confucius say: He who sticks drugs in butthole has head up ass. 


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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: MrBlueYoMind]
    #24119902 -

no, it doesn't. because then you're allowing that he should have been crucified.

"forgive them, they know not what they do", rings true.

if we are all God, and therefor Christ is God, and he was killed for making this claim, then it suggests that you should side with yourself.

Catholics is another matter altogether. they suck worse. yeah. :shrug: but Christians all the same, everywhere, all want to play the fucking martyr. it's STUPID. and they are inveigled, either by whim, or by authorities (principalities) to then see those they don't align with as the next Pontius, even if that person is just simply a non-Christian.

it's deceptive. it's retarded.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24119910 -

If we are all God, and therefor Christ is God, and he was killed for making this claim, then it suggests that you should side with TRUTH.  Which means siding with Christ as well.  Especially against people who would have you point a certain direction when you pray or make you visit a tourist spot in order to prove your worth or require you to mutilate your infant's genitalia or require you to spill blood in the form of sacrifice.


--------------------
Confucius say: He who sticks drugs in butthole has head up ass. 


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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: MrBlueYoMind]
    #24119929 -

no one is fucking talking about Muslims here, WTF ARE TALKING ABOUT?

Muslims are more retarded than any Christian, when it comes to them trying to rationalize their ridiculous beliefs.

THE TRUTH HAS ALREADY BEEN GIVEN TO YOU. YOU ARE CHRIST. PERIOD.

keep denying the FUCKING OBVIOUS, or go read your fucking Bible more closely.

you can side with Christ...i never said otherwise...but siding with Christ does not change the fact that YOU are THE TRUTH. his crucifixion did not forestall the people from committing to SIN, did it? NO, IT DIDN'T.

and CHRISTIANS, SO-CALLED, keep trying to cast the first stone, when they are told THE FUCKING TRUTH.

WHAT STAIN.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24119930 -

You seem to be claiming that existence is limited to the physical world and anything beyond that must therefore equal non-existence? This would imply that practical knowledge is the only kind of knowledge, which is a problem, because logic and reason afaik cannot exist without some a-priori postulates that ultimately rely on a type of faith (or revelation). You said that logic needs to be grounded in order to have value, and I agree, but how much grounding is there in a world of constant change, where we need faith just to believe that our senses accurately represent reality? What we call the physical world is, I think, more like a projection of consciousness, and so any evidence of logic we might find here is only a degenerate reflection of logic, not the thing itself. If there is such a thing as pure reason then it originates in consciousness, prior to its physical manifestation. Jesus literally did nothing wrong.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: tHEfLY]
    #24119944 -

tHEfLY said:
You seem to be claiming that existence is limited to the physical world and anything beyond that must therefore equal non-existence?


no, i didn't, read my thread more carefully. i said cosmic forces exist, and spiritual forces exist. you must have missed that part.

Quote:
This would imply that practical knowledge is the only kind of knowledge, which is a problem, because logic and reason afaik cannot exist without some a-priori postulates that ultimately rely on a type of faith (or revelation).


faith isn't required for knowledge. a-priori postulates are not faith, they are logically derived.

Quote:
You said that logic needs to be grounded in order to have value, and I agree, but how much grounding is there in a world of constant change, where we need faith just to believe that our senses accurately represent reality?


you don't need faith for that. you don't need to believe that your senses accurately represent reality, in fact, you shouldn't believe that at all. ESPECIALLY if you're a Christian, you shouldn't believe that...what Christians claim is that God has a plan and he runs things...so as a Christian, you shouldn't believe that your senses are the truth at all. :shrug:

Quote:
What we call the physical world is, I think, more like a projection of consciousness, and so any evidence of logic we might find here is only a degenerate reflection of logic, not the thing itself. If there is such a thing as pure reason then it originates in consciousness, prior to its physical manifestation. Jesus literally did nothing wrong.


sure, he did nothing wrong. i never claimed he did anything wrong, of course. in fact, even in a secular sense, he did everything right. i'm not claiming that people should run the world like some kind of farm or something, but his notions were postulated with truth in mind. money is crap. sinners cast the first stone (like calling people who aren't Christians Satanists). the priest class is crap. worshipping people is crap.

everything is projected. that's why YOU ARE GOD.

if you don't realize that, you're projecting a future in which you devour yourself, and in that end, you don't even know you're doing it.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24119979 -

I was pointing towards different beliefs that are found in the world, not just Islam.  Ritual blood/human sacrifice occurs/occurred throughout the world.  Orthodox Judaism sucks the blood off an infants freshly mutilated penis.  But by all means say Christians have no basis in reality, despite Christ standing against these things and you admit he would be God (under the presumption he lived) and the purpose of his death representing an end to these things.  No basis in reality, it's not like these things still occur among groups who deny his teachings.


--------------------
Confucius say: He who sticks drugs in butthole has head up ass. 


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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: Asante]
    #24119981 -

Asante said:
Akira, when 3 billion christians say Jesus is a thing, he becomes a thing, retroactively, even if he weren't originally.



the thing he becomes is the god of a cult


--------------------
California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: MrBlueYoMind]
    #24119986 -

no, i didn't say his death represented ANYTHING. that's a bunch of BULLSHIT.

and Pagan's also practiced the renouncing those whom made blood sacrifices; take an anthropology course. Christ wasn't the first or only one.

but since you are completely blinded by your faith, you can't even see the forest for the trees. i am telling you the truth, and you are consistently going to bring up other religions...we're not talking about those religions; they are just stupid, but we are not discussing them...but that's all you have to keep your blindfold over your eyes, diversion, and ignorance.

Prisoner#1 said:
Asante said:
Akira, when 3 billion christians say Jesus is a thing, he becomes a thing, retroactively, even if he weren't originally.



the thing he becomes is the god of a cult



ding ding ding ding ding, we have a winner!

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24119991 -

Quote:
no, i didn't, read my thread more carefully. i said cosmic forces exist, and spiritual forces exist. you must have missed that part.


Ok, but that was how I interpreted this:

Quote:
yes, manifest, at the very least, as mind-stuff, which in turn forms into material reality. material reality needs a firm basis in facts, which are couched in logic, that logic which needs a firm basis in reality, reality defined as things that actually exists.


What do you mean by "things that actually exist"? What are those things, in your opinion?

Quote:
aith isn't required for knowledge. a-priori postulates are not faith, they are logically derived.


Logically derived from what though? Not sense experience:

"relating to or denoting reasoning or knowledge which proceeds from theoretical deduction rather than from observation or experience."

Quote:
YOU ARE GOD


I think we all share God's essence, but that's not the same as actually being God.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24120003 -

K

I was suggesting you admitted he would be God if he existed.

If you claim all people are God while simultaneously thinking a person being killed for claiming to be God by people who perform ritual sacrifices to god is just meaningless BULLSHIT, then you are out of touch with reality.


--------------------
Confucius say: He who sticks drugs in butthole has head up ass. 


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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: MrBlueYoMind]
    #24120064 -

Quote:
What do you mean by "things that actually exist"? What are those things, in your opinion?


i can resort the simple example of animal homosexuality. :shrug: there is your answer. infer from that.

Quote:
Logically derived from what though? Not sense experience:

"relating to or denoting reasoning or knowledge which proceeds from theoretical deduction rather than from observation or experience."


no, senses and perception is the thing that i am acknowledging as the problem.

and to answer your question: logically derived from rationality.

you obviously don't think the Westburo Baptist church are being rational, do you? but the thing is, they believe they ARE rational. they believe they follow the true word of God. you don't find that problematic?

Quote:
I think we all share God's essence, but that's not the same as actually being God.


i think it's EXACTLY the same difference.

MrBlueYoMind said:
K

I was suggesting you admitted he would be God if he existed.

