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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24116736 -

a lot of us believe in something. I think Christians choose to believe in God because its the closest they can get to "something to define what they are feeling"

So even though there may not be a God(in the Christian sense)..these Christians are feeling SOMETHING and that something is what they choose to call "God"


its not that hard to understand, akira


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.

It's just a shot away..

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: Asante]
    #24116747 -

Asante said:
Reductionism is even worse, go pick on them.



--------------------

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: Bill_Oreilly] * 1
    #24116752 -

Bill_Oreilly said:
Tantrika said:
Bill_Oreilly said:
Muslims are worse. Go pick on them...if you got the balls, of course


Islam is effectively an extension of Christianity,
which is effectively an extension of Judaism
picking on anything further up the chain picks on Islam as well

Islam basically does to Christianity,
what Christianity did to Judaism,
which is to take a big chunk of the core beliefs
then proclaim to have the most up-to-date version
of what God wants

criticizing the literal belief of God in one tradition
automatically criticizes the literal belief of YHWH or Allah in the other

All three comprise the Abrahamic religions



Christains did not do 911 though


True,
but the Holy Roman Empire and Poland
did 9/12
to stop Islam from spreading through Europe

Quote:
When at the end of the 17th century the Ottoman Empire had reached its greatest extent, the Turks under Grand Vizier Kara Mustafa Pasha tried to capture the imperial city of Vienna and thereby throw open the gateway to Central Europe. In 1683 he laid siege to the fortress with 140,000 troops, while there were only 11,000 men available for the city defense. In the following 60-days lasting siege the Turks built mines below the city walls, which they intended to bring down with explosive charges. These were on the verge of detonating, when on 11 September the Polish-German relief force arrived, with troops from the Holy Roman Empire (Austria, Bavaria, Franconia, Saxony, Swabia) and the Republic of Venice, under the leadership of Poland. The tide of battle was turned on 12 September, when the Polish King John III. Sobieski led his elite troops of the Winged Hussars (Husaria) down the Kahlenberg in the largest cavalry charge in history, battering the Ottoman elite of the Sipahi and Janissaries and entering the enemy camp.




:headbanger:

though historical events are, notably,
influential upon and influenced by
contemporary philosophical views
the reality is they trace through the same belief structures

Not passing judgement on the actions of adherents
or necessarily saying all believers worship equally
just recognizing the beliefs that they hold

"You shall have no other gods before Me. " -- Exodus 20:3
"la ilaha illa'llah" (There is no God but God) -- throughout the Quran

:fasted:

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #24116785 -

specialpeopleclub said:
Asante said:
Reductionism is even worse, go pick on them.



Christians can apparently feign niceness. it's just that

akira_akuma said:
Christians believe in thought-forms that are tied to literal non-existence. they believe a "God" runs everything in the universe, and from the foundation of their beliefs, they act.

their actions, logic, and propensities, are based around a literal non-being; from which one can only logically conclude that their actions, logic, and propensities (like the propensity to prayer, for example), come from nothingness.

and logic needs to be fielded to have any value.

so in the case of christianity, it's values are based on destroying logic into nothingness.



please keep on topic.

Bill_Oreilly said:
its not that hard to understand, akira


it's also not that hard to read the OP more thoroughly.

this thread isn't about justifying belief systems. it's about how christians base their logic and reasoning on ineffable nothingness.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: PatrickKn]
    #24116789 -

PatrickKn said:
akira_akuma said:
PS: Patrick, that's all nice and stuff...but people are dead set on their beliefs, and the majority of christians think that gnostic readings are heretical.


Is that not what's being discussed?


you're not de-railing the thread. :shrug:

what you read was simply my response.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24116892 -

The beautiful thing about Christianity is you could be a son or daughter of the most high and not even know it. Even on your death bed (ie: thief on the cross) the window for redemption is possible.

Oh, and Pope Francis is a fraud.


--------------------
:thumbup: :thumbdown:

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: Great Scott]
    #24116899 -

fair enough.

:shrug:

but let it be known: proponents of the shroomery likes the fact that christians believe in thought-forms that are tied to literal non-existence. and that they believe a "God" runs everything in the universe, and from the foundation of their beliefs, they act.

and that their actions, logic, and propensities, are based around a literal non-being; from which one can only logically conclude that their actions, logic, and propensities (like the propensity to prayer, for example), come from nothingness.

(and logic needs to be fielded to have any value.)

and that the fact is, in the case of christianity, it's values are based on destroying logic into nothingness.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24116905 -

Fair enough.

Quote:
Christians believe in thought-forms that are tied to literal non-existence.


On this point specifically, I'm curious what your thoughts or philosophies are on non-existence. I don't find non-existence to be a deal breaker as far as philosophical principals go. Language/music and the value of money are examples of thought-forms that manifest from non-existence after all. Through the space between our collective thoughts, actions happen. And I'm sure you have some ideas on the idea that mental constructs manifest themselves as reality.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: PatrickKn]
    #24116934 -

yes, manifest, at the very least, as mind-stuff, which in turn forms into material reality. material reality needs a firm basis in facts, which are couched in logic, that logic which needs a firm basis in reality, reality defined as things that actually exists.