If you claim all people are God while simultaneously thinking a person being killed for claiming to be God by people who perform ritual sacrifices to god is just meaningless BULLSHIT, then you are out of touch with reality.


i never said that. you can understand the words that are coming out of my hands.

you say i said "it's bullshit; that his sacrifice was meaningless"; but i never said that. what I SAID was that acting like a martyr is a bullshit cop-out to put oneself in JESUS'S SHOES (so to speak...sandals...whatever!).

you said: "the purpose of his death represents an end to these things" (paraphrasing)

1: a representation, or actuality? HUH? which is it?
2: if the purpose of his death was to end these things, why do they still occur?

it's a cult mentality that you have. which is why you can't even HEAR the truth.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24120088 -

Christ is one who lived to teach and live of the way of kindness,  forgiveness and love with wisdom, something that is timeless and not bound to any thing : no man, no religion, no time era, nothing.
the moral christian today is its bane, yet what can we do to those who do not know truth because they are ignorant?  All while remembering a consideration is made from the place where the ground of being encompasses all beings and not just those who are "awake" or "asleep" or fluttering in between like restless dreamers.
It accepts all, lacking in discrimination, and so being one with that all is primordially pure, both the saints and sinners from the tiniest insect to the galaxies of space.

How can you hate that, especially when that is me and you?  Sounds as benevolent as can be.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps or give me Death caps.

Edited by The Blind Ass (02/26/17 12:00 AM)

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #24120098 -

i'm not talking about Christ. i'm talking about CHRISTIANS. not Christ. i have a picture of Christ right outside my bedroom door. go figure!

Quote:
yet what can we do to those who do not know truth because they are ignorant?


yeah, so help me the fuck out then!

Quote:
It accepts all, lacking in discrimination, and so being one with that all is primordially pure, both the saints and sinners from the tiniest insect to the galaxies of space.


and yet Christians insist on discriminating! that's the point!

:facepalm: can't you people READ?

Quote:
How can you hate that, especially when that is me and you?


what the dogshit are you talking about?

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #24120106 -

The point is by pointing that out you miss the point even further, and in doing so actually end up standing in the very crowd you stone.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps or give me Death caps.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #24120111 -

The Blind Ass said:
The point is by pointing that out you miss the point even further, and in doing so actually end up standing in the very crowd you stone.


i'm not stoning anyone. Christians are throwing stones, not i.

pointing WHAT out? that Christians are discriminating that certain people are Satanists because they don't believe like they believe? discriminating against gays? (saying being gay goes hand-in-hand with pedophilia? you've seen Milo whatever get shafted by CPAC, right?)

WTF are you talking about?

pointing out that CHRISTIANS are not being CHRIST-LIKE, while expecting non-christians to be Christ-like?

what the fuck!?

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24120113 -

you have been caught by mara's gaze young one.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps or give me Death caps.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #24120121 -

The Blind Ass said:
you have been caught by mara's gaze young one.


the universe's primary action is destruction, and following the aftermath, then creation.
(Christ was DESTROYED, then he was RENEWED through CREATION...READ YOUR BIBLE)

i am Mara. i am here to give you the truth.

and you all throw stones, and then try to rationalize it...just like i said you all would, in the OP.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24120123 -

:regretthumbsup:


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps or give me Death caps.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24120128 -

akira_akuma said:
Quote:
What do you mean by "things that actually exist"? What are those things, in your opinion?


i can resort the simple example of animal homosexuality. :shrug: there is your answer. infer from that.

Quote:
Logically derived from what though? Not sense experience:

"relating to or denoting reasoning or knowledge which proceeds from theoretical deduction rather than from observation or experience."


no, senses and perception is the thing that i am acknowledging as the problem.

and to answer your question: logically derived from rationality.

you obviously don't think the Westburo Baptist church are being rational, do you? but the thing is, they believe they ARE rational. they believe they follow the true word of God. you don't find that problematic?


Animal homosexuality doesn't exist in the same way that rationality exists though. One refers to observation of the physical world, the other to pure intellect. This is the problem that I saw in the OP: On one hand you're saying that logic needs to be grounded in reality, ie through sense experience, and then on the other you're saying that actually it's grounded in rationality, ie through speculative reason. I thought you were equating speculative reason with nothingness, but maybe I missed your point, or we're talking about different things. I don't really care about the Westburo Baptist church, being irrational has never been limited to one group.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #24120129 -

The Blind Ass said:
:regretthumbsup:


good job, Rationalization Man.

now run away.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #24120130 -

Boggita snogarooooooog


--------------------
This section of the signature line has been intentionally left blank.

Remember to always courtesy flush

  we could all use a little more sunshine.

:shrug: yeah, she's funny and somewhat interesting.  not a beauty queen, but not bad lookin.  i'd feel quite honored to fuck janine garofalo. -tiny_rabid_birds

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: tHEfLY]
    #24120139 -

tHEfLY said:
Animal homosexuality doesn't exist in the same way that rationality exists though. One refers to observation of the physical world, the other to pure intellect. This is the problem that I saw in the OP: On one hand you're saying that logic needs to be grounded in reality, ie through sense experience, and then on the other you're saying that actually it's grounded in rationality, ie through speculative reason. I thought you were equating speculative reason with nothingness, but maybe I missed your point, or we're talking about different things. I don't really care about the Westburo Baptist church, being irrational has never been limited to one group.


you're missing the point, but you're closer still.

animal homosexuality is an example i used to show that the Christian reasoning that endeavors that "being gay is a sin", is wrong, because it can be shown to be wrong.

logic needs to be grounded in LOGIC. that's WHAT LOGIC IS.

reality is mere a consensus of objective facts, and subjective notions. it is NOT solely based in the senses...do you sense your thought? no, you don't.

and no, not on the "the other hand", am i saying that logic is based on rationality. rationality is based on rationality. logic is based on logic. both are twain, when you're speaking TRUTH. but they can both be separated.

this is what alot of christians don't do...use both, twain, to come to their conclusions...hence you get absurd notions. that's why there are so many different sects of Christianity. but you don't want to admit that? or do you?

speculative reasoning is the only thing you have in this non-spiritual plane. can you understand God? can you understand the spiritual planes of existence? no you can't. you can only have faith. THAT'S THE POINT. you don't KNOW. so people claiming that "being gay is a sin" (for example) are forgetting the fact that they can't form a logical, and rational, opinion based on that reasoning, because it's simply NOT reasonable. (and are "throwing the first stones")

and it is based on nothingness. you can't define the spiritual in human terms, and when you try, it comes out absurd and nonsensical. so what i'm saying is, save the spiritual for the spiritual (THE INDIVIDUAL'S BELIEFS), and use the rational and logical and reasonable for THIS PLANET WE EXIST ON NOW and for what is OUTSIDE OF THE INDIVIDUALS OWN MIND AND BELIEFS.

but no one gives a FLYING FUCK. you'd all rather devour the messenger, because you must beware the messenger. it tells of news that you don't desire.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #24120148 -

The secret to Christianity is that its the Christians, themselves, who killed Jesus and persecute his followers, even today. They repeat their Satanic bloodletting ritual symbolically, enslaving and crucifying the Lamb, to be redeemed of their terrible sins. It's some twisted evil shit.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #24120154 -

Sophistic Radiance said:
The secret to Christianity is that its the Christians, themselves, who killed Jesus and persecute his followers, even today. They repeat their Satanic bloodletting ritual symbolically, enslaving and crucifying the Lamb, to be redeemed of their terrible sins. It's some twisted evil shit.


of course that's, ya know, the Synagogue of Satan. :satan: ooooooo

but they don't want to listen...i'm trying to help them. honestly so i can help myself, i don't want them to persecute anyone else any further- the churches are vast, but it's been in need of reform since...ooo...since before the Medieval Age.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24120156 -

akira_akuma said:
...i'm trying to help them.



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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: PatrickKn]
    #24120169 -

good song. too bad people would listen to it and nod, and then go and tell me that i should respect Jesus for being killed.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24120185 -

What christian teaching says being gay is a sin?
Even you say it is opposite to what the christ teaching is, so to say it is christians who are propagating it does whate exactly?  Other than draw my attention to the fact that It must mean they as individuals lack personal understanding of the god-self-nature-mind-teaching / whatever you want to call the nameless / which comes from direct experience and not scriptures or men of higher authority.

Knowing its the individuals own blindness to the facts of nature, why then do you blame christianity for it? A nonliving thing which only serves to keep alive the remembrance of the universal mystic within all beings?Without mans spirit it is like an empty and abandoned building, like a carcass or a shell.

I just think your method for what your getting at is childish or distasteful and it causes more harm than good, doing good would take more skillful means to elucidate your intention, observations, and goal and with a touch of compassionate kindness you may even have others listen with full attention and not kick up dust to further obscure or divide.


Do you not fault and hate on Trump for the very same thing?  Now look at you - its almost like you have taken a liking to him on some level because your doing the same thing, only in this regard and on a more specific and localized level.

That bothers you doesnt it?

Well...I guess this is the shroomery pub forum and I can't expect enlightenment to unfold here in anyway that I would venture to say I understand, but that doesn't stop it from happening.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps or give me Death caps.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #24120196 -

Quote:
What christian teaching says being gay is a sin?


i dunno, you tell me. tell me why people believe it is, and why they defend the notion to the ends of absurdity.

Quote:
Even you say it is opposite to what the christ teaching is, so to say it is christians who are propagating it does whate exactly?


i dunno, you tell me. how should i know, i didn't build the fucking thing.

Quote:
which comes from direct experience


bingo. so we disagree where?

Quote:
Knowing its the individuals own blindness to the facts of nature, why then do you blame christianity for it?


blame Christianity?
i never did any such thing.
i said it was Christians...not Christianity...that promotes such things.

Quote:
A nonliving thing which only serves to keep alive the remembrance of the universal mystic within all beings?


haven't done anything of the sort.

Quote:
Without mans spirit it is like an empty and abandoned building, like a carcass or a shell.


show me the spirit.
otherwise, i'll stick to my own beliefs on the intellect of the mind of "God".

Quote:
I just think your method for what your getting at is childish or distasteful and it causes more harm than good, doing good would take more skillful means to elucidate your intention, observations, and goal and with a touch of compassionate kindness you may even have others listen with full attention and not kick up dust to further obscure or divide.


that is a Christian work. not mine. i wasn't childish or distasteful in any of my posts, from yesterday... https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24116649/fpart/1/vc/1

show me where i was childish or distasteful. point it out to me.

Quote:
Do you not fault and hate on Trump for the very same thing? 


wtf? i fault Trump? WHAT? when the fuck have i faulted Trump, all i've ever said about him is that he's doing a good job so far. :confused: i think you're confused, and now you've just rubbed it off on me. fault Trump...never happened. i've been consistent on my stance on Trump. he's doing fine enough as it is. it's his proponents i don't agree with, on many issues...not all. some i'm on board with (like bringing jobs back from overseas, ect)

Quote:
Now look at you - its almost like you have taken a liking to him on some level because your doing the same thing, only in this regard and on a more specific and localized level.


:shrug: i don't know if you get what i'm getting at, but...so? so i'm being like Trump? cool.

Quote:
That bothers you doesnt it?


what bothers me? that you think i'm like Trump? that doesn't bother me. see: OP- for what bothers me.

Quote:
Well...I guess this is the shroomery pub forum and I can't expect enlightenment to unfold here in anyway that I would venture to say I understand, but that doesn't stop it from happening.


well, we can try.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24120197 -

Great thread,
akira! Don't let anyone say your trying too hard, buddy. You still got edge  galore!!
Woo how, akira to the rescue!!


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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: Deathby69]
    #24120202 -

failpost with no substance. good Christian response.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: Deathby69] * 1
    #24120203 -

He said show me the spirit...:rofl:

I am afraid I cannot sell you water in good faith, because you stand in a river of it.

it is like a magical illusion, It is absent- yet - apparent, always already binding us primordially whether we know it or not. 

Who is asking the question?  can you point it out,  the source of awareness prior to picking and choosing.



--------------------
Give me Liberty caps or give me Death caps.

Edited by The Blind Ass (02/26/17 01:27 AM)

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24120205 -

Failthread from a comical whiteknight shitheel who takes himself far too seriously. Defining reality for everyone. That's rich!


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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #24120207 -

The Blind Ass said:
He said show me the spirit...:rofl:

I am afraid I cannot sell you water in good faith, because you stand in a river of it.


you're still crassly unable to see the point.

you can't show me the spirit. that's the point. you can't. so why are you trying to tell me about it?

the spirit of God is in the mind (where it stays) and you people are so stuck in the mud of your ways, that you can't even see when you agree with someone, just because that person has given you a true perspective on the notion of spirit.

you're so blind, you're insatiable.

Deathby69 said:
Failthread from a comical whiteknight shitheel who takes himself far too seriously. Defining reality for everyone. That's rich!


you're the shitheel. LOL

i'm not defining reality. what a rehab. :lol:

Quote:
it is like a magical illusion, both absent- yet - apparent, always already binding us primordially weather we know it or not.


it's in the mind...and it stays in the mind.

it's not an illusion. it's certainly not in the air. it's not around you, nor is it inside you. it's inside your mind. you can't access it, because it's already everything that it is.


keep laughing, Sparky.

Quote:
Who is asking the question?  can you point it out,  the source of awareness prior to picking and choosing.


what question? try responding to something with rationality.
no one, from i can tell, is asking a question. i am TELLING you something. not questioning anything.

can i point out the source?

i can't even lay a finger on the source, lest it disappears.

can you?

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24120211 -

The mind is the spirit of god, transparent and empty of substance yet endowed with primordial wisdom, this body is its temple and that of natures and that of the mind.  Like the space which is contained within a cell.

What can be revealed by a web of speculative concepts? The mind's imputations are our mental constructs
and even if absolute emptiness could be evoked, we are left only with belief in the natural state oi being.
What can be known by any pointing out, when the point lies beyond the pointing and the pointed out?


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps or give me Death caps.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #24120213 -

No right-wing Christian ever forced me to anoint with oil. But leftist charlatans posing as scientists banned the only type of inhaler that helped my elderly mom’s asthma, because the act of her going “puff puff” so she wouldn’t die was bringing about the end of days, while Al Gore’s totally unnecessary private jet oddly had no effect on the environment.

That’s science? No, that’s an Indian rain dance.

There are so many additional ways in which the left embraces superstition and rejects science as much as, if not more than, conservative Christians. During the election last year, leftists attacked Trump for suggesting that intelligence has a genetic component, even though, according to every legitimate expert on the subject, intelligence has a genetic component. Trump had not claimed that intelligence is determined by race; he had only suggested that genetics play a part. And overnight, the notion of a genetic role in intelligence went from undisputed fact to heresy, all because Pope Huffington issued a papal bull(shit) declaring that Trump’s belief that genes contribute to intelligence “may be the most horrible thing that Donald Trump believes.”

Expect more superstitious nonsense from leftists in the years to come, because if leftists have demon-haunted minds, Trump is the ghost rattling around inside, clouding all judgment and giving rise to visions and fever dreams. Undeservedly famous leftist comedians are seeing signs and wonders. Sarah Silverman’s phantom pavement swastikas were nothing more than the leftist-Jewish version of seeing Jesus in a tortilla.