Christians form their opinions, desires, and thoughts on non-existent things, such as the notion of God, which they then derive their nonsensical logic, which is based on said notions.

essentially, the notional motives of christians have an inherent vice, and that is dangerous.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24117005 -

By that, are you saying that their philosophy self-destructs because it has no foundation in reality? What are some examples so that I can fully understand what you're getting at more specifically if you don't mind me asking?

It could be argued that the teachings of the bible (and by extension most religious philosophies) have a foundation in reality, but that the interpretation of past events were misinformed. That in itself doesn't make it a nonsensical logic unless people go out of their way to deconstruct established logic despite knowing better. That's not necessarily a fault of the whole religion, but of certain adherents.

If we look at Christianity from a mythological view point, I still wouldn't say that it has no basis in reality. Myth isn't concerned with the meat of the story, but of the meaning after all. And it would be hard for me to argue that there is no meaning in Christianity, because there certainly is - even if it's lost on some of it's followers. The same is true with most religions, but I could extend that to say it's true with other philosophies as well. A self described agnostic or atheist might cite science as a better way to live by, but not understand the first thing about it or that using science as a counter-point to religion itself misses the point of both. 

I'm not trying to defend religious fundamentalism necessarily, but I think the wrongs of organized religion aren't because they are founded upon concepts that don't exist in material reality. That in and of itself doesn't make the bulk of it faulty logic by default.

Edited by PatrickKn (02/24/17 07:00 PM)

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: PatrickKn]
    #24117027 -

Our source of awareness is prior to picking and choosing.
To say Christians have no basis in reality is laughable.
Wash away that discriminating shadow :lol:


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps or give me Death caps.

Edited by The Blind Ass (02/24/17 07:07 PM)

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #24117095 -

Quote:
By that, are you saying that their philosophy self-destructs because it has no foundation in reality?


no, i'm saying that due to their beliefs, their reasoning is flawed and can do nothing but distort and destroy the very essence of logic and rationality, when it comes to the dogmatic areas of their religious thought.

if they resort to a non-christian logic to use in a philosophical premise, they can avoid this happenstance, and quite a bit of the christian doctrine, being that it is sustained in a worldly manner (ie, it is brought to light in the same manner as anything else, from the mind), there is no option but to express a mind that is couched in reality, and hence, logic. Christians are not impervious logic...in fact, they have to use logic, in order to rationalize their views, and impose them on the world- even on a personal level.

but when the christian dogma is highlighted, logic is eventually lost, because their reasoning is based on a notion that isn't actually real. ie, homosexuality is a sin; for one example, there is this instance; and in this instance there is no logical conclusion, because it follows from a premise that is not founded in reason, logic, sense, or rationality. :shrug:

so when you get to the basic dogma of the Christian religion, logic breaks down, and it goes either into infinite regress, or circular reasoning, in order to justify itself.

and religion is a form of control, similarly to any other ideology. when christians have the ability to control (by law, or by force) it is always going to lead to an instance where non-christians have to pay the price- and it is never logical, in these instances. it's certainly not in keeping with any constitutional premise, i might add.

Quote:
A self described agnostic or atheist might cite science as a better way to live by, but not understand the first thing about it or that using science as a counter-point to religion itself misses the point of both. 


any one of those belief systems also adhere to dogma (no matter what an atheist says...because an atheist will also go down the road of the illogical impossibility, ie, "i don't have a dogma" is simply part of their dogma. and the rest of their dogma is "i know God doesn't exist". no, they don't. they obviously don't. but i digress), dogma never affords logic at it's most basic bedrock premise, it can only add logic through inference. anyone can do that. people have argued for the freakin' "rationale" of pedophilia, for example (ever seen a priest try weasel out of Why said priest molested a child? there is always a reason...but the reason is never rational- obviously. the same thing happens with any kind of dogma...it's given logical inference, so as to give the appearance of validity...hence why dogmatic thought is so insidious. and drastically idiotic.).

Quote:
I'm not trying to defend religious fundamentalism necessarily, but I think the wrongs of organized religion aren't because they are founded upon concepts that don't exist in material reality. That in and of itself doesn't make the bulk of it faulty logic by default.


it's not so much the bulk of either the christian canon, or preeminent christian thinkers, or even ordinary people, whom are christian, using logic, where logic can be ascertained as rational.

it's the main contentions of it's dogma which fall prey to the inability to be rational.

and thus, it's dangerous if people believe their dogma so much so, that they can't accept when it's been proven wrong, so they fight to death with their opponents. if they can foresee an actual win. :shrug: otherwise, it's misgivings pervade through politics.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24117253 -

There were multiple historians that lived in the relative time and place "Jesus" was supposed to live in and they never wrote a word about anyone healing any damned lepers.


--------------------
Maiden, Mother, and Crone.

You are Me and I am You.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: SARAtonin]
    #24117327 -

people like to point to Josephus or Tacitus...

this is literally the best evidence of "Jesus".

"Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judæa..."

an off-hand account of a supposed figure.

a figure "from whom the name had its origin"...he declares that this person suffered, and then a "most mischievous superstition" was "checked for the moment", before it "broke out again".

ie, that people believed some whacky things about Jesus...either none of these people knew how to write at all, or they just decided not to bother with writing anything about Jesus; seeing as all of the accounts of Jesus are ascribed to scribes; even "the apostles' gospels" were made after the fact, i think 100 years, or thereabouts.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2014/12/18/did-historical-jesus-exist-the-traditional-evidence-doesnt-hold-up/?utm_term=.1f90de7dc7c8
There are no existing eyewitness or contemporary accounts of Jesus. All we have are later descriptions of Jesus’ life events by non-eyewitnesses, most of whom are obviously biased. Little can be gleaned from the few non-Biblical and non-Christian sources, with only Roman scholar Josephus and historian Tacitus having any reasonable claim to be writing about Jesus within 100 years of his life. And even those sparse accounts are shrouded in controversy, with disagreements over what parts have obviously been changed by Christian scribes (the manuscripts were preserved by Christians), the fact that both these authors were born after Jesus died (they would thus have probably received this information from Christians), and the oddity that centuries go by before Christian apologists start referencing them.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24117527 -

Guilt comes from within.  No one can make you feel guilty but you.  Shame comes from without.  They are separate yet similar emotions.

Regardless of what you believe regarding the existence of God - which you form your argument from the non-existence of and therefor derive your entire position, the reality of the world we live in is one in which the people in control will kill you for challenging their position of authority over you.  Christ stood against inane sacrifices including ritual child sacrifice of babies in the form of circumcision and suggested we face a battle against these principalities (aka royal bloodlines).  There is much truth there. 

Regardless of all of that, atheism has the lowest birth rates and will die out of existence.  You can think it is logical to believe no God exists, but others would think it is illogical to believe such a thing.  Appeal to authority aside, I've known physics professors who believe both in the big bang and God.  You are free to believe what you wish.

:peace:

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: MrBlueYoMind]
    #24117619 -

MrBlueYoMind said:
Guilt comes from within.  No one can make you feel guilty but you.  Shame comes from without.  They are separate yet similar emotions.

Regardless of what you believe regarding the existence of God - which you form your argument from the non-existence of and therefor derive your entire position, the reality of the world we live in is one in which the people in control will kill you for challenging their position of authority over you.  Christ stood against inane sacrifices including ritual child sacrifice of babies in the form of circumcision and suggested we face a battle against these principalities (aka royal bloodlines).  There is much truth there.


oh sure, mayhaps. maybe he was as real person, there just isn't a whole lot of honesty, and there is more wishful thinking, in Jesus/Biblical historicism...if Jesus WAS real, it's doubtful he preformed miracles, as someone would have surely written about it at the time of it's occurring, and not nearly a century later.

i'd believe the story of Jesus sans the miracles, if there was more evidence to support it.

there's nothing wrong with the lore. it's how the lore is understood that's problematic.

Quote:
Regardless of all of that, atheism has the lowest birth rates and will die out of existence.  You can think it is logical to believe no God exists, but others would think it is illogical to believe such a thing.  Appeal to authority aside, I've known physics professors who believe both in the big bang and God.  You are free to believe what you wish.

:peace:


i didn't say i think "no God" exists. i just don't believe in the Christian God. i believe in cosmic forces. :shrug: so don't assume things, please.

but that's besides the point: the point is that people trying to derive logical reasoning from a God of the Gaps, such as the christian God, amounts to trying to create a fantasy, in which one can justify the absurd belief that "God made everything perfect" - wrong. no he obviously didn't. problem of evil? stillbirth? genetic diseases?

not perfect.

"God hates fags".

WRONG. stupid, in fact. and i'd wager anyone who thinks that way would try their damnedest, and with as much logic that they could muster (little), to try and justify that believe, and then tell you it's only cause it's natural...then ignore the many species of animal that fuck male or females indiscriminately. :shrug: see this is what i'm talking about. don't get it twisted now.

SyzygisticSoul said:
Akira_Akma is a pile of shit rested on a dictionary!
Your beliefs don't matter otherwise


you really should tone down the flaming.

i know this topic can be hackle raising, but, if i'm gonna make a thread entailing the fact that Christians mostly argue from a place of ignorance, you might want to come with something a little more fruitful than that tomfoolery you just posted, you know...to prove me wrong, instead of giving evidence to the contrary.

PS: you should diss dictionaries...after all God (the Logos) is "the Word Made Flesh" afterall :wink: try using that headmeat before you post.

Edited by akira_akuma (02/24/17 11:48 PM)

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #24117622 -

akira_akuma said:
people like to point to Josephus or Tacitus...




Seems like most Christian apologists quote Josephus, but I didn't think he was considered a good source.


--------------------
©️

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: Lucis]
    #24117623 -

no, he wasn't. Tacitus is the best christian scholars have...and it's frankly not enough to prove he is what it says in the Bible...if he existed at all.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24117625 -

What is the point of all this akira? I am sincerely curious.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps or give me Death caps.

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Re: Christians actually have no basis in reality. [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #24117627 -

The Blind Ass said:
What is the point of all this akira? I am sincerely curious.



This.


--------------------
©️

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