Silverman’s response after being told that her “swastikas” were simple construction markers boiled down to “I’ve been driven to lunacy by Trump’s anti-Semitism.” In other words, she’s possessed; a demon made her do it.

These days, the left has no moral high ground over the religious right. In fact, I’d take a conservative Christian over a demon-haunted leftist any day, because at least conservative Christians admit that their beliefs are faith-based. They don’t go around screaming “science! science! science!” while drinking sacrificial goats’ blood Santeria-style because the rain gods are angry.

I have nothing against people of faith. But hypocrites? They piss me off like a sonofabitch.


--------------------

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #24120215 -

oh so you and i are in agreement, but you just thought you'd try and make me your opponent because i point out the faults of the religious within the religion. :rolleyes:

Quote:
What can be known by any pointing out, when the point lies beyond the pointing and the pointed out?


why do Christians claim that being gay is a sin?

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24120216 -

Misunderstanding, due to human nature.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps or give me Death caps.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: Deathby69]
    #24120217 -

Deathby69 said:
No right-wing Christian ever forced me to anoint with oil. But leftist charlatans posing as scientists banned the only type of inhaler that helped my elderly mom’s asthma, because the act of her going “puff puff” so she wouldn’t die was bringing about the end of days, while Al Gore’s totally unnecessary private jet oddly had no effect on the environment.

That’s science? No, that’s an Indian rain dance.

There are so many additional ways in which the left embraces superstition and rejects science as much as, if not more than, conservative Christians. During the election last year, leftists attacked Trump for suggesting that intelligence has a genetic component, even though, according to every legitimate expert on the subject, intelligence has a genetic component. Trump had not claimed that intelligence is determined by race; he had only suggested that genetics play a part. And overnight, the notion of a genetic role in intelligence went from undisputed fact to heresy, all because Pope Huffington issued a papal bull(shit) declaring that Trump’s belief that genes contribute to intelligence “may be the most horrible thing that Donald Trump believes.”

Expect more superstitious nonsense from leftists in the years to come, because if leftists have demon-haunted minds, Trump is the ghost rattling around inside, clouding all judgment and giving rise to visions and fever dreams. Undeservedly famous leftist comedians are seeing signs and wonders. Sarah Silverman’s phantom pavement swastikas were nothing more than the leftist-Jewish version of seeing Jesus in a tortilla.

Silverman’s response after being told that her “swastikas” were simple construction markers boiled down to “I’ve been driven to lunacy by Trump’s anti-Semitism.” In other words, she’s possessed; a demon made her do it.

These days, the left has no moral high ground over the religious right. In fact, I’d take a conservative Christian over a demon-haunted leftist any day, because at least conservative Christians admit that their beliefs are faith-based. They don’t go around screaming “science! science! science!” while drinking sacrificial goats’ blood Santeria-style because the rain gods are angry.

I have nothing against people of faith. But hypocrites? They piss me off like a sonofabitch.


good post. at least, finally, you've said something worthwhile.

but i've never claimed to be a scientist or into scientism, i that's what you're claiming.

also, logic isn't faith based. that's why using logic to try and justify the absurd (being gay is a sin) is ridiculous. like i said.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #24120218 -

The Blind Ass said:
Misunderstanding, due to human nature.


*due to dogma.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24120220 -

Wrong.  The problem is not contained within or concerned with words and letters.

The core of christian dogma is clear.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps or give me Death caps.

Edited by The Blind Ass (02/26/17 01:36 AM)

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #24120223 -

The Blind Ass said:
Wrong.  The problem is not contained within or concerned with words and letters.


yes, it is. it's contained in words, and it's contained in misconceptions about what is being said, heard, or told in the written word.

sort of like the mainstream media.

but now you're just arguing semantics. which is fine, but...you said due to misunderstanding, which is due to human nature, makes christians claim that being gay is a sin, right?

and you say that christian dogma has nothing to do with that human nature...? even though christians, according to the very faith they lay claim to, believe that their God is the source of human nature?

how do you reconcile those statements?

???

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24120227 -

Hey, when its worth the effort, I go all out. :thumbup:


--------------------

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: Deathby69]
    #24120229 -

Deathby69 said:
Hey, when its worth the effort, I go all out. :thumbup:


well, good. but then again, i don't think any of what you said applies to me, and it's kind of off-topic, but i'll just ignore that for now.

also, i've never claimed to be a scientist or into scientism, if that's what you were getting at...i have my own spiritual beliefs.

and also, logic isn't faith based. that's why using logic to try and justify the absurd (being gay is a sin) is ridiculous. like i said already.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24120232 -

The word Illusion comes to mind.  Because of that phenomena I believe it can be seen incorrectly for what it is not and be taken to be true.  They are not separate.  Both human nature and god, a slight misnomer to say its a false dichotomy but its illustrative enough to say so if you follow.

You set yourself up by discriminating between the two, the spoiled mind mistakes this unity for duality.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps or give me Death caps.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #24120237 -

The Blind Ass said:
The word Illusion comes to mind.  Because of that phenomena I believe it can be seen incorrectly for what it is not and be taken to be true.  They are not separate.  Both human nature and god, a slight misnomer to say its a false dichotomy but its illustrative enough to say so if you follow.

You set yourself up by discriminating between the two, the spoiled mind mistakes this unity for duality.


all you're saying here is that God is as irrational as human beings.

that's more of that absurdity again! :lol:

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24120242 -

I am not qualified to say what is irrational or absurd in this universe, especially when about such things as that.  I do not have pure vision or contemplation at all times, so I am in effect like the blind, unseeing in that totality, and like the ass, dumb to the majority of the opposite of ignorance.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps or give me Death caps.

Edited by The Blind Ass (02/26/17 01:46 AM)

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #24120243 -

that's right, you're not qualified. no one is. so why did you say what you said?

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24120246 -

I do not know.  For the love and for the mystery if I had to guess, human nature.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps or give me Death caps.

Edited by The Blind Ass (02/26/17 01:49 AM)

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #24120250 -

human nature is not predicated on ignorance, nor error, nor sin.

Jesus H. Christ...that's what you're getting at isn't it? that human nature is predicated on ignorance and error.... :facepalm:

well, Jesus would disagree, at least, according to all the texts i've read, and i've read quite alot, even the Gnostic texts.

all i see is Jesus claiming the opposite. that humanity is God's perfect creation, in His image, and it's only because we live in a carnal realm that sin and error and ignorance effect us so.

you don't want to admit contradiction in your words, do you?

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24120255 -

You misunderstood me.  I am not getting at that human nature is predicated on ignorance and error, far from it actually, although those things you mentioned are also included as part of its effulgence.

The kingdom of heaven is at hand he says so poetically.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps or give me Death caps.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #24120258 -

Contradiction can only happen at a conventional level, so obviously over the course of time my words will appear to be that.  But to be caught on the words like that!? How awful when the truth lies plain in sight, even with words that contradict on a superficial level.  Isnt it a shame that a word cant tell you more than words can say?

Primal awareness is nondual and super inclusive , like the space of the universe, even to contradictions.

My point is you are missing the point, and in doing so essentially get sold dog meat advertising itself as filet mignonette.

Funny enough sin means - to miss the point, as in the way an archer misses his target.

You confuse man made law and niche moral judgement for the real thing.

You also see that in others and become impassioned, both right and wrong.

You win. 

Edited by The Blind Ass (02/26/17 02:16 AM)

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #24120271 -

The Blind Ass said:
You misunderstood me.  I am not getting at that human nature is predicated on ignorance and error, far from it actually, although those things you mentioned are also included as part of its effulgence.

The kingdom of heaven is at hand he says so poetically.


you mean what some random indiscriminate scribe postulated he said.

Quote:
Contradiction can only happen at a conventional level, so obviously over the course of time my words will appear to be that.  But to be caught on the words like that!? How awful when the truth lies plain in sight, even with words that contradict on a superficial level.  Isnt it a shame that a word cant tell you more than words can say?


what's a shame is that Christians believe absurd things and then run with it, because they think they can impart logic into their decisions, and have their beliefs be rational and explained, within the context of a spiritual proclamation about the nature of mankind's perfection/purpose, from an identification with "God"- an identification that's attributed to the notion that they can understand "God" based on what the Bible says...WITH WORDS.

Quote:
Primal awareness is nondual.



and yet, it's claimed to be, when Christians claim to know what "God" wants.

Quote:
My point is you are missing the point, and in doing so essentially get sold dog meat advertising itself as filet mignonette.


that's you, friendo.

Quote:
Funny enough sin means - to miss the point, as in the way an archer misses his target.


"hata" is not "sin", though. two different etymologies. a closer definition would be Error, truly. and you're committing to it.

Quote:
You confuse man made law and niche moral judgements for the real thing.


um, i haven't even commented on "man made law". and what's the real thing? where? show me.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24120273 -

Yes, yes ... you win akira.  good night friend, get some rest.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps or give me Death caps.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #24120283 -

The Blind Ass said:
Yes, yes ... you win akira.  good night friend, get some rest.


another attempt to logic people to death with beliefs, with two diametrically opposed concepts, failed.

good day.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24120285 -

be careful, you might forget to think if your being too logical. good day.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps or give me Death caps.

Edited by The Blind Ass (02/26/17 02:32 AM)

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #24120287 -

The Blind Ass said:
be careful, you might forget to think if your being to logical. good day.


that's never gonna happen. :facepalm: your beliefs are unfounded.

if belief isn't something consciously chosen then you don't really believe it.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24120320 -

You are clearly a babe.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps or give me Death caps.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #24120330 -

yeah, now you've got nothing to say but what you can to make me smaller. :wink: that's ok.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: MrBlueYoMind] * 1
    #24120399 -

MrBlueYoMind said:
akira_akuma said:
oh and reality:

you are God. you devour. or you don't.

you either act. or you don't.

the Tao is more accurate a philosophy, than Christianity. bar none.


If I am God, then so is Christ.



Christ even said "Ye are Gods, you are children of the Mosh High" and the NT is full of him indirectly saying to his apostles "no you bunch of dipsticks, dont put me on a pedestal, what I do you can do and I want you to learn to do what I can do" and they're all "noo you are the Lord, we are but worms" Jesus wants you to stop being a muggle, awaken the Divinity within and literally walk on water.



They JUST. DIDN'T. GET. IT.




You are the Observer in a system where the Universe is willing to turn a blind eye if your conviction and faith is strong enough. You can do ANYTHING if you align you mind and spirit.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

:nyan: LGBT - Love God Before Tradition :nyan:

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. (moved) [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24120579 -

This thread was moved from The Pub.

Reason:
Belongs in S&M

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: trendal]
    #24120629 -

Does it benefit me to judge a religion on its worst or middling representatives, or the best of them? Where I choose to weigh something is just a reflection of my state.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #24120710 -

akira_akuma said:
i wanted to share my opinion, and have a discussion, about the rationale people use to impart their beliefs on the world, and in a lot of instances, force their opinions down people's throats, based on ridiculous notions that have no logical backing, and that are only based on fairy tales and hokum. such as "God is in control!"

no, that isn't true at all.

but i'd like to discuss why people think they can construe that as logical, based on the fact that they believe in it so strongly. i don't think christians should do that; nor do i think they should be running a free country; too risky.

things like the pervading notion that "Sex is a mortal sin", for one example, out of many.

things like that ^ are untenable...yet christians always want to tout that their reasoning for believing such things, are based in logic and rationality, when it's bereft of it entirely. the logic breaks down completely. same goes for the notion that "the christan God is the true God".

yeah, people say these things, and try to argue that it's true, when there is literally and absolutely no way of that being true, and then use that belief to try and justify their actions, and instincts about the world. the notion is a lie, a convenient lie to try and control people. that's all it is.

christians try to rationalize their bigotry and their fears about their moral quandaries, with logic, logic which has no place in their beliefs, because their beliefs are not rational.

i don't think it's smart to allow a political force that thinks the crazy things christians believe to try and settle anything with logic, regarding those beliefs, because those beliefs are inherently unsound to begin with, and logic doesn't fit into them; regardless how hard one tries to make their beliefs make sense, they just don't. i don't want them running the country, nor do i want their propaganda-laden political movements to seduce young people into losing their rational mind.

in a sense, christianity poisons the rational minds logic with unsound beliefs, which essentially make christians unable to logical rule their mind, and thus unable to make a logical stance, or take logical station, for anyone in anyway, within any kind of command structure, let alone, any kind of debate.

as soon as their beliefs enter the debate it becomes quite obvious that they are not rational...i fear, that it goes so far as to completely taint the minds logical faculties, if one holds the beliefs that christians tend to hold, within the majority of the religion.


Truthfully, a lot Christians, Priests, and Pastors are guilty of hypocrisy. They interpret the Word of God to fit their lifestyles or what they think God is trying to say. I can tell you with 100% certainty God hates that. Absolutely HATES being misquoted and being spoken for.

Everything negative a Christian does God says not to do. Like praying out loud to make a spectacle of yourself to show how much you love God. Jesus said to pray in your room, quietly and in secret.

"Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful." Psalm 1-1. You know how many Christians break this covenant? "But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night." Psalm 1-2. Do you know how many Christians don't meditate even though in the Bible it literally tells you to? So many interpret meditation as prayer, when they are completely different things. God hates being misquoted.

God is not fully in control. We have Free Will. However, God does have the final say in all matters. You could be a serial child rapist and still be forgiven by God. I consider that very unlikely, but still possible.

Sex is not a mortal sin. Adultery is a sin. Many Priest+Pastors interpret that as any adultery you commit against God, or anything that takes you further from God. No. Cheating on your spouse, that's what it means. Are you married? Yes. Then don't cheat on your beloved. How hard is that?

You seem to enjoy the word logic. What we know and the thirst for knowledge are manifestations of the ego and even our True Selves, imo.


--------------------
"I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay… small acts of kindness and love.” - Gandalf The Grey.

"It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle

"I like to think of Jesus like with giant eagle's wings, and singin' lead vocals for Lynyrd Skynyrd with like an angel band and I'm in the front row and I'm HAMMERED DRUNK!" - Cal Naughton Jr. AKA The Magic Man. Abracadabra homes!

"Each tear is a drop of poison released." - Anonymous

"Could it be you're afraid of what your friends might say if they knew you believe in God above? They should realize before they criticize that God is the only way to Love."

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: syncro]
    #24120753 -

syncro said:
Does it benefit me to judge a religion on its worst or middling representatives, or the best of them? Where I choose to weigh something is just a reflection of my state.


Tell that to the Christians.


Lol at the whole "my grams aerosol inhaler made me conservative" dude. Global warming is a liberal myth! And all leftists are pagans haunted by demons. Bullshit rhetoric, but sadly common.


--------------------
ShadeOfDeepPurple said: I guess you don't get shamanism yet by the very fact that you describe a psychedelic as Mexican.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: syncro]
    #24120795 -

syncro said:
Does it benefit me to judge a religion on its worst or middling representatives, or the best of them? Where I choose to weigh something is just a reflection of my state.


Tell that to the Christians.


Lol at the whole "my grams aerosol inhaler made me conservative" dude. Yes, all leftists are pagans haunted by demons.


--------------------
ShadeOfDeepPurple said: I guess you don't get shamanism yet by the very fact that you describe a psychedelic as Mexican.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: Bozko]
    #24120864 -

Bozko said:
syncro said:
Does it benefit me to judge a religion on its worst or middling representatives, or the best of them? Where I choose to weigh something is just a reflection of my state.


Tell that to the Christians.


Lol at the whole "my grams aerosol inhaler made me conservative" dude. Global warming is a liberal myth! And all leftists are pagans haunted by demons. Bullshit rhetoric, but sadly common.


I think you missed and illustrated my point. There are Christians who are pure and nonjudgmental, aware of mystical truth beyond religious divisions. Do we weigh by the more evolved, or less? We judge from where we are.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: syncro]
    #24120887 -

syncro said:
Bozko said:
syncro said:
Does it benefit me to judge a religion on its worst or middling representatives, or the best of them? Where I choose to weigh something is just a reflection of my state.


Tell that to the Christians.


Lol at the whole "my grams aerosol inhaler made me conservative" dude. Global warming is a liberal myth! And all leftists are pagans haunted by demons. Bullshit rhetoric, but sadly common.


I think you missed and illustrated my point. There are Christians who are pure and nonjudgmental, aware of mystical truth beyond religious divisions. Do we weigh by the more evolved, or less? We judge from where we are.


I did not miss your point.


Some of the people here arguing for Christianity openly deride other Religions with no filtering or second thought. These same people claim the left is "pagan"as an insult. They give no tolerance, they get no tolerance. This isn't some thought experiment, my life would be better without organized religion.


--------------------
ShadeOfDeepPurple said: I guess you don't get shamanism yet by the very fact that you describe a psychedelic as Mexican.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: syncro]
    #24120896 -

syncro said:
Bozko said:
syncro said:
Does it benefit me to judge a religion on its worst or middling representatives, or the best of them? Where I choose to weigh something is just a reflection of my state.


Tell that to the Christians.


Lol at the whole "my grams aerosol inhaler made me conservative" dude. Global warming is a liberal myth! And all leftists are pagans haunted by demons. Bullshit rhetoric, but sadly common.


I think you missed and illustrated my point. There are Christians who are pure and nonjudgmental, aware of mystical truth beyond religious divisions. Do we weigh by the more evolved, or less? We judge from where we are.


I did not miss your point.


Some of the people here arguing for Christianity openly deride other Religions with no filtering second thought. These same people claim the left is "pagan"as an insult. They give no tolerance, they get no tolerance. This isn't some thought experiment, my life would be better without organized religion.


--------------------
ShadeOfDeepPurple said: I guess you don't get shamanism yet by the very fact that you describe a psychedelic as Mexican.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: Bozko]
    #24121155 -

Bozko said:
I did not miss your point.


Some of the people here arguing for Christianity openly deride other Religions with no filtering second thought. These same people claim the left is "pagan"as an insult. They give no tolerance, they get no tolerance. This isn't some thought experiment, my life would be better without organized religion.


indeed.

Christianity goes hand in hand with right-wing political values (at it's core), and people will literally call a "filthy leftist" Pagan, of all things, "Pagan"...as an insult.

:lol: because the two notions (political ideology and religious ideology) are intrinsically tied together...but mention Nazis though, and that's just WRONG, of course...because that propagates notions antithetical to political parties.

LRG said:
You seem to enjoy the word logic. What we know and the thirst for knowledge are manifestations of the ego and even our True Selves, imo.


only towards those who use their words and ideology as a cudgel and crutch.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: Bozko]
    #24121207 -

Bozko said:
Some of the people here arguing for Christianity openly deride other Religions with no filtering second thought. These same people claim the left is "pagan"as an insult. They give no tolerance, they get no tolerance. This isn't some thought experiment, my life would be better without organized religion.


Your life may be, but not everyone's life would be.

That's where the line is drawn for me. It simply gives me a set of ideas to adhere to. It works very well for me. I get tons of so called Christian folk telling me I need more "Jesus" in my life.

Does anyone's faith make them better? No. Does mine? No, but it sure does make it easier to be a nice person and avoid negative influences in my life.

There are too many anti-Christian people in this world, especially the US, generalizing everyone who believes in Jesus. They may set aside the few, like me, that encourage a broader view of the world around us, but for the most part they're very toxic to Christian people. It feeds into the Christian mindset that you're "of the Devil" and need help. It's a vicious circle I avoid in real life. I don't argue with Bible skeptics and I don't argue with believers, Priests, or Pastors. All it ever brings is a ton of negativity.


--------------------
"I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay… small acts of kindness and love.” - Gandalf The Grey.

"It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle

"I like to think of Jesus like with giant eagle's wings, and singin' lead vocals for Lynyrd Skynyrd with like an angel band and I'm in the front row and I'm HAMMERED DRUNK!" - Cal Naughton Jr. AKA The Magic Man. Abracadabra homes!

"Each tear is a drop of poison released." - Anonymous

"Could it be you're afraid of what your friends might say if they knew you believe in God above? They should realize before they criticize that God is the only way to Love."

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: LRG]
    #24121215 -

Christians literally would never have people give them anti-christian sentiment, if they weren't already considering other beliefs or non-Christians as toxic themselves.

why do you think there are people who are anti-christian?

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24121220 -

akira_akuma said:
only towards those who use their words and ideology as a cudgel and crutch.


So you've never once agreed with anything in Bible? I find that hard to believe. "Thou shall not kill." Pretty simple one we can all agree on... logically. Logic and faith can meet in the middle and agree on things.


--------------------
"I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay… small acts of kindness and love.” - Gandalf The Grey.

"It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle

"I like to think of Jesus like with giant eagle's wings, and singin' lead vocals for Lynyrd Skynyrd with like an angel band and I'm in the front row and I'm HAMMERED DRUNK!" - Cal Naughton Jr. AKA The Magic Man. Abracadabra homes!

"Each tear is a drop of poison released." - Anonymous

"Could it be you're afraid of what your friends might say if they knew you believe in God above? They should realize before they criticize that God is the only way to Love."

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: LRG]
    #24121225 -

LRG said:
akira_akuma said:
only towards those who use their words and ideology as a cudgel and crutch.


So you've never once agreed with anything in Bible? I find that hard to believe. "Thou shall not kill." Pretty simple one we can all agree on... logically. Logic and faith can meet in the middle and agree on things.


i never said that. i've read the Bible and Jesus basically never really said anything that isn't easily supported (at least for the time he and his apostles were extant in history)

what i meant was...Christians who use their ideology as a crutch or cudgel, in arguments, whom slander other ideologies, whom use words to play games, those people i'll use word play to get them to admit their logic is faulty.

otherwise, i don't care what logic is faulty. i like having fun, more than i like upending religious arrogance.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24121230 -

akira_akuma said:
Christians literally would never have people give them anti-christian sentiment, if they weren't already considering other beliefs or non-Christians as toxic themselves.

why do you think there are people who are anti-christian?


A number of reasons. Some are justified and others are just your normal run of the mill bigotry. You and I both already know them. Those are the Christians I don't like. I'll say it one hundred times and thousand times more after that: "It is an absolute insult to Jesus to call yourself a Christian."


--------------------
"I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay… small acts of kindness and love.” - Gandalf The Grey.

"It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle

"I like to think of Jesus like with giant eagle's wings, and singin' lead vocals for Lynyrd Skynyrd with like an angel band and I'm in the front row and I'm HAMMERED DRUNK!" - Cal Naughton Jr. AKA The Magic Man. Abracadabra homes!

"Each tear is a drop of poison released." - Anonymous

"Could it be you're afraid of what your friends might say if they knew you believe in God above? They should realize before they criticize that God is the only way to Love."

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: LRG]
    #24121234 -

well, if they keep to their whims, i don't even care...just as long as they aren't trying to stop other people from pertaining to their own harmless whims, themselves.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24121240 -

akira_akuma said:
LRG said:
akira_akuma said:
only towards those who use their words and ideology as a cudgel and crutch.


So you've never once agreed with anything in Bible? I find that hard to believe. "Thou shall not kill." Pretty simple one we can all agree on... logically. Logic and faith can meet in the middle and agree on things.


i never said that. i've read the Bible and Jesus basically never really said anything that isn't easily supported (at least for the time he and his apostles were extant in history)

what i meant was...Christians who use their ideology as a crutch or cudgel, in arguments, whom slander other ideologies, whom use words to play games, those people i'll use word play to get them to admit their logic is faulty.

otherwise, i don't care what logic is faulty. i like having fun, more than i like upending religious arrogance.


They're hypocrites. Even when tempted by Satan all Jesus said was "The Lord rebukes thee." As did the Archangel Michael. Their logic isn't faulty. Their faith is. Hit them with that one.


--------------------
"I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay… small acts of kindness and love.” - Gandalf The Grey.

"It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle

"I like to think of Jesus like with giant eagle's wings, and singin' lead vocals for Lynyrd Skynyrd with like an angel band and I'm in the front row and I'm HAMMERED DRUNK!" - Cal Naughton Jr. AKA The Magic Man. Abracadabra homes!

"Each tear is a drop of poison released." - Anonymous

"Could it be you're afraid of what your friends might say if they knew you believe in God above? They should realize before they criticize that God is the only way to Love."

Edited by LRG (02/26/17 12:33 PM)

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: LRG]
    #24121249 -

you have to use logic to expose them, so others do not follow in their footsteps; because you cannot convince a Christian their faith is shaky or faulty.

it simply doesn't work. they either need a personal awakening, or they just need to be pointed to as an example.

this is also their tactic...point to something as an example that helps "prove the rationale for their faith", and get those whom are unsure of themselves to be swayed. it's common propaganda, and to fight propaganda you need to fight it with more propaganda. that's why propaganda is so insidious.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24121260 -

Ignore them. They'll get what is coming to them. Just walk away. Only your ego is telling you, you need to convince these people how wrong they are and make example of them.


--------------------
"I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay… small acts of kindness and love.” - Gandalf The Grey.

"It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle

"I like to think of Jesus like with giant eagle's wings, and singin' lead vocals for Lynyrd Skynyrd with like an angel band and I'm in the front row and I'm HAMMERED DRUNK!" - Cal Naughton Jr. AKA The Magic Man. Abracadabra homes!

"Each tear is a drop of poison released." - Anonymous

"Could it be you're afraid of what your friends might say if they knew you believe in God above? They should realize before they criticize that God is the only way to Love."

Edited by LRG (02/26/17 12:41 PM)

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma] * 2
    #24121265 -

I tend to think any religion is rather misguided. It relies on the spoon-feeding of a priest class to those who believe in their authority, they present themselves as the holders of the supreme truth, dispensing their view and never giving the inkling that the mystical experience can only be lived and not learned from someone.

All these texts and stories point to something significant but it's been ridden to death by a bunch of people who want to inflate their ego, giving the impression that they have something you don't have. Needless to say most disciplines have this problem, even our glorious science. Science too has it's own particular sets of dogma that are related to this same phenomena and even if we don't like to admit it we are humans, living a subjective existence.

Objectivity as we call it tries to remove ourselves from the equation, tries to set ourselves apart from circumstance, when the truth is that we simply can't. We are the observers, we come to the conclusions and the revelations. We build the instruments and we measure, we put in the work and the effort trying to comprehend our existence.

Materialist reductionism has also done quite a number on our species, even though the products of it have been astonishing and extraordinary.
Which is to say, many people don't have a basis in reality as you call it.
Culture does this, religion does this, science does this, you name a discipline and if you look through the right set of eyes you can see the dogma, the in-group out-group mentality, the full immersion of the ego that permeates, in the very least, parts of these subjects.

This is not because the disciplines are flawed but because we as physical and mental constructs are out of touch and out of balance. Look at our collective psyche, this is what is at fault. Pointing to a text or a specific set of people doesn't get to the root of the problem. These are just symptoms.
Look at the problem holistically and one might begin to grasp what is happening.

But yeah jeepers, I think that's a long enough rant for one day xD

Have a groovy day/night people!


--------------------

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: LRG]
    #24121270 -

LRG said:
Ignore them. They'll get what is coming to them. Just walk away. Only your ego is telling you, you need to convince these people how wrong they are and make example of them.


actually, in the case of this thread, it's politics that is making my ego want to convince these people. :shrug: because there are Christians who are making their religious ideology a political endeavor, in America.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: BigFudge] * 1
    #24121276 -

BigFudge said:
I tend to think any religion is rather misguided. It relies on the spoon-feeding of a priest class to those who believe in their authority, they present themselves as the holders of the supreme truth, dispensing their view and never giving the inkling that the mystical experience can only be lived and not learned from someone.

All these texts and stories point to something significant but it's been ridden to death by a bunch of people who want to inflate their ego, giving the impression that they have something you don't have. Needless to say most disciplines have this problem, even our glorious science. Science too has it's own particular sets of dogma that are related to this same phenomena and even if we don't like to admit it we are humans, living a subjective existence.

Objectivity as we call it tries to remove ourselves from the equation, tries to set ourselves apart from circumstance, when the truth is that we simply can't. We are the observers, we come to the conclusions and the revelations. We build the instruments and we measure, we put in the work and the effort trying to comprehend our existence.

Materialist reductionism has also done quite a number on our species, even though the products of it have been astonishing and extraordinary.
Which is to say, many people don't have a basis in reality as you call it.
Culture does this, religion does this, science does this, you name a discipline and if you look through the right set of eyes you can see the dogma, the in-group out-group mentality, the full immersion of the ego that permeates, in the very least, parts of these subjects.

This is not because the disciplines are flawed but because we as physical and mental constructs are out of touch and out of balance. Look at our collective psyche, this is what is at fault. Pointing to a text or a specific set of people doesn't get to the root of the problem. These are just symptoms.
Look at the problem holistically and one might begin to grasp what is happening.

But yeah jeepers, I think that's a long enough rant for one day xD

Have a groovy day/night people!


thanks for partaking in the thread; good post, by the way. i agree, basically, all people take all their ideologies too far, for their own sake.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #24121306 -




thanks for partaking in the thread; good post, by the way. i agree, basically, all people take all their ideologies too far, for their own sake.


Thanks! Yeah, ideologies... who needs em...?


--------------------

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: Asante]
    #24121400 -

Asante said:
MrBlueYoMind said:
akira_akuma said:
oh and reality:

you are God. you devour. or you don't.

you either act. or you don't.

the Tao is more accurate a philosophy, than Christianity. bar none.


If I am God, then so is Christ.



Christ even said "Ye are Gods, you are children of the Mosh High" and the NT is full of him indirectly saying to his apostles "no you bunch of dipsticks, dont put me on a pedestal, what I do you can do and I want you to learn to do what I can do" and they're all "noo you are the Lord, we are but worms" Jesus wants you to stop being a muggle, awaken the Divinity within and literally walk on water.




I think God wants us to realize the error of our ways more than anything, to stop being wicked, to learn to identify the devil, so as to not fall for temptation.


--------------------
https://discord.gg/NHHd5y2Uyv

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma] * 3
    #24124224 -

Your complaint has no basis in Christian theology. All I read is your own faulty assumptions about what God means to YOU, plus, some issue you have with multitudes of people who identify as being Christians. Tell you what: Actually read a decent modern book on Christian theology, say John McQuarrie's book Principles of Christian Theology and THEN be in a position to have separated the intellectual wheat from your emotional chaff about "Christians."  https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/002374510X/ref=sr_1_1_olp?ie=UTF8&qid=1488239326&sr=8-1&keywords=principles+of+christian+theology

"Thought-forms" belong to late 19th/early 20th century occult philosophy expounded by C.W. Leadbeater (in particular), and I have never seen the term used anywhere in Christian theological circles of which I have read broadly and deeply at times.

If you wanted to reconcile reason with faith (I do not think that you do, it's easier to be reductionistic and dismissive about a mode of apprehension of which you are deficient in, to wit, faith), then Rev. John Shelby Spong's book Liberating the Gospels is a sound treatment. It is a pre-eminently reasonable position which earned him numerous death-threats from well-meaning :rofl2: Christians, but which nevertheless healed a rift in my own psyche. I had 3 separate opportunities to interact with Rev. Spong and I thanked him for his inestimable service as a teacher.

Reason has a ceiling, a limitation. There is a transrational apprehension that transcends reason. Reason operates on sense data and cause-effect relationships but it does not function in non-linear higher dimensions of consciousness for which intuition is the more appropriate function. People who are one-sidedly attached to raciocination will fail to assimilate non-causal connections (i.e., synchronicity, simultaneity) and tend to dismiss such break-through events as mere chance occurrences, determined by probability. In domains of consciousness wherein form is absent, quantification is a non sequitur and reason qua reason does not apply. There is no longer a separate ego to which conditions can be compared or quantified, and yet such domains exist and transcend the level of mind that concocted your complaint in the first place.

IF the singular metaphysical proclamation of Christianity is that "God is love" (1 John 4:8), and IF God is defined as Eternal Being, THEN God = Love = Eternal Being (or Eternal Life). The logic of living one's temporal life as a loving being is derivative of that single metaphysical proposition. In effect, Eternal Life = the Life of God, and if love is understood to be both a verb as well as a noun (a state of being), then only by identifying with love does one identify with Eternal Life. Only love lives eternally, all else perishes. Therefore, the singular Christian value of loving others (as a verb) flows from the metaphysical proposition that defines God and God's activity, and which simultaneously describes a Way of Being (Christianity was originally called The Way for this reason). There is pure logic in living and acting lovingly IF one seeks to identify with/enter into the Life of God. The further anthropomorphisms regarding the Being of God (e.g., jealous, wrathful, angry, judgmental, king-like, etc.) belong to Christian mythology, and to human psychology. Human beings do not venerate that which is ontologically inferior to ourselves, so God is AT LEAST personal, certainly not impersonal, but in being transcendental is best defined as being transpersonal, psychologically speaking.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: MarkostheGnostic] * 1
    #24124485 -

:micdrop:


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps or give me Death caps.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #24124580 -

i never said reason was above all else. you just assumed that shit because you read not into what was being said, Markos.

the logic is that all theology is just words. did God give us those words?

you can presume they came from God; but i'll presume from the stance that we defined the words, to explain the God.

:shrug: your argument is specious.

when reason reaches it's apex, love raises it's zenith.

try not preaching next time before you have all the details.

PS: and who am i talking about in this thread but those "well-meaning christians".

so you'll agree that there are "well-meaning" christians but who essentially act not as christians...but then preach your nonsense to me as if i was talking about the God you defined theologically...the God that'd i'd wager is a better representation (MYSELF) over the "well-meaning" christians' God?

so where do we disagree...simply in my attitude?

well, i'll correct you...you don't know me, and you don't know shit about me.
all i said was the same thing you just postulated, in so many words.

i just didn't care how i came across.
The Blind Ass said:
:micdrop:


no.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #24124645 -

You're beyond redemption when it comes to communication. I'll do you and me the favor in the future of not attempting to communicate with you. All you're good for is base accusations.

I was being obviously sarcastic about well-meaning Christians. Over your head *whoosh* My writing was not "nonsense" nor was it "preaching.' The real problem lies (admittedly) with your attitude, which one day will drive you over the edge, but I think you already know this, whether 'I' know you or not.

If you do not care how you come across, you're just talking to yourself in the mirror. :lol:

This is actually agreeable: "when reason reaches it's apex, love raises it's zenith." Unfortunately, you fail in the extreme to communicate it. :shrug:

:bye:


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #24124674 -

i did communicate it. that was what I said. I SAID IT.

and if you were being sarcastic, that was pathetic. how am i supposed to tell that you're being sarcastic. nice attempt at trying to be "well-meaning". look a gift horse in the mouth, i suppose.

there are "well-meaning christians" (the ones whom Hate Gays, and think people should be set aside because they don't believe like they say you should), and then there are well-intentioned christians. there is a difference. (well-intentioned christians can pertain to their intention of being good, while well-meaning christians think they are doing the "right thing", by way of their preaching and the motivations behind their beliefs, ie, the motivation to rid the world of what they think is "evil".)

get lost, because you're just a preacher, that has no way to endow this discussion with your beliefs with any kind of perspicacity past your theological "research"...so disappear.

you're already bought and sold. run away now, weakling. no counter-argument...pathetic in your supposed "truth".

PS: i'm beyond redemption...says the human, the human being who wants to pretend like he has the answers. you have no answers; only your own promotions.

PPS:
Quote:
There is no longer a separate ego to which conditions can be compared or quantified, and yet such domains exist and transcend the level of mind that concocted your complaint in the first place.


a lie.^and a contradiction of terms.

Edited by akira_akuma (02/27/17 10:17 PM)

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24125165 -

See, your problem is that you haven't read enough books.

We all know that spiritual progress is best measured by how many books you have read.

Have you read as many books as me and Markos? No you have not.

Therefore, you simply cannot be an authority on spiritual matters.


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24125167 -

Can't we just be Christians? Do you really hate God that much?


--------------------
:thumbup: :thumbdown:

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: viktor] * 1
    #24125265 -

viktor said:
See, your problem is that you haven't read enough books.

We all know that spiritual progress is best measured by how many books you have read.

Have you read as many books as me and Markos? No you have not.

Therefore, you simply cannot be an authority on spiritual matters.


lol.
i lol'd.

i read lots of books. right now i'm reading Mason & Dixon, it's got pretty much everything from astrology, astronomy, geography, History (in terms of people and places), literary 16th century writing, a motif of entropy and the philosophy of time, spirituality, magic and occult, comedy, religion (all the sects of New England, and their Historical ties to one another), and the list goes on and on.

also Categorizing the Occult: Magical Traditions and Their Meaning, and the Corpus Hermeticum...i had these tracts laying around, finally decided to start on them, after reading The Chemical Art by Marsilius Ficinus, and elsewise, from the same editor...Sonic Occultism...started Dante's Inferno not too long ago (i got pulled away from it around canto 20-something, got reinvigorate my motivation to finish it up), got the Futhark on the way, and next up, Black Fez Manifesto by Hakim Bey....

i read quite a bit.
but still lol :wink: i see what you did there. (Markos loves his academia...you know, he's REAL smart, so i MUST listen to him. dude THEOLOGY.)

PeyoteZen said:
Can't we just be Christians? Do you really hate God that much?


i don't hate God. i don't even hate Christians. people i don't hate. their ideals, i don't necessarily hate them for having them...:shrug: but...their ideas, are sometimes crude and unfounded. and when they effect other people's lives, when other people are harming no one, or impeding on no one, i will make a stand.

you've called Pagans Satan worshippers before...so your pleading is really kind of a smoke-screen. when you call Pagan's Satan worshippers and you conflate the likes of Pizzagate elitism with Paganism, because of your unfounded ideas (or propaganda), i will take a stand.

Edited by akira_akuma (02/28/17 05:02 AM)

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